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"Pride"

LegacyUser

I am in no way trying to be incendiary, this is a genuine question. Why celebrate "pride"? What is there to celebrate about being gay? It is simply a sexuality, an aspect of a person, like their hair colour (heh, more complex socially of course). I do not see, nor do I want to see being gay as a defining thing in my life, why do others? Why make it almost political? Is it some form of perceived social rebellion, cultural cultivation, post-liberation celebration, simply an excuse to party, or an attempt to attract attention to gay rights (if so, how does a merry parade help?...there is no detectable serious tone). Ill accept any answer, and I have no problem with any of them, or pride itself, its just seems odd to me why people would show "pride" in the first place.

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Aard

kisaragi wrote: »

If you hate how flamboyant gays, leather bears and drag queens are "hijacking" your sexuality then go and march yourself.

I accept that point, but what if you don't like the idea of a parade in the first place? It's a Catch-22.

dimejinky99

If only we could follow kids example..they're so accepting of the whole gay thing..my little brother was using 'gay' in the new vernacular meaning something was ****e..he was 11..i said 'did da not talk to you yet? ye know i'm gay right?' and he goes 'your gay? why are ye gay?' and i said 'thats like asking me why are me eyes blue..i just am..' he goes 'your eyes are blue 'cos yer gay? that's ok' it was hilarious but their so much easier if exposed to it earlier..it's the older curtain twitching bible bashing culchies and dub grannies (who vote FF no doubt) whose mind set we have to change, and by the looks of things here, a few people here in our age group too..

Some people here smack of the whole 'i'm not racist but..' type...

We are here, we ARE queer(hate that word) but it seems you're still not used to it and until such time as you are we're gonna keep going at it until you genuinely accept us and believe we're entitled to the same quality of life rights and freedoms that everyone else in this state enjoys.

we're not about breaking up families, quite the opposite, we want the right to build our own. But mainly for me pride is about helping and encouraging those thousands upon thousands of people in Ireland who feel they cant be themselves and be free to enjoy who they really are and do it with...you guessed it, Pride.

Live free and be accepting of others and their differences to yourself is my view.

All different, all equal.

kisaragi

Aard wrote: »

I accept that point, but what if you don't like the idea of a parade in the first place? It's a Catch-22.

Then don't complain about not being represented?

Seriously though, if you (not you in particular) don't like the idea of a parade then think of it as going to protest against the inequality we face in Ireland. The march can be whatever you make it. A day out with your friends/family or a chance to show everyone your message that you don't want to be treated as less than your straight counter-part.

If you can't be bothered with the parade that's fair enough. But I really dont think most people aren't going to judge you based on what they've seen in a gay pride parade.

This is going to be slightly off-topic (and confusingly written) but it's actually really hard for me to get my head around the whole "I'm not proud of my sexuality, why do I need a parade" thing. It's not that being gay is an achievement of some sort, it's about being proud of who you've become, inclusive of your sexuality - not as something that defines you but as something which many people think of as wrong. One can't deny there's a whole gay culture there, sometimes very different from the straight one, sometimes not so different. Whether it be plays where two men fall in love, or gay nights with drag queens and go go dancers. You don't have to embrace it yourself, but some people do. It's a little bit hard to verbalize but basically even if you're not "defined" by your sexuality I think it definitely contributes to how you form as a person, by altering your experiences growing up etc etc. So in that way it's not something that makes you different in a superior/lesser kind of way from a straight person, but it can affect your interests, your personality, your experiences and so on. I don't think any of us can honestly say we'd be exactly the same person, just attracted to the opposite sex, if we were straight.

unreggd

dimejinky99 wrote: »

We are here, we ARE queer(hate that word) but it seems you're still not used to it and until such time as you are we're gonna keep going at it until you genuinely accept us and believe we're entitled to the same quality of life rights and freedoms that everyone else in this state enjoys.

we're not about breaking up families, quite the opposite, we want the right to build our own. But mainly for me pride is about helping and encouraging those thousands upon thousands of people in Ireland who feel they cant be themselves and be free to enjoy who they really are and do it with...you guessed it, Pride.

