nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

IRCHSS results

lagreene

Hi,
Just a quick question for those of you who previously applied for the IRCHSS scheme 1 for postgrads- when did you hear back from IRCHSS? It says not before May - any more precise details on the date?
Thanks!:)

Find more posts tagged with

irchss

Quick Links

Comments

LordOctane2009

What I meant about a level playing field was that the IRCHSS should stick to their own rules. It's the same old story with rules only being applied when it suits. I am surprised that more of you haven't expressed any anger over this. The reality is at least some of you will be rejected and you will be told that you breached the guidelines even though others will do the same and get funded. It is simply not good enough

Mr dissidence

TJJP wrote: »

Nonsense. I wouldn’t believe everything I hear on the corridors of NUIG.

More nonsense. From the corridors of UCD no doubt.

I'm sure they will be delighted to share the intimate details of sensitive negotiations with you....

--

Note to all here, have a read of the thread and just have a think about some of what you are posting.

Also, consider the number of 'researchers' here 'quoting' boards.ie as a source...

Do any of you really expect to benefit from a highly competitive 'award' made on the basis of academic excellence?

I ain't seeing much of it here...

I don't think comments on a forum are any indication of one's research or academic ability. Also, It's hard to be objective when all guidelines provided so far have been transgressed and vandalized. I didn't hear that comment in a corridor and fully realize that it is unconfirmed and ultimately cannot really be confirmed prior to the issuing of the results. The best of luck with you're application however.

_hybrid_

there has only been a small amount of cuts to the IRCSET funding, can you really think that they would divide the irchss funding by 8 and think they would get away with it?. . .i dont think so, i reckon 100 will get places, absolute minimum 80

i believe you are telling the truth that you believe what you were saying but that could have been told to you for a variety of reasons and without thorough knowledge of the context none of us could really make a decision on whether or not it is plausible.hearsay doesn't hold up in court

Howyamissus

Dowdy wrote: »

So the DES doesn't see a list of candidates, just a number? I had assumed they got to have a gander over the list, but what you say makes more sense surely.

Did Batt O'Keeffe give any specific details as to the size of the restrictions, do you know? That was announced in October's budget, so the IRCHSS would have been aware of the volume of awards available and would have provided the DES with a number commensurate with that, so it still leaves the current DES impasse unexplained.

I'm tired of this speculation though really. I think I'll give up on this thread because the rumours flying around are just freaking me out more than anything.

Good luck to everyone anyway...

Hey Dowdy,
I know how you feel (I suppose we all do -- that's the point of the blog). But yeah the rumour mill is getting a little tiresome. However, I for one am finding it very difficult to concentrate on my research as I am so anxious. Like everybody all my plans are contingent on IRCHSS. Anyway hopefully Ireland can cheer us up when they beat Bulgaria tomorrow evening.

Dowdy

TJJP wrote: »

There is no list involved. Only a number, in direct proportion to the available funding from national government. An International Board decides who meets the quality bar and who doesn't. After that the funds go to the best candidates in rank order. There is no politics, no elections, no subject bias, no institutional bias or otherwise.

It's down to money - or lack of it and how this might tie in with national policy.

---

In October 2008, Minister Batt O'Keeffe outlined the detail of the 2009 Budget provision for his Department:

There will be restrictions in the volume of awards made by the two Research Councils (Irish Research Council for Science, Engineering and Technology and Irish Research Council for Humanities and Social Sciences).

So the DES doesn't see a list of candidates, just a number? I had assumed they got to have a gander over the list, but what you say makes more sense surely.

Did Batt O'Keeffe give any specific details as to the size of the restrictions, do you know? That was announced in October's budget, so the IRCHSS would have been aware of the volume of awards available and would have provided the DES with a number commensurate with that, so it still leaves the current DES impasse unexplained.

I'm tired of this speculation though really. I think I'll give up on this thread because the rumours flying around are just freaking me out more than anything.

Good luck to everyone anyway...

Dowdy

TJJP wrote: »

Also, considered the number of 'researchers' here 'quoting' boards.ie as a source?

Do any of you really expect to benefit from a highly competitive 'award' made on the basis of academic excellence?

I ain't seeing much of it here...

