stovelid wrote: » I would hazard a guess that it's not the sectarianism that he finds embarrassing, rather the fact that you're not a Glaswegian. Let alone an 'opressed' one. Similar to the idiocy of getting behind FC St Pauli on some sort of anti-fascist tip. I abhor the treatment of Palestine but I don't have to support their national team.
Unearthly wrote: » I think you need to realise when people are talking sh-it and know it, they know they have to make up stuff up to back up their lies
Zebra3 wrote: » Show me one club that sells itself to fans as a product.
themont85 wrote: » Every reputable club has to sell itself as a product, such as Man Utd-stadium, quality of player, merchandise, media presence. Nice stadiums, big signings, crest, shirt ect. The quality of football is an element of the product as is the teams league position(however both of these are at the mercy of outside factors), that is why if it is poor the manager gets sacked to rectify the situation. You are looking at the word 'product' through the eyes of a football fan who doesn't believe that it should be treated as such, of which there are a good few of you as evidenced by attendences at underperforming teams/poor teams, however for many it is an entertainment product and as such if the product is poor they will not go.
bobbysands81 wrote: » I mean big matches in the LoI get bigger crowds than smaller matches - right? If so that means that there are fairweather fans in LoI football as well as fairweather fans who follow teams in other countries as well. Are they subject to your wrath as well? (What about the fella (I think it's on this thread) who lives in Mayo and who has been told to support Sligo - would he be "allowed" to claim a deep attachment to his chosen team xx miles away???) After all these are fellas that only go to a few games a year... or is it ok cos the team is Irish? Very parochial mindset.
bobbysands81 wrote: » Also is an LoI team thought of less if they have foreign paid players as is alluded to above?
bobbysands81 wrote: » So are you only a pure LoI fan if your team is amateur, all players are local, you live close to the ground and go to every single match?
bobbysands81 wrote: » What is it about LoI fans that you don't like fans supporting teams in another country? Is it just jealousy? Is a LoI fan allowed to have a second team from a different country that they can go and watch?
bobbysands81 wrote: » Personally I don't really understand how an Irishman or woman can have an affinity with say Chelsea... but if they want to then that's their right, who the hell am I to say they can't do it? I might wonder why they do do it but I wouldn't tell they they can't - what makes you guys so special that you feel you can pass judgement?
bobbysands81 wrote: » bickering as you do constantly on this site is only serving to turn people away from LoI soccer, not towards it.
Pure Cork wrote: » For purists, football is not a product, just like GAA mightn't be considered a product. For a lot of people football is a product, it is sports entertainment, just like WWE.
Jazzy wrote: » omg thats CiaranC, hes so f**kin football
CiaranC wrote: » Im more football than you Now youre getting it
bobbysands81 wrote: » What is it about LoI fans that you don't like fans supporting teams in another country? Is it just jealousy? Is a LoI fan allowed to have a second team from a different country that they can go and watch? Personally I don't really understand how an Irishman or woman can have an affinity with say Chelsea... but if they want to then that's their right, who the hell am I to say they can't do it? I might wonder why they do do it but I wouldn't tell they they can't - what makes you guys so special that you feel you can pass judgement?
stovelid wrote: » This forum should be right up your street. This one is for football supporters.
themont85 wrote: » Hilarious, are you denying that good business practice doesn't get fair weather fans on seats?! Seriousely?! When attracting these fairweather fans, that is the way a CEO or board of a club would look at it. I already splashed Leeds as an example, unfortunately they have dropped down the ladder and a certain percentage of fans has gone with them. Why? Because the football quality has dropped and their not as 'glamorous' to go see i.e their product has gone downhill. Do you not like the word 'product'? Are any business terms too hard for the LoI? If so then the league and proffesional football will continue to stutter. You may be a 'real' football and not like describing football as even a little to do with business. We're not all as great as you, a fan willing to stand there and watch sub standard play in crap stadiums all for the love of the game and a passion for your local team. I've said it once and i'll say it again-Human beings are fickle! The reason 'proffesional' and football in general in this country is so bad is because the FAI and the LoI have had an aversion to any sort of business practice for years. Seemingly the very fans who bitch and moan about them are just as bad. LoI fans don't keep moaning about poor attendences and crap help from administrators if you keep banging the same old drum about 'passion' ect. Blah blah blah, nothing succesful has ever come from it.
themont85 wrote: » LoI fans don't keep moaning about poor attendences and crap help from administrators if you keep banging the same old drum about 'passion' ect. Blah blah blah, nothing succesful has ever come from it.
themont85 wrote: » Why? Because the football quality has dropped and their not as 'glamorous' to go see i.e their product has gone downhill. Do you not like the word 'product'? Are any business terms too hard for the LoI? If so then the league and proffesional football will continue to stutter.
