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Will the public service strike now?

321654

Heres my take on the situation.

SFA, IBEC and the Govt were in cahoots all along on this.

Whatever happens to the public sector, will happen to the private sector in time. So far only about 10% of the private sector have been hit. This will now increase to the same percentage as the public sector effected.

BAsically the govt ask for twice as much in pension levies as they think they can reasonably expect. They are expecting the threat of industrial action. When they then half the take in pension levies this will appease the unions and all will be fine. At least that is the plan.

This levy on pensions is just the start. Wait and see. They'll then anopunce a cut in tax relief on pension payments, which will be a double whamy on the public sector. As long as they get it worse the private sector will take theirs too.

If i was in the public sector i would expect to strike. Bend over and take this and they are just willing to be screwed harder. The govt will bush until they are scared to push anymore. The sooner there is a reaction to this pushing the sooner they will sit up and take notice.

I think there will be major industrial action over this. I hope there is actually because the private sector will get screwed every bit as hard as the public sector and then some.

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mickoneill30

Degsy wrote: »

How much weere builders and plasterers charging at the height of the boom?500 quid a day and a lot of it was cash in hand.

Try saying to a builder now that he has to take a 7% pay cut. I'm sure he'd jump at the chance. Rather than a 100% one.

Rebel021

321654 wrote: »

I think you hit the nail on the head. They are getting ridden and battered by everyone. The media assauklt on them is frightening. And its not fair.

The ordinary public sector worker doesnt get bonuses either.

If i didnt get my bonus in my job i would walk.

Agreed,
My wife receives no bonuses either and the attack by the media has done its job by swaying the uninformed that all public sector are earning vast amounts of money.

Caoimhín

pyramuid man wrote: »

Why were you not saying the same thing three or four years ago.

I have been saying the same thing for years. The fact remains, a public service job is very secure a great pension. Most private sector jobs do NOT have health insurance as a perk.
The stare can not afford to keep the highest paid public service in Europe. If they dont make these cuts, the state will be bankrupt in 6 months and the IMF will be called in to sack 25% PS workers anyway.

I know its hard to take any paycut but it is better than losing your job like the hundred of thousands of private sector workers who have lost their jobs in the past year.

Degsy

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Try saying to a builder now that he has to take a 7% pay cut. I'm sure he'd jump at the chance.

Well was he paying into a pension?
Was he thinking of his future?
or was he blowing his money on new jeeps every year and property in bulgaria?

faceman

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

At the moment we are ok, but if I lost my job I know we'd rather have the extra euros every week now to secure my mortgage, than in the form of a pension later on. I think the extra levy is fair but I think the pension should be made optional.

One of the biggest issues the government created in the boom years was not provisioning for future pensions. Unfortunately that meant that the longer they left it, the harder the action to take would be. Most public servants have a guaranteed pension and havent had to make specific contributions into it.

However I do sympathise with your position. Many couples dont have the luxury of having 1 in public sector employment though.

Kimbot

I have said it many many times on here, I am a public sector employee. in my wages I already pay out 6.5% of my wage to a pension.

I have no choice in that and I have no choice in these cuts.
Why on earth should the Public service bend over backwards to keep the country afloat when its someone else that caused the collapse in the economy?

FlutterinBantam

321654 wrote: »

To make it fair it has to be PAYE increases for EVERYONE. Not cuts specific to one sector.

That's next year .

One year at a time please.

John Mason

Caoimhín wrote: »

I have been saying the same thing for years. The fact remains, a public service job is very secure a great pension. .

CAN PEOPLE STOP SAYING THIS - IT IS NOT TRUE

25% OF MY DEPARTMENT HAVE JUST BEEN MADE REDUNDANT AND ANOTHER 25% ARE TO BE MADE REDUNDANT IN THE NEXT 3 MONTHS :mad::mad:

mickoneill30

Rebel021 wrote: »

My wife receives no bonuses either and the attack by the media has done its job by swaying the uninformed that all public sector are earning vast amounts of money.

Nobody receives bonuses anymore. I haven't heard the media saying that public sector people get loads of money. It's more that their jobs are safer while the rest of us are losing ours.
If my company said tomorrow that if I took a 10% pay cut my job would be safe for a year I'd take it. I'd hate it too but it's looking like where I am now is not safe and I've nowhere to move to.

