LivingDeadGirl wrote: » I think the present fourth years will be the first to sit it.
geurrp the yard wrote: » I was thinking along the same lines. I think alot of people that are doing maths for the leaving cert dont auctually know what they doing when solving a problem. I dont see the benefit of memorising formula after formula or rote learning a proof, weres the learning involved? I think there should be a more emphasis on especially in the areas of maths to its applications rather than its memorised way of thinking. Maybe if ICT was introduced to certain subjects,it would combat this problem. Another thing that I found in some subjects when i did my leaving was that i struggled for time finishing the paper. That may well be down to poor time management but whats the harm of increasing the exam time an extra 10 minutes?
Davidius wrote: » When's the new maths course going to be examined anyway?
PurpleFistMixer wrote: » And in general? I'd STOP DUMBING THE COURSES DOWN. If people are failing maths in their droves, I'd bloody well make the teaching, particularly the standard at primary level, better. Making the LC easier is just going to pass the problem on to people failing at 3rd level. Maths should only be fundamentally difficult for people with numeracy-related learning difficulties. Everyone should be comfortable with manipulation of equations by LC at LEAST.
K4t wrote: » Orry Maths and Ordinary Irish should MOST DEFINITELY NOT be compulsory for the Leaving cert. It's a disgrace and a huge disadvantage to those weak at or have no interest in numerical subjects (Re:Maths) and who know that when a subject is dead, it's dead (Re:Irish). People doing Ordinary Irish for the LC either (a) hate Irish and despise everything about the language, mostly due to the way they have been thought it for 6 years, (b) are just not able for higher level because they didn't put in the work or are poor at languages etc. etc. (c) feel the work needed is not worth it for the course they are aiming for. Irish is a dead language and the only people is the Department of Education for the last 70 odd years. Making students do Ordinary Level Maths at LC is a disgrace in my opinion. The course is basically the JC HL course Revised with a few add-ons which 99% of students could care less about. The reason we are doing Ordianry Level is because we hate maths, can't do higher or just don't ****ing need it and know that we'll not ****ing need it when we are living our day to day lives. Why can't I be doing another language instead of Maths (which I already know from JC and will probably never need in later life)? The LC in general? I go to a Catholic Brothers' School unfortunately and we are told all of those 'true' stories about girls and boys who went crazy from smoking cannabis for a minute blah blah blah :rolleyes: Basically, I think Religion should be kept out of school and philosophy thought instead. We might not have fools like David Quinn writing in our newspapers and spreading his bull **** propaganda either.
Fad wrote: » Reason for keeping Irish=Preservation, its becoming increasingly relevant......
K4t wrote: » I personally was always in the top 5 in a class of 30 at maths right through primary school. I obtained a B in the JC at higher level. I did HL LC maths up until February of 5th year and was completely lost but more importantly, had absolutely 100% no interest in what the teacher was writing on the board everyday, Sure, I could have got grinds once a week, spent three hours at maths on weekends, devoted part of my life to that one subject. But would it be worth it? Not a chance in hell. And I am just speaking for thousands of fellow ordinary level maths pupils all across Ireland. So don't give me that crap about it being taught better because I could have Albert Einstein standing in front of me and I'd still be falling asleep at the sight of x,,y, sin Log............. I'm much happier studying my history and English which I feel is just as important as HL Maths (and which many of my HL maths friends often bemoan from JC memories). I have an adequate knowledge of maths from my B at HL JC and I am quite sure that will suffice in later life, as it has thousands before me.
Fad wrote: » Reason for keeping Irish=Preservation, its becoming increasingly relevant......However, at the expense of receiving a higher standard of education is a disgrace. It should never have been made a compulsory exam subject in the first place. End of. We're only doing OL because we hate it/cant do it/need it? Nah I quite like Maths, think I'd be well able for it (HL), but just would rather not allow it to impinge upon my other subjects , so instead I took religion.Which is why OL being compulsory makes no sense. You should be able to do your Religion without having to do OL maths. You do know that a pretty huge proportion of philosophy stems from religion, I do religion (and am an Athiest), and I think its a fantastic subject, its easy enough, it touches on things that I'd never know about...However, I think you'll find that around 90% of children living in Ireland are Catholic! Surely we should be educated in philosophy (which you quite rightly point out links back to religion) and then be allowed to make educated decisions about what religion, if any, we want to follow? Keeping X out of the newspapers? Thats Censorship, not something you wanna encourage. The reason I mentioned that journalist is because he believes "secularism" is the reason for the problems in society in Ireland today and that "atheists" are not as charitable as religious people. But you're right, we don't want censorship like that which was advocated by the Catholic Church itself not so long ago Of course we don't want censorship now though you're right.
