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Lisbon 2: prepare to bend over and recieve ur destiny!

skelliser

So we're gonna get a second referendum on the lisbon treaty!
Hooray for democracy!

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FionnBaguh

Quote:
Originally Posted by FionnBaguh

I'll be voting no again, and this time just in spite of bad democracy.

That just doesn't make sense.

Well, I think we decided if we wanted the lisbon treaty already. We dont. There's plenty normal people in europe who are damn happy we voted against, considering there governments didnt even give them a chance to vote.

Ace2007

<3BeingIN6th wrote: »

That just doesn't make sense.

Names and proof, please.
No conjecture or hearsay. Just solid proof.
Can you provide that?

obv your not aware of what goes on in the world of politics and money,

i assume he is referring to the bank bail out - alot of top bank men (i don't want to give names) bought up millions and millions of bank shares before they met the government and told them that they need the guarantee etc - very next day - government gave the guarantee - shares went up - these guys sold the shares and made millions - but the general public don't know this - you have to be in the "circle" to hear this pieces of information, the didn't break the law - as it cannot be inside trading as they had no guarantee that it was a dead cert - other than the fact the government was never going to let to banks go under - you - see its like puttin a gun to someone's head - everyone always hands over the money so your not riskin that much...

Sam Vimes

Ckal wrote: »

Oh! I didn't mean "here we go again" as in it's you again. I just hate the "affecting the lives on 500 million people" line.

ah right. well they are being affected. it's not fair to europe and makes us look like a pack of retards if we take out our frustation with the irish government on the lisbon treaty. the irish government is a domestic issue, not a european one. people seem to think that the only reason to vote yes is as a favour to brian cowen or something

ben bedlam

DaDumTish wrote: »

I too will be voting NO so this government is taken out ,

if thats what it takes to get rid of them then fine so be it .

this bunch of morons WILL FALL if lisbon 2 is no again .

guaren-fcuking-teed

Im looking forward to it .

Agreed. Cowens authority will definately be gone after a second rejection. At the very least, Cowen will no longer be taoiseach

FoldedShirt

<3BeingIN6th wrote: »

Did you ever have an option to vote for Libertas?

What does that have to do with the Lisbon Treaty?

For the record, I don't think voting No because you don't like the government is a valid reason. However, not trusting the government could be argued as such because they negotiated it.

Voting Yes because you don't like Libertas or Sinn Fein has absolutely nothing to do with the Lisbon Treaty. And yet the Yes-side seem to think it's a valid argument while criticising No-voters for voting for irrelevant reasons.

Sam Vimes

DaDumTish wrote: »

I too will be voting NO so this government is taken out ,

if thats what it takes to get rid of them then fine so be it .

this bunch of morons WILL FALL if lisbon 2 is no again .

guaren-fcuking-teed

Im looking forward to it .

how can you guaren-fcuking-tee that? it's a ridiculous suggestion. who will make them go? the european parliament? the US military? jesus? because those same idiots who voted for them last time will still vote for them next time. what on earth makes you think that all that ****e they've done to the country while they've been in power isn't enough to turn people against them but supporting a european treaty that every other party except sinn fein supports will suddenly open their eyes?

edit: and cutting off your nose to spite your face is exactly what this is. the place to voice your opposition to the government is in a general election. this is a european referendum. see the difference? do you see how dragging our domestic issues onto the european stage and holding back the whole of europe because we don't like brian cowen makes us look retarded?

justcallmetex

Sam Vimes wrote: »

exactly. i'm voting yes because i like cheddar cheese but not edam. damn edam!!! It's my entitlement as a citizen

I tought you were gone?