Quazzie

faceman wrote: »

However I do sympathise with your position. Many couples dont have the luxury of having 1 in public sector employment though.

Don't get me wrong. I still think I'm in a very lucky position especially since my job is heavily linked to construction, and I get to see a lot of the people being made redundant.

mickoneill30

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

CAN PEOPLE STOP SAYING THIS - IT IS NOT TRUE

25% OF MY DEPARTMENT HAVE JUST BEEN MADE REDUNDANT AND ANOTHER 25% ARE TO BE MADE REDUNDANT IN THE NEXT 3 MONTHS :mad::mad:

Which department?

thebman

mickoneill30 wrote: »

The common theme on the news was "I want to do something to help but I don't want to do that". At least the unions got consulted before the government went ahead. I know the unions never seem to agree and didn't seem to have an alternative but at least they had a chance. In my company we got told 10% of our staff were being let go. No ifs or ands or buts. And that's the start (for my company).

Our department is 1/3 the size it was last year and I've been working here since graduated and still not got a pay increase.

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Nope. Most give it to you and you get charged for it. I've been in 3 big companies in the last 5 years. I didn't get free health insurance. Who gets that anymore? That perk is long gone.

We get but it is deducted from our salaries. In fact, we don't get a choice who with and the owner knows the head of the health insurer we are with so basically it was to lock us into health insurance with his mate. Yeah I don't know how lucky I am.

not yet wrote: »

What the fu/ck is wrong with people that they dont know that public sector workers already pay 6% of the wage into a pension fund......

Yes I know it's a safe job etc, but most of them have a good education,have trained on crap money for 3-5 years, and only atfer 7 years do they go on the top of their scale. Now while at the height of the celtic tiger people made a fortune....plumbers charging 500 a day etc the p/s worker worked quitely behind the scenes.....

The private sector had it good for years, and now that we are in **** they want to target the p/s

Your problem (and it is a big fooking problem) is that you think everyone in the private sector is a plumber or got paid like a plumber. Tell that to the guy packing shelves in Lidl/Dunnes. Or the average entry level office worker. No, maybe the construction industry got paid well but most of them are already unemployed now or will be soon so what do you want to do, take their clothes off them for having it good for a few years? Good luck getting blood from a fooking turnip man.

not yet

Fcu/king car sales men making 1200 a week, estate agents 1500, bob the fuc/king builder anything up to 2000, and now things have got a bit hard they want to blame the public sector. let me remind you that a nurse has to train for up to 5 years on minimum wage while probably doing a night course,her starting salary is approx 23k only after 7 yeares can she expect to ge 35k, now for the crap she puts up with I dont think 35k is over the top. Remember that most of these people are well educated,well motivated and love their job, I doubt if anyone during the celtic tiger worked for 35 k with those qualifications.

monkeytronics

All public sector workers pay a contribution towards there pension - I pay 6.5% so I really wish people would educate themselves.

Secondly, I appreciate that SOME have taken a hit in the private sector. SOME. But NOT ALL. But now, every single public servant has been hit hard. Why should one community shoulder the burden. I don't necessary have a problem with a pay cut. But it should effect everyone across the working country not just some of the private sector and ALL the public sector.

Caoimhín

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

25% OF MY DEPARTMENT HAVE JUST BEEN MADE REDUNDANT AND ANOTHER 25% ARE TO BE MADE REDUNDANT IN THE NEXT 3 MONTHS :mad::mad:

Were they full time, permanent positions. Were they in a union?

destroyer

It doesnt go far enough in my opinion.
This only keeps us treading water for six months maybe,
then the real cuts/tax increases will have to be implemented.
Public sector numbers will have to be cut by 15% as jobs
in the private sector are lost,taxes will have to be raised on everyone
(including those who took the hit yesterday) and property tax
now looks a certainty.
Its not all bad though, the cost of living will continue to
fall and we'll just have to get used to a reduction in living
standards.
Oh and if the gov. is really serious about curing the mess,
reducing social welfare payments as cost of living falls, will also
encourage people to get out there and find some kind of job.

not yet

Fuc/king whinging cu/nts made good money during the boom years, now they want to screw anyone with a pension, I, and others like me got into the p/s years ago because it was stable,and whilst people made good money we kept the services going at the coalface.

