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Questions from a visiting student

walsh245

Hello everybody.

I'm coming to Trinity from the U.S. for a year-long study abroad program, and I'm trying to get as good a feel for the college and the city of Dublin as I can from my desk chair in Minnesota. So here are a few questions:

What's student life like? I've read about the societies and whatnot, but how do most Trinity students spend their free time? Is the area around the college crawling with students, or is it just tourists?

I'm studying History and Political Science. What are the reputations of those programs? I'd like to take more history courses if possible, but at my home institution in America, I've already finished the degree requirements for my history degree, so I'll probably just take political science. Are there any good history classes out there that I could squeeze into an otherwise already full schedule? Something about WWI would be just super.

I'm a little worried about culture shock, but maybe in a different sense than most other international students. You see, I attend a 2nd tier public university in the Midwestern U.S., whereas the more and more I look at it, Trinity seems analogous to places like Dartmouth and Brown. I've always had a bit of a problem with those super-rich hyper-elites for whatever reason, so my question is - is TCD really as snobbish as some of its detractors make it out to be?

Finally, what's the international student population like? Is it mostly Americans and Brits, or is it more diverse? And for that matter, what is the opinion of the Irish students on their American counterparts?

Thanks!

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Karlusss

I wouldn't say that Trinity is necessarily analogous to somewhere very super-rich - there's an element of that maybe by tradition, but remember that fees in Ireland are currently paid for by the government, so in theory no-one is excluded for reasons of money. There's a good mix, and I wouldn't be worried about that at all.

As for international students, I've had classes with French, Portuguese and Canadian people, that I know of, and there's probably more, but it would be majority American and English I think.

Opinions on American students? Generally positive - I've met ones I really got along with, and I've met ones who I didn't get along with, as with everyone. There's something about being super-overtly Irish-American than can kind of irk me (and others), but hey, what can you do. Hard to explain that exactly.

What do Trinity students do? What do all students do? Drink.

Napoli

The international student population is made up of mainly French, Germans, Italians and Americans. The Brits don't really consider themselves "foreign" students here. Theres two possible reasons for this:

1) There's not a huge difference between Irish and British culture (similar drinking habits and we watch the same TV stations)
2) For a long time Trinity was essentially a British university in Dublin, closed off to Irish catholics.

Obviously as an American you don't have the language barrier, so I don't see a problem with you fitting in. Trinity isn't a snobbish college at all, but unfortunately you will come across a small minority of elitist assholes - especially in the Arts block where you'll have a lot of your lectures. Science is generally a lot more open-minded.

We have a relatively large international student population compared to other Irish colleges, so there'll be a lot of people in your situation. After a few weeks, you'll find that you have friends from all over Europe! The college is in the centre of the city so you'll be spoilt for choice for pubs/clubs to go to, though most foreign students tend to go to house parties due to lack of money, which often turn out to be better craic!

Tea_Bag

Karlusss wrote: »

What do Trinity students do? What do all students do? Drink.

i was waiting to hear that. would have been my first reply. and yes, we drink. and drink some more.

bruff

walsh245 wrote: »

Hello everybody.

I'm coming to Trinity from the U.S. for a year-long study abroad program, and I'm trying to get as good a feel for the college and the city of Dublin as I can from my desk chair in Minnesota. So here are a few questions:

What's student life like? I've read about the societies and whatnot, but how do most Trinity students spend their free time? Is the area around the college crawling with students, or is it just tourists?

I'm studying History and Political Science. What are the reputations of those programs? I'd like to take more history courses if possible, but at my home institution in America, I've already finished the degree requirements for my history degree, so I'll probably just take political science. Are there any good history classes out there that I could squeeze into an otherwise already full schedule? Something about WWI would be just super.

I'm a little worried about culture shock, but maybe in a different sense than most other international students. You see, I attend a 2nd tier public university in the Midwestern U.S., whereas the more and more I look at it, Trinity seems analogous to places like Dartmouth and Brown. I've always had a bit of a problem with those super-rich hyper-elites for whatever reason, so my question is - is TCD really as snobbish as some of its detractors make it out to be?

Finally, what's the international student population like? Is it mostly Americans and Brits, or is it more diverse? And for that matter, what is the opinion of the Irish students on their American counterparts?

Thanks!

Hi,

I came over for four years having done my High School in America. Although I'm Irish originally (moved to the US when I was 12), I still found the change a bit odd.

I think you'll find the biggest difference will be in the amount of attention paid to you by the administration. Although individually most of the tutors/lecturers/beaucrats are pleasant enough, you will find the systems in place very ponderous and unclear. If you have a problem you're best off just attacking it unmercilessly than rather leaving it in the hands of someone else - trust me, it's the only way to get things done. And be patient.