-JammyDodger- wrote: » I'd agree with most of what K4t said anyway. I absolutely hate doing Irish, wish I could drop it. And because I've never given it time, it probably has a chance of ruining my chances of going to college. Even though I want to do Maths in college, and even if I got 600 points, I still couldn't get into the course without a silly OD3 in a language that I just can't understand nor want to do. Thats just ridiculous, in my opinion. You are damn right. As regards maths, I suppose a good option would be to make JC HL a tiny bit harder, and let that count as your LC OL pass. That way, people who hate maths/don't need it wouldn't have to spend time with it during LC, and they would have already gained the relevent knowledge from doing it for the JC.
PurpleFistMixer wrote: » I think you missed my point somewhat. The standard of teaching (and examination) at lower levels should be increased, as you have clearly demonstrated, there's too large a jump between JC and LC. So if you were getting 100% throughout the years of lower education, you should do similarly well at higher levels, and not suddenly start failing.
K4t wrote: » However, at the expense of receiving a higher standard of education is a disgrace. It should never have been made a compulsory exam subject in the first place. End of. Which is why OL being compulsory makes no sense. You should be able to do your Religion without having to do OL maths. However, I think you'll find that around 90% of children living in Ireland are Catholic! Surely we should be educated in philosophy (which you quite rightly point out links back to religion) and then be allowed to make educated decisions about what religion, if any, we want to follow? The reason I mentioned that journalist is because he believes "secularism" is the reason for the problems in society in Ireland today and that "atheists" are not as charitable as religious people. But you're right, we don't want censorship like that which was advocated by the Catholic Church itself not so long ago Of course we don't want censorship now though you're right.
Cokehead Mother wrote: » "Dia duit, a Shíle! Ar bhfaca tú an scannán Pirates of the Carribean: The Curse of the Black Pearl?!" "Sea! Ó tá Johnny Depp dathiúl".
K4t wrote: » Even if everybody could make the jump PFM, where would the good in it be? We would all be genius mathematicians. Is that what the Irish government wants, is that what the world needs? Of course not. We need our mathematicians and accountants but we also need our English and French teachers, our History and Art teachers. JC has given students the basic understanding in maths. And that should be that. If some students wish to pursue their interests in that subject then let them. I'm not stopping anyone. But why make the student who has no interest in the subject and knows he/she will never need the subject in later life be made do the subject? It actually beggars belief. The jump is indeed a big one and one which the majority of students cannot make, which in my opinion is fine. Let them study things they are interested in like languages, sciences, business subjects etc.