RasTa

They should have being forced to take a 10% pay cut.

[Deleted User]

Caoimhín wrote: »

I have been saying the same thing for years. The fact remains, a public service job is very secure a great pension. Most private sector jobs do NOT have health insurance as a perk.
The stare can not afford to keep the highest paid public service in Europe. If they dont make these cuts, the state will be bankrupt in 6 months and the IMF will be called in to sack 25% PS workers anyway.

I know its hard to take any paycut but it is better than losing your job like the hundred of thousands of private sector workers who have lost their jobs in the past year.

Have to agree with you, you can't take from some and not from others but I do think the lowest paid in the public sector needs to be re-looked at, but as for anyone up on 30K+ some complaining.

I do agree with goverment that some hard decesions have to made but all options need to be looked at and it has to be fair and across the board. Take the ESB for example, only last week they announced huge profits and give themselves another payrise, why don't they decide not to give the payrise and take a drop in profits in order to lower the price of bills, thus helping businesses and home owners. Bord Gais and Eircom could do the same.

Taxes will be next hit too, if government are going to hit people's wages they need to address and do something to lower the costs of electricity, phone / internet services, VAT, VRT, high rents in the retail sector, stealth taxes etc... go after the people in the banks that have made a mess of things too and further lower the amount they give to overseas aid.

mickoneill30

not yet wrote: »

Fuc/king whinging cu/nts made good money during the boom years, now they want to screw anyone with a pension, I, and others like me got into the p/s years ago because it was stable,and whilst people made good money we kept the services going at the coalface.

Your a martyr. How were these services at the coalface paid for?

quad_red

jonny24ie wrote: »

I have no choice in that and I have no choice in these cuts.
Why on earth should the Public service bend over backwards to keep the country afloat when its someone else that caused the collapse in the economy?

Public sector workers benefited substantially as the government revenues increased through the social partnership 'process'.

Public sector worker pay increased substantially more than GDP and GNP were increasing (so more and more of the state's income was going to pay public sector wages).

The fact is that your employer, the state, is now running an almost incomprehensible deficit. Overall government spending for 2009 is going to be €55 billion with revenues predicted to be €37 billion. If that was a private company, there would be mass layoffs and paycuts across the board.

But unlike the rest of us, your job is relatively secure.

If you asked myself, or any of my friends, would we take a ten per cent paycut to guarantee our jobs - the answer would be yes.

And, btw, I'm college educated. In a professional job. And I earn the average industrial wage. As are most of my friends.

I refuse to countenance totally bankrupting this state and making this situation ten times worse just so we can continue paying you what you think you deserve.

That's no longer the issue - we are all faced with the reality that we are going to get paid what our employee can afford or we are going to lose our jobs.

Caoimhín

destroyer wrote: »

will also encourage people to get out there and find some kind of job.

290,000+ people on the dole as of Jan 1st; http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/labour_market/current/lreg.pdf

Do you really think there is even 100,000+ jobs in the country that people just cant be bothered to "get out there and find"?

not yet

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Your a martyr. How were these services at the coalface paid for?

MOSTLY SELF FINANCING......

monkeytronics

quad_red wrote: »

Public sector workers benefited substantially as the government revenues increased through the social partnership 'process'.

Public sector worker pay increased substantially more than GDP and GNP were increasing (so more and more of the state's income was going to pay public sector wages).

The fact is that your employer, the state, is now running an almost incomprehensible deficit. Overall government spending for 2009 is going to be €55 billion with revenues predicted to be €37 billion. If that was a private company, there would be mass layoffs and paycuts across the board.

But unlike the rest of us, your job is relatively secure.

If you asked myself, or any of my friends, would we take a ten per cent paycut to guarantee our jobs - the answer would be yes.

And, btw, I'm college educated. In a professional job. And I earn the average industrial wage. As are most of my friends.

I refuse to countenance totally bankrupting this state and making this situation ten times worse just so we can continue paying you what you think you deserve.

That's no longer the issue - we are all faced with the reality that we are going to get paid what our employee can afford or we are going to lose our jobs.

so far that is not ringing through. Only a relatively small portion of the private sector has been hit. I think you will find publuc sector working would have been much more willing to consider pay cuts if it affected EVERY worker and not just one part of the community

pyramuid man

In fairness the public sector did not cause this mess. Neither did alot of the private sector.