Live free and be accepting of others and their differences to yourself is my view.

All different, all equal.

I kinda agree with your post, but, you seem to be speaking for every LGB person, when you shouldn't

the parades are meant to represent everyone, when they dont

I think the main idea abt why its crap is that it doesnt really make sense

What does fancy dress have to do with making a political statement?

And the parade is meant to be everyone bein strong and proud, but they seem to cower away for the rest of the year

IMO, it won't do anything

And any good changes that come, certainly, imo, wont be any result of the parades

I think the "stand" is just bein takin advantage of t go on a mad one

Unless you really do dress as someone from the YMCA year-round :rolleyes:

pepsi1234

kisaragi wrote: »

Pride this year is mostly about campaigning against the civil partnership bill. Campaigning for equal rights.

It's also a celebration of your sexuality, who you are, and being yourself. Why is this necessary? Because so many people feel ashamed of their sexuality still. And many people think we should be ashamed of it too. I think the different aspects of gay culture are well represented. I'll be marching with a flag but other than that I'll just be a normal guy walking! I personally like the drag queens and anyone else who shows up in whatever costume. It's a party in a way.

If you hate how flamboyant gays, leather bears and drag queens are "hijacking" your sexuality then go and march yourself.

I wouldn't march myself because I don't feel the need to march. Why the need to create such a song and dance about one's sexuality?. It creates an 'us' versus 'them' atmosphere.

One of the things I learned from coming out was that most people didn't actually care about my sexuality. All the pride parade is doing is ramming our sexuality down the throats of people who probably care little about homosexuality. I believe equality by law will come when gays themselves stop believing that they are inherently different.

oisindoyle

pepsi1234 wrote: »

I wouldn't march myself because I don't feel the need to march. Why the need to create such a song and dance about one's sexuality?. It creates an 'us' versus 'them' atmosphere.

One of the things I learned from coming out was that most people didn't actually care about my sexuality. All the pride parade is doing is ramming our sexuality down the throats of people who probably care little about homosexuality. I believe equality by law will come when gays themselves stop believing that they are inherently different.

No one is asking you or forceing you to march and saying it creates an us and them situation ,is a silly thing to say
You also say equality by law will come about when gays themselves stop believeing that they are different ,,,,,How do you work that one out ???
All gay people want IS EQUALITY ,,,The Government wont give equality to gay and lesbian people.....So by the governent denying gays full and equal rights ,they are effectively saying that gays are different .......
CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT =???????????????????

Aard

oisindoyle wrote: »

No one is asking you or forceing you to march and saying it creates an us and them situation ,is a silly thing to say

It does create an us-and-them situation, i.e. those walking in the parade VS those not walking.

oisindoyle wrote: »

You also say equality by law will come about when gays themselves stop believeing that they are different ,,,,,How do you work that one out ???

Gay people believing that they're different leads to them protesting/parading which leads to stigmatisation which leads some people to believe the stories that all gay people are paedophiles and child-molesters.

If gay people just got on with their life and acted like their straight counterparts (holding hands, kissing, not being closeted) then society would accept them more rapidly than if all they do is put on a silly parade once a year.

oisindoyle wrote: »

All gay people want IS EQUALITY ,,,The Government wont give equality to gay and lesbian people.....So by the governent denying gays full and equal rights ,they are effectively saying that gays are different .......
CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT =???????????????????

Just because a government denies gays rights, doesn't mean that there's any truth to what they're implying regarding being different.

Do you not agree that by putting on a parade in the first place that gays themselves are differentiating themselves?

anoisaris

Aard wrote: »

It does create an us-and-them situation, i.e. those walking in the parade VS those not walking.

Gay people believing that they're different leads to them protesting/parading which leads to stigmatisation which leads some people to believe the stories that all gay people are paedophiles and child-molesters.

If gay people just got on with their life and acted like their straight counterparts (holding hands, kissing, not being closeted) then society would accept them more rapidly than if all they do is put on a silly parade once a year.