OPENROAD wrote: » What do you suggest they do to get more supporters in?
pablomakaveli wrote: » I'd agree with you when you say a club needs some business pratices as this is common with any club even in the LOI. It's when that club becomes more of a business than a football club the problem arises. Obviously good business practice will draw new fans but a club will need to instill passion for the club in those fans to have them coming back and to become genuine supporters of the club. A club that is purely like a business won't instill passion like a club that is a football club before it is a business.
Gavin shels wrote: » So how do you suggest making LoI more attractive for ignorant barstoolers? Take into account the current economic situation, the few euro's the FAI provide and the poor attendences. I can't wait to see what your answer will be, by the way letting Sky rape us because of our incompentent fools in the FAI won't work like it did in England.:pac:
bobbysands81 wrote: » I'll make it easier... show me one club that doesn't.
SectionF wrote: » If I were looking for good business practice I wouldn't start in football in the first place. Of course business is a critical component, but it's not the be-all-and-end-all. One would have thought that lesson had been learned with the general stutters in the business system over recent months. People of a business-is-all bent are fond of lecturing others about realities. But the basic reality is that, regardless of the best efforts of Rupert Murdoch and his ilk, football still is football, and football is a sport.
themont85 wrote: » . I already splashed Leeds as an example, unfortunately they have dropped down the ladder and a certain percentage of fans has gone with them. Why? Because the football quality has dropped and their not as 'glamorous' to go see i.e their product has gone downhill
themont85 wrote: » . You may be a 'real' football and not like describing football as even a little to do with business.
SligoBrewer wrote: » Leeds fans didn't desert 'their' team 'cause the 'product' standards dropped. They left as there was no opportunity to gloryhunt and suddenly supporting Leeds wasn't as glamourous when they were playing in Plymouth and losing to Histon. This **** about 'the standard of the product' is hilarious. Because every football team's name contain the word 'club'. LC Accounting 101. Club accounts = No profit or losses, only surpluses and deficits. Therefore, if this was kept to, football should never be a business. And yes I am aware I'm being idealistic.
Zebra3 wrote: » Well, my club for one doesn't sell itself as a product. It offers itself as a football club and all the joys and despairs that come with it.
Zebra3 wrote: » For any organisation to exist, it needs to take in more money than it spends.
stovelid wrote: » I'm sure most fans would like more innovation from the FAI (and clubs themselves) when it comes to marketing and developing the game here. The situation is so critical that it's laughable to think in terms of the LOI attracting Munster or Jack's Army type fans; the league needs fans full stop. The league needs the vast majority of 'football mad' males to stop being pathologically ashamed of their own league and start attending at least the odd game, even if it isn't Champions League standard. Liverpool and Manchester United didn't become 'brands' solely on the back of business practise. They were community football clubs, deeply connected with their areas and loyal fans, and became a sporting success as a result. The generations of local support that eventually made (and make) these teams attractive to business practise are the kind of fans that you all enjoy poking fun at here: the fans that supported Newton Heath, the countless Liverpool fans that endured failure and even tragedy, down the years. All Sky and the like did was to market this sense of community and belonging (and of course the success) to fair weather fans globally. What makes me laugh is - as someone who supported United long before Sky came along - the post-Sky lionization of football culture. Soccer AM, football mags, those knowing ads about popular moments in football culture: in the marketing of football, the fans that "are so f*ckin football" are the engine of EPL marketing, yet the equivalent fans in your own country are laughed at as weird cranks for preserving on and "watching sub standard play in crap stadiums all for the love of the game and a passion for your local team". Obviously, the overwhelmingly majority of people here support a big, successful club, and more than likely may have experienced their formative supporting years during the Murdoch boom, so it's natural to always think in terms of product when your allegiance to a team is based on renewing a TV subscription, and you are a fan (as we all are) and are in such close proximity to the biggest league in the world. The fact is that the LOI needs to attract what you deride as 'real' fans before fair weather fans. For me, the investment should be in facilities and improving the match day experience, extending roots into the community and above all, attracting *children* to the LOI, and educating them in the history of football support - a tradition that is still strong in the 99.99% of clubs worldwide that are not massively successful, and in fairness, the super-duper clubs loved all over the world. I don't think the fair weather fans should even be bothered about. They won't come to grounds that are not super-duper; where players are not absolutely top-drawer, because they want to support whoever is successful. We should be trying to bring up future generations of football supporters, and creating genuine fan-bases. The fair weather fans will come, late to the party as ever, if that ever finally happens.