The problems we are having now are a direct result of the government mismanaging the country and the wealthy property developers and builders who were constantly seeing how much people would pay for apartments and houses. This was a great until they hit a wall on how much people would pay.

This situation should not have gotten as bad as it did but people were stupid enough to pay hundreds of thousands for a small two bedroom house anywhere and while these were selling the prices climbed. I know of a person who paid say for arguments sake €150,000 for a house off plan. When it was built a year later, it was sold for €350,000.

This is madness. How could this have been allowed to happen? If it was any other commodity it would have stopped alot earlier. Say a car was selling for 10,000 and a dealer tries to sell it for 15000 and then on to 20,000 and so on until it reached 50,000, how long would it have lasted. Peoples greediness kicked in and made them think that paying a huge amount for a house was a good investment and they will make a profit from it.

Now we have the problem because people stopped buying and now the country is f*cked because the banks funded it and the government based alot of the countries tax income on property taxes and the rising price of property pushed up the cost of living went as the cost of property went up.

Now the country is in a hole because they cannot charge a property tax at the moment because of the stamp duty paid on houses already. They cannon raise taxes too much because we are fairly highly taxed on everything as it is so the only way out is to make cuts in services some of which are already stretched and cannot take any cuts.

So cuts are coming and slightly more tax is what I can see coming.

LOTTOWINNER

I have worked in the private sector for the last 20 years (10 years) in current job, we were put on a 4 day week in December, still on it at the moment, that's a 20% pay cut, my defined contribuation pension lost 40% of it's value in the last 18 months, I'm on the average industrial wage and finally I don't receive any sick pay from my employer if I'm sick.

So the public sector situation seems very idyllic compared to mine.

KerranJast

The Govt is akin to a business in trouble. They have seriously low income from customers i.e. taxes from the citizens and so to cut costs they can either

(a) Increase prices (higher taxes) - this could further drive down consumer spending though.
(b) Reduce their service (cut back on Public spending on Health, Social Welfare, Roads, Schools etc)
(c) Reduce their overheads (cut staff wages i.e. the Public Sector)
(d) Lay off staff (Public Sector)

They've chosen the least controversial one for now in (c) but (d) and (a) will also have to happen to plug the €20-€30 BILLION hole in the finances. Alternatively the can choose (c), keep us all on low taxes and all the Public Sector in work but chop back hugely on Services which I doubt anyone wants.

As for why those who didn't profit from the Celtic Tiger have to pay for this, well a reasonably small cohort of Developers and others made huge money. Unfortunately for us most of them have lost that money and even then there are so few of them relative to the population at large that even by charging them 80% tax it would be a drop in the ocean of what we need to rescue the State Finances. Its a simple bitter Maths lesson. Taxes only recoup money when applied to the biggest bulk of Citizens. Sad but true.

destroyer

Caoimhín wrote: »

290,000+ people on the dole as of Jan 1st; http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/labour_market/current/lreg.pdf

Do you really think there is even 100,000+ jobs in the country that people just cant be bothered to "get out there and find"?

I know people who wont take low paid jobs because they can get
70-80% as much on the dole.

Degsy

quad_red wrote: »

I refuse to countenance totally bankrupting this state and making this situation ten times worse just so we can continue paying you what you think you deserve.

What a lousy 30 grand a year is bankrupting the state?
bollocks.
There's households on the dole pulling in that much and they're not paying a penny in tax.

[Deleted User]

KerranJast wrote: »

The Govt is akin to a business in trouble. They have seriously low income from customers i.e. taxes from the citizens and so to cut costs they can either

(a) Increase prices (higher taxes) - this could further drive down consumer spending though.
(b) Reduce their service (cut back on Public spending on Health, Social Welfare, Roads, Schools etc)
(c) Reduce their overheads (cut staff wages i.e. the Public Sector)
(d) Lay off staff (Public Sector)

They need to also reboost the economy, as I've said before if government are going to hit people's wages they need to address and do something to lower the costs of electricity, phone / internet services, VAT, VRT, high rents in the retail sector, stealth taxes, further lower the amount they give to overseas aid etc...