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UCD vs TCD

Extrasupervery

I'm trying to fill in this damned CAO form and I'm between the two colleges... I know the courses I'm thinking of backwards, I'd just like to hear what you people think of the places themselves?

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Riamfada

Trinity would be more prestigious and have more high brow events. UCD is a little more "party-town". Depends what you want from a college.

fillmore jive

Yeha Trinity seems to be more formal than UCD, UCD seems more relaxed about the whole college thing. Both have their advantages depending on the subject area, but as a whole Trinity would be more prestigious, as said above. As a rule of thumb, go to Trinity for the arts based subjects, while UCD for more research based subjects.

Riamfada

fillmore jive wrote: »

As a rule of thumb, go to Trinity for the arts based subjects, while UCD for more research based subjects.

Some of their arts subjects are not quite as good but yes UCD is much more graduate reseach orientated

Boston

Thats a silly thing to say. There are several research centers in trinity. In some cases you'll have centers in both universities doing similar work, however thats not usually the case as most of this research is government funded. The idea that you can't do research or that your research opportunities will be limited in trinity is ridiculous, they'll just be different. This is probably why you think research isn't big in trinity, since trinity probably isn't involved in your field. Tbh, I've seen very few papers from UCD in my area, it's hardly surprising.

Leaving that a side, it doesn't make sense to talk about research when commenting on an undergraduate degree choice as that way down the road and you can make the choice when you have your degree.

fillmore jive

Boston wrote: »

Thats a silly thing to say. There are several research centers in trinity. In some cases you'll have centers in both universities doing similar work, however thats not usually the case as most of this research is government funded. The idea that you can't do research or that your research opportunities will be limited in trinity is ridiculous, they'll just be different. This is probably why you think research isn't big in trinity, since trinity probably isn't involved in your field. Tbh, I've seen very few papers from UCD in my area, it's hardly surprising.

Leaving that a side, it doesn't make sense to talk about research when commenting on an undergraduate degree choice as that way down the road and you can make the choice when you have your degree.

I didn't say a thing about which uni had the better research oppurtunities, all I said was that, as a rule of thumb, UCD would be better for the research-based subjects. From what I've heard, engineering in Trinity seems to a very bad reputation, and you would have an advantage doing general science in UCD as you can specialize in around 25 subject areas, whereas Trinity general science offers only around 15 majors. This has absolutely nothing to do with what research centres are in both colleges.

Boston

fillmore jive wrote: »

I didn't say a thing about which uni had the better research oppurtunities, all I said was that, as a rule of thumb, UCD would be better for the research-based subjects.

Grimes post put a more definite slant on it.

From what I've heard, engineering in Trinity seems to a very bad reputation, and you would have an advantage doing general science in UCD as you can specialize in around 25 subject areas, whereas Trinity general science offers only around 15 majors. This has absolutely nothing to do with what research centres are in both colleges.

Thats great if one of those areas is likely to be one you want to specialise in. Engineering in trinity is pretty appalling. Elec and Civil and a joke, however mech has a very good reputation and the department is very active in biomech research area.

Riamfada

Woo Boston chillax. I stand corrected. I just said UCD is more graduate research orientated. More of a slight on UCD's udnergraduate programs rather than on Trinity's postgraduate research. But whatever the case, OP either college is excellent and you go for the course rather than the college.

Extrasupervery

Yeah that's a good point, and I'm going more for arts subjects and have "decided" on similar courses in both colleges. I'm just not sure from here on in. Why not flip a coin...

dyl10

Maybe tell us which course and some of us may have experience in those subjects in UCD or Trinity?

The whole UCD v Trinity discussion is always very subjective and in a lot of working fields it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

In case you didn't know, Trinity was ranked about 60 places above UCD in the world university rankings.

If you really can't decide, perhaps just go to the most accessible college?
Nothing like a two hour bus journey to make you drop out of first year college.

Extrasupervery

Phil Pol at Trinity vs some form of arts at UCD...I do change my mind way too often though. Neither are accesible, I'll be moving! The fact that arts at UCD is a year less than Trinity sounds good to me...

Boston

Extrasupervery wrote: »

Phil Pol at Trinity vs some form of arts at UCD...I do change my mind way too often though. Neither are accesible, I'll be moving! The fact that arts at UCD is a year less than Trinity sounds good to me...

Are you sure you come out with the same level of degree?

Extrasupervery

o_____O

Riamfada

If you are doing Philosophy and Pol in UCD I seriously suggest you get yourself involved heavily in some extra cirricular activities. Unless the economy really picks up I wouldnt plan on getting anything out of arts . (Trust me Ive done it for four years). Its the other stuff you do in college that gets the Arts students jobs when they finish.

Extrasupervery

Sound advice ^ thanks

drzhivago

Extrasupervery wrote: »

I'm trying to fill in this damned CAO form and I'm between the two colleges... I know the courses I'm thinking of backwards, I'd just like to hear what you people think of the places themselves?