Just because a government denies gays rights, doesn't mean that there's any truth to what they're implying regarding being different.

Do you not agree that by putting on a parade in the first
place that gays themselves are differentiating themselves?

Surely a pride parade does the opposite, if people see groups of normal people-youth groups, sport teams, drama groups, charity groups, teacher lgbts, college and university lgbts, ordinary joe soaps and their friends all in one big parade maybe it breaks down the stigma associated with peoples assumptions and notions.

oisindoyle

Aard wrote: »

It does create an us-and-them situation, i.e. those walking in the parade VS those not walking.

Gay people believing that they're different leads to them protesting/parading which leads to stigmatisation which leads some people to believe the stories that all gay people are paedophiles and child-molesters.

If gay people just got on with their life and acted like their straight counterparts (holding hands, kissing, not being closeted) then society would accept them more rapidly than if all they do is put on a silly parade once a year.

Just because a government denies gays rights, doesn't mean that there's any truth to what they're implying regarding being different.

Do you not agree that by putting on a parade in the first place that gays themselves are differentiating themselves?

You're quite clearly a sh"t stirrer and a troll

unreggd

oisindoyle wrote: »

You're quite clearly a sh"t stirrer and a troll

I think you are

And you're very narrow-minded

AssaultedPeanut

oisindoyle wrote: »

You're quite clearly a sh"t stirrer and a troll

Yes, how dare he/she have a difference of opinion, the bast*rd
:rolleyes:

oisindoyle

unreggd wrote: »

I think you are

And you're very narrow-minded

Narrow minded me ?? LOL LOL Now that is funny ...Please enlighten me

ixoy

oisindoyle wrote: »

Narrow minded me ?? LOL LOL Now that is funny ...Please enlighten me

I don't think he's a stirrer at all - no need to be name calling now. I believe he's got valid points and I've often mused over the effectiveness of the parade myself.

Trance

-Post removed-

Trance

Various users wrote:

It is about being seen / need pride day to show that our society and political system allow it / show solidarity to those who are not as fortunate to enjoy freedom.

Who exactly is your Pride event communicating to? Homosexuals make up a small minority of the population yet they are the vast majority of Pride event attendees. That is the first amusing thing about Pride. The organisers aspire to create equality and respect for all homosexuals in society but at the same time, the whole festival is marketed towards gays and gays only. Panti may be able to stand on a podium in a nice shiny dress and bang out a fierce speech but 95% of her audience are not the people she wants to deliver that message to. Being a minority, we will never get what we want in society if we shun the majority in power.

The next amusing thing about it all is what the excluded straight community then see. The media and the internet shows them videos and images of men in drag, men in leather, men wearing nearly nothing bar body paint and men mincing around the street in fairy costumes while perhaps waving an inflatable dildo. As a result, Pride and homosexuality become synonymous with immaturity, fetishes and sexual perversion. The event becomes counter-productive.

As I said in my first post, while it might be a great laugh, Pride is only serving to further differentiate and ostracize gays. It's not countervailing the stereotype. It's not purging the stigma and it's not representative of all gay people.

Trance

Various Users wrote:

fear of abuse / know of a guy who was badly beaten up

The lone gay who gets his head kicked in on O'Connell Street just because he kissed a fella goodbye in my opinion, is ten times the hero that is any person safely attending pride in numbers.

Ronanc1

Id be very much of the same opinion as trance

Splatterly

I don't go to the Pride parades anymore because of the negative stereotypes and because of the intolerance in my own community; the gay community.

Take this years parade for example, as has been stated on here, it was all about campaigning against the Civil Partnership Legislation. Well what about those of us (the minority, I know) who welcome this Leglisation?

Gay people are happy to give out about the one-sided media attention etc; but how about the one-sided gay media reporting? Almost every Irish gay website I've gone on since Friday has been ultimately, and fundamentally negative about the Civil Partnership Legislation. Sometimes there is a nod to acknowledging that the "majority" are against it. But barely a whisper about the minority that welcome it.

