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Poker Boards Discussion thread... (BBV thread)

ocallagh

sceptre wrote: »

Yeah, Feedback. Or the Help Desk, though you could all contribute to one thread in Feedback. If it takes it out of this thread, because it's not helping its existence by being in this thread, take it to a single thread there. Taking over this thread with the complaints/protest is effectively thread-spoiling for those who want this BBV thread to be available to them.

As such we have somehere to discuss the matter. I would encourage anyone who regularly posts in the BBV to make their points here

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Lao Lao

Not much point in re-hashing everything that has been said, but I will say that should the old thread not be replaced, then my time on boards.ie will be severely curtailed.

I would also like to thank Kev, Lloyd, Ste and Dom for all the work and effort that they have put into the poker forum. It's very sad to see you all leave your position as mods but at the same time, it's very refreshing to see people take a stand on a matter of principle.

RoundTower

dannydiamond wrote: »

I'd like to echo the sentiments of the other lads/ladies.

Thanks a million for all of your efforts 5starpool,Ste05,KevIRL,LuckyLloyd.

As smurf said, I can't imagine who would want to mod the poker forum now,I very much doubt there'll be any volunteers from among the regular posters,and that just leaves others who wouldn't 'get' it.

I nominate GuanYin

Karl Hungus

Reading this thread, I'm extremely dissapointed.

Now, I'm not a poker player, never posted on that forum, but certainly knew about the massive community that the forum was. I've been following the going-ons since the thread was originally binned, and I thought to myself, will these poker lads ever stop moaning? You did something naughty, and now you're talking a time out. Just calm down and your thread shall be restored soon. I've laughed at a lot of the stuff being said, yeah, other mods are jealous of the BBV thread, take some more happy pills why don't you? A load of nonsense.

But after reading this, I'm actually more than a little shocked at some of the rhetoric coming from the admins on this one. Do you honestly believe that someone who wasn't online at the time of the incident, was equally as culpable as one of the few persons who actually engaged in the actions? Because by punishing the entire forum, that's exactly what you're saying, and that's something that I cannot get my head around, it's absurd. I'll say it right here in the open for users and admins alike, I'd be very concerned that boards is dangerously close to cutting off it's own nose to spite it's face on this one.

Boards is it's users as much as anything, so don't take them for granted.

Kinetic^

RoundTower wrote: »

I nominate GuanYin

I nominate you to stop trolling.

Toto Wolfcastle

Tbh the poker posters are coming across as being self-righteous and insular and utterly uninterested in the wellbeing of boards as a whole. I mean this has always been obvious to most but the level of vitriol in this thread is astounding.

bops

El Stuntman wrote: »

no point in being repetitive as anything worth saying about this fiasco has already being said but I'd just like to say thanks to 5starpool, Kev, Ste05 and Lloyd for their modding of the poker forum down the years and well done on standing up for your principles.

+1

fair play lads good job etc

dev - you're some tosser

i'm away to 2+2

gl

kpnuts

janeybabe wrote: »

the level of vitriol in this thread is astounding.

Agree. Especially in post #96.

Goodluck2me

Beruthiel wrote: »

Considering that this is not the first time something like this has happened from that thread, considering that, then from our point of view, a stand must be made.
Appalling behaviour by some people and not the first time.

some

If the whole community is suffering because of a few people, will they allow this to happen again or will they actually do something the next time around?

the real question is will anyone still be around there.

I suggest you all take that on board for next time so you do not stand by and allow a few people ruin your forum.

with respect that is exactly what you are doing.

seamus wrote: »

There was little "innocence" in that thread; not a single person reported the thread. Despite the fact that plenty of lurkers and other people not involved in trolling TCN saw what was going on, they implicitly joined in the craic or otherwise turned a blind eye to it.... the fact of the matter is that when the rest of community turns a blind eye to it, they are equally culpable as the offenders.

This is simply incorrect, it is not my job as a poster to report others for misbehaving, and we often see instances of posters being reprimanded for "back-seat modding".
I also assume that you will now be perma-deleting any and every thread from now on where some misdemeanor occurs and a post isnt reported, as is the case here.

DeVore wrote: »

Off topic threads are fine.

Whats not fine is using them as springboards to attack other parts of the site. The rest of this has spun out of control because everyone is getting on their high horses.

attack is a pretty strong word there, disrupt at best.

Yourself included.

Ludo wrote: »

What is BBV?

Beats, Brags and Variance.

I think that this whole thing is bordering on the ridiculous, I cannot, for the life of me, see why this was dealt with any differently to any other instance of messing. i.e. ban the offending posters, warn others about the offending behaviour and move on.
It wasn;t even that legal threats were made, or a certain promotor was mentioned or something harmful in real life was brought up - it was bascially a few people 5 at most, disrupting a thread which has no other purpose but to raise people post count and repeat the number which will be displayed on the right hand corner anyway.