I haven't been to Brown or Dartmouth, but academics wise I wouldn't say Trinity would directly compare. You won't find the same involvement of professors - you'll do all the work by yourself, which could be difficult to get used to. I've found it quite difficult to do well, but pretty easy to not do badly. For instance, in my first year History course about 3/4s of the students scored between 55-65 (roughly out of 70) while only a few did much better or much worse. I'm almost certain no one failed. Almost 100% of your 'grade' will come from your exam results and essays - so don't expect lots of fluff work - you're kind of expected to do it without ask(or not do it at all, I suppose). I'm not sure the modules that will be offered to you but avoid Medieval Irish at all costs.

Trinity isn't really snobbish per say. It has its snobs, no doubt, but for the most part people are pretty relaxed - but its certainly not like an American hippy college like Oberlin or something. But coming from Minnesotta, I think you'll find the atmosphere pretty different. There's an air of pretension in the Arts Block (and around other parts of college) which can be a bit frustrating, but it's easily ignored if you have a good sense of self. Most of the students you'll want to befriend will laugh it off with ease. Though you might want to bring a scarf and blazer, just in case.

As mentioned, around Trinity is Dublin - so you get all the good and bad that comes with the city. Some really nice restaurants, cheap student deals, and a good few music/clothing shops which will keep you entertained. On the other hand in can get kinda touristy, and a bit dodgy on the northside if you wander off the wrong path. I find the people working in stores and the like very brisk - so that might suprise you . Don't expect many "how are you?" conversations with your waitress. It just doesn't happen that often compared to the US, where it's pretty frequent.

I found this article interesting:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/01/education/01scotland.html

Pretty much bulls eye.

Anyway, good luck.

EGaffney

walsh245 wrote: »

What's student life like? I've read about the societies and whatnot, but how do most Trinity students spend their free time? Is the area around the college crawling with students, or is it just tourists?

I'm studying History and Political Science. What are the reputations of those programs? I'd like to take more history courses if possible, but at my home institution in America, I've already finished the degree requirements for my history degree, so I'll probably just take political science. Are there any good history classes out there that I could squeeze into an otherwise already full schedule? Something about WWI would be just super.

I'm a little worried about culture shock, but maybe in a different sense than most other international students. You see, I attend a 2nd tier public university in the Midwestern U.S., whereas the more and more I look at it, Trinity seems analogous to places like Dartmouth and Brown. I've always had a bit of a problem with those super-rich hyper-elites for whatever reason, so my question is - is TCD really as snobbish as some of its detractors make it out to be?

Finally, what's the international student population like? Is it mostly Americans and Brits, or is it more diverse? And for that matter, what is the opinion of the Irish students on their American counterparts?

Thanks!

Most students drink away the flowers of their youths. Even society activity tends to revert to the provision of beverages in most cases. It's not hugely edifying, but it's not hugely different to any other part of the country either. Don't worry about the atmosphere, though. Trinity may be academically comparable to Dartmouth but it has a broad social mix. There is no way for that kind of moneyed elite atmosphere to take over a university in Ireland, since all the good universities are public. There is intellectual elitism in Trinity, but frankly it's justified. The broad social mix includes foreign and visiting students, more so than anywhere else in Ireland. Most come from the EU through the Union's academic transfer programme. English-speakers fit in quickly.

walsh245

It's actually ironic because I used to be a teetotaler, but then I was thinking of studying in Russia, so I had to master the alcoholic arts. That fell through for a variety of reasons (safety being a big one), so I'm coming to Dublin instead. I'm actually happy with the way that worked out - I get direct credit from Trinity, so it counts the same as classes at my home institution.

You won't find the same involvement of professors - you'll do all the work by yourself, which could be difficult to get used to.

I've heard this before, but I wonder how different it is from the big American universities. Minnesota, where I go, is huge - some 40 or 50 thousand undergraduates - and we don't get a whole lot of personal attention, either.

Disclaimer: I was hoping, though, to get involved with professors in some degree for networking reasons (I feel like a tool for saying this) - you know, making a big impression on a foreign institution's faculty, getting glowing letters of recommendation, and getting into that top postgrad program that you're gunning for. A fantasy, but a pleasant one.

There's an air of pretension in the Arts Block (and around other parts of college) which can be a bit frustrating, but it's easily ignored if you have a good sense of self. Most of the students you'll want to befriend will laugh it off with ease. Though you might want to bring a scarf and blazer, just in case.

