Legalise abortion

choice.

that is what it comes down to - you have to trust people to make an informed choice

it will or will not be their child - not yours.
they have to leave with it and the joy or burden of the child - noy you.

abortion happens - forcing women to travel just makes it worse and is a terrible thing to advocate

you can be anti abortion and pro choice - that would be my stance.

I should trust people whether or not to kill another person or not?

Why can't we do this in real life?

Jakkass wrote: »

I should trust people whether or not to kill another person or not?

Why can't we do this in real life?

what?

you should.....

we can and should..... and mostly do

We trust people to choose whether or not to kill eachother without making it illegal?

No... we make it illegal.

we trust people not to kill each other - some do and that is why there is a punishment

what is your point?

this is about a choice or no choice - - it is not about pro life vs pro choice

as i am pro life but pro choice also

My point is. I don't believe that someone elses right to life should be chosen by the mother.

I don't believe that you can be pro-life, and then pro-choice over someone elses right to life, it doesn't make sense.

i believe women should be able to choose

they will always put thought into it

it is their body

the option of a choice is never bad

it is not as if abortion doesnt happen numerous times a year by irish women - by having it illegal in ireland you are solving nothing
you are making it hard on these women and achieving nothing

you are achieving a blissful ignorance and holding your moral heads high while they hold their heads low in shame and danger in foreign or street abortions

the choice effects the mother and the father and family alone
it is not up to you or anyone else to dictate that chocie - it is their bodies and their choice

SLUSK wrote: »

Did you ever read Freakonomics? In this book they make a very good case that the reduction in crime was due to legalisation of abortion. People with stable relationships in middle class or wealthier classes usually have planned pregnancies and these children are likelier to be well taken care of than the welfare mum who already has 2 kids by the age of 20 with 2 different dads. I'm not advocating eugenics people, just legalizing abortion. You know it is legal in civilized countries.

I know of the book. It does indeed persuasively describe abortion as the weapon of class warfare that it is.

SLUSK wrote: »

A child is a child. A fetus is a fetus. A woman owns her own body and should therefore be allowed to do what she wishes with the fetus in her body. Basic property rights. If you believe in the concept of self ownership that is.

Legalise all drugs so?

studiorat wrote: »

I'm saying abortion happens in this country. Whether it is legal or illegal seems somewhat moot. Considering there would seem to be no criminal penalty for it... Maybe hell and damnation is enough punishment?

Why would anyone ever go to "hell" for having an abortion?

Fugly wrote: »

I know I ramble but as someone who is directly affected by the legality of abortion I can't fathom why it isn't a choice.

Personally affected? Simply because you are a woman?

Fugly wrote: »

But if informed people want to abstain, great for them. However I don't want to die without ever having sex again. Sex is a healthy part of being a person in a healthy relationship. It is something to be enjoyed and cherished.

You may have guessed I don't plan on having children, ever.

Life is what happens when you're plans don't work out. Pregnancy is a consequence of sex. That has been dictated not by pro-life campaigners but by biology. It is indeed part of being human to overcome our biological limits using tools, but we are not entitled to do so by any and every dodgy means.

Fugly

No, not simply because I'm a woman. But I've been in the position of requiring an abortion. I used precautions, however these things will happen. And for the record I've already stated that before becoming sexually involved with a man I make it clear to him what I would choose if I do become pregnant. It's clearly a deal breaker regarding relationships for me.

"dodgy means" I'm sorry do you mean dodgy as I had to leave my country to have it preformed or because it was elective?

And just to clarify my position, I would like to be sterilized to prevent myself from being in this situation again, however due to my age I am unable to do so. I think abortions should be used as the last option, clearly prevention is better than the cure.

conchubhar1 wrote: »

i believe women should be able to choose

they will always put thought into it

it is their body

A foetus is not the womans body at all. Clicky here for why that is in my opinion.

conchubhar1 wrote: »

the option of a choice is never bad

If I was given the choice to let you live, or to kill you, would that choice never be bad?

conchubhar1 wrote: »

it is not as if abortion doesnt happen numerous times a year by irish women - by having it illegal in ireland you are solving nothing
you are making it hard on these women and achieving nothing

Just because something happens doesn't mean that it is wrong or that it is not killing. Whether or not it happens elsewhere is wholly irrelevant to me, the fact that it is a social injustice to the unborn is something that drives me to be opposed to abortion.