Sam Vimes

justcallmetex wrote: »

I tought you were gone?

i really have to stop opening this thread. i keep getting sucked in when people make f*cking ridiculous statements like a dislike of brian cowen has f*cking anything to do with how we should vote on the lisbon treaty. i keep forgetting that there is no way i'm going to change any of your minds

the real reason i keep posting is because all these points about the unelected elite and how brian cowen should be a factor are making the whole country look like idiots. it's damaging our image in europe because we're holding everyone else back because of our own domestic issues and i don't want to be associated with people who can't understand that the lisbon treaty has nothing to do with fianna fail

i'm sure there are valid reasons for voting no but i have yet to see one that was actually true and we're going to end up looking like the ian paisley of europe, always saying no to everything because of our own prejudices

Terry

Ace2007 wrote: »

obv your not aware of what goes on in the world of politics and money,

i assume he is referring to the bank bail out - alot of top bank men (i don't want to give names) bought up millions and millions of bank shares before they met the government and told them that they need the guarantee etc - very next day - government gave the guarantee - shares went up - these guys sold the shares and made millions - but the general public don't know this - you have to be in the "circle" to hear this pieces of information, the didn't break the law - as it cannot be inside trading as they had no guarantee that it was a dead cert - other than the fact the government was never going to let to banks go under - you - see its like puttin a gun to someone's head - everyone always hands over the money so your not riskin that much...

You assume he's talking about people who made some money?
Damn capitalists.

justcallmetex

<3BeingIN6th wrote: »

That just doesn't make sense.

Names and proof, please.
No conjecture or hearsay. Just solid proof.
Can you provide that?

Here's some info on the bailout you've not heard of

http://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/Companies/ByEvent/Fundraisings/Analysis/article/20081217/d0309d66-cb9b-11dd-a7ab-00144f2af8e8/Irish-banks-set-for-E10bn-state-bailout.jsp

And here Harney telling us the health service is in for Savage cuts

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2008/1217/1229035813644.html

I'm sure this is quite a shock for you but maybe you need to face up to reality

justcallmetex

<3BeingIN6th wrote: »

You assume he's talking about people who made some money?
Damn capitalists.

Nope he's spot on couldn't have put it better

justcallmetex

Sam Vimes wrote: »

i really have to stop opening this thread. i keep getting sucked in when people make f*cking ridiculous statements like a dislike of brian cowen has f*cking anything to do with how we should vote on the lisbon treaty. i keep forgetting that there is no way i'm going to change any of your minds

wouldn't trust him to stir a bucket of sh1te

Sam Vimes

justcallmetex wrote: »

wouldn't trust him to stir a bucket of sh1te

you wouldn't trust brian cowen? well great, fantastic, neither would i. but that has f*ck all to do with the lisbon treaty

My name is Mud

@ Sam Vimes

Im also through with this thread. Its the most bizarre thing. Its one of those Ireland things I have a feeling.

And for everybody's information

To get rid of a government, you have 2 main options. One is consititutional, the other is not.

Option 1 - Consitutional: An Election.
If you want to have a new government, vote for them in a general election. FF are in power, as the majority of people VOTED for them in the last general election. Thats how it works. You have a problem with what the people voted? Tough, people are idiots. See this thread for confirmation.

Option 2 - Unconstitutional: Coup d'etat
Best explanation here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d'%C3%A9tat
You will need backup of the millitary for ultimate success.

If you think an EU referendum is the way to go...all the best with that. Never gonna happen.

If you want to protest about the government, protest to the morans that voted for them, i.e. yourselves.

Terry

justcallmetex wrote: »

Here's some info on the bailout you've not heard of

http://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/Companies/ByEvent/Fundraisings/Analysis/article/20081217/d0309d66-cb9b-11dd-a7ab-00144f2af8e8/Irish-banks-set-for-E10bn-state-bailout.jsp

And here Harney telling us the health service is in for Savage cuts

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2008/1217/1229035813644.html

I'm sure this is quite a shock for you but maybe you need to face up to reality

So the banks were not bailed out and their share prices dropped.
Amazing.
That's quite the opposite of what you said earlier.

As for Harney, well we all know she's quite incompetent, but how does that have anything to do with the Lisbon treaty?

justcallmetex

My name is Mud wrote: »

@ Sam Vimes

Im also through with this thread. Its the most bizarre thing. Its one of those Ireland things I have a feeling.

And for everybody's information

To get rid of a government, you have 2 main options. One is consititutional, the other is not.

Option 1 - Consitutional: An Election.
If you want to have a new government, vote for them in a general election. FF are in power, as the majority of people VOTED for them in the last general election. Thats how it works. You have a problem with what the people voted? Tough, people are idiots. See this thread for confirmation.

