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How many PFOs have you got from solicitors firms?

willie mason

I'm on four at this stage: Arthur Cox, A&L Goodbody, Beauchamps and McCann Fitzgerald.

Just waiting for the inevitable from MOPs, William Fry and BCM Hanby Wallace.

My BBLS, 6 months work in a local solicitor's office and the LLM I'm doing can't even get me an interview. It's so depressing.

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hada

this lark of spending 40 minutes grilling people on aer lingus, public/private sector stimulation, investment opportunities in Ireland is absolute waste of time.

to think they are basing a traineeship entirely on whether a 20something year old has an indepth knowledge (and I mean, indepth - I know for a fact some of these firms wanted much more than a surface knowledge as most would expect) of such things is a farce.

Don't get me wrong, I've always had a damn keen interest in local, national and international affairs, but what type 20 year old does one have to be to pass such an interview?

I'd sure as hell not have passed it when I was 20 and would probably struggle nowadays even.

newby09

LK Shields have started getting back to applicants....

johnfás

Yea, my interviews were all about ECB interest rate cuts and stuff... felt like I was getting butchered.

Irishlawgirl

newby09 wrote: »

LK Shields have started getting back to applicants....

Hey - when you say - getting back - is that from interviews? Or am I being delirious asking from application forms (and that i'm still in with a chance?!?)

theo2008

Hey, Got my PFO from LK Shields today. And no they haven't done any interviews yet. I thought the wording was strange, the first line said "Having reviewed your application in more detail we do not feel that it would be appropriate to proceed further".

Saying that it would not be appropriate just seems to me to be a personal statement and not a generic one. Could anyone else who's gotten PFOs from them tell me was this what they said to you also? Thanks.

Irishlawgirl

theo2008 wrote: »

Hey, Got my PFO from LK Shields today. And no they haven't done any interviews yet. I thought the wording was strange, the first line said "Having reviewed your application in more detail we do not feel that it would be appropriate to proceed further".

Saying that it would not be appropriate just seems to me to be a personal statement and not a generic one. Could anyone else who's gotten PFOs from them tell me was this what they said to you also? Thanks.

Sorry but that is the first time i've ever laughed at reading a PFO! Ha!! i'm sure mine is at home! "in more detail" priceless! Not - "the economy has bottomed out and we're in panic mode like everyone else!!"

Sorry again - don't mean to be in bad taste - I think i'm just withered and have given up on the war for the time being.

Johnny Utah

theo2008 wrote: »

Hey, Got my PFO from LK Shields today. And no they haven't done any interviews yet. I thought the wording was strange, the first line said "Having reviewed your application in more detail we do not feel that it would be appropriate to proceed further".

Saying that it would not be appropriate just seems to me to be a personal statement and not a generic one. Could anyone else who's gotten PFOs from them tell me was this what they said to you also? Thanks.

I got a different response from LK Shields. I got an e-mail today:

"Although your application for job of Trainee Solicitors has been considered, your application has failed to meet the minimum requirements.

Good luck with future applications."

Failed to meet minimum requirements?

Are they taking the piss?

besty

Comiserations guys, it's very disheartening but keep the chin up and something will come your way.

Irishlawgirl

oh janey - minimum requirements ?? Think I read once that someone thought maybe these firms were looking for the near impossible - possibly a kidney?!?! I honestly believe that the majority (way past 60%) of candidates are taken while they were in college (for these top 20 firms) - soooo minimum requirements may actually mean "minimum age"! Oh I sound bitter and old!! I'm only 26 but I feel ancient when it came to sitting in the group interviews of ACox for the last two years. Just giving my rant a bit of air space here.

Johnny Utah

Irishlawgirl wrote: »

oh janey - minimum requirements ?? Think I read once that someone thought maybe these firms were looking for the near impossible - possibly a kidney?!?! I honestly believe that the majority (way past 60%) of candidates are taken while they were in college (for these top 20 firms) - soooo minimum requirements may actually mean "minimum age"! Oh I sound bitter and old!! I'm only 26 but I feel ancient when it came to sitting in the group interviews of ACox for the last two years. Just giving my rant a bit of air space here.

No, I'm a graduate so I would be older than the average age of those in their final year.

jafferz

Mine said they weren't progressing with interviews this year, but that they were impressed with my application and I should apply next year.

Irishlawgirl

Johnny Utah wrote: »

No, I'm a graduate so I would be older than the average age of those in their final year.

Same as myself - that's what I meant (or tried to convey in my tired and withered state). I do think firms want their candidates with experience (but in the form of a summer job in law) and still in college. Just my two cents. Don't mean to sound bitter. (eventhough I probably am as I wished I'd worked harder and was more focused in college).

AKK

theo2008 wrote: »

Hey, Got my PFO from LK Shields today. And no they haven't done any interviews yet. I thought the wording was strange, the first line said "Having reviewed your application in more detail we do not feel that it would be appropriate to proceed further".