First consideration what course do you want to

Second do you live very close to either college

Third will you have a social circle already in either one

For an undergrad degree, if both offer the same there is little difference

For postgrads it depends on the individual you will be doing the postgrad with and not specifically the college

Extrasupervery

It's an undergrad, I live on the opposite end of the country, and know no one going to either college

i-digress

After three years you get an ordinary degree, after four years an honours degree. So you do get something for that extra year. If you go on to postgrad with an honours degree you can sometimes skip doing an MA and start your PhD straight away. If after three years in Trinity you don't want to do your fourth year you can walk away with an ordinary degree instead.

Boston

i-digress wrote: »

After three years you get an ordinary degree, after four years an honours degree. So you do get something for that extra year. If you go on to postgrad with an honours degree you can sometimes skip doing an MA and start your PhD straight away. If after three years in Trinity you don't want to do your fourth year you can walk away with an ordinary degree instead.

Depends on the course.

i-digress

I think this is the case for all arts courses, but yeah it would be wise to check it first. I wouldn't pick a Trinity course on the plan of just completing three, but its a handy option to have.

El Siglo

Philosophy and Politics, good luck getting a job, I hear the philosophy; factory SR Marxists are letting off more staff this week!;)

If you're doing arts, it's relative where you do it (finished an arts degree and it really makes no odds). However you should weigh up certain options:
UCD: 2 semesters (like school), 2 sets of exams, no 'finals' (all exams in 2nd and 3rd year count towards degree equally), 3 years of a degree.

TCD: 3 semesters, mostly (not all the times) exams are at the end of the year (so that can be tough), I think 3rd and 4th year are split in some way to count towards your degree, 4 years of a degree.

Personally, I'd take the UCD option, granted it's not as prestigious, old, as world renowned as TCD, but after studying the same sh*t for 3 f*cking years, you're going to want to finish at the end of it, you'll get sick of it after a while! Trinity is grand as well because you can live anywhere you want in the city (i.e. cheap areas) and still be able to walk in within 20 minutes, whereas UCD you pay an arm and a leg for accommodation, it's outside the city centre, bit of a trek on the bus etc...
My advice would be, whatever you choose, get good at it quickly, get really good at it, aim for 1sts (i.e. above 70%) all the time, this pays if you go to UCD as there are a large number of eegits who don't know what they're studying and will pay for help, it also might work the same in TCD I'm not sure, but either way, coming out with a 1st class honours degree from each place is pretty good and will jump off the cv.
God luck with whatever you choose in the end!

Pride Fighter

The reason I picked UCD was that the degree was 3 years and not 4. I more or less have my BA, after 4 years I will have my MA, whereas in Trinners you would have the masters after 5.

Both are good, UCD is excellent for arts, particularly for certain subjects. Avoid history and English in UCD, there are over 500 per class. Stick to the smaller departments in UCD, Philosophy, Greek and Roman Civilization, Art History, Archaeology etc.

Sabbath Lily

Extrasupervery wrote: »

I'm trying to fill in this damned CAO form and I'm between the two colleges... I know the courses I'm thinking of backwards, I'd just like to hear what you people think of the places themselves?

I did my undergrad at Trinity, absolutely loved every minute of it. Didn't mind the extra year at all, was glad of the chance to stay longer. It depends on what you want to do, but generally the extra year does stand to you, certainly my friends who did similar courses in UCD wouldn't be as knowledgeable about my field. That's not a criticism of them - just the fact is, you can't fit the same content on a four-year course into a three-year one.

I was in the Faculty of Arts and Humanities and I'd recommend it to anyone - Trinity generally competes better than UCD in this area, but there are exceptions. It's generally accepted that Irish in UCD, for example, is of a far higher standard. For one thing, the funding and weight behind the Department there is considerably higher. Have a look out for that kind of thing, it really affects the quality of a course, how many options they are able to offer to students.

Trinity used to have 3 terms but all courses will be modularised as of next year, and the entire format is being changed, so don't take what most people say here about the year's format as verbatim. Have a look at their website if you want the final word.

Have a look at the webpages of the departments that you're interested in, for both colleges - not just the spiel aimed at potential students. Find out how they interact with students once they're within the department. Talk to anyone you know who's done subjects you're interested in. Also, once you get to college, get involved - in the SU, student media, run for election of society committees. (Look at society websites too for an idea.) I did all of these things to an extent and they really stand to you in the workplace. Whether I can give a detailed account of the history of Ancient Greece or the thought processes of Hegel, is never going to be relevant to my employer. But if I'm articulate, can piece together an argument and analyse information accurately, can work as a team player and to specific deadlines - that is what every well balanced Arts graduate should offer. Not so many of them do though. So use your years wisely!

bnt

Boston wrote: »

Depends on the course.

Yep - if it's Honours, it says that and/or "Level 8". You need one of those to go on to a Masters, but it's not automatically tied to the number of years, it's about the level of knowledge. The OP didn't say "Arts", so you can't assume that that's the plan.