geurrp the yard wrote: » Fad wrote: » I agree with most (if not all) of your post As you say, with things like Maths, I'd love to actually know what I'm doing. Like differentiation at OL is insanely easy, but I have no idea what I'm doing, I know I'm supposedly measuring the rate of change of two variable or something, but how am I doing it, why isnt there any explanation. Had I knew that things would be adequately explained to me, I would have absolutely done HL. The HL course is meant to be insanely long though. QUOTE] I was thinking along the same lines. I think alot of people that are doing maths for the leaving cert dont auctually know what they doing when solving a problem. I dont see the benefit of memorising formula after formula or rote learning a proof, weres the learning involved? I think there should be a more emphasis on especially in the areas of maths to its applications rather than its memorised way of thinking. Maybe if ICT was introduced to certain subjects,it would combat this problem. Another thing that I found in some subjects when i did my leaving was that i struggled for time finishing the paper. That may well be down to poor time management but whats the harm of increasing the exam time an extra 10 minutes? Someone mentioned a oral english exam, I think thats a great idea. Nice and practical! Communication skills are very important in most aspects of every day life and way more beneficial than quoting something out of macbeth in a language(olde english) that no one speaks. I think they've increased the time this year for a few subjects... But what your saying about time management. Do you not think maybe there shouldn't be a time limit? I know it may seem a bit crazy but I know a lot of pretty smart people who, in tests, know so much and want to write it down that they don't finish a q they know really weel. This prob. happens in the actual LC to a few ppl. So maybe there should be a time limit of 4 hrs for a ppr that prob. should only take 3hr 30 (inc. reading q's etc.). This would help those sort of ppl out. And if u finish b4 the 4th hr, u can jus leave. Just a thought?!:cool:
Fad wrote: » I agree with most (if not all) of your post As you say, with things like Maths, I'd love to actually know what I'm doing. Like differentiation at OL is insanely easy, but I have no idea what I'm doing, I know I'm supposedly measuring the rate of change of two variable or something, but how am I doing it, why isnt there any explanation. Had I knew that things would be adequately explained to me, I would have absolutely done HL. The HL course is meant to be insanely long though. QUOTE] I was thinking along the same lines. I think alot of people that are doing maths for the leaving cert dont auctually know what they doing when solving a problem. I dont see the benefit of memorising formula after formula or rote learning a proof, weres the learning involved? I think there should be a more emphasis on especially in the areas of maths to its applications rather than its memorised way of thinking. Maybe if ICT was introduced to certain subjects,it would combat this problem. Another thing that I found in some subjects when i did my leaving was that i struggled for time finishing the paper. That may well be down to poor time management but whats the harm of increasing the exam time an extra 10 minutes? Someone mentioned a oral english exam, I think thats a great idea. Nice and practical! Communication skills are very important in most aspects of every day life and way more beneficial than quoting something out of macbeth in a language(olde english) that no one speaks.
-JammyDodger- wrote: » I'd definitely try and increase the emphasis on understanding in subjects like maths, physics and chemistry etc. It's funny, ask people in an honours maths class about topics such as vectors or calculus, and most of them just assume they're made up for school; they don't understand that they actually have real applications (Maybe that's just indicative of the kind of people who do honours maths in my school, but I assume is like that in most places).
-JammyDodger- wrote: » When I was in TY, I asked my physics teacher why is it that the left hand rule actually works, his reply was "as far as you're concerned, it's magic". Another question I asked in chemistry in TY about why atoms really bond together to form molecules resulted in the answer "don't bother asking questions like that, just learn what's in front of you and it'll get you your A". I think both of those responses epitomize what's wrong with leaving cert physics and chemistry, if not all subjects. I know now that even if the teachers had answered me, I wouldn't have understood the answers, but that's not the point.
Myth wrote: » Get rid of the bonus points for doing subjects through Irish.
-JammyDodger- wrote: » I'd definitely try and increase the emphasis on understanding in subjects like maths, physics and chemistry etc. It's funny, ask people in an honours maths class about topics such as vectors or calculus, and most of them just assume they're made up for school; they don't understand that they actually have real applications (Maybe that's just indicative of the kind of people who do honours maths in my school, but I assume is like that in most places). I think it was PurpleFistMixer who already said about learning; I'd try and get people to learn for the sake of learning; not just because we need to for exams. As has been said numerous times, I'd stop dumbing down subjects. It's ridiculous; subjects like physics and chemistry, and to a lesser extent honours maths, are so simple it's retarded; people wishing to do science or maths in college have a huge shock before them (Not that I do science or maths in college yet, but I happen to know what some of it is like). And I'd agree with dividing English into two subjects: Literature and Language. That's about it I think.
creggy wrote: » Have an English oral exam
K4t wrote: » Orry Maths and Ordinary Irish should MOST DEFINITELY NOT be compulsory for the Leaving cert.
-JammyDodger- wrote: » And when I think about it, I really think maths should be kept compulsary. What would letting it be an option subject result in? No engineers or scientists, because I'm sure 90% of people would drop it if they could.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://w8.vanillicon.com/v2/8a8a40f5256da0c5cecb625a58bc7796.svg)
