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End of our tether

Tippex

Looking for some suggetsions on this.

Our 15 year old is playing silly buggers again. His Junior cert mocks are coming up and he has not done a tap. His attidtude at home absolutely stinks. No matter what is said to him he only listens to what he wants to listen to (like all kids) but I sat him down and gave him advice to speak to his year head about tips etc for study guess what? he didnt bother.

He had 2 weeks to ask the year head so my wife called him today to say that we are worried etc and got told he left school without permission yesterday.

Every single time he does something he gets caught (he's one of those kids).

We have stopped short of telling him who he can or cannot hang around with but it is now at the stage where we have to do something.

We have had his "cool" uncle have a chat to him but that hasnt helped.

He has this idea that he is stupid and even though he done reasonably ok in some of his christmas exams his behaviour and effort was attrocious.
He knows that we would be happy if he was scraping by in some subjects if he is putting in the effort but he just is not bothered.

The last thing we want is his attitude to school to get worse but over the last 3 weeks it sticks to high heaven.

I know this is a bit of a ramble and not well thought out but any advice would be good.

Cheers,
Tip.

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ntlbell

There's an awful lot of negativity coming across in your posts.

Try some positive reinforcement less talking and telling and more listening.

You seem to be more worried about his school results than him.

In the grand scheme of things junior cert results are not terribly important what is important is the happiness of your child try as i said more listening and you might find out what's actually wrong.

just saying his attitude stinks etc won't be very helpful to you, your wife or your child.

Tippex

Ntlbell,

I understand where you are coming from and we have tried that. brought him into town just the two of us to spend time together. Asked him whats going on with him thats why we got him to chat to the "cool" uncle but no matter what we do or try he just says nothings wrong everythings grand.

I know that in the greater scheme of things the Junior cert is not overly important.

TBH I'm more concerned about the lack of effort and the fact that he couldnt care less about putting in any effort than the results themselves. Even with his christmas exams I had told him that some of the results were brilliant and it showed that he could do it but he just does not seem bothered.

ntlbell

Tippex wrote: »

Ntlbell,

I understand where you are coming from and we have tried that. brought him into town just the two of us to spend time together. Asked him whats going on with him thats why we got him to chat to the "cool" uncle but no matter what we do or try he just says nothings wrong everythings grand.

I know that in the greater scheme of things the Junior cert is not overly important.

TBH I'm more concerned about the lack of effort and the fact that he couldnt care less about putting in any effort than the results themselves. Even with his christmas exams I had told him that some of the results were brilliant and it showed that he could do it but he just does not seem bothered.

Why would his lack of effort be surprising to you?

I would of thought this would be the attitude of 99% of 15yr old students and the ones who are concerned and put a lot of effort in at 15 are a very small minority it was certainly the case when I went to school.

If you bring him into town to spend some "time" together and spend it asking questions you're not going to get very far.

Just try for a few weeks to get close to him show lots of interest in what he wants to do outside of school try and have some fun with him and don't badger him if there is something up he's more likely to tell you when he's comfortable than when he's been constantly questioned.

Try and remember when you were 15 and what you responded to and what you didn't

Maybe he just doesn't find how he's taught in school interesting, schools teach everyone the same but not everyone IS the same, not everyone learns the same.

smelltheglove

I dont have a 15 yr old but took an active part in my yound brothers life and I know at that age he was very similar, almost an echo of your sons behaviour. Myself and my bro and sis were all already settled and each spoke to him about it. He had very much the same attitude, a huge lack of confidence and I would urge you to tackle this with encouragement.

My younger brother had some issues that would have led him to lack of confidence and we understood this and encouraged him in what he was good at. Our family would not have been very acedmic so there wouldnt have been a lot of pressure to do well in results, we all have our own skills that have brought us to where we are and we encouraged him to work on what he was good at.

In the end he surprised us hugely with an A in business and woodwork. Unfortunately he is just one of those people who doesnt know what he wants to do but I feel encouragement in what he was good at helped in his situation.

If your son is lacking confidence any negativity is going to frustrate him even more, you need to talk to him and listen to what he has to say but not in a sense that he thinks he is having a one to one, I never had a one to one with my parents and never would have, maybe have a chat with him while you are getting him to help with dinner or maybe something else like if you need help putting something together, a nice relaxed situation where he is more likely to open up to you. Teenagers can be difficult, trust me, I know, I was a difficult one but if you get them the right way you will win.

gubby

"playing silly buggers again" is this the type of language you use all the time.. no wonder you are not able to communicate with a 15yrs old
I agree with above. try to chill a bit and let tell him how much you love him. always worked for me.

Fad

gubby wrote: »

tell him how much you love him. always worked for me.

As much meaning as it may have, not many teenagers actually wont to be told that.

As a teen/exam student myself, a kick up the arse is whats needed

, doesnt sound immensely pleasant but it probably needs to be done.

