HPAT

pathway33 wrote: »

Don't know. If it were me and I desparately wanted medicine I would do a 3 year honours degree in something where I could virtually guarantee myself a 2.1 so that I could have a shot at the postgrad GAMSAT. I would of course also do the HPAT every year until I got into med and accept med as soon as I got it even if I hadn't finished my degree.

Like 3 years is only 2 years 8 months academically, but 4 years just seems an eternity. I would just 'switch off' till the HPAT and hope the misery of doing a degree I didn't want passed as painlessly as possible. Of course with my plan if I don't get into med then all I have is a degree and no career. At least with your plan you would be a physiotherapist.

I like the sound of this advice pathway! med is all i want to do but with a max possible score of 713 i have 2 chances of gettin it, slim and none!!:p...was hopin to go down the sports road when i qualify...found a lovely health and performance 3year course in ucd which i mite actually enjoy which would also give me a good background for sports medicine!

just one thing! how risky exactly is graduate entry?? iv checked it up some and there are very few places up for grabs!! ie. 20 places in ucd. would this shortage not at least double the competition???:eek:...its tough enough as it is!!...any help really appreciated.....i was depending on med 100% and now i need a plan b within the next 6 days!! HELP!!!

lala00

poppy08 wrote: »

I

...so I'm praying i scraped 710 and might get a random place,

..

Im hoping 710 is enough too! I have 712 from last years leaving cert results and the hpat 552 & 160.

best of luck poppy!

JSK 252 wrote: »

:mad: STFU

Somebody who gets 570 points is a cheater? You are some muppet.

I SECOND THIS. WHAT A MUPPET!........

lala00 wrote: »

Don't forget if you do one course for a year and then switch to another ie physio to med you will have to pay 1 year worth of fees around 5000euro. if you switch in second year you will have to pay 10,000euro.

how about taking a year out to repeat the HPAT, if you get 600! maybe apply to the uk as well? if possible

Yeah suppose. I know I can do better in the hpat because an unfortunate incident happened during the exam and I wont go into details.:mad: But I want to do something with myself for the next year. I agree with Cantona56, really need a plan B too and fast!!! I dont want to be hanging around, and get a degree with no career, like what pathway33 said. If I did physio, yeah, I wud have a definite career waiting for me if I dont get into medicine. But at the same time I could be carrying out the requirements to get into med and hopefully do well in 2010 and get in. Yes it would be easier to do an 'easy' degree. Does anyone know of any other useful courses besides medicinal chemistry? I know one person who was planning on doing biological sciences for 4 yrs and then do med. But thats exactly the same as doing physio but 'easier'.

cantona56 wrote: »

how risky exactly is graduate entry?? iv checked it up some and there are very few places up for grabs!! ie. 20 places in ucd. would this shortage not at least double the competition???:eek:...

I'd say very risky. Like there are now hundreds more who would have not even considered medicine last year but now that they have got it into their heads there's going to be a glut of postgrads doing the GAMSAT in 3 years.

Keep doing the Hpat is all I can say

spurious

JSK 252 wrote: »

So you are saying somebody with 480 points is academically suitable to do medicine? A person not getting high points will find it extremely difficult to hack the course.

I'm not so sure about that.
It is the mad scramble for places that makes the points needed so high that only very high achievers get in. It's not an indication of how 'hard' the course is.

480 points is a WELL above average Leaving Cert. score and would in my mind indicate a person well able to tackle any university course, including medicine.

http://www.qualifax.ie/index.php?opt...pper&Itemid=16

Xtina!! wrote: »

Does anyone know of any other useful courses besides medicinal chemistry? [/font]

lala00

Xtina

Its a good thing that you can identify what went wrong this year, do you definately want to start a course in september?

options

Four year courses
biomed ucd
health and disease tcd
general science ucd and tcd dcu
physio UCD TCD RCSI UL
pharmacy TCD RCSI
Nursing
occupational therapy
social work

3 year courses
psychology ucd

would you think about applying to medicine in the uk?

lala00 wrote: »

Xtina

Its a good thing that you can identify what went wrong this year, do you definately want to start a course in september?...
...would you think about applying to medicine in the uk?

I never really considered the uk as I had never intended to go there. I dont know if I want to start a course in september. I defo got over 580 in the leaving so I see no point in repeating. I dont want to hang around for the next year waiting to do the hpat again so id do a course. If I decide to do a course i'd do physio but as someone said it costs thousands to move courses. Tanx for your help but I honestly havent a clue what to do. So many options!