12000 people marched through Dublin this year demanding "equality" and claiming to speak for all Irish gay people. That doesn't seem very equal to me. I wonder how welcoming the organisers & participants would have been to a float promoting and welcoming the Civil Partnership Legislation?

We have a long way to grow up

kisaragi

Trance wrote: »

Who exactly is your Pride event communicating to? Homosexuals make up a small minority of the population yet they are the vast majority of Pride event attendees. That is the first amusing thing about Pride. The organisers aspire to create equality and respect for all homosexuals in society but at the same time, the whole festival is marketed towards gays and gays only. Panti may be able to stand on a podium in a nice shiny dress and bang out a fierce speech but 95% of her audience are not the people she wants to deliver that message to. Being a minority, we will never get what we want in society if we shun the majority in power.

The next amusing thing about it all is what the excluded straight community then see. The media and the internet shows them videos and images of men in drag, men in leather, men wearing nearly nothing bar body paint and men mincing around the street in fairy costumes while perhaps waving an inflatable dildo. As a result, Pride and homosexuality become synonymous with immaturity, fetishes and sexual perversion. The event becomes counter-productive.

As I said in my first post, while it might be a great laugh, Pride is only serving to further differentiate and ostracize gays. It's not countervailing the stereotype. It's not purging the stigma and it's not representative of all gay people.

If you had gone to the parade I think you would have seen that the majority of the people were normally dressed, which is mostly what i saw when i watched the short segment RTE news did on it. There was maybe 20 drag queens and I saw only one guy in a mesh top, I don't really recall any other fetish gear. Also Panti's speech mostly served to try to get the gays to do something about the situation so I don't think that "95% of her audience are not the people she wants to deliver that message to".

Splatterly wrote: »

I don't go to the Pride parades anymore because of the negative stereotypes and because of the intolerance in my own community; the gay community.

Take this years parade for example, as has been stated on here, it was all about campaigning against the Civil Partnership Legislation. Well what about those of us (the minority, I know) who welcome this Leglisation?

Gay people are happy to give out about the one-sided media attention etc; but how about the one-sided gay media reporting? Almost every Irish gay website I've gone on since Friday has been ultimately, and fundamentally negative about the Civil Partnership Legislation. Sometimes there is a nod to acknowledging that the "majority" are against it. But barely a whisper about the minority that welcome it.

12000 people marched through Dublin this year demanding "equality" and claiming to speak for all Irish gay people. That doesn't seem very equal to me. I wonder how welcoming the organisers & participants would have been to a float promoting and welcoming the Civil Partnership Legislation?

We have a long way to grow up

Again, if you had gone to the parade one thing Panti re-iterated what that in the gay community both opinions exist - that the legislation is a good thing, a step in the right direction, or simply not enough and a slap in the face. She called for people to respect both opinions and remain united and moving towards the shared goal of civil marriage via whichever ally.

Sorry for the over-quotation of panti and i know she doesn't represent the whole gay community/media but I wasn't around for a lot longer after her speech. I was present for the girl (leader of LGBT noise?) ripping up the civil partnership bill though, which was met with huge cheers. The speeches were very rousing. There'll be a march on august 9th for those of you who wouldn't want to celebrate pride but might want to march against inequality.

Boston

Splatterly wrote: »

I don't go to the Pride parades anymore because of the negative stereotypes and because of the intolerance in my own community; the gay community.

Take this years parade for example, as has been stated on here, it was all about campaigning against the Civil Partnership Legislation. Well what about those of us (the minority, I know) who welcome this Leglisation?

Gay people are happy to give out about the one-sided media attention etc; but how about the one-sided gay media reporting? Almost every Irish gay website I've gone on since Friday has been ultimately, and fundamentally negative about the Civil Partnership Legislation. Sometimes there is a nod to acknowledging that the "majority" are against it. But barely a whisper about the minority that welcome it.