Yeah, everyone here is 'quoting' boards.ie as a source and would also do so in a doctoral thesis. You see, we can't distinguish between the free-for-all, unsubstantiated, informal discourse of an internet forum, and the authoritative, carefully researched, fact-checked, and reasonably argued discourse of academia. To us, they're one and the same thing. We're stupid like that.

To respond to your post with another question - do you really expect to see academic excellence on boards.ie? Carefully attributed quotes from reliable sources? And if so, why on earth would you expect that? This is a place for blathering and venting - the academic excellence occurs elsewhere and is evident (or not, as the case may be) in people's academic writing, not in their random internet posts.

Your other points are all good though, I must admit!

TJJP

Dowdy wrote: »

Listen - none of us know for sure, we won't know until the DES approve a list of candidates.

There is no list involved. Only a number, in direct proportion to the available funding from national government. An International Board decides who meets the quality bar and who doesn't. After that the funds go to the best candidates in rank order. There is no politics, no elections, no subject bias, no institutional bias or otherwise.

It's down to money - or lack of it and how this might tie in with national policy.

---

In October 2008, Minister Batt O'Keeffe outlined the detail of the 2009 Budget provision for his Department:

There will be restrictions in the volume of awards made by the two Research Councils (Irish Research Council for Science, Engineering and Technology and Irish Research Council for Humanities and Social Sciences).

TJJP

Mr dissidence wrote: »

I am quite sure about this. <SNIP> I should've said nothing, perhaps.

1) No you are not. You are wrong.

2) No perhaps about it, you were told, albeit incorrectly, in confidence.

TJJP

Mr dissidence wrote: »

Dear all,

I have it on good authority that the budget for this year's round of postgrad scholarships has been dramatically attenuated. Instead of last year's healthy 152, this year's successful applicant list will look more like 22!

Nonsense. I wouldn’t believe everything I hear on the corridors of NUIG.

LordOctane2009 wrote: »

What I am saying is that all applications are not being judged the same <SNIP>.

More nonsense. From the corridors of UCD no doubt.

Dowdy wrote: »

I'm going to ring the IRCHSS now to see if they can confirm or deny this. Christ...

I'm sure they will be delighted to share the intimate details of sensitive negotiations with you....

--

Note to all here, have a read of the thread and just have a think about some of what you are posting.

Also, consider the number of 'researchers' here 'quoting' boards.ie as a source...

Do any of you really expect to benefit from a highly competitive 'award' made on the basis of academic excellence?

I ain't seeing much of it here...

Dowdy

Mr dissidence wrote: »

I am quite sure about this, a senior lecturer told me in confidence- I can say no more than that. I am a bit upset at the comments I am receiving, I am sorry to bring bad news but I have been contributing to this forum intently over the past few weeks and really felt that it was important to keep everyone in the loop. I should've said nothing, perhaps.

Hey, don't be upset, people are just a bit freaked out after hearing that, it was a shocking rumour to all of us.

I'm still not sure whether your rumour has any substance - the lecturer you heard this from may have been privy to a false rumour himself/herself. We just can't know.

Listen - none of us know for sure, we won't know until the DES approve a list of candidates, and based purely on the statistics from last year the majority of us would be rejected anyway. So let's not fret too much, try to face this with some measure of stoic resignation, and forget all about it for now and continue to enjoy the fine weather.

Unless it rains. Then we're all screwed.

Mr dissidence

Dowdy wrote: »

:eek: :mad:

Sweet mother of god, please say this isn't true... Can you let us know where you heard this, or at least back up your claim in some way? I'm screwed too, if this is the case, mine is kind of interdisciplinary too.

I'm going to ring the IRCHSS now to see if they can confirm or deny this. Christ...

@Lord Octane - there's no such thing as a level playing field, the game is always rigged. Haven't you watched The Wire?

I am quite sure about this, a senior lecturer told me in confidence- I can say no more than that. I am a bit upset at the comments I am receiving, I am sorry to bring bad news but I have been contributing to this forum intently over the past few weeks and really felt that it was important to keep everyone in the loop. I should've said nothing, perhaps.

Dowdy

Mr dissidence wrote: »

Obviously I can't tell you where I received that figure. I am sorry for any distress my previous post has caused you, but as I relayed I have it on 'good authority' that a dramatic slash in funding has taken place and that the figure for successful projects will be about 20 or 30 this year. I really don't find this surprising considering the recent cut-backs and global economic downturn. Again, I am sorry if my post caused distress. I would not have recklessly posted such a figure if I didn't have pretty solid info surrounding the ap process (info that has come from a senior level). I am in the same position as yourself, and wish you all the best.

