lostexpectation wrote: » the exit poll showed people voted for the wrong reason, ie xenophobia
PaulieD wrote: » 79% of Irish people voted for this change in the constitution. Now, to dismiss their legitmate concerns over this issue as simple racism is absurd. We live in a democracy, my friend. The people have a right to voice their opinions. If you dont like it try somewhere else. In the most recent opinion poll on immigration "ALMOST TWO-THIRDS of adults in the State believe immigration policy should be made more restrictive given the worsening economic outlook". Are they all racist as well? Immigration is a major concern for some people at present, please stop using the racism card, any argument you may have is lost once you do so. It is demeaning to people who actually experience racism. Now you claim we need major population growth to pay pensions. Well heres news for you, immigrants grow old too, they will need pensions in their later years. They dont live on air. So in effect, you are just delaying the inevitable. At the moment we are finding it difficult to provide services for the people already on this island. Education system stretched to the brink, students in prefabs, more cutbacks on the way. Health system is on par with the 3rd world. Social Welfare services at record levels. Do you really think importing more people is what we need at the moment, seriously?
markopantelic wrote: » yep, i'd say pretty much close to that number is in some way xenephobic, strange country we live in, many actually do think we're being overun by immigrants, i mean i had a cousin over who lives in london and if you said dublin was 'multicultural' he'd give you the old roll eyes.
samsham wrote: » A lot of people taught the same as you. Children born in Ireland will always have citizenship. regarding my child. If anything was to happen to me my child has the right to live in Ireland, but her mother does not. You hardly think the mother would leave her here alone. The mother can be deported. which means the child goes too. I don't think thats fair. Do you
squonk wrote: » The child can come back when they are of an age where they can assert their own independence. What's the problem? Just because you have a child in a country shouldn't mean you have automatic rights to citizenship of that country.
samsham wrote: » Don't you just love that "MY FRIEND" crap. Its was pure racism, You see how ill informed people are, You have just highlighted the ignorance in your argument. People who emigrate here legally are no financial burden on the state. You must provide bank details to show you can support your wife. You must provide health insurance to insure hospital care is covered. Lastly you are not entitled to claim welfare in this state until you have been resident more than two years that applies to returning Irish too. Your argument might apply to asylum seekers, but that's not what I am talking about.
PaulieD wrote: » I was being civil, try it some time. This may be an emotive issue for you, for good reason it effects the two people you love most, but you wont win people over by screaming racist if they disagree with you. Are you honestly suggesting 79% of the people in this country are racist? That is a lie and you know it. People who emigrate here are entitled to child benefits, are entitled to all the services that the state provides for citizens with an exception in social welfare. That costs money, which we do not have. I am not talking about asylum seekers.
sideshowsue wrote: » I stand corrected. I merely wanted to point out that the Irish naturalisation procedure is by no means a 'snap your fingers and it's done' process. As someone who is currently going through the naturalisation process and hopes to see a positive and fruitful end to my application, it is frustrating to hear/read comments from those who think that the entire process takes a matter of months. It's a matter of years--long, frustrating years in which it is impossible to get any clear guidance or or even a guestimate as to when a decision will be taken. Sorry for the mini rant.
samsham wrote: » your logic would imply none of us would have any rights then, You were born here why should you have a right to a passport. Our first president should have been kicked out too. I am talking about the spouse of an Irish person, like your wife. You dont think she should have rights.
samsham wrote: » No I dont agree with you when I or my wife are sick the state pays me nothing. I have no free medical. I work. Who the hell these days gets free medical care? As for child benefit. My child is a citizen and so am I. Why should we be treated differently from you. Before the referendum Spouse of Irish were naturalized citizens trough marriage. This was changed, why? there was no flood of foreign women wanting to marry Irish men for citizenship. So what was the change about.
PaulieD wrote: » Do you think it may be possible that normal decent people might have concerns over the amount of foreign nationals this country has absorbed in the last couple of years? Can one have rational concerns about immigration without being referred to as a xenophobe?
ionix5891 wrote: » blame the government asylum seekers are not allowed to work, even if they want to
oscarBravo wrote: » If people are concerned about having foreigners in the country, that pretty much makes them xenophobic by definition.
samsham wrote: » Don't think it's a simple as that. that's from someone dealing with emigration officials on a frequent basis. When I first brought my wife to emmigration, I was ashmed to be Irish. Firstly your wife is photographed and finger printed. Then issued with an National Garda immigration identification card and told she must carry it at all times or could face arrest or deportation. Its my wife were talking about not a criminal. Meanwhile our Government who implements this policy goes to Washington cap in hand looking for an amnesty for our illegals. What a shower of hyprocrites. Beleive me I know noone who got nuturalization in five years. You are only intitled to apply after three years.
SWL wrote: » Reading your posts you come across as very naive, every country is entitled to control its boarders, surely before you married and started a family you looked into the status of your family should anything happen to you. I understand you’re predicament, As a child of an Irish farther and European mother, I am not an Irish citizen by choice, as I was born and reared in another country that of my mothers.Unfortunately you are at the receiving end of a system that can not be reformed because unless the country’s immigration policy consists a free for all any border controls and immigration policy that is discussed and is not conforming to a passport and a right to residency for tom dick and Harry then everybody who opposes that view is a racist and xenophobic, which is nonsense.you self have played on that fact calling people racist because they didn’t agree with your biased view, which is why the status quo exists had immigration policy being discussed in a mature manner without the usual chants of racism etc then maybe your problem wont exist because a legal mechanism could be used.PaulieD post hit the nail on the head, complete abuse of a system, so don’t blame Irish people for stopping the abuse blame the people who abused the system in the first place.
samsham wrote: » What abuse Ireland has the lowest numbers of foreign emmigrants in any european state. We had close to 500,000 foreigners during the boom, Just 40,000 were uninvited. 400,000+ were contributing towords our economy, the othere were not allowed. Like I said were an Island. Everything must fly in here. France and Britian were allowing migrants pass there borders to enter Ireland. There is a solution alright. Its protecting your borders, not leglislating against babies.
af_thefragile wrote: » ^aren't those immigrants paying taxes like other people?? If you get down to numbers, i maybe wrong... But the money they pay in taxes would come to pretty much what they get back as social welfare... Though Nigerian immigrants, who aren't asylum seekers can't get the full dole social welfare, like the Irish and rest of EU immigrants. All they get are some welfare benefits for kids and house rent... Correct me if i'm wrong...