Ground him/put some incentive system in place, like if you do some work you can go out this weekend or whatever. OR a not ideal way offer is somesort of a reward for good grades in the JC.

ntlbell

Fad wrote: »

As much meaning as it may have, not many teenagers actually wont to be told that.

As a teen/exam student myself, a kick up the arse is whats needed , doesnt sound immensely pleasant but it probably needs to be done.

Ground him/put some incentive system in place, like if you do some work you can go out this weekend or whatever. OR a not ideal way offer is somesort of a reward for good grades in the JC.

That doesn't make much sense.

it doesn't sound like they have a very close relationship as it is so you want to give him more reasons to push himself away, more reasons to "rebel" more reasons to not listen.

he's 15 not 6 it's a bit late in the day to start putting the boot in

it rarley helps and is a very Neanderthal way to deal with the situation

IsThatSo?

C'mon, take it easy on the OP. He did state that he was at the end of his tether, and its hard to keep frustration at bay when you have tried everything and nothing is working.

I suppose at the end of the day, OP, its up to your son to motivate himself. There really is only so much you can do. 15 is old enough to understand that these are important exams (not because the JC is important, but its a stepping stone to the LC) and that his attitude is important also.

Would you consider arranging to meet his Year Head to see if there is anything going on in school that he has not told ye about?

Ultimately the decision to shape up is his, and the consequences are his to bear. Ok, you can encourage him, but really that is about all you can do. Any further "chats" will probably drive him further into his cocoon. Its possible he is feeling the stress of the exams and not handling it well

He still has three months, if he got his act together he could well pull it off so go softly for now.

Its a difficult situation...........................

Nevyn

Can you find away to index link his result to something he wants ?

Fad

ntlbell wrote: »

That doesn't make much sense.

it rarley helps and is a very Neanderthal way to deal with the situation

Teens (myself, and alot of males anyway) dont really like to be told that their mums love them soooooo much. I know that this love is pretty much unconditional so, as much as I appreciate my mum saying it, I dont really need to be reminded, if that makes sense.

Irish guys (stereotypically) arent exactly great with feelings.

OP I dont think you are doing anything wrong, relax!
If theres a "Carrot" you can offer, find it!

John Mason

LOL - do you not remember what it was like being 15?

When i was 15, if people nagged me and told me to do something i would do the opposit. i didnt do a thing for my junior cert, never opened a book.

IMO there is no need to for kids to studying their heads off for junior cert mock.

he does his homework and assignments? this should be enough to get him through the exams

asking him to go to his year head for tips - seriously, are you for real? i am 34 and studying part-time in college and there is no way in hell, i would be going to my lecture looking for tips, if my parents told me to.

back away and give him some and stop with all the pressure

Beruthiel

Total lack of confidence in oneself at that age can make a kid think 'why bother'

You need to find something he's good at and interested in and work on the confidence from there.
If he realises he can be good at something, perhaps that will transfer onto school work and the effort he puts in.

I've always found that talking to (rather than talking at) a child can make a big difference to them taking what you say on board.
Ask him for his own imput, what he wants from life, where he would like to go.
He may not know what he wants, but I'm betting he knows what he doesn't want.
Help him work it out in his own head by getting him to think about it.

L31mr0d

Why is it we so easily forget what we where like at 15? Like NTLbell, I found your post to reek of negativity. He's 15, and discovering he doesn't have to listen to his parents or his teachers to decide what he wants out of life. Problem is, he's also at the point where he doesn't yet know what he wants.

You need to sit down with him, find out where he wants to go in life, and show him the steps he's going to need to take to get there. If you really care about him doing good in the Junior Cert, then show him how a good foundation of experience in exams will help him with the Leaving Cert, which will get him the points he needs to get into the University course he wants which will get him his dream job. You need to show him that he's hurting himself by not studying.

It's also worth noting that the junior cert means next to nothing in the long run. Even if he fails all of his exams and is asked to drop down to lower levels he can choose to stay in the higher levels if he wants, at least that was the case when I did my Junior Cert. I failed a bunch of exams, was told that I'd better drop out of honours subjects or I'd fail my leaving. I stayed in honours and passed everything for my leaving cert as I understood by that point that my results would dictate my college education.

lostinnappies

I may come off as being old school or a little hard line but I'm afraid with teenagers they are perfectly able to decide for themselves what is the right and wrong thing to do, they are also able to decide not to be bothered with certain things. They will try to get away with anything and their attitude can be best discribed by Harry Enfields "its not fair ... " sketch.

Obviously talking so far has not helped, motivating him with the "cool" uncle hasnt worked either. The problem is not that he isnt smart its boredom. He's bored beyond belief with his subjects and the whole school thing. Take it all away for the next 6 months until he has it done. No TV, no computers, no hanging out with friends, no playing hookie unless he reaches certain goals PER WEEK. Start with something simple like study. He must study (supervised) in the kitchen for at least 1 hour each day to get computer/tv time. If he does this all week then he gets to hang out with his friends on the WEEKEND only. Set a goal for his Junior cert. Tell him if he gets so may B's or C's (make it realistic) then he can get something REALLY COOL at the summer. He is 15 now, driving lessons can start at age 17 so I dont know if he would be motivated enough to wait that long but you get my meaning. You have to make it something that he really wants to do.