Jesus... Ah well. Look on the bright side - at least we're all still alive. For now...

Dowdy

Mr dissidence wrote: »

Dear all,

I have it on good authority that the budget for this year's round of postgrad scholarships has been dramatically attenuated. Instead of last year's healthy 152, this year's successful applicant list will look more like 22! I definitely know now that I am out of the running. I may have had a chance when the successful ap numbers were in the hundreds, but not now (my topic is too interdisciplinary and dare I say it original). The best of luck to everyone though.

:eek:

:mad:

Sweet mother of god, please say this isn't true... Can you let us know where you heard this, or at least back up your claim in some way? I'm screwed too, if this is the case, mine is kind of interdisciplinary too.

I'm going to ring the IRCHSS now to see if they can confirm or deny this. Christ...

@Lord Octane - there's no such thing as a level playing field, the game is always rigged. Haven't you watched The Wire?

Mr dissidence

Howyamissus wrote: »

Hey Mr Dissidence,
Where did you get this number of '22' successful applicants? This sounds like a huge cut and a little unbelievable to me. Please be very careful about throwing unsubstantiated figures around as there are a lot of people (including myself) who are anxiously awaiting a response. We are pessimistic enough -- so if you reference such figures, please substantiate them

Obviously I can't tell you where I received that figure. I am sorry for any distress my previous post has caused you, but as I relayed I have it on 'good authority' that a dramatic slash in funding has taken place and that the figure for successful projects will be about 20 or 30 this year. I really don't find this surprising considering the recent cut-backs and global economic downturn. Again, I am sorry if my post caused distress. I would not have recklessly posted such a figure if I didn't have pretty solid info surrounding the ap process (info that has come from a senior level). I am in the same position as yourself, and wish you all the best.

Howyamissus

Mr dissidence wrote: »

Dear all,

I have it on good authority that the budget for this year's round of postgrad scholarships has been dramatically attenuated. Instead of last year's healthy 152, this year's successful applicant list will look more like 22! I definitely know now that I am out of the running. I may have had a chance when the successful ap numbers were in the hundreds, but not now (my topic is too interdisciplinary and dare I say it original). The best of luck to everyone though.

Hey Mr Dissidence,
Where did you get this number of '22' successful applicants? This sounds like a huge cut and a little unbelievable to me. Please be very careful about throwing unsubstantiated figures around as there are a lot of people (including myself) who are anxiously awaiting a response. We are pessimistic enough -- so if you reference such figures, please substantiate them

LordOctane2009

What I am saying is that all applications are not being judged the same - the IRCHSS say that "Applications to this Scheme will not be assessed - If they exceed the word limit" - yet I have seen applications that more than exceeded the word limit yet they were not only assessed they were successful. I even asked them about it prior to the closing date and I was told I should "do my best" to stay within the word count. It is very simple there either is or there is not a word count limit. I know of applications being turned down on tiny errors yet others are successful even though they should have been rejected from the start.

From my experience your topic rather than your application is more important. I fully expect to see successful applications that will have breached the IRCHSS' own terms and conditions and it is extremely frustrating to know this given all the work it takes to fit within words counts etc. Therefore reading successful applications that are poorly written gives a very clear impression that it is your topic and not application or CV that is being judged. If that is the case then the IRCHSS should be honest and put it up on the website and at the very least they should start sticking to their own rules.

Funding PhDs in the latter years of their work has a very obvious benefit: the successful PhD student must credit the IRCHSS for supporting their project. And of course 4th year students have a better idea of where they are going than a 1st year student but how can a 1st year student hope to get to 4th year if they do not get support from the start. Funding bodies are meant to be encouraging new students not just hard working students that are further on in their work. In many ways by funding a PhD student in the final year of their work, funding bodies get to claim the credit for the student's toil even though they have provided very little support.

The vast majority of the people I know that are doing a PhD are either funded, living at home or receiving support from home. It is extremely difficult to complete a PhD without any support. What is worse is that you will receive no grant and you have to pay fees if you look to do your PhD part time. Self-supporting students are in a catch 22 - sign up for full time with all the expectations of such a course but work a long with it - or take a reduced expectation load in a part time PhD but pay fees and get no grant. It is impossible to win.