Whats the procedure for applying to the uk? Its a bit late now I know.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055599370

Xtina!! wrote: »

Whats the procedure for applying to the uk? Its a bit late now I know.

pathway33 wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055599370

Tanx a million! At this stage now, im just either gonna go and apply for some course and then get into med. Or I can just wait until the offers come out nd if I dont get into med accept physio and keep applying for the hpat. Is that a gud plan?? But you never know I might get into med (doubtful), but there's still hope for us all. The hpat results were so unpredictable. We'll see what happens at the end of the day.

KnifeWRENCH

JW91 wrote: »

I think this HPAT is a great system. It rewards the more intellignet students and it shows the students that are capable of thinking outside the box.

I agree with that...

As far as I'm concerned learning off stuff in this manner is cheating. plain and simple.
So this HPAT has basiclly caught out the cheaters.
If you were intelligent enough to do the leaving cert properly (i.e. without learning off heaps of stuff by heart) then you would have been intelligent enough to deal with the HPAT

...but that is an absolute pile of rubbish.
How the hell is is cheating to learn stuff off by heart? That's the way the LEaving Cert works: it rewards students who worked hard. Unless you have a photographic memory, learning a load of stuff off by heart is bloody hard work and requires a lot of effort, which should then be rewarded.

How the hell do you expect someone to do well at Leaving Cert in Biology or History if they can't learn off by heart? :rolleyes:

JSK 252 wrote:

:mad: STFU
...
You are some muppet.

cantona56 wrote:

SECOND THIS. WHAT A MUPPET!........

Read the forum charter here. Personal abuse isn't tolerated here. Don't do it again.

Xtina!! wrote: »

Tanx a million! At this stage now, im just either gonna go and apply for some course and then get into med. Or I can just wait until the offers come out nd if I dont get into med accept physio and keep applying for the hpat. Is that a gud plan?? But you never know I might get into med (doubtful), but there's still hope for us all. The hpat results were so unpredictable. We'll see what happens at the end of the day.

If you are genuinely interested in physiotherapy as a career its a good plan. Other med hopefuls are doing those trinity courses that are medically chemically related and perhaps they feel they will have a better foundation in the chemistry of the body and be better doctors for that if they ever become doctors. Physio is a tough course I'd say. Will you definitely get a 2.1 yeah? Would you feel more confident in getting a 2.1 in a sciencey course?

New Plan:

1.med
2.med
3.med
4.med
5.med
6.vet med
7.dentistry
8.podiatry
9.medicinal chemistry
10.arts

Knife-WREEENCH wrote: »

I agree with that...

...but that is an absolute pile of rubbish.
How the hell is is cheating to learn stuff off by heart? That's the way the LEaving Cert works: it rewards students who worked hard. Unless you have a photographic memory, learning a load of stuff off by heart is bloody hard work and requires a lot of effort, which should then be rewarded.

How the hell do you expect someone to do well at Leaving Cert in Biology or History if they can't learn off by heart? :rolleyes:

Read the forum charter here. Personal abuse isn't tolerated here. Don't do it again.

ok knife wrench, will take that on board but in fairness, after working my ass off for too years learning stuff to do well in the LC( the same as probly everyone else) to get medicine, and then get told by some stranger that it was cheating, like wtf???:mad:...stupid 'POST'!!!

Oh I don't know. I'm so confused now I don't know what to do.Perhaps I would have more confidence doing a sciency course. I wouldn't mind doing physio but I had my heart set on medicine. I was thinking, I didn't do chemistry for my leaving (you can do th 6 year course without it) but I regretted it because I've actually thought of vet med. Maybe if I take a year out, do chemistry and sit the hpat again. I know I got the points for it this year. And if I don't get it again I could always defer a year nd start in september. What do years matter when it comes to medicine. I would still have a choice between vet med and physio. But yet I could do a science course. I'm sure you don't have this problem pathway33?

cantona56 wrote: »

.....i was depending on med 100% and now i need a plan b within the next 6 days!! HELP!!!

You seem to be in the same boat as I am (like many others). Have you decided what to do yet??