12000 people marched through Dublin this year demanding "equality" and claiming to speak for all Irish gay people. That doesn't seem very equal to me. I wonder how welcoming the organisers & participants would have been to a float promoting and welcoming the Civil Partnership Legislation?

We have a long way to grow up

Silent people can't really blame others when their views aren't taken into account. You pose the question "I wonder how welcoming the organisers & participants would have been to a float promoting and welcoming the Civil Partnership Legislation?" as if the answer is a forgone conclusion, but you judge the organisers without ever being in contact with them, that is highly unfair.

Trance wrote: »

Who exactly is your Pride event communicating to? Homosexuals make up a small minority of the population yet they are the vast majority of Pride event attendees. That is the first amusing thing about Pride. The organisers aspire to create equality and respect for all homosexuals in society but at the same time, the whole festival is marketed towards gays and gays only. Panti may be able to stand on a podium in a nice shiny dress and bang out a fierce speech but 95% of her audience are not the people she wants to deliver that message to. Being a minority, we will never get what we want in society if we shun the majority in power.

The next amusing thing about it all is what the excluded straight community then see. The media and the internet shows them videos and images of men in drag, men in leather, men wearing nearly nothing bar body paint and men mincing around the street in fairy costumes while perhaps waving an inflatable dildo. As a result, Pride and homosexuality become synonymous with immaturity, fetishes and sexual perversion. The event becomes counter-productive.

As I said in my first post, while it might be a great laugh, Pride is only serving to further differentiate and ostracize gays. It's not countervailing the stereotype. It's not purging the stigma and it's not representative of all gay people.

I don't think your comments or fair either. I've seen Chinese new year celebrated in Dublin, and they was nothing particularly Irish about it. The people looked different to me, they dressed differently and they acted differently. Would you criticise them in the same way you criticise the pride march for being different? In other countries there are diversity parades celebrating different cultures and walks of life. Can't one community celebrate aspects of their culture (drag queens ect) without people trying to accuse they of separatism?

As stated, anyone who went to the parade would have seen a broad spectrum of people.

Aard wrote: »

It does create an us-and-them situation, i.e. those walking in the parade VS those not walking.

Gay people believing that they're different leads to them protesting/parading which leads to stigmatisation which leads some people to believe the stories that all gay people are paedophiles and child-molesters.

If gay people just got on with their life and acted like their straight counterparts (holding hands, kissing, not being closeted) then society would accept them more rapidly than if all they do is put on a silly parade once a year.

Just because a government denies gays rights, doesn't mean that there's any truth to what they're implying regarding being different.

Do you not agree that by putting on a parade in the first place that gays themselves are differentiating themselves?

We are different though. We are a section of society which some people find objectionable. I'm recently back from paris where no one batted an eye lid about two guys holding hands, this is not the current reality that we live in though. I get your point, if we all lived as if the world was what we wished it was rather then what it truly is, then maybe the wish would become the reality.

oisindoyle wrote: »

You're quite clearly a sh"t stirrer and a troll

Aard has been contributing to this forum for many years at this stage, I and others enjoy reading his posts and value his contributions. I've no idea if he's; straight, gay, bi, male or female, but I do know I'd rather have his input on an issue then someone who cannot conduct himself with civility.

KeyLimePie

I see no point in Pride, having a bunch of gays walking down the road in feathers isn't gonna help us much $:\$

I think David Norris should host a tea morning instead.

Nevyn

Tbh I think that getting David Norris elected as Pres is a goal that should be worked for,
if it's possible to get such a diverse but apprently diversity intolerant "community" to agree on it.

Boston

Thaedydal wrote: »

Tbh I think that getting David Norris elected as Pres is a goal that should be worked for,
if it's possible to get such a diverse but apprently diversity intolerant "community" to agree on it.

I think Norris is a bit detached these days, he has the potential to do alot of damage.

Trance

For anyone who has not seen or read this thread yet...
(A thread which isn't posted in a gay persons forum and so has the opinions from a substantial number of straight people.)

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055605465

If you're not bothered to read it all well then I've picked out the important parts for you.