I know that there are plenty of people in the same boat as me and what I want is for a level playing pitch for everybody irrespective or your topic or other factors. I don’t think that that is too much to ask for.

Mr dissidence

Dear all,

I have it on good authority that the budget for this year's round of postgrad scholarships has been dramatically attenuated. Instead of last year's healthy 152, this year's successful applicant list will look more like 22! I definitely know now that I am out of the running. I may have had a chance when the successful ap numbers were in the hundreds, but not now (my topic is too interdisciplinary and dare I say it original). The best of luck to everyone though.

Dowdy

Howyamissus wrote: »

Like others on this blog, I also got rejected for the IRCHSS last year. Indeed the only ones who got accepted in my Department were rising to thier 4th year in their PhD. This makes me wonder whether the quality of your application matters that much. I wonder, in an effort to cut costs, will they just give it to those in thier latter years. Did anybody else discover the same pattern over the last few years?

That's a rather troubling idea, and there may be a grain of truth to your assessment, but I wouldn't be entirely sure.

I was informed by a good source, just before applying for this, that the entire budget for this year's IRCHSS postgrad scholarship scheme was already in place, and that there should therefore not be a significant reduction in the number of successful applicants from last year's 152. But, as someone mentioned earlier, with many other previously secured budgets being slashed in the government's frantic attempt to scramble out of the fiscal hole they so gleefully dug, I wouldn't be surprised if this one was cut too.

But I'm not sure if they are giving priority to applicants in their latter years on the basis of cost. We should remember that people who are in their latter years of a Ph.D. have a much better idea of what final form it will take, and will generally present a more coherent and comprehensive application as a result, and this increased quality in their proposals might make their applications more acceptable to the assessors.

As for what was mentioned upthread, about the quality of proposals not being as important as whether their topics are currently fashionable or sexy - the people assessing the proposals are human beings too, academics from various fields who have their own interests, agendas, etc. Many of them are just as prone to the ebb and flow of fashion within their chosen disciplines as anyone else. I don't think there's a systemic emphasis on 'fashionable' or 'sexy' proposals, as such, but merely an aggregation of individual responses, each just as biased and human as anyone else's would be, and this aggregation can tend towards topics currently in vogue.

Ultimately, if your proposal appears to have a lot of merit to one (or three, is it?) of these assessors, then you can expect it to be highly recommended by them. If not, it doesn't mean that the proposal is necessarily rubbish, but it does mean that whoever assessed it didn't think it was worthy of funding. The assessors are all people, using their subjective responses to judge the merits of a proposal (as opposed to your proposal being assessed by some vaguely sinister abstract entity - the IRCHSS - which is bent on injustice and selecting trendier proposals), and if you have written a very strong proposal, with an original idea, and if that idea contains potential for further research in the topic or if it can be applied to other topics, AND........if your proposal happens to fall in the lap of an assessor who can really see its merits, then I think you have a good chance of being recommended.

But now, the remaining question is whether that list of recommended candidates is being disputed by the DES... We'll find out in due course I suppose.

Howyamissus

Like others on this blog, I also got rejected for the IRCHSS last year. Indeed the only ones who got accepted in my Department were rising to thier 4th year in their PhD. This makes me wonder whether the quality of your application matters that much. I wonder, in an effort to cut costs, will they just give it to those in thier latter years. Did anybody else discover the same pattern over the last few years?

LordOctane2009

I have to say it is nice to see that I am not the only one pulling my hair out. In relation to the results I rang the office today and I was given a very honest answer which is that they do not have any idea when the funding will be approved by the Dept of Education – and therefore are no longer giving out provisional dates for the release of the results:mad:.

As regards stressing out about the results – whether I continue studying is completely dependent upon the award of a scholarship. At the moment I am in complete limbo as to what I will do and I cannot make a decision until I get the results.

For the majority of you who will not get funding I only hope that the feedback is better than what I received last year. It was full of contradictions and did not provide me with any ideas of how to improve my application. The other sad fact is that the IRCHSS does not adhere to its own rules. I personally saw successful applications from last year which broke the IRCHSS’ own guidelines in relation to word count amongst other things.

