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Lufthansa Airmotive workers can feck off!!

Clytus

So the Lufthansa Airmotive workers basically told their bosses in Germany to F*** Off...that they deserve to be paid more than their counterparts in Germany.
I reckon if the Germans take the attitude "Sod the Paddys" and close up shop here...none of the Airmotive workers should get Jobseekers allowance because they more or less forced the plant to close.

Same applied to the SR Tecniques lads...they all figured theyd get a nice cushy redundecy package...but got the land of their lives when the Big Wigs in Zurich handed them a bucket of cash and said thats it....divey it up as yiz please!!

The Irish Trade Union movement has caused more damage in recent times than 10 life times of Financial crises...its time we told them where to go.

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ScouseMouse

I work in a shop and one of my customers was SR Technics.

In his words : "The unions sold us down the swanny"

His words - not mine.

Mark200

Unions really are kicking this country while it's down. I'm fucking sick of it.

Turkeyspotter

To 2nd of 465

I actually have a lot of sympathy for you and the others who have lost their jobs. I really hope people will see sense before it is too late.

The unions are dinosaurs and with modern employment legislation are not actually required at all. Its a shame the government hasn't modernised our labour relations legislation instead of continually buying them off.

memo_to_all

If I was an Airmotive worker right now...Id be gathering like minded workers march to the managements office and declare they are the true repersentitives of the Airmotive workers and work at securing the plants survival.

Mailman

handsomecake wrote: »

yeah. its statutory plus .84 of a weeks wage. but the company can apparently get the government to contribute the statutory bit afaik.

all i know is that it was an abysmal package they got.

To me that sounds like a standard redundancy package capped at two years salary but I'd need to see the figures to be sure.
With twenty years service that person is probably over 40 and qualifies for a higher redundancy package of which a sizable proportion is tax free. Being clever and sending a portion of the balance to pension leaves less of the remainder exposed to tax.

Can any of the guys in there tell if the long serving union members in Lufthansa Airmotive are angling for a redundancy package? I expect the Union would be pushing for voluntary redundancy on the basis of FIFO.

2nd of 465

Turkeyspotter wrote: »

To 2nd of 465

I actually have a lot of sympathy for you and the others who have lost their jobs. I really hope people will see sense before it is too late.

The unions are dinosaurs and with modern employment legislation are not actually required at all. Its a shame the government hasn't modernised our labour relations legislation instead of continually buying them off.

I am a Craftsperson at LTAI and am required by the company to be a member of a Trade Union, I would be in breech of my conract if I left the Union, Believe it or not,

2nd of 465

Mailman wrote: »

To me that sounds like a standard redundancy package capped at two years salary but I'd need to see the figures to be sure.
With twenty years service that person is probably over 40 and qualifies for a higher redundancy package of which a sizable proportion is tax free. Being clever and sending a portion of the balance to pension leaves less of the remainder exposed to tax.

Can any of the guys in there tell if the long serving union members in Lufthansa Airmotive are angling for a redundancy package? I expect the Union would be pushing for voluntary redundancy on the basis of FIFO.

There will be no package, Last in First out, a lot of us in that bracket are there less than 2 years, no package,

2nd of 465

memo_to_all wrote: »

If I was an Airmotive worker right now...Id be gathering like minded workers march to the managements office and declare they are the true repersentitives of the Airmotive workers and work at securing the plants survival.

Management know well who the Trouble makers are,

Mailman

yeah well obviously the guys under two years service will be sacrificied but in some minds if that's the cost of getting a payout for the long serving so be it.

That's speculation on my part but have you seen anything to suggest that some are manouevering for a payout?

2nd of 465

Mailman wrote: »

yeah well obviously the guys under two years service will be sacrificied but in some minds if that's the cost of getting a payout for the long serving so be it.

That's speculation on my part but have you seen anything to suggest that some are manouevering for a payout?

not really, some loudmouth talk, as I was saying on an earlier post the empty vessels are moking most noise, trouble is that the few actually believe there is no threat to our jobs at all, I was called a spineless B*****d because I stood my ground in voting to accept the companys proposals,

wylo

2nd of 465 wrote: »

Management know well who the Trouble makers are,

do you reckon it will be the nay sayers that will be the first to lose jobs?

reading what you guys have to say sickens me tbh, so im glad management know who the troublemakers are.

I think thats why the likes of Shannon Aerospace is quite safe now compared to the likes of what happend at SRT, people decided to take a hit regarding overtime etc (not sure of details tbh) and that was a few years ago before any recession

Mailman

2nd of 465 wrote: »

I was called a spineless B*****d because I stood my ground in voting to accept the companys proposals,

Was it a show of hands or secret ballot?

Turkeyspotter

2nd of 465 wrote: »

I am a Craftsperson at LTAI and am required by the company to be a member of a Trade Union, I would be in breech of my conract if I left the Union, Believe it or not,

To my mind this is part of the reason why the union nettle should have been grasped long ago and these kind of restrictive practices outlawed. Nobody should be forced to be in a union. I have friends in the Public Service who are required by contract to be in a union. Basically the workers with the most rights in the country in many cases are forced to have union membership thatt none of them need in the first place. All of this should have been sorted out in the greater interest when the public mood was right back in 1997 when Bertie came to power. He, however, neglected this duty and this was not to be the only occasion as the current state of our economy illustrates.

2nd of 465

wylo wrote: »

do you reckon it will be the nay sayers that will be the first to lose jobs?

reading what you guys have to say sickens me tbh, so im glad management know who the troublemakers are.

