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bit serious for after hours but!

[Deleted User]

did any one see the article about the reintroduction of college fees ....apparently the government is thinking of going for an Australian type student loan scheme.

now apparently arts types courses will be from 3 to 5 thousand a year engineering/medical courses a lot more expensive could cost up to 20 thousand a year ( they will be subsidized a bit ).

so if we take a conservative estimate of 5 thousand for rent and small amount of living expenses .....

what there proposing could mean graduating at 22 with a debt of 30 to 40 thousand.... gulp!

it wouldn't have to be paid back until you at a certain income level...but it in reality means your mortgaged your future for the possibility of a good career

your could argue that education is an economic investment so maybe its worth it.

or else the parents pay and event though i have a reasonably well paid job that is secure i know i couldn't finance my daughter to the tune of 40 thousand just to get her through college

what are you thought,

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Overheal

Let me say this: if the Irish system allowed a proper student loan scheme (borrow now, make payments after you graduate/reach X income level) I wouldnt have had to drop out for pure lack of funds. There is nothing more frustrating.

Bring the loan system I say.

Theta

bleg wrote: »

My college account says 25595 was the cost of my 4 year programme (Pharmacy). That's roughly 6400 per year. The registration fee has been increased to 1500 this year so if students had to pay the fees it would be 7000 per year. On top of this is the cost of living which are still way higher in Ireland than in the UK. There are also better prospects, better educational facilities, better universities and better job prospects. If the fees were to come in anybody with their head screwed on wouldn't go to an Irish university.

Catch 22, you cant make better facilities\courses\ uni's till you have the funding to do so which they dont now!

KevR

irlmarc wrote: »

But the system they are proposing is the same till you finish college so why would it be any different for you going to college or not?? You pay it back like a tax when you start earning 40k or some similar figure? 3rd level Irish institutions are criminally underfunded by international standards.

It's not really the same unless they lower income tax. I doubt there are any plans do that. It's likely that if full fees are introduced it will be on top of existing income tax levels.

Which would make them thieving scum! :mad:

bleg

irlmarc wrote: »

Catch 22, you cant make better facilities\courses\ uni's till you have the funding to do so which they dont now!

not really, UCC is in massive debt because of the facilities it has built over the last few years but they're still behind their UK counterparts.

bobbysands81

IvySlayer wrote: »

No.

Just no.

Why no?

[Deleted User]

irlmarc wrote: »

Catch 22, you cant make better facilities\courses\ uni's till you have the funding to do so which they dont now!

Ha! you really think that this is anything other than the government needing to free up more money to help the banks? The standards will remain exactly the same, just general income taxes won't be used to pay for it.

stovelid

What are the middle-class whining about now?

Just divert the monthly allowance you chisel off the state for every child into a high interest account for 17 years and use that to pay for those degrees in philosophy, theology and early-civilization.

[Deleted User]

i think it comes down to parents funding college v the student funding college via student loans..and thats a very important cultural point

personally i do think student should be independent of parents but on the other hand i don't think the average 18 year old can conceptualises the debt they could be getting into

in Australia they recon it has made people postpone buying a home and having children.

my eldest daughter dropped out of college after one year and then worked for eighteen moths..Then went to the UK to go to college..when she was working she spent a lot of money ...then when she was a student in the UK she was living on fresh air ..i was paying for her accommodation and helping her a bit....having to live on nothing did her the world of good its made her very sensible with money ....

still have my reservation about students loans to 18 year olds

stovelid

mariaalice wrote: »

still have my reservation about students loans to 18 year olds

Could be a good thing insofar as it dissuades young students from diving straight into college after school, and working or experiencing life for a while.

phasers

stovelid wrote: »

Could be a good thing insofar as it dissuades young students from diving straight into college after school, and working or experiencing life for a while.

Not exactly easy to do at the minute though is it?

[Deleted User]

i don't think anyone can sit and bitch about it.. it's there as an option to take the loan.

stovelid

phasers wrote: »

Not exactly easy to do at the minute though is it?

I've got a wall that needs painting here.

I can only offer a pittance, but you should be glad to be working/pulling yourself up by your bootstraps instead of squandering my hard-earned taxes.

SaturnV

bleg wrote: »

On top of this is the cost of living which are still way higher in Ireland than in the UK. There are also better prospects, better educational facilities, better universities and better job prospects. If the fees were to come in anybody with their head screwed on wouldn't go to an Irish university.