ThehPatroniser

Tuesday, September 16, 2008
Making sense of the changes in medicine
BRIAN MOONEY'S ADVICE CENTRE: A new era in medical education and training
Following reforms introduced by Mary Hanafin, those seeking an undergraduate place in one of the five medical faculties in Sept 2009 will have to meet the course entry requirements and achieve a minimum threshold score of 480 points in a single sitting of the Leaving Cert (or equivalent).

How many places will the new system offer?
There will continue to be an increase in medical places, at both undergraduate and post-graduate level over the next few years with an overall increase of 420 places by 2010/2011. Full details of all aspects of the new system are available at www.cao.ie
If I failed to secure entry in previous years, should I repeat my Leaving Cert in 2009?
If you have secured more than 480 points and have met all the entry requirements in one sitting, you do not have to repeat and can progress to taking the HPAT aptitude test in the autumn. However, be mindful that if you have secured less than 550 points, you would need to perform exceptionally well in your HPAT assessment to overtake students who have secured more that the 550 points. My advice is to repeat if you are below 550 points, but not if you have achieved this score as the maximum you can add is 1 point for every extra 5 you score above 550.
I am currently in the final year of a science degree. How can I apply for a post- graduate medical place?
About 300 applicants actively competed for the post graduate places on offer this year. These places were open to all graduates of any discipline, who have secures a minimum of a 2:1 honours, on a level-eight degree. There will be 240 post-graduate places available in 2010/2011, and it is a four year programme. Fees are €25,000 per year, but the Department of Education and Science is paying €12,000 of that on student's behalf.
What changes will the new medical entry system bring about?
It will eliminate the four-to-one ratio of females over males. The previous system led to success for those securing between 570-600 CAO points, eighty percent of whom were female. The discounted nature of the points scored between 550 and 600, in the new application rules will eliminate that female advantage. The development of 240 post-graduate entry places which will also see a balanced male/female profile of entry, will copperfasten this trend.

jumpguy

Okay, I am a male BTW, but isn't that kinda a stupid reason to bring in the HPAT? Females and males take the same leaving cert, if someone works hard and gets the points, they should get into medicine, regardless of their gender. Just because females outperform males there's no reason to try and cut back females and get more males in, if females just outperform them. Perhaps the job is being saturated with female doctors, but then again, I think being a doctor has no advantages for a certain gender.

I do think the HPAT is a good idea, it puts medicine within more people's reach, and it allows more people than just the academically talented to get in, but if that's the reason they brought it in, then that's not cool.

ThehPatroniser

"What changes will the new medical entry system bring about?
It will eliminate the four-to-one ratio of females over males. The previous system led to success for those securing between 570-600 CAO points, eighty percent of whom were female. The discounted nature of the points scored between 550 and 600, in the new application rules will eliminate that female advantage. The development of 240 post-graduate entry places which will also see a balanced male/female profile of entry, will copperfasten this trend." (Source Brian Mooney Guidance Counsellor)

I assume that the theory underpinning the hpat is that there is almost no variation between IQ type scores as between males/females (except at the outer reaches of the Bell curve). Thus, the hpat will water down the female advantage arising from the Leaving Result? But that dosen't make sense: if the hpat is sex neutral, and the the LC clearly favours the female (cause they actually work really hard, whereas lads are not genetically designed for work!),then the hpat WILL NOT EXCLUDE THE SEX IMBALANCE. This makes me wonder if the hpat is deliberately designed to penalise females, perhaps being weighted to include more spatial type questions. If that is the case I think female candidates would have just grounds for complaint. I reckon the government dosent like female candidates cause ,over a lifetime, you will lose more of them along the way than their male peers, who generally have the benefit of wives... a great asset if you spend all your waking hours at work...There's something of the night about this down under test...Me gonads tell me that there's a whole lot going on behind closed doors. But what?

jumpguy

Erm, nah, I doubt there's a big conspiracy theory going on here now...I think it just boosts more males into the "viable option" zone therefore increasing the amount of viable males.

amacachi

There's always drives to try to get more girls doing certain subjects that are male-dominated. I don't think either should be done.

And it won't eliminate the 4:1 ratio, just reduce it.

