Local elections

dodgyme wrote: »

By contrast I have contacted Joan Burton on occasion and she has been very responsive (and helped) to the community issues that I was on about. Also the labour party were the only ones to call to my door in 7 years. I am not a member of the labour party but I do like Joan and she is miles ahead of the other bunch for littlepace/ongar.

Both the sitting labour T.D. and co counselor have been really good over the last few years of being about and contactable I have to say ime, I have had 3 different addresses over the last 12 years of living in the d15 area and they have been at them all.

Joan Burton actually has an account here and has posted in this forum in the past but I don't know how active the account is currently.

Powerhouse wrote: »

1) In other words unless you can get the informaton sitting at your PC you don't want to know?

Nope but I should be able to access it here.

Powerhouse wrote: »

2) Candidates visiting the homes of 50,000 people for one-on-one interviews with many people whose voting intentions will be decided in adavnce of anything the candidate says is not the way to provide 'explanations'.

and what about those who are undecided?
Who have only recently moved into the area like a the residents who post in the barnwell/hansfield/ongar thread?
There are votes which should be courted, unless of course you'd rather see the % of people exercise their vote stay at shocking low levels and only be those who are very invested in the process, which is exclusionary.

Powerhouse wrote: »

Public meetings and media well-established fora for discussing such matters. Many of these have been advertised on lamp-posts in recent weeks.

and people have busy lives, work shift work, have kids and are not always free to attend such meetings, it should not be a case of if you cant' go to the meetings tough luck.

Thaedydal wrote: »

1) I agree we have the responsibility to inform ourselves but the channels by which we do that have to change, we do live in a more information interactive society esp those of us who are online and take part in such sits as this one, but yet as we can see getting a hold of the right and accurate information online is stupidly hard, which is why threads like that can be good resources for all of us.

2) Sorry I disagree, yes people should be more aware and active but the candidates and other elected officials do owe them explanations, they are meant to be working for us and representing us.

1) In other words unless you can get the informaton sitting at your PC you don't want to know?

2) Candidates visiting the homes of 50,000 people for one-on-one interviews with many people whose voting intentions will be decided in adavnce of anything the candidate says is not the way to provide 'explanations'.

Public meetings and media well-established fora for discussing such matters. Many of these have been advertised on lamp-posts in recent weeks.

dodgyme

Gaspode wrote: »

But surely Leo was elected because of all the great work he was doing for the local community, and not because he spent a fortune on publicity.
.

what great work. can you please give examples? I have had contact with him on issues and got very little headway. I also went to a meeting where they thought I was a spy for another party. He is good on TV but not much of a presence in person.

By contrast I have contacted Joan Burton on occasion and she has been very responsive (and helped) to the community issues that I was on about. Also the labour party were the only ones to call to my door in 7 years. I am not a member of the labour party but I do like Joan and she is miles ahead of the other bunch for littlepace/ongar.

Powerhouse wrote: »

1) Wow! You were in the Dáil bar! Bully for you. (That's twice you have mentioned the trip to Leinster House - we get the message)

It was fun and intresting I'd never been before and it's made me take more of an interest in this round of elections.

Powerhouse wrote: »

I have no problem with the average Joe (of which I consider myself one - I am not a 'polictio hobbyist' to use your term) discussing the local election. What I have a difficulty with is the proposition that politicial candidates should be required the visit and undergo interviews at the houses of all 50k of the electorate in the two wards.

Well for a lot of people that is what elections means to them the candidates being out and about.

Powerhouse wrote: »

Along with the right to vote comes the responsibility to inform yourself, and ensure that you use the vote and use it effectively and knowledgably. Let us at least be honest about one thing - what puts the 'average voter' off getting involved is generally a lack of interest. It's all too mundane for them.

I agree we have the responsibility to inform ourselves but the channels by which we do that have to change, we do live in a more information interactive society esp those of us who are online and take part in such sits as this one, but yet as we can see getting a hold of the right and accurate information online is stupidly hard, which is why threads like that can be good resources for all of us.