Guess all those suits from the 70s I bought cheap from the Salvation Army will come in handy! Maybe if I'm feeling especially pompous I'll find something in tweed....

Science is generally a lot more open-minded.

That's ironic, because at the public colleges in America, it's often the other way around. The science programs are typically much more highly ranked, and at least at my school, it's often the engineers who walk around with an attitude. And the business students, but that's the same everywhere.

Thanks for your comments! They're much appreciated.

P.S. Kind of off topic, but does TCD, or any Irish school for that matter, have Model UN clubs? I didn't see any on the societies page?

Karlusss

That science being more open-minded isn't true in my humble arts-block opinion.

(cue this descending into an Arts Block vs. Hamilton thread)

I'd also say you'd want to make a really concerted effort to make a professor notice you for reference reasons. I do pretty well, but I doubt my professors have any idea of who I am whatsoever. So if that's what you're after, you're gonna have to visit them during office hours, ask questions after lectures and generally exist in a much more active way than most Trinity students do to lecturers.

EGaffney

Model UN is covered by the Law Society, but they don't organise internally. The Europa Society usually organises a model EU.

gearoidof

walsh245 wrote: »

That's ironic, because at the public colleges in America, it's often the other way around. The science programs are typically much more highly ranked, and at least at my school, it's often the engineers who walk around with an attitude. And the business students, but that's the same everywhere.

Trinity is odd like that. In Cork, engineers are top of the pile. In Trinity though, the entry requirements (CAO points) for arts courses are much higher than the science end courses. This is why arts is generally conceived as less open minded. Either way, the 2 aspects keep to their own corners, excepting societies and clubs

EGaffney

gearoidof wrote: »

Trinity is odd like that. In Cork, engineers are top of the pile. In Trinity though, the entry requirements (CAO points) for arts courses are much higher than the science end courses. This is why arts is generally conceived as less open minded. Either way, the 2 aspects keep to their own corners, excepting societies and clubs

What does high exam performance have to do with being open-minded or not?

I think there should be a rule on the board that if you're going to claim systematic differences between faculties in College, you should provide evidence.

ApeXaviour

I'd like to nip this in the bud. Let's stay on topic and away from any arts-science begrudgery please. This thread has started off rather well.

Thanks

gamma23

Hi walsh,

Well you certainly seem to have cracked open a small bag of worms here, im going to focus on the questions you raised here rather than responding to the irritable responses made by some others here.

There are loads of students whereever you look in trinity, arts block students see more of the tourists than anyone else as tourists tend to come in through front arch or nassau street gate (under arts block) and go to the campanile and book of kells, then out the way they didnt come in. Once you get past the Arts Block Libraries there are few tourists and loads of students.

HistPol is a great course! Which year do you think you would be joining may I ask? With regards to module choices you could be restricted in what history courses you can take by your home university if you have already done alot. And your choice of politics could be restricted by your lack of previous modules, and then of course there are timetable issues. Dont worry though it always works out and they deal with these issues with every incoming visting student. It may be worth thinking about it now as you may be asked to make a quick decision when you arrive.

All international students come with at least a little aprehension about a culture shock, there is support out there for those who do. (perhaps a different topic as your situation seems different)
As other posters have pointed out super-rich Trinity is not the vast majority of Trinity students (nearly all from the EU) have their fees paid by the irish government, and many couldn't afford the high fees they charge international students.

The international population is diverse in the sense that you can find students from all over the world but there are certain obvious peaks in numbers from places such as france and germany, britain because of how close it is, and a significant proportion from north america (the distinction between americain and canadian seems to blur!)

If you want to get in conversation with the proffesors for references etc. I suggest you make contact with the SU International Officer. if you have skype give "trinityiso" a buzz, or ask in house 6 when you arrive. That said I would suggest any international student do so but in this case the reason is different.

Ha clothing in the arts block, it could be a thread of its own. The headstrong dont mind if they stand out and some clearly go out of their way to provoke a reaction. Comments on whatever you wear are ineviatble at some point, just ignore them.

RE: Model UN club
Hopefully Europa will have a stand in freshers week, they seem quite illusive at the minute.