VARIOUS USERS wrote:

Maybe it's because nobody really cares anymore if you're gay and don't see the need to make a big deal about it. Don't see any annual hetrosexual pride marches, mostly because people wouldn't see any need to advertise their sexuality in the first place on a march. The country has moved on and the vast majority of people in the country don't care any more if you're gay or straight, or dabbling in-between both. Really, we don't care.

Hang on a minute, what exactly did they achieve? They walked the length of O'Connell Street while being gay. Not exactly newsworthy.

Personally, I find it phobic against heterosexuals. I feel ostracized when these big muscley men in pink feather boa's try to ram their message down my throat (no pun intended).

Why cant they just get on with things, instead of blocking up the main street of Dublin bringing traffic to a halt with this pointless exercise. I dont give a fk if you're gay or not, just dont block my path, infringing on MY civil liberties.

The clue is in the name. Otherwise it would be called the Gay Rights parade.

So I'm now homophobic for having no interest in whether someone is gay or straight?

Your gay, so what. You had a march and you want the hold world to stop and look. What makes gay people so special, I always thought they were the same as everyone else. Maybe Im missing something.

If anything I think it shows how much Ireland has progreseed in that last few years that RTE didnt regard it as a lead story.

In one way I agree with Blargggh, that it shows how much Ireland has moved on that a Pride parade isnt news worthy

think LGBT people shouldnt be parading around letting everyone know about being gay.

I think we should have a straight pride parade just to prove we are all equal???? Like seriously WTF? A lot of my friends are gay and a lot of them agree with me on this. The whole we want to be treated the same as everyone else and then go on acting completely the opposite by having a parade and such to show the world you are different than everybody else, and now start moaning because RTE (who don't show most things people are interested in) didn't give you enough air time?

Seriously get a life and go on with your life as NORMAL, because at the end of the day, THAT is what you are. But please stop moaning and bitching

I would go out on a limb and say the vast majority of the RTE viewing public wouldn't give a hoot about a few homosexual's out for a walk, I think the fact that such a thing is allowed go ahead is disgraceful nothing to do with being homophobic it's just a completely pointless act being pointless rightly ignored by RTE.

I find the concept of gay "pride" to be a little strange really. I mean, why be proud of something you have no control over? I'm not proud of being heterosexual, it's just part of who I am. It feels a little absurd.

I can't help but wonder what the reaction to a "straight pride" march down O Connell street would be? There would be uproar and everyone who took part would be branded a homophobic.

Yes we know people are gay but to be perfectly honest the rest of us couldn't give a fiddlers what you are or what you do.

To whinge that RTE didn't give the festival enough attention is pretty silly to be honest.

Your gay, so what. You had a parade, it was on the news. All the better. But they didnt make a big deal out of it, and your having a mickey fit over over it, Imagine they had made a big deal out of it. Thered be someone else here posting about how they parade was singled out and a big deal made out of it and how it only there coverage only further drives a wedge between the communties.

Apparently not caring about someones sexuality is the new homophobia. /sarcasm

I find the average gay person to be just as boring and uninteresting as the average straight person. Again, what seems to be general public apathy to the gay pride march would contradict your "WE EXIST AND WER'E NOT GOING AWAY!" outlook.

congratulations on being gay I hadn't realised something that you have absolute no control over was some sort of life achievement. Can I get a parade for having dark hair and blue eyes?

I wonder at what point does the concept of gay pride become as antiquated as the idea of straight pride? A few hundred years after gay people have just as much rights as everyone else perhaps? Or does a history of oppression give eternal entitlement for such marches?
- response - I suppose when people grow up, and stop looking for attention

I honestly think the parades are more or less only for the "We're here and we're queer" types who want to scream it from the rooftops.

Homosexuals wish to be treated the same as everyone else and not be discriminated against, yet they continue to define themselves by their sexuality and use it to differentiate themselves. I couldn't give a ****e wheter someone is hetro, homo or bi tbh, and I certainly don't see the need to have a parade about it.

keefg

OK, as a hetro male here I hope I don't get too much stick from you guys about how I view this parade/march (go easy on me

).