Powerhouse wrote: »

I have no difficulty with that at one level. It is part of human nature and there's more people like that out there than there is of the more active and engaged citizenry. What I do have a difficulty with is such people sticking their head above the parapet once every few years when politics - courtesy of election posters - has a higher public profile such that it comes under the radar of these people, and behaving as if the world suddenly owes them an explanation for everything.

Sorry I disagree, yes people should be more aware and active but the candidates and other elected officials do owe them explanations, they are meant to be working for us and representing us.

Thaedydal wrote: »

1) politico hobbyists like yourself are why I don't post in the politics forum and what turns the average voter who's vote is as good as yours off getting invovled, funnily enough a topic which came up last night when I was in the Dáil bar.

I was hoping that this thread would be for the average joe soaps to discuss and share info, and it that is too below you well then I am sure the politics mods will be happy to have you in their forum.

2) I certainly understand the wanting to have candidates on my doorstep so I can ask the questions which are not being asked by the local papers.

1) Wow! You were in the Dáil bar! Bully for you. (That's twice you have mentioned the trip to Leinster House - we get the message)

I have no problem with the average Joe (of which I consider myself one - I am not a 'polictio hobbyist' to use your term) discussing the local election. What I have a difficulty with is the proposition that politicial candidates should be required the visit and undergo interviews at the houses of all 50k of the electorate in the two wards.

Along with the right to vote comes the responsibility to inform yourself, and ensure that you use the vote and use it effectively and knowledgably. Let us at least be honest about one thing - what puts the 'average voter' off getting involved is generally a lack of interest. It's all too mundane for them.

It's why people support Man Yoo rather than Southampton. People like things put on a plate for them. You can be an avid supporter of the former from the armchair. In the case of the latter it take more effort. These 'average' people are too uninterested or lazy to inform themselves consistently. It's the old Sybil Fawlty 'has he been on the telly' view of the world.

I have no difficulty with that at one level. It is part of human nature and there's more people like that out there than there is of the more active and engaged citizenry. What I do have a difficulty with is such people sticking their head above the parapet once every few years when politics - courtesy of election posters - has a higher public profile such that it comes under the radar of these people, and behaving as if the world suddenly owes them an explanation for everything.

2) Which questions might they be?

Gaspode wrote: »

Yes, I deliberately did make that connection, it seems the irony of my comment was lost on you.

Ah come on will you? The guy went from 380 votes in 1999 to 6,000 in 2007. It was an increase of epic proportions. It's a pity that you adduce a view to explain it and then when challenged decide hide behind retrospective irony, because there is an interesting treatise into human nature in that whole vote increase.

I am of course being ironic too.:rolleyes:

ciaran76 wrote: »

For my area I haven't seen any poster for Gerry Lynam or Simon Herbert.

I am aware of Gerry as he has ben around for ages and I remember when he was an Independant canidate a few years ago. Simon Herbert is a new name to me.

I think Mulhuddart will be an intresting count.

Oh I just remembered there is another person running but I don' remember his name right now he is Independant in Mulhuddart. Will get back when I remember it.:o

Edit :I walked out to look at his poster...Ignatius Okafor

Both of the first two candidates you mentioned are not now running.

athtrasna

Hasn't Gerry Lynam pulled out? I'm sure there was something in the Community Voice about it. Ill Heath I think?

ciaran76

For my area I haven't seen any poster for Gerry Lynam or Simon Herbert.

I am aware of Gerry as he has ben around for ages and I remember when he was an Independant canidate a few years ago. Simon Herbert is a new name to me.

I think Mulhuddart will be an intresting count.

Oh I just remembered there is another person running but I don' remember his name right now he is Independant in Mulhuddart. Will get back when I remember it.:o

Edit :I walked out to look at his poster...Ignatius Okafor

Fingal - Mulhuddart

Coppinger, Ruth The Socialist Party
Dennison, Kieran Fine Gael
Donnelly, Paul Sinn Féin
Herbert, Simon Green Party
Keane, Denis The Socialist Party
Lynam, Gerry Fianna Fáil
McGuinness, David Fianna Fáil
Moran, Niamh Fianna Fáil
Nulty, Patrick The Labour Party
O'Donovan, Michael The Labour Party
Ogunsina, Adeola Fine Gael
Sulyman Olafimihan, Idowu Fianna Fáil

