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N11 Eniscorthy Bypass

Road-Hog

Apparently the CPO's for the above were published yesterday.......:)

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Bards

Carawaystick wrote: »

I thought most of Waterford's port business was moved down to Bellvue several years ago. on the N29?

Yep moved downstream to Bellview

Carawaystick

Chris_533976 wrote: »

But ONLY if New Ross' and Waterfords ports are both shut down and used for community things instead of an ugly port.

I thought most of Waterford's port business was moved down to Bellvue several years ago. on the N29?

Chris_533976

Yes but lets be sensible with all this. The way the south is trying to fight it, we're going to have container ports at Rosslare, New Ross, Waterford and Cork.

Thats absolutely ridiculous.

So yes, lets have motorway to Rosslare (via M11) and DC to Rosslare (via N25). But ONLY if New Ross' and Waterfords ports are both shut down and used for community things instead of an ugly port. Corks one could be scaled back (say, not moved). Would help boost Rosslare, make Cork/Waterford/NewRoss nicer places and would bring a modicum of sense into this whole port fight.

serfboard

veryangryman wrote: »

Me? I definitely think that area needs the investment. Rosslare is an important port for Cork, Waterford and Limerick (at a stretch). Development of the N24, N25 and M11 would make it a far shorter route for London/European HGVs than Holyhead-Dublin

Yes the moneys not there, but i do think it should be considered when it is

Sorry to continue the off-topicness, but defo agree with the above, and could never understand why Rosslare has not been developed further. I would also agree with other comments that development on the Welsh side would help an awful lot.

As others have said, in 10 years time, if we have money again and after all the other major bottlenecks are gone, I would build an M11 and an M24. (or at least an N24 2+2).

Stupido

Quadra wrote: »

I know this thread is about the Enniscorthy bypass plan (very welcome), but the issue of Rosslare Port is important to the development of Wexford. BTW, I'm from Wexford.

I'd argue that Wexford has long been the poor cousin in terms of investment in the south east. If you talk to people about why this is the case, two reasons generally come up (amongst many others):

1. The road network from Wexford to Dublin is sub-standard, eventhough Wexford is not a great distance from Dublin.

2. While the port facilities in Rosslare Harbour are good, it's basically the lack of innovative and competitive thinking within Irish Rail which has held back the development of services in the port - as in, services & rates that importers / exporters are more inclined to use / pay ahead of Waterford or Dublin. A good example is IR not joining up their rail and port service, but there are many others, spanning many years.

While a fully joined-up M11 is a few years away yet, it's going in the right direction (addressing point 1).

I think the ideal solution to point 2 is to indeed complete the M11 to Rosslare Harbour (via the N11-N25 Wexford bypass) AND replace IR as the authority in the Harbour with an organization more concerned with business development than maintenance of the status quo.

Then I think you have a good combination that will help Wexford do better in the future.

spot on!

veryangryman

Me? I definitely think that area needs the investment. Rosslare is an important port for Cork, Waterford and Limerick (at a stretch). Development of the N24, N25 and M11 would make it a far shorter route for London/European HGVs than Holyhead-Dublin

Yes the moneys not there, but i do think it should be considered when it is

Quadra

I know this thread is about the Enniscorthy bypass plan (very welcome), but the issue of Rosslare Port is important to the development of Wexford. BTW, I'm from Wexford.

I'd argue that Wexford has long been the poor cousin in terms of investment in the south east. If you talk to people about why this is the case, two reasons generally come up (amongst many others):

1. The road network from Wexford to Dublin is sub-standard, eventhough Wexford is not a great distance from Dublin.

2. While the port facilities in Rosslare Harbour are good, it's basically the lack of innovative and competitive thinking within Irish Rail which has held back the development of services in the port - as in, services & rates that importers / exporters are more inclined to use / pay ahead of Waterford or Dublin. A good example is IR not joining up their rail and port service, but there are many others, spanning many years.

While a fully joined-up M11 is a few years away yet, it's going in the right direction (addressing point 1).