Firstly, is the pride really a good idea in Ireland?
It may be well received in other countries but there is still a huge % of the population in Ireland who have very religious views and are narrow minded when it comes to overt sexuality (be it gay or straight).

These same people also make up a massive % of the voting constituency.

I think the fight for equality could be handled much better and the parade only does the gay community harm in the eyes of a lot of politicians.

Why?

Because most of the massive voting power that I've already mentioned would be "Jaysus....would you look at that shower" when they see the leather & boas section of the marchers that always seem to make it into the media coverage.

Now, so many of these voters may not have a problem with homosexuality (what you do in private is your own business type of view) but don't want it paraded and shouted about outside their "sacred" GPO.

Do you really think that the political representatives of these voters want to risk alienating them if they are seen to support gay rights issues? I think not.

Speaking for myself, I have no problem what so ever with homosexuality and would welcome the legal equality that is sought, but what I don't like is overt "campness" (think Alan Carr). To me it is just so fake and the people who act like this reek of desperation to make sure everyone in the room knows they are gay which in my mind creates the us & them situation.
I don't care if you are gay or not, if I like you as a person then that'll do me.

Again, it's the leather & boas and "Screaming Queens" stereotype image that does the community no favours when it is fighting for such serious legislative changes.

Also, it's the name. I agree with other posters that the whole "Pride" thing is just ramming the groups sexuality down other peoples throats.

If the march is, as some of you have mentioned, more about equality & rights for the gay community then why not change the name to the "Gay Rights" march?

In my opinion that would be much more effective as a tool for equality than the perceived "We're Here, We're Queer, Get Used To It" message associated with the "Pride" name.

I think the legal equality status is long overdue & would like to see it implemented asap. Social equality unfortunately will probably be longer to achieve and the Pride march (in my humble opinion) does nothing to help.

Nevyn

Trance wrote: »

Who exactly is your Pride event communicating to? Homosexuals make up a small minority of the population yet they are the vast majority of Pride event attendees. That is the first amusing thing about Pride. The organisers aspire to create equality and respect for all homosexuals in society but at the same time, the whole festival is marketed towards gays and gays only.

The next amusing thing about it all is what the excluded straight community then see. The media and the internet shows them videos and images of men in drag, men in leather, men wearing nearly nothing bar body paint and men mincing around the street in fairy costumes while perhaps waving an inflatable dildo. As a result, Pride and homosexuality become synonymous with immaturity, fetishes and sexual perversion. The event becomes counter-productive.

Well this year there wasn't outreach done to the bdsm/fetish community.
Last year we were included and last year there was a fundraiser done in the run up to pride for pride by that community. There are people who are part of both "communities" and those that I know of who did attend the parade did so in vanilla/street clothes.

Trance wrote: »

As I said in my first post, while it might be a great laugh, Pride is only serving to further differentiate and ostracize gays. It's not countervailing the stereotype. It's not purging the stigma and it's not representative of all gay people.

I think there is a place/need for the pride parade and a place/need for serious lobbying, but do I think the pride parade is the place for serious lobbying, prolly not.

LookingFor

Trance wrote: »

For anyone who has not seen or read this thread yet...
(A thread which isn't posted in a gay persons forum and so has the opinions from a substantial number of straight people.)

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055605465

If you're not bothered to read it all well then I've picked out the important parts for you.

It's a logically sound post and point, but you could say the same for parades around nationality. e.g. St. Patrick's Day. There's nothing to be congratulated for by being Irish, yet we celebrate it every year and it's a huge media event etc. etc.

I would prefer myself if 'pride' was more civil rights orientated, and I think this year it seems there was a heavier slant on that which is a good thing. There are legitimately some things the gay community should be protesting. I would do that at the Dail, and leave out any overtly sexual elements.