Fingal - Castleknock

Hamill, Peggy The Labour Party
Loftus, Eithne Fine Gael
Mahony, Howard Fianna Fáil
Maples, Charlie Sinn Féin
Murray, Mags Fianna Fáil
O'Gorman, Roderic Green Party

Ireland - Dublin MEP

Byrne1, Eibhlin Fianna Fáil
De Burca, Deirdre Green Party
De Rossa, Proinsias The Labour Party
Higgins, Joe The Socialist Party
McDonald, Mary Lou Sinn Féin
McKenna, Patricia Independent
Mitchell, Gay Fine Gael
Ryan, Eoin Fianna Fáil
Simons, Caroline Libertas
Sweeney, Emmanuel Independent

Grudaire

athtrasna wrote: »

Back to the locals in Castleknock...anyone know what Independents are running?

Apparently none: MiCandidate.ie

That's the best list I can find. P.ie has a 40 page epic thread - which seems a bit too much effort

So far Roderic is the only one to brave my doorstep!

Powerhouse wrote: »

2) Are you not in danger of making a tenuous link between cause (nebulous, difficult-to-define work done "for the local community") and effect (votes) here yourself? If such a provable link exists why do you think he bothered putting up posters at all? Why do you think he waded through traffic jams locally handing out promotional leaflets if it was all to no effect? Is there not very strong evidence in this thread that many people simply do not keep up to speed with the local political scene and have in fact no idea who's doing what locally? They get their impressions from such publicity.

Yes, I deliberately did make that connection, it seems the irony of my comment was lost on you.

Powerhouse wrote: »

As Winston Churchill said, the strongest argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. Ne'er was a truer word said.

Just as well the above average voter is here to save us all from our own apparent ignorance.

athtrasna

Back to the locals in Castleknock...anyone know what Independents are running?

politico hobbyists like yourself are why I don't post in the politics forum and what turns the average voter who's vote is as good as yours off getting invovled, funnily enough a topic which came up last night when I was in the Dáil bar.

I was hoping that this thread would be for the average joe soaps to discuss and share info, and it that is too below you
well then I am sure the politics mods will be happy to have you in their forum.

I certainly understand the wanting to have candidates on my doorstep so I can ask the questions which are not being asked by the local papers.

Thaedydal wrote: »

1) And how great is that you have the time to attend such things, clearly you have an avid interest not everyone does.

2) Personally I will not look down my nose at someone who is looking to start that process, and I am sure if you were to list the up coming meetings he would be grateful, also any links you have to the agendas and profiles of the candidates, as I know more then you do stuff is petty and not helpful and the better informed people are the better choices they make and includes in using their vote.

1) Ah yes, the old "I could do it too only I'm too busy" line. That's never far away.

2) Don't delude yourself that this guy is starting any "process". Some people have always made sure they are politically informed, others will rear their heads at election time and come over all marginalised and offended when they are not given a dummies' guide to the whole thing.

But please spare us the "he's trying to start a process" line, as if he is trying to reinvent democracy but announcing that he's waiting with bated breath at home to interview all the candidates. Every candidate has been in the local newspaper and at public meetings in recent weeks.

Gaspode wrote: »

1) Assured by whom?

2) But surely Leo was elected because of all the great work he was doing for the local community, and not because he spent a fortune on publicity. You're making a tenuous link there between an effect and a single cause. Perhaps you 100% right and his poster campaing had an effect, but I'd like to think politicians get elected for something more useful than a good profile. Otherwise we could just have Simon Cowell and his cronies set up some popularity gameshow to elect politicians!

1) Assured by a wealth of study of the accepted correlation and causation of recognition of a person/product/brand name and its subsequent success. This is hardly an earth-shattering breakthrough. Incredibly clever people are willing to spend fortunes on building recognition of their brand. You don't seriously think they do it because they like chucking money away do you? There is a mountain of material out there on the psychology of advertising, brand recognition and public relations - you should check it out.