Saying that it would not be appropriate just seems to me to be a personal statement and not a generic one. Could anyone else who's gotten PFOs from them tell me was this what they said to you also? Thanks.

Seem to have gotten the exact same email.

I was fairly taken aback though by their opening line as well Theo - I thought ouch, that's a bit harsh - not to mention personal - but it seems to be just a variation on the standard PFO theme.

partyguinness

Sorry to hear about the PFOs

But dont take the wording to heart. Those letters are standard form letters and are in a precedent bank in the computers. They are not written personally. This is standard in the legal profession.

A bit like those letter from the bank when you miss a payment.

AKK

partyguinness wrote: »

Sorry to hear about the PFOs

But dont take the wording to heart. Those letters are standard form letters and are in a precedent bank in the computers. They are not written personally. This is standard in the legal profession.

A bit like those letter from the bank when you miss a payment.

Yup - agree entirely partyguinness but honestly, on a first reading of the PFO it seemed unnecessarily cruel! Of course I know that many will have gotten the exact same one. All the firms could take a leaf out of A Coxes book though: they've the sweetest pfo I've ever seen!

newby09

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I got a different response from LK Shields. I got an e-mail today:

"Although your application for job of Trainee Solicitors has been considered, your application has failed to meet the minimum requirements.

Good luck with future applications."

Failed to meet minimum requirements? Are they taking the piss?

i got that email too but then got another saying that they had an error?? they said to apply again next year which is a nicer response than you failed to meet the minimum requirements!!! i was disgusted when i read that!

anyone heard back from dillon eustace or maples?

sid4lev

AKK wrote: »

Yup - agree entirely partyguinness but honestly, on a first reading of the PFO it seemed unnecessarily cruel! Of course I know that many will have gotten the exact same one. All the firms could take a leaf out of A Coxes book though: they've the sweetest pfo I've ever seen!

hiya, i got the same email as yourself and theo. Do you have fe1s done? I think that the reason it was worded as it was, is because i will not have my fe1s done before their 2009 start date. The email said to apply for the 2010 intake from next august onwards, further suggesting that that was the reason it was phrased as it was. I think that makes sense unless you or theo have you fe1s done, in which case the opening statement in the email is plain ignorant.

Dillon Eustace got back to successful candidates yesterday and this morning.

AKK

sid4lev wrote: »

hiya, i got the same email as yourself and theo. Do you have fe1s done? I think that the reason it was worded as it was, is because i will not have my fe1s done before their 2009 start date. The email said to apply for the 2010 intake from next august onwards, further suggesting that that was the reason it was phrased as it was. I think that makes sense unless you or theo have you fe1s done, in which case the opening statement in the email is plain ignorant.

Dillon Eustace got back to successful candidates yesterday and this morning.

Perhaps you're right - although I have 6 of the fe1s and I'm confident of passing the remaining two this March/April - though maybe the results won't be issued in time for starting with LKS.....

Gemimahj

Hey, I was just wondering has anyone put any thought into applying to outside of Ireland. As in maybe doing the LPC in England and then a 2 year training contract? I think it costs like 10 grand but it's the same as having to pay for your own Blackhalls, plus I know it's an extra year but realistically the 2009 intakes are now complete so it will now be at least 2010 if not 2011 before starting Blackhall (BCM Hanby Wallace was interviewing for 2011 this year along with others), and not to get into a debate about the recession but is there really going to have been much of a turn around by the time we're qualified, there is a complete over -saturation of solicitors in Ireland at the moment, newly qualified solicitors are in total limbo if they haven't been kept on after their training contract is completed, they are over qualified for legal executive/secretarial roles and there is no work for them as solicitors. I was just wondering if anyone had any info on the process for qualifying in Canada or Australia? Thanks.

drkpower

hada wrote: »

this lark of spending 40 minutes grilling people on aer lingus, public/private sector stimulation, investment opportunities in Ireland is absolute waste of time.

to think they are basing a traineeship entirely on whether a 20something year old has an indepth knowledge (and I mean, indepth - I know for a fact some of these firms wanted much more than a surface knowledge as most would expect) of such things is a farce.

Don't get me wrong, I've always had a damn keen interest in local, national and international affairs, but what type 20 year old does one have to be to pass such an interview?

I'd sure as hell not have passed it when I was 20 and would probably struggle nowadays even.

Its not about the detail; its about the way you react to being asked questions you are uncomfortable with/havent prepared for and the manner in which you formulate your arguments.

sid4lev

Just to let interested parties know that the old thread on askaboutmoney has been re-opened. http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=27367&page=41

Johnny Utah

sid4lev wrote: »

Just to let interested parties know that the old thread on askaboutmoney has been re-opened. http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=27367&page=41

I had a quick look through that thread, and it seems that things are very bad indeed. Some posters claiming that the large commercial firms are only taking on the bare minimum to keep up appearances; 6 NQs at AC being let go; trainees that were due to start in 2009 with WFry are being deferred until 2010; A&L offering trainee solicitors one-year contracts!
Other posters believe that smaller firms are taking on very few trainess for 2009 in comparison to previous years. This is very worrying.