I think thats why the likes of Shannon Aerospace is quite safe now compared to the likes of what happend at SRT, people decided to take a hit regarding overtime etc (not sure of details tbh) and that was a few years ago before any recession

Would be against the Law to let them go first,

Shannon Aerospace is owned by Lufthansa aswell, word is that Lufthansa are trying to buy SR also,

tommu

148 Neg V 317 Pos.

The majority who are willing to save the company should form a workers council (non union), this should include all personnel, management and shop floor. as the largest representative group they are in control.
The negative element, as a minority, get real or get replaceable.
Painful but democratic.
I would do whatever is necessary to protect my future and more importantly my family's future.

2nd of 465

Turkeyspotter wrote: »

To my mind this is part of the reason why the union nettle should have been grasped long ago and these kind of restrictive practices outlawed. Nobody should be forced to be in a union. I have friends in the Public Service who are required by contract to be in a union. Basically the workers with the most rights in the country in many cases are forced to have union membership thatt none of them need in the first place. All of this should have been sorted out in the greater interest when the public mood was right back in 1997 when Bertie came to power. He, however, neglected this duty and this was not to be the only occasion as the current state of our economy illustrates.

Wouldn't get carried away with the most rights in the country Turkey, we have the same rights as everyone else in the country, Labour Laws are there for all of us,

2nd of 465

tommu wrote: »

148 Neg V 317 Pos.

The majority who are willing to save the company should form a workers council (non union), this should include all personnel, management and shop floor. as the largest representative group they are in control.
The negative element, as a minority, get real or get replaceable.
Painful but democratic.
I would do whatever is necessary to protect my future and more importantly my family's future.

As I said I would loose my job on the spot if I left the Union,

Turkeyspotter

2nd of 465 wrote: »

Wouldn't get carried away with the most rights in the country Turkey, we have the same rights as everyone else in the country, Labour Laws are there for all of us,

Which I agree with completely - they are indeed there for all of us. However given that Labour Laws are so comprehensive these days most people in the private sector absolutely feel no need to be in a union. In fact a large portion of the public actualiy hold unions and the 'me rights' mentality of the militants in contempt.

2nd of 465

Turkeyspotter wrote: »

Which I agree with completely - they are indeed there for all of us. However given that Labour Laws are so comprehensive these days most people in the private sector absolutely feel no need to be in a union. In fact a large portion of the public actualiy hold unions and the 'me rights' mentality of the militants in contempt.

Not sure where youre going there Turk, I am in the Private sector, as I have said my Employer insists on my membership of a Trade Union,

Darragh29

One thing is clear. The same companies that have been having major industrial relations issues all through the Celtic tiger/Boom, are getting the flock out of town now at the first sign of trouble. SR Technics, Waterford Crystal, Airmotive, what do they all have in common??? They've all been fighting with management on a regular basis all during the last 15 odd years.

If you want to run a business, then start one up and see how you get on. Until then you are an employee and you are paid to work, not run your employers business or dictate the manner in how your employer runs their business. This is the problem with SR Technics, Waterford Crystal, Airmotive, and a host of other companies, workers telling the employers how the business will be run. We can see the result of it now, employers throwing the pocket aces down onto the table now in a recession and laughing their way out of town while leaving what could only be called unsavory redundancy packages behind to give workers pause to think about.

gerrycollins

just on a point of been in a union even thought its says so in your contract the constitution of the country makes provision for the fact that every member of the public and company has to right to associate or disassociate with a union.

Dont know for the life of me how a company contract can over write the constitution of the country.

Bottom line for me unions are a joke and a threat to this country getting back on its feet.

Turkeyspotter

2nd of 465 wrote: »

Not sure where youre going there Turk, I am in the Private sector, as I have said my Employer insists on my membership of a Trade Union,

I would nearly put money on it that the mandatory union clause that your employment contract contains was placed there in turn for some concession or demand from the union in the past. Basically your employer bought them off at some point...

gerrycollins

Turkeyspotter wrote: »

I would nearly put money on it that the mandatory union clause that your employment contract contains was placed there in turn for some concession or demand from the union in the past. Basically your employer bought them off at some point...

and that just brings money into the unions pocket, thats all.

tommu

As I said I would loose my job on the spot if I left the Union,

Will you retain your job if you stay in the union, something must change !!!!!

2nd of 465

tommu wrote: »

Will you retain your job if you stay in the union, something must change !!!!!

Fair Point

Turkeyspotter

Speaking of constitutions - wouldn't it be interesting to know if it was constitutional to force an employee (by whatever means) to be in a union?

tommu

Turkeyspotter Speaking of constitutions - wouldn't it be interesting to know if it was constitutional to force an employee (by whatever means) to be in a union?

A Very important point. There is a direct cost of union membership, a bit like a tax on your income.
Is it legal to impose a mandatory fee on employment ?????.

gerrycollins

Turkeyspotter wrote: »

Speaking of constitutions - wouldn't it be interesting to know if it was constitutional to force an employee (by whatever means) to be in a union?

its not constitutional, you have the right to associate or dissassociate with a union, you cannot force someone to be in a union.

It might be in contract but that could be put there as was previously said as a negeotation tatic when previously dealing with unions.

Jip

2nd of 465 wrote: »

we are not all Morons as has been suggested, I take great offence to the suggestion that we are,

I made it quite clear in my original post and I have already clarified it a second time, I never said you were all morons, I, as plain as the nose on your face, said those that blindly followed the unions are.

wicklori

Did anyone hear yer man on Morning Ireland this morning? Missed his name, but some kind of worker's representative-not a Union official as far as i could make out...

It's the management's fault according to him-took a hard line approach...

Where do these people get off???? Workersover there seem have lost the ability to listen and interpret what they are being told-i.e.-get with the programme or all your jobs are gone. (Obviously not the ones who voted with the proposal)

I just couldn't believe him trying to say that management hadn't spoken 'nicely' enough to the workers!! WTF!