2) Are you not in danger of making a tenuous link between cause (nebulous, difficult-to-define work done "for the local community") and effect (votes) here yourself? If such a provable link exists why do you think he bothered putting up posters at all? Why do you think he waded through traffic jams locally handing out promotional leaflets if it was all to no effect? Is there not very strong evidence in this thread that many people simply do not keep up to speed with the local political scene and have in fact no idea who's doing what locally? They get their impressions from such publicity.

Geroge Lee will be elected in Dublin South. What has he done politically? Squat. But he has had an unrivalled stab at publicity over the past few years. He will be elected on the basis of that irrespective of his lack of political track record.

And yes, the idea that a mere citizen like myself who has to get off his backside and inform himself, and those who wobble under the weight of their egos at home waiting for candidates to come to them so they can interview them, have the same voting power is called democracy. John Dunn's book on the subject is highly recommended.

But its greatest strength is also its greatest weakness. As Winston Churchill said, the strongest argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. Ne'er was a truer word said.

cymro wrote: »

How come Mountview is in the Castleknock ward now??????D

Dont remind me, at the last election we found out we'd been moved to whatever constituency is Finglas in when the polling cards arrived just before polling day! Not amused, dont know any of the politicians there.

oh and if you are not sure if you are on the register here is how to check quickly.

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/ereg/

and if you are missing you have until the 18th of May to fix that.

Powerhouse wrote: »

Christ, pass me the sick-bucket. I have read what these politicians are saying. I have attended public meetings they have held on a variety of issues. I attended a public questions and answers session at the civic offices with the candidates last week - and you are implying that this other guy values his vote more than me? (And yes, yes, you didn't say it but that is the clear implication of what you said)

Thats nice how did you find out about them?
And how great is that you have the time to attend such things, clearly you have an avid interest not everyone does.

Powerhouse wrote: »

If he values his vote then he could get off his arse and inform himself instead of expecting election candidates to turn up at the doors of an electorate of 50,000 and be personally interviewed by them all.

I see him asking why they haven't been on his doorstep as the start of him questioning and seeking out such info and I for am not going to knock a person who is starting to seek out engagement to inform themselves and he is so right about the disparity in estates visited and most people expect
politicians to door step them esp if that is what they have clearly grown up with.

Powerhouse wrote: »

Nobody is questioning anyone's entitlement to find out about candidates. What I have an issue with is lazy people who expect to be spoon-fed. He doesn't remotely value his vote. If he did he'd inform himself.

Some times I really wish I could away with a mega snarky reply.

Personally I will not look down my nose at someone who is looking to start that process, and I am sure if you were to list the up coming meetings he would be grateful, also any links you have to the agendas and profiles of the candidates, as I know more then you do stuff is petty and not helpful
and the better informed people are the better choices they make and includes
in using their vote.

cymro wrote: »

These posters on every lampost is getting out of hand these days.

I agree, what a pointless waste of money & time, and what an eyesore.

cymro wrote: »

Has anyone voted for someone just because they saw them on a poster?
.

Not I. Or at least I dont think so. Sometimes I give lower choice votes to nobodys just to make sure someone I dont want in doesnt get my vote. Maybe those 'nobodys' were subconsciously imprinted in my brain from posters? Who knows.

cymro wrote: »

My vote woud go to the candidate who didnt put up any posters.

Maybe they put up posters but you didnt see them, or like me you just stop noticing them after a couple of days.

Powerhouse wrote: »

You can be assured that people have voted for someone because they saw them on a poster.

Assured by whom?

Powerhouse wrote: »

Why on earth do you think political parties spend money on these things?

Who knows, maybe because they've always done it?

Powerhouse wrote: »

Leo Varadkar spent an absolute fortune in the last election. He had posters up at the bus shelters for weeks on end which cost him thousands upon thousands. He spent far more than either of the other two elected candidates elected on posters. This was a lesson he learned the hard way. In the local election in 1999 Varadkar polled 380 votes. Five years later his vote increased by 1,200% when he polled the highest vote in the country and followed it up with nearly 7,000 votes in the General Election. He certainly saw the value in posters. Don't be codding yourself that this stuff doesn't matter.