Anyone wanna predict the numbers entering Blackhall in 2009? I reckon it could drop to the 400 mark this year.

newby09 wrote: »

i got that email too but then got another saying that they had an error?? they said to apply again next year which is a nicer response than you failed to meet the minimum requirements!!! i was disgusted when i read that!

anyone heard back from dillon eustace or maples?

I got a second e-mail later as well, which stated the first e-mail was an error and invited me to apply next year, etc.

sid4lev

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I had a quick look through that thread, and it seems that things are very bad indeed. Some posters claiming that the large commercial firms are only taking on the bare minimum to keep up appearances; A&L only offering a training contract for one year!

Hiya! OMG, are you serious about A&L? Are you sure its a one year training contract that they're offering as opposed to one year contract after qualification? Or is your source the thread, the link to which i posted earlier?

Johnny Utah

sid4lev wrote: »

Hiya! OMG, are you serious about A&L? Are you sure its a one year training contract that they're offering as opposed to one year contract after qualification? Or is your source the thread, the link to which i posted earlier?

I think it's a one-year contract post qualification. I don't think that they would be allowed to offer one-year training contracts as this would be against the Law Society's Rules. I found this information on the thread you posted- someone posted a link from an Irish Times article on page 35 of the thread. From the Irish Times article:

"The credit crunch is impacting our legal eagles. Leading firm AL Goodbody is now offering trainee solicitors one-year contracts, in line with its peers. Partners and other senior management are also having their bonsues cut."

TheDemiurge

Although it's easy to view the current problem as local, there is a sharp correction going on within the legal profession everywhere. A good (if downbeat) American website is http://www.endofesq.com/.

Required reading for deluded mammies and daddies everywhere.

Irishlawgirl

Has anyone else received a PFO from Lk Shields? Anyone been called for an interview? I haven't received any PFO. hmmm. What are the chances??

Apparently people are applying to small firms for app'ships saying they'll work for free and pay for b'hall themselves... oh what a wonderful debt they'll qualify into but on the otherhand - i'm guessing qualified is better than being paid in limbo! Anyone toying with the idea of doing a masters.

Someone mentioned qualifying in the UK earlier - if you haven't got your FE1's it really is a good option. I have mine so the UK would really be a last resort. Saying that - literally time is money - waiting around isn't going to qualify me and my FE1's are running out.

I was told recently that there is no firm in Munster taking on trainees - surely that must be a ridiculously gross exageration. I did ring two big firms there and did confirm that they're not taking on anyone for 2009. I think b'hall population could even be something so shocking at 300 !

partyguinness

I have toyed with the UK but only because my g/friend lives there. I had 3 interviews last March but nothing since.

Its even worse over there and about 6 mts ahead.

I have 4yrs pqe and in full employment so I'm just keeping the head down. I am fairly safe, even got a raise but I am not taking anything for granted. A lot of my friends have been let go.

Irishlawgirl

partyguinness wrote: »

I have 4yrs pqe and in full employment so I'm just keeping the head down. I am fairly safe, even got a raise but I am not taking anything for granted. A lot of my friends have been let go.

You're very lucky - 4 years PQE! oh to be in your shoes!! Definitely right about keeping the head down. How scary is this economy. I always thought that no matter what, law was a fairly safe area. Clearly not - and to be looking for an ap'ship in this climate verges on impossible.

partyguinness

I know..if I lost my job I'd be royally screwed..not much chance of a job elsewhere...loans, bills etc

And judging by the fact I have nearly 500 posts on this site mostly since November is indicative of how quiet things are. But there is always criminal, litigation, probate just bits and pieces floating around.

Our Trainee was left go last month when her contract ended.

You see the firms who branched into conveyancing took on more people..now thats gone so obviously they are the first to go.

Imagine I secured my apprenticeship in Feb 2002....only 5 people applied and I was the only one with the FE1s fully completed...and it was advertised in the Irish Times..:eek: for 5 days running..the old days eh?

TheDemiurge

Irishlawgirl wrote: »

You're very lucky - 4 years PQE! oh to be in your shoes!! Definitely right about keeping the head down. How scary is this economy. I always thought that no matter what, law was a fairly safe area. Clearly not - and to be looking for an ap'ship in this climate verges on impossible.

Solicitors themselves have a lot to answer for tbh. It's not just the current climate. The rot for the legal profession set in a good number of years ago. During the bubble, solicitors went into competition with each other and drove conveyancing legal fees down to ludicrously low levels for a such a high level of responsibility and accountability. PIAB sliced a good chunk of PI profits away as well. You can't run a practice in the long term solely on "long tail" litigation and little old ladies's wills for 50 quid, but that's what's happening now.

Warchests have run dry and firms are practically running on credit cards. It's up to solicitors to get it right but somehow I doubt they will.