The sad fact is that the IRCHSS, and I am sure they are not alone, do not judge an application solely on its merits. It is very hard to get funded if your topic is not either sexy or in vogue. This is not to seem pessimistic but it is very realistic. Therefore, do not take rejection as a sign that your work is not good or worthy of study.

Best of luck to everybody and here’s hoping we will get an answer soon:)

Dowdy

El Siglo wrote: »

In fairness, I can see your point and don't feel like you have to apologise. However, reading that post it would be a travesty if you don't receive funding in some form or other, considering the work, experience and qualifications you have. Good luck with it anyway.

Cheers, but I don't think it would be such a huge travesty to be honest - I'm sure there are loads of people who have put in as much, or more, work than I have and who still didn't receive funding! Work, experience, and qualifications definitely help, but when it comes down to it the substance of your proposal is what counts most, in my opinion. It could very well be the case that they can see I'm committed, that I've put in a lot of work, that I have am qualified for a Ph.D., but that they just don't think my proposed doctorate is worth spending €48,000 (over three years) on. Who knows.

Good point up there about the elections, I hadn't thought of that, it could quite possibly be playing some part in this. And now they're saying they're hoping to let us know by the end of June? Haha, if I do end up getting a scholarship, and they keep pushing the date further back, it might get to the point where I barely even have time to give my month's notice at work before college!

Feck it, all ya can do is laugh about it at this stage. I'm sure the IRCHSS are as frustrated by this as we are. It's all in the hands of the politicians now. As we know from recent experience, our politicians are competent, generous people, I'm sure they'll sort us out........

El Siglo

Howyamissus wrote: »

It's great that you are able to put it out of your mind. I am finding it very difficult. I rang IRCHSS severl times over the last couple of weeks. Most recently, I rang them last Tuesday. Like they told others they are waiting for the Dept. of Education to sign off on the the list of successful candidates. When I asked for time parameters, they hoped that they would know before the end of the month of June. Of course, I suspect they are making cuts but it just dawned on me that they are waiting until after the elections to sign off on the list -- after all students vote...

Good point, but as I said earlier and perhaps I should elaborate, I applied to IRCSET and was using my experience from that application which was unsuccessful (I was 4.5% off of funding) and threw stuff right up in the air. It is unfortunately a waiting game, and it isn't a fair one at that, it really is a sh*tty situation to be put in. It is difficult to put it out of ones mind but in some respects there aren't many other options available, however dwelling on it will make you depressed and that's not going to help the situation. What I would suggest, next to building up the cv with further postgraduate qualifications (which many of you do not need) is looking abroad to the UK, US etc... and applying for a PhD and funding from one of these institutions, it's not much better but there tends to be more opportunities of funding available. I know this isn't much help but it's all I can say at the moment, hopefully there should be some news by next week.

Howyamissus

It's great that you are able to put it out of your mind. I am finding it very difficult. I rang IRCHSS severl times over the last couple of weeks. Most recently, I rang them last Tuesday. Like they told others they are waiting for the Dept. of Education to sign off on the the list of successful candidates. When I asked for time parameters, they hoped that they would know before the end of the month of June. Of course, I suspect they are making cuts but it just dawned on me that they are waiting until after the elections to sign off on the list -- after all students vote...

El Siglo

Dowdy wrote: »

Fair enough, but I did my MA three years ago and have been working in an office since then. For a year and a half, in my spare time, I've been conducting research for my proposed Ph.D. and if I don't get any funding this year then I'll have to remain in this job because there's no way I could afford to do a doctorate without being funded.

So, to summarise - I am of course trying to forget about this and I am, as always, assuming the worst, but if I don't get funded then all of the time and effort I put in over the last eighteen months, and all the money I'm putting into attending a conference to read a paper, will have essentially been for nothing.

I've applied for a fellowship with NUI Galway too, and I barely missed out on one of those last year, so I still have some chance of funding if I miss the IRCHSS one, but you'll have to excuse me if I'm very anxious about this because if neither of these come through then I'm probably looking at a life of meaningless office work rather than a possible future in academia. I'm very grateful that I have a job at the moment, but the thoughts of building a career in a corporate monstrosity fills me with existential dread...

But feck it, enough about me, many of you are in similar positions, or worse. There's nowt we can do about this now but sit back and wait. Hopefully we'll know in a week or two, one way or another.