LegacyUser

The legacy of New York's Stonewall riots in 1969 is Pride, and is mirrored in many cities around the world. Just like the Stonewall riots fought against homophobia and government persecution, Pride stands for the same thing and more. It is a celebration of diversity, of what has been won to date in the way of gay rights, remembering and honoring those who went who before us, being proud of ourselves and those who fought for what we can enjoy today (sometimes taken for granted now), fighting for social and legal equality, and asserting our rightful place in society. It is a multi-faceted cause fighting for a multi-faceted community, for a truly multi-faceted society.

Put away your Abrahamic conditioning. We are as diverse as nature intended. There is variety. Not simply one or the other. The community itself reflects this. And for those who identify as gay internally and criticise Pride goers, it appears to me they have some twisted logic to expect acceptance, or at least tolerance, from society for themselves when they cannot deliver this upon their peers who partake in the Pride Parade: demeaning them because some may be transgendered, dragged up for the day, or simply blowing whistles and waving banners. Shame on you! If you want change in the world then you BE that change in the world! The people who march and support this do it for themselves, their peers, and in turn their gay peers who begrudge them also. It is people like them from the past who have steered our society and culture to a place where you feel it is ok to be gay now, at least more ok than it had been before.

It is a lack of understanding that leads to the criticism or bewilderment from some straight people. The Pride event make us visible for at least one day of the year, showing those that we do not feel ashamed, that we are like they themslves; people's mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, friends, cousins, colleagues, and they are that to us whether they know it or not. That we are all the same, and just like them we want to freely enjoy the experience of love without persecution.

While there are gay people on so many shows on TV now it does not make it any easier to walk down the street hand in hand with your partner when you are subjected to public ridicule, humiliation, discrimination, physcial attacks. If my partner is comfortable to do so I will always hold hands with him in public, and sometimes kiss, but, I have myself been physically attacked a few times (though it hasn't stopped me). Yes, it is sad that more people do not feel comfortable enough to to this the other 364 days, but this is why. So, whether you're gay or straight, do not be so mean spirited to criticise those who choose to do it on the one day of the year they feel that are able to without fear. Straight folk be be very supportive, which is always welcome, but they will NEVER know what it is like to be persecuted, to hide themselves, live in denial, live in misery, live in fear. You will never be persecuted for showing affection to your partner in public. You didn't have to fight for the rights you enjoy and take for granted.

I myself have never been ashamed for who or what I am. I am ashamed however of a government that goes little in the way of tackling homphobia and hate crimes, a government that gives a hollow Relationship and Sexuality Education curriculum, that has created a teaching culture where teachers bully gay students thus encouraging other students to do the same, a government so arrogant to ignore some of it's voting electorate and treat them as second class citizens.

This is why Pride still has a purpose. And as the Grand Dame Panti aptly said, 'Get out of the way or we'll march through you!' There is alot to be proud of and much to fight for still.

I am proud for myself and the community every day of the year. I was even more Proud on Saturday.

Reflector

There are many elements to the pride parade, celebration, political, social awareness. But mainly it's a party. A time for gay people who most of the time feel very marginalised to gather en masse and walk through the city.

The parade has evolved over the years and personally I feel that it is more than just a "gay" parade but a celebration of diversity among everyone. To allow everyone to live there lives how they see fit and to not be judged for their differences. This country has seen all it's citizens live under a repressive organisation and should welcome this openeness and ongoing progression of personal freedoms. I see more and more straight people come out and enjoy the parade and I hope this continues to be an element. All the dressing up is a bit of fun and adds a bit of colour and some of it is very artistic and visually stunning. Sure it wouldn't be a parade if it was just jeans and t-shirts.

I do hope that there is some political marches organised as I personally am not happy with the civil unions bill although it does address some issues and some issues for long term co habiting couples.

ceret

It's like St. Patrick's Day in Ireland. Irish people are celebrating being Irish. But it's not hard to be Irish, since you were born that way. Also "Irishness" means a million different things to different people. Discrimination against Irish people is illegal, does celebrating St Patrick's Day mean you want to encourage some separation between Irish and non-Irish people? No. And neither does Pride.