I think the ideal solution to point 2 is to indeed complete the M11 to Rosslare Harbour (via the N11-N25 Wexford bypass) AND replace IR as the authority in the Harbour with an organization more concerned with business development than maintenance of the status quo.

Then I think you have a good combination that will help Wexford do better in the future.

Judgement Day

Rosslare is solely ro-ro and despite being owned by Iarnrod Eireann sees not as much as parcel being railed to or from the port.

Carawaystick

Bards wrote: »

I don't think your figures are accurate.

from http://www.imdo.ie/shipping/index.htm

Maritime Container Cargo (Lift On/Lift Off) Handled by Port, Year, Direction

Isn't Rosslare's port trafic not mainly ro-ro though?

murphaph

If we went purely on AADT figures and followed the well establihed UK model we wouldn't have built any of the interurbans in their entirety of course

We would have build hundreds of S2 bypasses instead.

So ro reiterate what I aid (again for the hard of reading);

I would like to see it as a goal to extend DUALLING (doesn't have to be motorway, 2+2 would be fine) to Rosslare from Oilgate when this proposed scheme is complete. I would not see it as a priority over the likes of the proposed M20 etc. Clear enough?

Thanks.

mysterious

murphaph wrote: »

You're hard to fathom sometimes mysterious (hence the name I suppose). Rosslare is in a great spot for cargo to Britain and France yet is very underused. I wonder why? It makes sense to GRADUALLY extend the motorway or at least dual the N11/N25 from Oilgate (the end of this latest proposed scheme) to Rosslare.

But its uses about 6,000 to 7,000 a day, after Rosslare town its half that....

Its not a priority. Especially when you have towns such as Adare and Clareglaway which have 3-4 times the amount of traffic than the N11 at Rosslare. They need bypasses first.

I don't recall saying anything about the priority level I would place on such a dualling. I certainly don't recall placing it above the M20 or any of the other projects you started foaming at the mouth about.

The M20 (if you're interested in anyone's opinion apart from your own) would be important to me than the dualling I mentioned above but I'm sorry for musing about potential future developments. You constantly bang on about future proofing this and that yet when someone else says something along the same lines about a route that leads to an active and potentially much more ueful port, you fly off the handle. Strange.

There was nothing strange in what I said. I say future proof roads where necessary. But we cant be building motorways eveywhere. There has to be priorities and planning involved. You know we could go with your argument and build a motorway in Donegal and divert funds from the M17/M20, cus as you say, lets future proof these roads, should we divert the Claregalway and Adare bypasses to building a super highway that carries little to no traffic to Rosslare.

Get your facts straight.:rolleyes: If anyone has strange assertions on this matter it's you. I've always had to make this obvious to you. Here I am yet again.

I think most right minded folks here would see the logic in extending dualling along the N11/N25 corridor to Rosslare and perhaps the N24 should be on that list somewhere to create a decent quality cross country route that doesn't involve going via the M50. Anyway, long wat away but it would be useful to the south, west and midwest to have speedy access to Rosslare.

Oh of coursse why not:rolleyes:

Not now, not soon and and not a priority YET.

Bards

invincibleirish wrote: »

If i'm correct in my figures then I believe its Dublin Port that handles 90% of the states container traffic?

I don't think your figures are accurate.

from http://www.imdo.ie/shipping/index.htm

Maritime Container Cargo (Lift On/Lift Off) Handled by Port, Year, Direction and Statistic 2007
All directions
Total Units (TEU Twenty-foot Equivalent)

All ports 1,173,301
Cork 196,737
Drogheda 29,832
Dublin 744,156
Shannon Foynes 16,617
Waterford 185,959

invincibleirish

murphaph wrote: »

It's not remote really now is it? It's 2 counties from Dublin and I dare say road cargo from Cherrywood/Bray might be well on its way to Rosslare by the time it navigated the entire M50 and got into Dublin Port via the tunnel (especially during rush hours). In any case, Rosslare could be set up to handle freight from not just Dublin but the South and west/midwest if the N25 was dualled throughout and if the N24 was looked at. I just feel Rosslare is a useful port. However, it would be a LOT more useful if the Welsh upgraded the A40 in tandem with an N11/N25 upgrade on our side.