In fairness, I can see your point and don't feel like you have to apologise. However, reading that post it would be a travesty if you don't receive funding in some form or other, considering the work, experience and qualifications you have. Good luck with it anyway.

Dowdy

El Siglo wrote: »

That's the best advice so far, with the way funding has gone it is better to assume you have got nothing in order to start contingency planning. I was applying to IRCSET last time around and really the funding is a matter of how much qualifications and experience you have, in saying that it might be beneficial if you don't have an MA but are on for a really good degree to apply for an MA at least if you don't get funding you'll get a chance to do some of the research related to your PhD application. This is just one way I know off that can improve your chances next time around. Keep an eye out also for the feedback they give you it might be a month or two after your application, it's a really good source of where you fell down etc...

Fair enough, but I did my MA three years ago and have been working in an office since then. For a year and a half, in my spare time, I've been conducting research for my proposed Ph.D. and if I don't get any funding this year then I'll have to remain in this job because there's no way I could afford to do a doctorate without being funded.

So, to summarise - I am of course trying to forget about this and I am, as always, assuming the worst, but if I don't get funded then all of the time and effort I put in over the last eighteen months, and all the money I'm putting into attending a conference to read a paper, will have essentially been for nothing.

I've applied for a fellowship with NUI Galway too, and I barely missed out on one of those last year, so I still have some chance of funding if I miss the IRCHSS one, but you'll have to excuse me if I'm very anxious about this because if neither of these come through then I'm probably looking at a life of meaningless office work rather than a possible future in academia. I'm very grateful that I have a job at the moment, but the thoughts of building a career in a corporate monstrosity fills me with existential dread...

But feck it, enough about me, many of you are in similar positions, or worse. There's nowt we can do about this now but sit back and wait. Hopefully we'll know in a week or two, one way or another.

El Siglo

Ruki wrote: »

Has anyone been listening to the news in the past few months? Or is everyone so far gone that all they hear are postmen's footsteps? A list of our thesis titles would look like gobbledigook to a politician who wants to know precisely what bang they'll end up getting for their buck. They did cut funding to kids with special needs, and I'm not sure what one of those kids' parents would make of my proposal balanced against that.

It seems the IRCHSS is negotiating with the politicos, and every day prob means another chance for one of us to get a year's peace & quiet. By all means, let off some steam; just following this discussion & its updates has been a great help for me. But bear in mind that the delay probably means a battle is raging on our behalf.

Having said that, the plain truth is that the majority of us aren't going to get anything. Best policy in the weeks left to the results: assume you haven't got it. Sorry, but this is getting nuts. Personally I'm finding it easier to get stuck into research now that I've convinced myself I'll have to potter on as I am.

Best of luck and thanks for all the info.

That's the best advice so far, with the way funding has gone it is better to assume you have got nothing in order to start contingency planning. I was applying to IRCSET last time around and really the funding is a matter of how much qualifications and experience you have, in saying that it might be beneficial if you don't have an MA but are on for a really good degree to apply for an MA at least if you don't get funding you'll get a chance to do some of the research related to your PhD application. This is just one way I know off that can improve your chances next time around. Keep an eye out also for the feedback they give you it might be a month or two after your application, it's a really good source of where you fell down etc...

pieye

Wow, told us :rolleyes:

Ruki

Has anyone been listening to the news in the past few months? Or is everyone so far gone that all they hear are postmen's footsteps? A list of our thesis titles would look like gobbledigook to a politician who wants to know precisely what bang they'll end up getting for their buck. They did cut funding to kids with special needs, and I'm not sure what one of those kids' parents would make of my proposal balanced against that.

It seems the IRCHSS is negotiating with the politicos, and every day prob means another chance for one of us to get a year's peace & quiet. By all means, let off some steam; just following this discussion & its updates has been a great help for me. But bear in mind that the delay probably means a battle is raging on our behalf.

Having said that, the plain truth is that the majority of us aren't going to get anything. Best policy in the weeks left to the results: assume you haven't got it. Sorry, but this is getting nuts. Personally I'm finding it easier to get stuck into research now that I've convinced myself I'll have to potter on as I am.

Best of luck and thanks for all the info.

the-jojo-axiom

snip

Red Alert

Guys can we keep it legal please (as we've been doing so far) - it's against boards.ie rules to threaten legal action. One poster made reference to it without doing it, so I've removed it.