Xtina!! wrote: »

You seem to be in the same boat as I am (like many others). Have you decided what to do yet??

yep, looks like were in similar situations......well my sisters doing med in tcd and ive been talking with her and a number of her class mates! they say that if all you want to do is medicine (like you and i)...then dont torture urself for four years when all u will be doing is regrettin not getting those extra few points. therefore postgrad entry would be my VERY last resort.....+ lifes too short for that!!:D

i think were pretty similar points wise too, so we have a slim chance but realisticly its plan B time.

personally i wouldnt mind taking a year out and focus on the Hpat next Autumn. a year out might even be kinda nice.im fairly confident that i have 550 so wont be repeating LC.....( hope im not jynxing myself)!!!

anyway, whatever you decide we dont have too much time to think about it but i think repeating Hpat is best idea. As for repeating chemistry i also think thats a good plan. you should find out if you need higher level. if not you could do ordinary level with minimum stress and time consumption, although you need higher chem for UCC...which rules me out of there!!!

keep me posted on what you decide to do. Perhaps it would be best to focus on alternative courses over the next few days as the change of mind closing date is fast approaching. Only after we get our results can we decide about repeatin or anything like that!!

Best of luck in August, who knows, there is still a glimmer of hope for all of us!!!:D

cantona56 wrote: »

)...then dont torture urself for four years when all u will be doing is regrettin not getting those extra few points. therefore postgrad entry would be my VERY last resort.....+ lifes too short for that!!:D

i think were pretty similar points wise too, so we have a slim chance but realisticly its plan B time.

anyway, whatever you decide we dont have too much time to think about it but i think repeating Hpat is best idea. As for repeating chemistry i also think thats a good plan. you should find out if you need higher level. if not you could do ordinary level with minimum stress and time consumption, although you need higher chem for UCC...which rules me out of there!!!

I completly agree with you. Like you I don't want to waste 4 years of my life doing a science a course and then get into medicine. Too expensive aswell. Plus it's way more competitive this year.
Thanks you've been of great help. I think the best thing to do though is HL chemistry. HL will cover a lot more than OL and so you'll have more info behind you. I think I'll do what you're going to do. Take a year out, do the hpat and get some medical experience. If that doesn't go well then could always do physio or vet medicine. Give us one more year to think things over anyway. However what bothers me is that you must have HL chemistry in the same year for the 5 year programme. Defo not worth repeating the leaving all over again if you got 550+. Prefer to do the 6 year course.

cantona56 wrote: »

.im fairly confident that i have 550 so wont be repeating LC

but if you missed medicine by 5 points and you thought you could get 575 in the leaving next year giving you 555 + hpat instead of 550, surely you would repeat?

Xtina!! wrote: »

. Defo not worth repeating the leaving all over again if you got 550+. Prefer to do the 6 year course.

but 5points in the leaving could be the 1 point difference between getting medicine or getting knocked out on random selection and your dreams dashed for a lifetime :eek:

i'm a smiler

I got 186 in hpat, predicting around 555 in lc. This would give me 737.

What do you think my chances are for med?

I'm hoping I get into tcd or ucc so I can do a five year course.

ALincoln

I know that this advice is somewhat against the grain in this thread, but people do seem to have worked themselves into a bit of a frenzy.

The truth is that complaining about the HPAT will achieve nothing. Additionally, you can repeat allright, but it's worth remembering that very few people move up in grade substantially when they do the LC for the second (or in extreme cases the third) time.

Sometimes, you just have to accept that something is not going to happen. Some people want med, but just do not have the ability to get it.

If you genuinely are one of those people, I would strongly advise you to stop lamenting the HPAT and be practical about your CAO. Put down all the med options you want, but be certain to choose a course with lower points which is a) realistically attainable and b) you can see yourself enjoying in some way for 3/4 years.

pathway33 wrote: »

but 5points in the leaving could be the 1 point difference between getting medicine or getting knocked out on random selection and your dreams dashed for a lifetime :eek:

Okay, yes, thats true. But personally I think I got 580+ so I wudn't repeat. But it's too soon to talk, we'll have to see in august. I suppose to be more accurate I meant 575 or 580+. If I got around 560 then yes I would repeat.

Zenith23

Ok, well I got a 126 in my HPAT.

And I'm expecting at least 570 in my Leaving Cert but at the moment it seems very unlikely.
I don't want to do anything but medicine, this I know.
I don't have heaps of money so I can't really afford one of those grinds courses for the HPAT.
I really want medicine in TCD and, despite my results in the HPAT, I know that I would be a great doctor in the future.

Any suggestions as to what I should do?