Dublin Port also happens to be quite valuable (even today) and a lot of the freight (most?) that heads across the water from Dublin actually makes its way towards the south east and on to the continent via Dover. Rosslare in comparison would be relatively inexpensive to expand and there's plenty of space to do so.

I'm not saying dual it today or tomorrow but that it should be on the agenda (which I believe it is).

Fair enough, but again you cite upgrades of the N24, N25, N11, thats a lot of money to upgrade what are essentially low traffic roads in rural areas. If i'm correct in my figures then I believe its Dublin Port that handles the majority of the states container traffic? surely provision of infrastructure at and near ports already near our urban areas and close to key infrastructure which will be used by more then just those bound for the ferry & minor local traffic?.

-Edited for Bards-

murphaph

invincibleirish wrote: »

But Murphaph, surely Rosslares remote location in relation to Dublin-Belfast discounts it from ever seeing serious expansion, if Ireland is going to increase its ports capacity & footfall surely its going to happen at the Ports in the main urban areas themselves?

It's not remote really now is it? It's 2 counties from Dublin and I dare say road cargo from Cherrywood/Bray might be well on its way to Rosslare by the time it navigated the entire M50 and got into Dublin Port via the tunnel (especially during rush hours). In any case, Rosslare could be set up to handle freight from not just Dublin but the South and west/midwest if the N25 was dualled throughout and if the N24 was looked at. I just feel Rosslare is a useful port. However, it would be a LOT more useful if the Welsh upgraded the A40 in tandem with an N11/N25 upgrade on our side.

Dublin Port also happens to be quite valuable (even today) and a lot of the freight (most?) that heads across the water from Dublin actually makes its way towards the south east and on to the continent via Dover. Rosslare in comparison would be relatively inexpensive to expand and there's plenty of space to do so.

I'm not saying dual it today or tomorrow but that it should be on the agenda (which I believe it is).

invincibleirish

But Murphaph, surely Rosslares remote location in relation to Dublin-Belfast discounts it from ever seeing serious expansion, if Ireland is going to increase its ports capacity & footfall surely its going to happen at the Ports in the main urban areas themselves?

murphaph

mysterious wrote: »

I know we have to provide for the 200 people that live in Rosslare town and not to mention the Port, that carries 5/6 ships per day. I'd say we should build a 3+3 motorway so in that way I wont have to complain in 60 years time and have to hear these local gobeens complaining also.

You're hard to fathom sometimes mysterious (hence the name I suppose). Rosslare is in a great spot for cargo to Britain and France yet is very underused. I wonder why? It makes sense to GRADUALLY extend the motorway or at least dual the N11/N25 from Oilgate (the end of this latest proposed scheme) to Rosslare.

I don't recall saying anything about the priority level I would place on such a dualling. I certainly don't recall placing it above the M20 or any of the other projects you started foaming at the mouth about.

The M20 (if you're interested in anyone's opinion apart from your own) would be important to me than the dualling I mentioned above but I'm sorry for musing about potential future developments. You constantly bang on about future proofing this and that yet when someone else says something along the same lines about a route that leads to an active and potentially much more ueful port, you fly off the handle. Strange.

I think most right minded folks here would see the logic in extending dualling along the N11/N25 corridor to Rosslare and perhaps the N24 should be on that list somewhere to create a decent quality cross country route that doesn't involve going via the M50. Anyway, long wat away but it would be useful to the south, west and midwest to have speedy access to Rosslare.

mysterious

invincibleirish wrote: »

But Mysterious you don't understand, its a strategic 'euroroute'! it connects to a 'europort'. No doubt the locals have for years wanted this bypass. All perfectly valid reasons for building a Motorway in the empty Wexford countryside, we are in Ireland after all....