O one last thing...'whats trinity like?'
Arts and science like to get into slagging matches about nothing a lot but its generally confined to on going jokes and boards.ie

JumAPond

Walsh245,

As fellow Minnesotan who will be doing grad school at TCD starting in August...I can say welcome? I went to Hamline in St. Paul and did a summer abroad at the London School of Economics (annnnd Political Science), which is a big reason I'm back in Europe. It was definitely a different atmosphere/culture, but I can't speak enough to how good I felt the education I was getting was. Heads above what it was back here in the states. (although HU to LSE is hardly a fair comparison)

I met a few people during my time in London from Trinity (and some who had visited it) and got this impression, the size of TCD is slightly larger than the Univ. of St. Thomas (which has~11-12k). The campus in reality isn't all that much larger than their campus either, when combining the 'north' and 'south' campus they have, although I feel walking across the street hardly qualifies as being a 'different' campus. (but who ever said Tommies were smart) LSE taught me the 'feel' of the EU education system won't be much different than that of the U, one minute you're walking past someone on a presidents scholar, the next someone working 3 jobs to pay their way, the next someone who's parents committed to pay their way. As many have mentioned, theres a little bit of everyone as those of us non-EUs are some of the only ones really bearing the full brunt of course fees.

The only piece that I didn't like about LSE, but comes with a summer program, were people from Harvard and few others from "Prestige" schools around Europe. But they were few. Most of us went to class, drank, studied, drank, ate, and got involved in athletics. And then drank. (Me in particular as at that time I 2yrs ago I was only 19 and only allowed to drink on airplanes to Europe...and in Europe) However, London is not Dublin, so I can't speak fully on what the experience in Ireland will be, but with an open mind I found the transition in both the U.K. and Italy very easy.

As for 'connections' I can say this, L.S.E. helped land me both interviews with grad schools in the States, an internship, as well as a few invitations to some Economic conferences. That was without any letters from my profs. Its a great school and you have international exposure. I imagine, for you as an undergrad, TCD could/will do the same for you.

For what its worth, I believe the U is better than a 2nd Tier university. But, Ive never been.

walsh245

JumAPond wrote: »

Walsh245,

As fellow Minnesotan who will be doing grad school at TCD starting in August...I can say welcome? I went to Hamline in St. Paul and did a summer abroad at the London School of Economics (annnnd Political Science), which is a big reason I'm back in Europe. It was definitely a different atmosphere/culture, but I can't speak to how good I felt the education I was getting was. Heads above what it was back here in the states. (although HU to LSE is hardly a fair comparison)

I met a few people during my time in London and got this impression, the size of TCD is slightly larger than the Univ. of St. Thomas (which has~11-12k). The campus in reality isn't all that much larger than their campus either, when combining the 'north' and 'south' campus they have, although I feel walking across the street hardly qualifies as being a 'different' campus. (but who ever said Tommies were smart) LSE taught me the 'feel' of the EU education system won't be much different than that of the U, one minute you're walking past someone on a presidents scholar, the next someone working 3 jobs to pay their way, the next someone who's parents committed to pay their way. As many have mentioned, theres a little bit of everyone as those of us non-EUs are some of the only ones really bearing the full brunt of course fees.

The only piece that I didn't like about LSE, but comes with a summer program, were people from Harvard and few others from "Prestige" schools around Europe. But they were few. Most of us went to class, drank, studied, drank, ate, and got involved in athletics. And then drank. (Me in particular as at that time I 2yrs ago I was only 19 and only allowed to drink on airplanes to Europe...and in Europe) However, London is not Dublin, so I can't speak fully on what the experience in Ireland will be, but with an open mind I found the transition in both the U.K. and Italy very easy.

As for 'connections' I can say this, L.S.E. helped land me both interviews with grad schools in the States, an internship, as well as a few invitations to some Economic conferences. That was without any letters from my profs. Its a great school and you have international exposure. I imagine, for you as an undergrad, TCD could/will do the same for you.

For what its worth, I hardly believe the U is better than a 2nd Tier university. But, Ive never been.

Thanks for the good information. And by 2nd-tier, I actually just meant it wasn't ranked in the uber-elite. It, like Hamline, is a really good school (and in fact I've been considering Hamline for law school - I hear they've got a good program, but that's a topic for another day). I gather you're studying economics - any particular specialization?

JumAPond

I see, I see. And yes, the HU Law School I believe (don't quote) has one of the top, if not the top, dispute resolution programs in the US when it comes to litigation and arbitration. Everyone I've met out of it...has enjoyed it.

As for me, I dont know. I'm leaning towards developmental economics but the issues is that can encompass Industrial, Financial, Developmental, Labour, etc. By the new year I should have a better idea.

Have an idea of where you've been offered accommdation?

walsh245

Well, not exactly, but as far as I can tell, the program I'm on has at least two apartments that they use: Wyckham Place in Ballinteer and Sanford Lodge in Ranelagh, so probably one of those. Looking at the map, I hope I'm in Ranelagh - it's only a few clicks to campus from there and within walking distance.