PaulieD wrote: » What abuse? I showed you already, using just one group. I will look more indepth later and give you a full round up of the scale of abuse because of this loophole. Citizenship should not be awarded just for giving birth on Irish soil. To say otherwise is absurd. Citizenship has to be earned, it is the greatest gift and compliment the Irish state can bestow on a non national. The Irish people voted in their droves(79%) to change it, if you dont like it I am sorry, but that is democracy. Its a beautiful thing. The system was being abused by people having anchor babies and gaining citizenship. It is unfortunate that legitimate cases like yourself are being hurt by the change in legislation. Just to put some perspective on the scale of abuse, a recent article on immigration understates the problem with Nigerian immigration and social welfare benefits. According to the Department of Trades records, 332 work permits were granted to Nigerians over the years while fewer than 150 were granted refugee status during the same period by the minister for justice. Stated Government policy and Irish immigration law prohibits the payment of welfare benefits to non-EU nationals, other than those granted refugee status. That, in effect, means the maximum number of Nigerians eligible to claim welfare benefits here is 150. A massive number of Nigerians have immigrated to Ireland. The previous Minister for Justice stated that no amnesty was to be granted to these people, yet a scheme was designed to allow them remain in Ireland called the IBC/05 scheme. This scheme granted the right of full welfare benefits to these immigrants. Those who came to Ireland may, if they so choose, claim unemployment and rental accommodation payments and all other welfare benefits including medical cards. In effect, the scheme created a new category of immigrant, one that has no lawful basis. Thousands of Nigerian immigrants have never worked in Ireland, yet the Irish taxpayer has to pay for them for the rest of their natural lives. The IBC/05 scheme was grafted on to existing immigration law, even though no legislation for the provision of welfare benefits to illegal immigrants exists. No Bill to accommodate it was brought before the Oireachtas and no vote on this scheme was ever taken even though it requires a massive diversion of publicly raised funds destined for other purposes and voted on by Dail Eireann. The scheme was implemented in January 2005. More illegal immigrants were granted leave to remain here under this scheme then than the combined total of legal immigrants granted work permits from non-EU countries over the past four years. Some 23,178 Nigerians are registered with the Department of social welfare. How is this number possible? Extrapolating from the figures published last week Nigerians alone are receiving a minimum of €100m in benefits per year. This figure is likely much higher. The scale of the problem is apparent to ordinary Irish people. The regulation and enforcement of immigration law and policies is currently in a state of anarchy. Resentment of this injustice against the Irish people is ignored by the political establishment and allowed to fester. Oh and by the way nobody was given an invitation by the Irish people to come here, they choose to off their own free will. Stop peddling lies.
PaulieD wrote: » They are granted leave to remain having never worked in Ireland. They get full welfare entitlements. I suggest you read my post before you reply. These people where given leave to remain simply because they gave birth on Irish soil. Not granted refugee status. The Irish people voted against this and this is undemocratic. It should be revoked, when given leave to remain one must not prove to be a burden on the state. These people obviously are.
samsham wrote: » I know exactly what your reporting I lived next to a sea side resort in Tramore that housed these Asylum seekers. They were granted residency because of a time delay and backlog in dealing with claims. The claimed asylum here, and under UN agreements we have signed up to our Government accepted them. The debate on citizenship came later. Now do you have the figures for people giving citizenship in Ireland based on there child being born here, No you don't because there are none. Asilum seekers will always arive here. that's a different issue.
seamus wrote: » In any case, since deportations are usually decided upon by a judge, the odds of your wife being sent home based on the facts of her case would be minimal.
af_thefragile wrote: » If they aren't asylum seekers then why are they getting full welfare entitlements?? As far as i know, no non-EU immigrant is entitled to welfare benefits. They can claim for little things like rent and child allowence but not full welfare/dole like where they get paid for sitting on their arse all day. I think there has to be something like if the person is previously been living in the country for minimum of 5years, paying taxes, contributing to the society, then if the person gives birth in Ireland, they can claim welfare or citizenship. If they came like 2 weeks ago and gave birth, then they can't claim. Although, i do say there shouldn't be a social welfare for anyone to get paid for sitting on their arse all day. But thats a different debate.
PaulieD wrote: » They are not asylum seekers anymore, they came here seeking asylum got refused but given leave to remain under the IBC scheme. Basically for giving birth on Irish soil. Now, they are entitled to full welfare benefits and are clearly(see my post) exercising that right. The numbers I qouted never worked here. The loophole is now closed and these where the last to be given leave to remain under the scheme, after the referendum. This is undemocratic.
af_thefragile wrote: » I guess the referendum worked fine there. If it stopped these "asylum seekers" from exploiting the system. But as i mentioned, it made life difficult for genuine people like the OP. If there could be a clause where the person in living for 5 years paying his taxes and all (in which case he is entitled to citizenship) and then gives birth, then the person should be able to claim for the right to remain in the country (atleast for the kid).