But surely Leo was elected because of all the great work he was doing for the local community, and not because he spent a fortune on publicity. You're making a tenuous link there between an effect and a single cause. Perhaps you 100% right and his poster campaing had an effect, but I'd like to think politicians get elected for something more useful than a good profile. Otherwise we could just have Simon Cowell and his cronies set up some popularity gameshow to elect politicians!

ciaran76 wrote: »

I don't like the posters on every lampost from Ongar to Littlepace it is unreal.

They really are an eyesore (IMO).

Agreed.

Powerhouse wrote: »

It's hard to believe reading this that your vote is worth only the same as mine!

Yeah weird isnt it? I believe its called democracy.

Right folks, some posts here are very close to attacking the person making the post, rather than attacking the content of the post.
So far things havent crossed the line too much, and the debate is interesting enough so I'll let it continue for the moment, but please remember the spirit of the forum charter.

Suzannem

Mags Murray's racenight is on at The Bell tonight at 9pm - Its going to better then the usual race nights.....come and find out!!

ciaran76 wrote: »

So the people looking to be elected for the 1st time who I have never seen before or heard of suddenly have an article in the local paper and a 1000's of posters on the lamposts around D.15 want me to vote for them.

Apparently that's the idea of an election. Even the ones you have heard of might want you to vote for them. There's nowt so queer as folk.

Thaedydal wrote: »

Clearly he values his vote and thinks that he is entitled to find out as much about the candidates and the issues they are running on as possible

Christ, pass me the sick-bucket. I have read what these politicians are saying. I have attended public meetings they have held on a variety of issues. I attended a public questions and answers session at the civic offices with the candidates last week - and you are implying that this other guy values his vote more than me? (And yes, yes, you didn't say it but that is the clear implication of what you said)

If he values his vote then he could get off his arse and inform himself instead of expecting election candidates to turn up at the doors of an electorate of 50,000 and be personally interviewed by them all.

Nobody is questioning anyone's entitlement to find out about candidates. What I have an issue with is lazy people who expect to be spoon-fed. He doesn't remotely value his vote. If he did he'd inform himself.

Powerhouse wrote: »

Interview them?! Why not get a psychological profiler in while you're at it.
It's hard to believe reading this that your vote is worth only the same as mine!

Clearly he values his vote and thinks that he is entitled to find out as much about the candidates and the issues they are running on as possible

ciaran76 wrote: »

Yeah I do read that newspaper so do see what they are getting up to. I am in contact with some of the councillors by e-mail or post on occassions so I have no worries there.

I dont think they should spend their time going from door to door everyday thats your statement not mine. I was just talking about election times.

They seem to be able to get to my parents house plenty of times during the elections and what about the people who have never been voted in before how are we supposed to decided on them if their phone numbers are not on the Fingal website.

Well one of the things I learned last night on my tour of the Dáil and being shown around the offices of Cairán Cuffe (green party whip) that if an estate has a high % of people who actually turn out an vote then they will canvas in those areas and target them more, which will be more mature areas.

New estates with a younger demographic just do not get canvased in the same way, or older estates which are seen to have a less educated, politically active residents will not have the politicians working the doorsteps for votes in the same way.

Tbh if you have their email and they are replying to you then by all means make use of it.

Actually how about we compile a list of questions and then email the candidates and post up how long it took them to answer and what their answers are?

The D15 forum doorstep.

What questions and what issue do you want to ask of the candidates?

ciaran76

Powerhouse wrote: »

I don't see anything in this to change the nature of my question. What posters on lampposts has to do with you expecting to see your local politicians regularly on your doorstep is not clear.

So the people looking to be elected for the 1st time who I have never seen before or heard of suddenly have an article in the local paper and a 1000's of posters on the lamposts around D.15 want me to vote for them.

So what if they set up some local meeting or clinic a few months before an election. The years and months before I have never seen these people and suddenly they want my vote.

I can't remember if it was last time or the time before but I had seen names on the voting slip of people I had never heard of or mentioned in the paper.

confused-dazed wrote: »

i want to know who i'm voting for, i want to ask questions face to face. i basically want to interview these guys to see if they're worth getting my vote.

Interview them?! Why not get a psychological profiler in while you're at it.
It's hard to believe reading this that your vote is worth only the same as mine!