I would suggest that everyone cop themselves on, realise nothing was broken, nobody was hurt - it was just a bit of messing, which will be punished by bans, and move on.
It is the posturing and dictating that is grinding most people's gears right now, and the sooner it is restored, the sooner we get back to normal.

Also as an aside, where do you think all the subscribers who mostly follow BBV are going to post after this?

Karl Hungus

janeybabe wrote: »

Tbh the poker posters are coming across as being self-righteous and insular and utterly uninterested in the wellbeing of boards as a whole. I mean this has always been obvious to most but the level of vitriol in this thread is astounding.

Sorry, but I think by holding every single one of them accountable, that's lumping them all together and pushing them into a corner. That's enough to make anyone insular and only caring about their own well being.

LuckyLloyd

janeybabe wrote: »

Tbh the poker posters are coming across as being self-righteous and insular and utterly uninterested in the wellbeing of boards as a whole. I mean this has always been obvious to most but the level of vitriol in this thread is astounding.

So, in your opinion, it is just to punish many for the crimes of a few? And that we have no genuine case to be answered?

Or, is it just that you haven't really read everything, haven't a ****ing breeze what you're on about - but decided to come in and spread some bile yourself?

"Vitriol in this thread". Yummy. The ironing is delicious.

Hyzepher

janeybabe wrote: »

Tbh the poker posters are coming across as being self-righteous and insular and utterly uninterested in the wellbeing of boards as a whole. I mean this has always been obvious to most but the level of vitriol in this thread is astounding.

I feel that you have no idea what you are talking about - but continue to make a fool of yourself regardless

Jazzy

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Reading this thread, I'm extremely dissapointed.

Now, I'm not a poker player, never posted on that forum, but certainly knew about the massive community that the forum was. I've been following the going-ons since the thread was originally binned, and I thought to myself, will these poker lads ever stop moaning? You did something naughty, and now you're talking a time out. Just calm down and your thread shall be restored soon. I've laughed at a lot of the stuff being said, yeah, other mods are jealous of the BBV thread, take some more happy pills why don't you? A load of nonsense.

But after reading this, I'm actually more than a little shocked at some of the rhetoric coming from the admins on this one. Do you honestly believe that someone who wasn't online at the time of the incident, was equally as culpable as one of the few persons who actually engaged in the actions? Because by punishing the entire forum, that's exactly what you're saying, and that's something that I cannot get my head around, it's absurd. I'll say it right here in the open for users and admins alike, I'd be very concerned that boards is dangerously close to cutting off it's own nose to spite it's face on this one.

Boards is it's users as much as anything, so don't take them for granted.

gotta love the posts where you can just say "pretty much that"

tylerdurden94

Boourns

I would also like to express my thanks to LuckyLloyd/KevIRL/5Starpool/Ste05 for everything they have done for poker. I was only chatting with Lloyd last week in the SE and we were talking about the BBV and he said it was the best thread around and something i seconded.

Wow what a sad sad day if the original BBV cant be brought back to life, talking to some of the lads last night who post but dont really read or get what the BBV is/was about, they cant seem to understand that the poker forum has changed and evolved to soemthing more than it, they just want it to "serious internet business"

I cant really say much more than what has been said 50 times already, but where am i gonna learn about politics, the economy, all the hot wimmins that arent on my radar yet, the randomness of chats that i dont have a clue about that i still read thou and lastly El Stuntman predicting the future and Kayroo being the akinator (http://en.akinator.com/)

seamus

kpnuts wrote: »

Seamus, can you not see it's YOUR analogy that is flawed?

With admin punishing the whole poker community for the idiotic actions of a small few, the equivalent in your analogy above is the Gardai arresting and convicting every past, present and future regular of the pub, including all those who weren't anywhere near the pub on the night the shop heist was planned and executed.

Actually, it would be like using the incident to have the pub's licence revoked. Which wouldn't result in "punishment" for its locals, though they would certainly be inconvenienced.

Karl Hungus wrote: »

But after reading this, I'm actually more than a little shocked at some of the rhetoric coming from the admins on this one. Do you honestly believe that someone who wasn't online at the time of the incident, was equally as culpable as one of the few persons who actually engaged in the actions? Because by punishing the entire forum, that's exactly what you're saying, and that's something that I cannot get my head around, it's absurd. I'll say it right here in the open for users and admins alike, I'd be very concerned that boards is dangerously close to cutting off it's own nose to spite it's face on this one.

I actually don't see how removing the thread is punishment, I don't understand the fuss about it at all. It's an off-topic thread. Meaning that it's disposable - the posts are there for real-time (ish) chat and craic, not as a lockbox of information. The thread is not the community, the community make the thread. It shouldn't make a difference whether it's the old thread or the new one.