It will be really tough and he will give out and make life difficult for you but if you set this out and follow through he will not only learn to work under his own steam even if he is board but he will learn the importance of sticking with something boring and difficult in order to achieve something great and hopefully you might be able to motivate him with his leaving cert with the driving idea (or maybe a car

)

nesf

Interesting and tangentially related newly published neuroscience study: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16535-why-teenagers-cant-see-your-point-of-view.html

smelltheglove

looking over the last few posts I want to say to the op that I do believe telling a teenager you love them makes a difference. many teenagers dont hear it as parfents assume they know it. I cannot ever remember my parents telling me they loved me when I was a teenager, they were too busy arguing and I know it would have made a huge difference to me at the time. Your son is already feeling down by the sounds of it so a little love and understanding could go a long way.

I am young myself and still freshly remember my teens and also my brother who I contributed quite a bit to is fresh out of his teens, I am strongly of the mind that your teenage child should not only be your child but also your friend, teenagers want their parents approval and often rebellious teenagers are those who have little personal relationship with their parents, it does not mean the parenting isnt good, its just the friendship needs to be worked on.

Tippex

Hi All thanks for the replies,

We have tried the sit down have a chat listen route.

We set an incentive of not getting into trouble in school (not the usual no books,detention etc) and make an effort and he would get a laptop after the exams so that didnt last long.

We have giving him a lot more freedom by being allowed out with his mates into town etc.

It's not like we havent tried pretty much evereything with him.

We knew he has been struggling and he would not ask for help at all so I told him it is up to him to ask for the help that if he doesnt want it from us have a chat to his dean. He never bothered.

So I sat him down and told him about the thread and the fact that not everyone can agree on what should be done. Weirldy it looks like it might be working (early days yet) he has actually started to study and he seems happier in himself. I also told him to have a think about things and the way things are and tell me what he wants to change at home.

When we were chatting he was mentioning about some of his friends drinking and I was saying that the decision is his to drink but that if he does I would prefer to know about it instead of him hiding it. I know he doesnt even before he had said so and I think he was surprised that I wasnt saying NO don;t drink.

And for the last couple of years he has been saying he wants to be an architect. And yes in the greater scheme of things the junoir cert isnt important but as a grounding and the experience for the leaving it is extremely important.

Anyway thats where things stand at the moment.

Thanks for all the input.

Tip.

smelltheglove

Well it sounds like you are getting places and I know so many people would argue this with you but I think your approach to drinking is a good one.

As a kid all my mates went out drinking yet I never did what was known as nacker drinking, i.e. drinking in the fields, as I knew that if I wanted a drink that badly I could just approach my dad and ask could myself and my friend have a drink in the house.

It is a mutual respect and when you show him the respect to make his own decision he will show you the respect back by not going against your wishes or disappointing you. I'm not saying let him get hammered, tell him look if you have decided to have a drink let it be 2 while we are home or something along those lines, make sure to discuss it with his friends parents though if he will have a friend with him.

Nevyn

IF that is his goal career then he will have to study for and sit a lot of exams.
Maybe mentioning that good habits now will pay of later.

He has to choose to do this himself, he has to want to, it's hard to sit a bit back as a parent while they do it.

Beruthiel

Tippex wrote: »

When we were chatting he was mentioning about some of his friends drinking and I was saying that the decision is his to drink but that if he does I would prefer to know about it instead of him hiding it.

On my daughters 14th birthday I brought her out to dinner and bought her a tia maria and milk.
Anytime after that, I'd give her a small glass of wine when I was having it myself at home.
She told me years later I ruined the whole alure of going off knacker drinking. She never did it. Why would she bother going out in the cold when she could do it in the comfort of her own home.
It worked a treat for me and it's something you could try.

delly

Beruthiel wrote: »

On my daughters 14th birthday I brought her out to dinner and bought her a tia maria and milk.
Anytime after that, I'd give her a small glass of wine when I was having it myself at home.
She told me years later I ruined the whole alure of going off knacker drinking. She never did it. Why would she bother going out in the cold when she could do it in the comfort of her own home.
It worked a treat for me and it's something you could try.

Do you know that's an echo of how my mother treated me?

Since my dad died when I was 12, my mother was always trying to do the best to act as mam and dad as I was the youngest of three. Around the 14/15 mark myself and friends used to go to the Grove and do the whole cans in a field thing. Soon after this my mother had a chat with me and told me I could drink in the house etc., and just not to do something stupid when out.

The net result was the same as your daughter, and drink wasn't really as cool anymore. As I got older I never really developed a taste for it, and even now at 30 it might be a month or two before I have a drink.