For example, UCD Structural Engineering with Architecture (DN078) is a 3-year Honours degree. Then, the relevant Master of Engineering is 2 years, so it's still 5 years total. In a couple of years a Master's will be the requirement for becoming a Chartered Engineer. (This 3+2 structure is going to become more common, especially in technical subjects - it's called the Bologna Process.)

How is this possible? It's because this is a focused degree, not an "Omnibus". There is no choice of major, and you get fewer electives (only 4 in 3 years), so you don't get to spread yourself out as much. The points requirements are pretty steep, too.

C.D.

bnt wrote: »

Yep - if it's Honours, it says that and/or "Level 8". You need one of those to go on to a Masters, but it's not automatically tied to the number of years, it's about the level of knowledge. The OP didn't say "Arts", so you can't assume that that's the plan.

For example, UCD Structural Engineering with Architecture (DN078) is a 3-year Honours degree. Then, the relevant Master of Engineering is 2 years, so it's still 5 years total. In a couple of years a Master's will be the requirement for becoming a Chartered Engineer. (This 3+2 structure is going to become more common, especially in technical subjects - it's called the Bologna Process.)

How is this possible? It's because this is a focused degree, not an "Omnibus". There is no choice of major, and you get fewer electives (only 4 in 3 years), so you don't get to spread yourself out as much. The points requirements are pretty steep, too.

It is unlikely this will be actually be implemented. I was speaking with the head of the engineering department and two engineering course heads of one of the big three universities a few months ago- essentially the government has not agree to fund the final "masters" year under the free fees initiative (for the universities that would be adding a year to their courses) and there is widespread acknowledgement that in the current climate many people would opt for a different course thanhaving to pay for that extra year, leading to a dramatic drop in the already poor numbers taking up engineering. The key issue is how fees are reformed- this will decide how the final year/s can be funded.

While I think the standard is lower here than on the continent, who would want to do 5 years to become a "professional" who does not even have a protected title? Ridiculous that the guy who fixes a washing machine is an "engineer" after attending a two day course. (yes I understand MIEI, CIEI etc, but nobody outside of the engineering world does). Four years is dough for me thanks!

bnt

A couple of points:
- I don't know what you mean by "adding a year". The total time for Bachelor's + Master's is still 5 years but the split is changing from 4+1 to 3+2. Not across the board straight away, but eventually, as a Europe-wide strategy.
- I didn't say anything about funding before. When I spoke to staff, I also came away with the impression that a Master's will remain unfunded in the foreseeable future. The staff I spoke to were not happy about that, in the light of the above: it means postgrads will have to fund two years instead of one, and they were lobbying to get the funding rules changed. Given the direction the govt. is heading, I don't expect this to change, and I'm looking at taking a 2y Master's in the Netherlands (TU Delft) for a fraction of the fees.
- "Engineer" might be generic these days, but "Chartered Engineer", "Associate Engineer" and "Engineering Technician" are protected, and only conferred by an accreditation body such as Engineers Ireland. Chartered status is not granted lightly - see that site for details. Anyone who matters knows the difference!

Rebelheart

Extrasupervery wrote: »

I'm trying to fill in this damned CAO form and I'm between the two colleges... I know the courses I'm thinking of backwards, I'd just like to hear what you people think of the places themselves?

Trinity doesn't have a GAA pitch, but it has some fine cricket and rugby ones. It is a place where tradition prevails through the centuries.

PS: Apparently the natives are allowed play their barbarous sports somewhere around Ballymun. Proper order!

Boston

Rebelheart wrote: »

Trinity doesn't have a GAA pitch, but it has some fine cricket and rugby ones. It is a place where tradition prevails through the centuries.

PS: Apparently the natives are allowed play their barbarous sports somewhere around Ballymun. Proper order!

Meh.

bnt wrote: »

A couple of points:
- I don't know what you mean by "adding a year". The total time for Bachelor's + Master's is still 5 years but the split is changing from 4+1 to 3+2. Not across the board straight away, but eventually, as a Europe-wide strategy.
- I didn't say anything about funding before. When I spoke to staff, I also came away with the impression that a Master's will remain unfunded in the foreseeable future. The staff I spoke to were not happy about that, in the light of the above: it means postgrads will have to fund two years instead of one, and they were lobbying to get the funding rules changed. Given the direction the govt. is heading, I don't expect this to change, and I'm looking at taking a 2y Master's in the Netherlands (TU Delft) for a fraction of the fees.
- "Engineer" might be generic these days, but "Chartered Engineer", "Associate Engineer" and "Engineering Technician" are protected, and only conferred by an accreditation body such as Engineers Ireland. Chartered status is not granted lightly - see that site for details. Anyone who matters knows the difference!

The 3+2 system will come into place in both UCD and Trinity and probably the other universities as well, the government has made a commitment at a European level to it. The Funding issue still hasn't been resolved, however with the likelihood of fees being re-introduced in the next 3 years, I doubt it will matter as everyone will be paying for every year.