I'm just utterly baffled about the massive overreaction - especially considering that the thread has been restarted. Little or nothing has been lost - the community still has their offtopic thread.

But then I don't understand the appeal of off-topic threads at all.

ocallagh

Again, would like to say thanks to LuckyLloyd/KevIRL/5Starpool/Ste05 for all the work they put into the forum.

janeybabe wrote: »

IMO the poker posters are coming across as being self-righteous and insular and utterly uninterested in the wellbeing of boards as a whole. I mean this has always been obvious to me but the level of vitriol in this thread is astounding.

FYP and IMO I don't think you understand the situation. We're trying to protect something that we built up over 4 years. I see no wrong in that. In stark contrast I see plenty wrong in your post. It's not far off a trolling comment and is hardly going to help matters. Please don't post again if it's going to be along the same lines as above.

Macspower

seamus wrote: »

Actually, it would be like using the incident to have the pub's licence revoked. Which wouldn't result in "punishment" for its locals, though they would certainly be inconvenienced.
I actually don't see how removing the thread is punishment, I don't understand the fuss about it at all. It's an off-topic thread. Meaning that it's disposable - the posts are there for real-time (ish) chat and craic, not as a lockbox of information. The thread is not the community, the community make the thread. It shouldn't make a difference whether it's the old thread or the new one.

I'm just utterly baffled about the massive overreaction - especially considering that the thread has been restarted. Little or nothing has been lost - the community still has their offtopic thread.

But then I don't understand the appeal of off-topic threads at all.

this is the whole point of the argument Seamus.. with no disrespect to you or any of the other mods/admins.. but you really don't understand

You would have to be part of the community to realise how big a deal it actually is..

why won't you listen to us genuine decent people and react accordingly.. we are not kids... treat us with the respect we deserve please

Jazzy

seamus wrote: »

I actually don't see how removing the thread is punishment, I don't understand the fuss about it at all. It's an off-topic thread. Meaning that it's disposable

you dont get it. simple as that

seamus

goodluck2me wrote: »

This is simply incorrect, it is not my job as a poster to report others for misbehaving,

I disagree. As a member of a community, your interest should be in maintaining and contributing to the community. Reporting posts falls under these headings IMO.

opr

seamus wrote: »

I disagree. As a member of a community, your interest should be in maintaining and contributing to the community. Reporting posts falls under these headings IMO.

Maybe you have answered this but why was the thread not closed/locked as apposed to moving it to the RB ?

Edit - The admins have shown themselves to be a guiding lights on how to act in situations of this nature.

Opr

Karl Hungus

seamus wrote: »

Actually, it would be like using the incident to have the pub's licence revoked. Which wouldn't result in "punishment" for its locals, though they would certainly be inconvenienced.
I actually don't see how removing the thread is punishment, I don't understand the fuss about it at all. It's an off-topic thread. Meaning that it's disposable - the posts are there for real-time (ish) chat and craic, not as a lockbox of information. The thread is not the community, the community make the thread. It shouldn't make a difference whether it's the old thread or the new one.

I'd agree with you, it's just a thread, it is replaceable and the thread itself isn't the community, but... As I understand the situation, something's happened to the thread now that's kinda ****ed it up. Fair enough, things like that can happen and mistakes can be made. But instead of making amends, you're pointing the finger at every single user of the forum, and saying you're responsible for this.

I don't really think the thread itself is that much of an issue, but rather that the way the admins have responded to the users is the issue.

zuroph

seamus wrote: »

Actually, it would be like using the incident to have the pub's licence revoked. Which wouldn't result in "punishment" for its locals, though they would certainly be inconvenienced.

boards isnt the law in this analogy, its the pub owner. and a pub owner wouldnt send away good customers.

Goodluck2me

seamus wrote: »

I actually don't see how removing the thread is punishment, I don't understand the fuss about it at all. It's an off-topic thread. Meaning that it's disposable - the posts are there for real-time (ish) chat and craic, not as a lockbox of information. The thread is not the community, the community make the thread. It shouldn't make a difference whether it's the old thread or the new one.

I'm just utterly baffled about the massive overreaction - especially considering that the thread has been restarted. Little or nothing has been lost - the community still has their offtopic thread.

But then I don't understand the appeal of off-topic threads at all.

When you say little or nothing has been lost, this is where the part about not understanding the fuss comes in. There is so much information in that thread, it rivaled google for finding things, there was always someone with an answer.
Its basically a photobook of any event poker related from the last five years. Its growth itself was a representation of the poker community in Ireland, in that as poker became more popular, so too, naturally did the BBV. A lot of people first learned how the poker forum worked as part of reading that thread, and countless people from all across boards lurked in it, as it was genuinely funny at times, and often very though provoking.

pgodkin

Hi all i've been offline all weekend so what gardai station do i have to turn myself into??? Cant belive that everyone suffers! Have to say didnt think G Bush got a job running boards, Fkc it Obsma brought down the towers so lets bomb the sh@t out of his country, who cares about the 1000's of normal people killed or injured over it.