Leaving aside the points about job prospects and cost of living, saying the UK has better universities is a bit misleading. Yes, their best are better than our best, but their worst are much, much worse. I've experience working in both systems, and I'd say the Irish universities are better than 65 - 70% of those in the UK. We've done reasonable well here with scant resources.

bleg

i agree, 17, 18, 19 is too young, in fact ireland has one of the youngest, if not the youngest age of exit from second level education.

sunnyside

bleg wrote: »

i agree, 17, 18, 19 is too young, in fact ireland has one of the youngest, if not the youngest age of exit from second level education.

Which people who plan on going on to third level are ok with because they will be staying in education for a few more years. How long exactly do people on here expect the parents to provide?

TheZohanS

sunnyside wrote: »

How long exactly do people on here expect the parents to provide?

As long as it takes. If you decide to have children you should be able to provide for them.

The tax payer has enough to deal with.

bleg

my point is that it is not fair to compare ireland to other countries where the age of entering college is higher and people generally have a better idea of what they want to do and can therefore effectively judge whether getting out a loan to go to university is a viable option for them.

can a 17 year old even get out a loan legally?

Naikon

The increasing price to pay for your degree should be
inversely proportional to the usefulness of that said degree.

For example, Religious studies students should pay the absolute
maximum fee, whereas Medical students should pay the minimum.
Also, means testing should be used more effectively.

25000 a year for arts students would keep the numbers
down from around 400 students a year, to about 50

Wompa1

I'd just raise the fee's and introduce a loan system to try and help. I don't think people having a heavy debt after college is good but maybe having some debt wouldn't be a bad thing if it got people to try and actually use their degree or get a job in the country instead of emigrating or travelling the world (current economic climate may hinder that anyway though!)

stovelid

bleg wrote: »

My college account says 25595 was the cost of my 4 year programme (Pharmacy). That's roughly 6400 per year. The registration fee has been increased to 1500 this year so if students had to pay the fees it would be 7000 per year. On top of this is the cost of living which are still way higher in Ireland than in the UK. There are also better prospects, better educational facilities, better universities and better job prospects. If the fees were to come in anybody with their head screwed on wouldn't go to an Irish university.

This is an outrage, to be honest.

It's well documented that even dustbin men make more than pharmacists. How the hell would you manage to pay back 25k over 40-50+ years?

Enough to make you storm the winter palace. When will this country stop hitting the little man?

bleg

i'm just glad i've graduated.

deisedude

stovelid wrote: »

I've got a wall that needs painting here.

I can only offer a pittance, but you should be glad to be working/pulling yourself up by your bootstraps instead of squandering my hard-earned taxes.

What exactly is your argument here?

994

bleg wrote: »

i agree, 17, 18, 19 is too young, in fact ireland has one of the youngest, if not the youngest age of exit from second level education.

Modern lifestyles force adults to live as children for far too long. People should leave school at 15, enter the workforce at 18-19.

994

TheZohan wrote: »

As long as it takes. If you decide to have children you should be able to provide for them.

The tax payer has enough to deal with.

We need natalist (pro-birth) policies in Ireland, as the birth rate keeps dropping. Who'll pay taxes to pay for your pension and healthcare during your 20-30 years of retirement? Other people's children.

stovelid

deisedude wrote: »

What exactly is your argument here?

That people under 25 didn't invent recessions, despite their whining to the contrary, if I were to hazard a guess.

And that I have wall that needs painting.

phasers

stovelid wrote: »

And that I have wall that needs painting.

Would you require any kind of special mural painted? I have some ideas.

ayapatrick

Naikon wrote: »

For example, Religious studies students should pay the absolute
maximum fee, whereas Medical students should pay the minimum.
Also, means testing should be used more effectively.
D

while il agree about the people doing pointless courses, but id be thinking that youd find most of those that go on to study medicine are not stuck for a few euro. also medicine is going to be about twice as long(8ish years) as most other courses

stovelid

phasers wrote: »

Would you require any kind of special mural painted? I have some ideas.

This.

Gable-sized.

phasers

stovelid wrote: »

This.

Gable-sized.

Woah, I had the exact same idea! This is happening.

Although my wolves had blood around their mouths

TPD

I think there should be student loans, but if you graduate and get a job in the country for a year or two you dont have to pay back the loan. That way itll deter people from dropping out after a free ride for a year, or emigrating as soon as they recieve their education.