conchubhar1 wrote: »

you are achieving a blissful ignorance and holding your moral heads high while they hold their heads low in shame and danger in foreign or street abortions

There is nothing ignorant about my position not to allow what is essentially infanticide in the womb to be legalised in Ireland. As for street abortions it is possible that these can be prevented by other means if we get adoptive programmes into full swing (government assistance for those who are going to keep their child) or a tighter police regime on the matter. Another potential solution is to increase sex ed classes and include all options as possible from contraception to abstinence.

conchubhar1 wrote: »

the choice effects the mother and the father and family alone
it is not up to you or anyone else to dictate that chocie - it is their bodies and their choice

The choice kills the unborn. There is the unborn to be considered. That's why I think pro-choicers are denying human rights because they ignore the unborn.

For me there are two sets of rights, maybe even three.

1. The rights of the mother.
2. The rights of the unborn.
3. The rights of the father.

The last is debatable. However when the rights of the mother and the unborn conflict, a compromise has to be made. That compromise for me is adoption.

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

IMO, there's only one argument that needs saying, and that's, to paraphrase, get rosaries off ovaries.

How about "get human rights off ovaries"?

Fugly wrote: »

"dodgy means" I'm sorry do you mean dodgy as I had to leave my country to have it preformed or because it was elective?

I consider abortion to be a dodgy means of overcoming biology.

Fugly

So by that do I understand that you regard all medicine dodgy.? It "interferes with biology" or is it simply procedures that you deem elective.

ChocolateSauce

Fugly wrote: »

So by that do I understand that you regard all medicine dodgy.? It "interferes with biology" or is it simply procedures that you deem elective.

I imagine Hurin meant this particular example was dodgy (and indeed said only as much), not every method of interference.

turgon

Would it not be fair to say that both abortion and contraception have the same end, and thus promoting one and not the other may be slightly contradictory?

turgon wrote: »

Would it not be fair to say that both abortion and contraception have the same end, and thus promoting one and not the other may be slightly contradictory?

I don't see how this could be the case:

Contraception prevents a life from forming.
Abortion destroys an already existent life.

freedom of info

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

I dont agree with your reasoning, but i do think women should have the option. If you want it you should be able to have it, if you dont, then dont.

abortion topics are a no win situation, some people are blinkered to the effects on a mother after the procedure, most go batty and live regretting their decision, however abortion should be legalised in cases such as rape, incest or where the life of the mother or child would be detrimental, i refer to medical problems such as cancer or where the child would have no quality of life, some would argue the churches teaching on the situation, a bunch of celibate fools dictating on something that they know nothing about.

i am probably the only bloke on this forum that has been inside an abortion clinic, twice, i have no problem with it, my ex went off her head, also i have 2 kids under 17, i hate to think what it would have been like if i had four of them

freedom of info

Jakkass wrote: »

You consider me reasonable? That's news to me

I'm personally pro-life, and by pro-life I mean everyones life. If my (hypothetical) partner (I'm single currently) life was endangered by a pregnancy. I would consider it far far more important to save one life than lose two. It is basically the only situation I can think that abortion would ever be justified. I believe it is our responsibility to protect human life. This applies in all cases. The case of the mother right down to the case of those who are on death row. As such I agree with Ireland's current stance but I do not agree that abortion is a choice rather it is only something that should be considered by medical staff in emergencies.

your comment is fair and reasonable and i respect your opinion, but it really should not be anyones decision other than the mother of a potential abortion

freedom of info wrote: »

your comment is fair and reasonable and i respect your opinion, but it really should not be anyones decision other than the mother of a potential abortion

So you're wheeling this out as an unquestionable dogma with nothing to back it up?

allabouteve

freedom of info wrote: »

abortion topics are a no win situation, some people are blinkered to the effects on a mother after the procedure, most go batty and live regretting their decision,

Source? Link?

however abortion should be legalised in cases such as rape, incest or where the life of the mother or child would be detrimental, i refer to medical problems such as cancer or where the child would have no quality of life,

Who gets to decide that? And how do you legislate for it?

some would argue the churches teaching on the situation, a bunch of celibate fools dictating on something that they know nothing about.

I'm an atheist, but everyone is entitled to have and express an opinion.

i am probably the only bloke on this forum that has been inside an abortion clinic, twice, i have no problem with it, my ex went off her head, also i have 2 kids under 17, i hate to think what it would have been like if i had four of them

So should abortion be legalised for economic reasons as well as for ''being detrimental''?