PS poker mods you are not allowed to leave.

tylerdurden94

seamus wrote: »

I disagree. As a member of a community, your interest should be in maintaining and contributing to the community. Reporting posts falls under these headings IMO.

I have never felt it my duty to report post's, i have on a couple of occasions reported stuff but in general the modding is that good in the forum that stuff is removed and cleaned up that quick that we dont get the chance.

BigCityBanker

Horseman, pass by!

KevIRL

RoundTower wrote: »

I nominate GuanYin

bops wrote: »

dev - you're some tosser

Bops/RT - These comments really dont help matters. We do appreciate the support but its best for all concerned if we approcach this responsibly

Ollieboy

WOW.

I'm really amazed out this instant as totally got out of hand. For mods to feel they have to resigned and post it on a thread instead of a PM makes me wonder about the lack of communication between the SMods etc. There really seems to be a lack of judgement involved in this whole instance.

Maybe what some people have realise is how the poker community has outgrown boards and needs its own site. Something similiar to Blonde-poker or 2+2 etc were podcasts and special rake deals and be obtain for its members has a community, this is something that boards as always failed to achieve and deliver.

I miss the total incident that everyone is discussing and I was never a fan of the BBV thread has it seem to move to fast or had muliple discussion ongoing over a long period of time. But it was popular and loved by lots.

Dev has given a lot to the Irish poker community and he was one that created this site, I think he should be given the time and respect to reflect on a few decisions here. He is also a poker fan.

Maybe Dev could give this community a few options:

1. Help it set up its own community and home with the BBV thread re-instated.
2. BBV thread re-instated in its current form on boards and we continue.
3. Wish this community the best of luck and let them find a new home.
4. Stick to his guns and remove something that a lot of members had contribute too.

Personally I would perfer option one with a new team involve that could manage the forum like a business and let it grow at a faster pace and give something back to its members along with a home.

Finally some of the comments post by non-poker people in this thread indicate the dislike they seem to have for the poker community.

5starpool

The fact that with almost no exceptions, EVERY poker forum poster thinks the same way on this issue, must mean something? People say they "don't get it". Fine. However, this is not just about the thread, although that is the poster boy issue. This is about admins not being happy eith general moderation of the poker forum, alluding to this, but not saying it, and then using the issue at hand to have a reason to try and clamp down on the overriding ethos of the poker forum. Someone above said that it is not the community, it is only a thread. This is totally incorrect, and shows how it is not understood by people that are not regular posters/readers.

The issue with 'big threads' though is a red herring I'm fairly sure. In the past there were threads locked in the soccer forum when they got to a certain post because apparantly they break boards. If this is the case why is there a thread with nearly 140k posts, onewith nearly 100k posts, and several 60kish threads? If moving big threads breaks the Db, why did it not break the other night? Why was none of this mentioned as a reason for not restoring the old thread until people started showing how much this really is a deal breaker?

If by punishing the majority for the actions of a few you (admins) think you are better than the few who made fun of the thread in TCN, then I respectfully disagree.

oleras

seamus wrote: »

I actually don't see how removing the thread is punishment, I don't understand the fuss about it at all. It's an off-topic thread. Meaning that it's disposable - the posts are there for real-time (ish) chat and craic, not as a lockbox of information. The thread is not the community, the community make the thread. It shouldn't make a difference whether it's the old thread or the new one.

Its about principles Seamus, you may think the thread is disposable, but to the people that volunteered hours and hours of time to both reading it and contributing in it it is not disposable, it is the central focus area of the poker forum, as i am sure you can understand now by the reactions of the community over the weekend and the Mods today. Just because you don't get it does not make it wrong.

As Dev has said, "storm in a teacup", Yes, very much so, but if swifter and more thoughtful actions were taken at the time, eg, pm the mods, tell them sort their forum out or you , as an admin may have to step up and take charge yourself, not delete the whole thread from the whole community, as i said earlier, tres unfair for the others that use it.

Would it honestly be so hard to say, OK, maybe we overreacted, we are but human after all, it was late on a Friday night, maybe we were tired and emotional ? But to dig ones heals in and say stuff like " its never coming back", not you, another admin here, is childish and a small bit insulting to the users and subscribers to Boards.

This could easily be sorted and you would have 4/5 fine and upstanding moderators back and a group of users who feel like they are a community again and not treated like little children when the decisions are made by the adults.

Ponster

So if I understand properly the problem is that the thread was moved rather than locked and now we're unable to retrieve it even to leave as a read-only link?

While it may look like it I'm very sure that DeV is discussing with others (hopefully other admins + the poker mods) and I'd expect a resolution to come about pretty soon.