I know we have to provide for the 200 people that live in Rosslare town and not to mention the Port, that carries 5/6 ships per day. I'd say we should build a 3+3 motorway so in that way I wont have to complain in 60 years time and have to hear these local gobeens complaining also.

invincibleirish

But Mysterious you don't understand, its a strategic 'euroroute'! it connects to a 'europort'. No doubt the locals have for years wanted this bypass. All perfectly valid reasons for building a Motorway in the empty Wexford countryside, we are in Ireland after all....

mysterious

Rosslare and wexford road a motorway:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Get over it people ffs.... The road carries about 6000 a day at Rosslare, it empties after Wexford bypass and is generally local generated traffic. Get off this i want my blue motorway nonsense. Its pathetic and in these times its absaloutely redicoulous to pump such money into it.

When Adare, Cork N20, M17 are completed and 60 years time, you can have your Rosslare motorway.

murphaph

Judgement Day wrote: »

Yeah, that's right just a bit of rock blasting who cares about the impact on the environment. There's only a few Norman castles and other national monuments to fcuk up but who cares. Lets have dual carriageways linking every parish pump in Ireland!
PS Who's going to pay for their upkeep? :mad:

Calm down. Linking Rosslare to the rest of the motorway network would appear sensible to me. I would not consider it a parish pump because it has a port that could be put to much more use than presently.

I understand there may be obstacles along the existing Wexford bypass but it is a WS2 IIRC so widening it to 2+2 (no hard shoulders) shouldn't be too intrusive.

nordydan

You have to pay to upkeep the WS2 anyway, D2+2 costs are little more, plus you can close one carriageway easily to do one side at a time (no cones etc). The way to go.

Having checked on Google maps, I see no major issues with widening the Wexford bypass to 2+2

murphaph

Judgement Day wrote: »

Yeah, that's right just a bit of rock blasting who cares about the impact on the environment. There's only a few Norman castles and other national monuments to fcuk up but who cares. Lets have dual carriageways linking every parish pump in Ireland!
PS Who's going to pay for their upkeep? :mad:

paddyboy23

sooner the f......g better they get one

D.L.R.

Not sure about that dog leg via Clavass. Not very efficient.

Judgement Day

murphaph wrote: »

That's great. This is now scheduled to be 2+2 right?

The N11/N25 corridor to/from Rosslare should be at least D2 throughout I feel. Rosslare could be much more useful but it would be nice to see activity on the Welsh side. It's still a fair distance from Fishguard/Pembroke to any D2 over there.

Any other projects on the horizon for the N11/N25 south of Enniscorthy? Can the Wexford bypass be windened to 2+2, intuitively I think it can (with some rock blasting) but have only driven it a few times.

Yeah, that's right just a bit of rock blasting who cares about the impact on the environment. There's only a few Norman castles and other national monuments to fcuk up but who cares. Lets have dual carriageways linking every parish pump in Ireland!
PS Who's going to pay for their upkeep? :mad:

Chris_533976

Yeah that what I heard too. Tho with the latest 'planned 2+2 splurge' I wouldnt be surpirsed if the N30 gets upgraded to 2+2.

nordydan

Chris_533976 wrote: »

New Ross bypass is D2 (2+2), not S2.

The N25 section is D2, the N30 section is S2 (last time I checked)

Chris_533976

New Ross bypass is D2 (2+2), not S2.

nordydan

The new upgraded part of the N30, the planned New Ross bypass and the other section all both be S2.

Whatever about the road, if the bridges are not built at least with 2+2 in mind, that will be a major disappointment. I drove down the upgraded section of the N30 a few months ago, but cannot remember how wide the bridges were.

murphaph

The only thing that diappoints me a bit is that the 8km N30 part of the scheme will be S2. Picture this: M11/N11 complete as D2 or better to wexford and N25 from Wexford to Rosslare is also D2. Then given the planned improvements to the N25 from Waterford to Cork (including the almost finished Waterford Bypass and the planned New Ross Bypass) it seems a shame that the N30 can't be upgraded to 2+2 to provide an alternate high quality route to South Dublin from the South and South East. It seems almost silly to build the New Ross bypass as D2 and then not strive to upgrade the N30 to 2+2 or better but to be honest if all this goes ahead the roads in the area will be pretty good.