Pet

Ballinteer's still doable by Luas, though, it would be about a 20 minute commute.

enda1

walsh245 wrote: »

Well, not exactly, but as far as I can tell, the program I'm on has at least two apartments that they use: Wyckham Place in Ballinteer and Sanford Lodge in Ranelagh, so probably one of those. Looking at the map, I hope I'm in Ranelagh - it's only a few clicks to campus from there and within walking distance.

and much much nicer for a lot of reasons.

You will not enjoy Dublin if you have to live out in Ballinteer to be honest, having to deal too much with Dublin Bus would drive the Divil to drink!

walsh245

enda1 wrote: »

and much much nicer for a lot of reasons.

You will not enjoy Dublin if you have to live out in Ballinteer to be honest, having to deal too much with Dublin Bus would drive the Divil to drink!

I don't mind taking the bus - it's a good way to get in the local... color. I don't like having to pay, though. What is a monthly bus pass? 50 euros? 100 euros? I'd be better off getting a junker bike or something for the same price.

What else is wrong with Ballinteer? I found it on Google Earth - close to the country. Might be kinda nice.

Liquorice

This has info on the monthly tickets. Wyckham Place seems pretty close to the luas, so the bus-luas combo ticket might suit you best. The luas runs about an hour later than the buses at night, and believe me, unless you're getting a bus that goes along the N11 (which is miles away from Ballinteer), the bus will be nowhere near as regular as the luas.

OR you could just not buy a bus ticket at all, and live in the city centre where you won't need one. Just sayin'.

JumAPond

What are the thoughts on Trinity Hall? More and more I'm tempted to just find a flat near city center or 2 especilly is Dartry is a lil' residential and the closest place is Ranelagh. I know I lose the ability to be in the same place as 1000 other freshers/sophs and post grads (which may be a good thing) but I cant imagine its to hard to meet everyone in the first place? Idk, I have until the 24th to reply....

AMH0505

I, too, will be a visiting student for the 2009-2010 academic year studying history and politics. That obviously means I'm not in a position to answer any of the questions in this thread, but if I may hijack it briefly to add some of my own (sorry if this counter to internet courtesies--I'm not all that fluent in internet--but it seems silly to start a new thread on a pretty much identical subject)... In terms of the history/political science departments, I was told in my offer letter that entrance into some of the courses is at the discretion of the department. What, for practical purposes, does this mean?

bruff

AMH0505 wrote: »

I, too, will be a visiting student for the 2009-2010 academic year studying history and politics. That obviously means I'm not in a position to answer any of the questions in this thread, but if I may hijack it briefly to add some of my own (sorry if this counter to internet courtesies--I'm not all that fluent in internet--but it seems silly to start a new thread on a pretty much identical subject)... In terms of the history/political science departments, I was told in my offer letter that entrance into some of the courses is at the discretion of the department. What, for practical purposes, does this mean?

Practical Purposes=

It basically means that if you want to do something they don't have to let you.

I really wouldn't worry about it. Trinity seems to be more accomadating to international students more so than its four years people, and both the History and Politics departments seem relatively pliable.

I would elect what modules you want to do as early as you can and you should be fine. People will be moving around. Good luck.

Fad

walsh245 wrote: »

What else is wrong with Ballinteer? I found it on Google Earth - close to the country. Might be kinda nice.

I lived on the border between Ballinteer and Rathfarnham for a good while, it can be a rough enough area (There has been a good bit of development recently, but there are still parts I wouldnt be paid to go near).

D.R cowboy

Can you chose to live with international students or is it random

gamma23

D.R cowboy wrote: »

Can you chose to live with international students or is it random

well no and no.
you cant choose unless you specify a roommate on application.
but it isnt random, they like to promote 'integration' this normally means that as an overseas student you will be in an apartment with at least one other overseas student and at least 2 irush students. though some person in the office last year liked to put non-EU students with EU students without any irish students so it could be anything, though your unlikely to get an apartment with 5 irish students.

walsh245

AMH0505 wrote: »

I, too, will be a visiting student for the 2009-2010 academic year studying history and politics. That obviously means I'm not in a position to answer any of the questions in this thread, but if I may hijack it briefly to add some of my own (sorry if this counter to internet courtesies--I'm not all that fluent in internet--but it seems silly to start a new thread on a pretty much identical subject)... In terms of the history/political science departments, I was told in my offer letter that entrance into some of the courses is at the discretion of the department. What, for practical purposes, does this mean?

AMH0505 where are you coming from?