Option 2 - Unconstitutional: Coup d'etat
Best explanation here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d'%C3%A9tat
You will need backup of the millitary for ultimate success.

If you think an EU referendum is the way to go...all the best with that. Never gonna happen.

If you want to protest about the government, protest to the morans that voted for them, i.e. yourselves.

Oh I like option 2!!!!!

Jimpsta

Sam Vimes wrote: »

how can you guaren-fcuking-tee that? it's a ridiculous suggestion. who will make them go? the european parliament? the US military? jesus? because those same idiots who voted for them last time will still vote for them next time. what on earth makes you think that all that ****e they've done to the country while they've been in power isn't enough to turn people against them but supporting a european treaty that every other party except sinn fein supports will suddenly open their eyes?

edit: and cutting off your nose to spite your face is exactly what this is. the place to voice your opposition to the government is in a general election. this is a european referendum. see the difference? do you see how dragging our domestic issues onto the european stage and holding back the whole of europe because we don't like brian cowen makes us look retarded?

Are you STILL pretending that you have abdicated this post? Come on man you dis-credit yourself with each and every post?

ShooterSF

<3BeingIN6th wrote: »

You assume he's talking about people who made some money?
Damn capitalists.

That would be closer to fraud than capitalism. (Off-topic)

Kashkai

The point is that there should in no way be a protest vote against the Government in the next Lisbon referendum because the "opposition" would be campaigning for exactly the same outcome as the FFer's, i.e. a YES vote.

Its safe to say that the country is sick of the present incumbents/incompetents but that is irrelevant to Lisbon 2. Kenny/Gilmore would also have caved into pressure from Brussels for a second referendum despite what the citizens of Ireland stated in their vote.

If you want to kick Cowan in the nuts, then the local elections next year is your first opportunity, the european elections will be your second opportunity and the general election in 2012 your ultimate goal.

Lisbon 2 should be decided on its merits and that is will we do what Brussels wants like in Nice II or will we say "what part of No did you have a problem with the first time?"

justcallmetex

<3BeingIN6th wrote: »

So the banks were not bailed out and their share prices dropped.
Amazing.
That's quite the opposite of what you said earlier.

As for Harney, well we all know she's quite incompetent, but how does that have anything to do with the Lisbon treaty?

we can find a ten billion fund for the banks but not the health service? you seem surprised people will be voting out of protest?

Darragh29

My name is Mud wrote: »

@ Sam Vimes

Im also through with this thread. Its the most bizarre thing. Its one of those Ireland things I have a feeling.

And for everybody's information

To get rid of a government, you have 2 main options. One is consititutional, the other is not.

Option 1 - Consitutional: An Election.
If you want to have a new government, vote for them in a general election. FF are in power, as the majority of people VOTED for them in the last general election. Thats how it works. You have a problem with what the people voted? Tough, people are idiots. See this thread for confirmation.

Option 2 - Unconstitutional: Coup d'etat
Best explanation here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d'%C3%A9tat
You will need backup of the millitary for ultimate success.

If you think an EU referendum is the way to go...all the best with that. Never gonna happen.

If you want to protest about the government, protest to the morans that voted for them, i.e. yourselves.

There are many ways of protesting, if I don't like the government and want to give them a kick in the naads in a referendum, that is a legimitate form of protest. This is just one of many reasons I have for voting no on Lisbon, some related to the treaty, some not related.

I'm sending a message to the government that if it wants my cooperation, it has to be earned and shouldn't be taken lightly.

Sam Vimes

Jimpsta wrote: »

Are you STILL pretending that you have abdicated this post? Come on man you dis-credit yourself with each and every post?

what? honestly i don't know what you mean

Sam Vimes

Darragh29 wrote: »

There are many ways of protesting, if I don't like the government and want to give them a kick in the naads in a referendum, that is a legimitate form of protest. This is just one of many reasons I have for voting no on Lisbon, some related to the treaty, some not related.

I'm sending a message to the government that if it wants my cooperation, it has to be earned and shouldn't be taken lightly.

give the government a kick in the nads, i'm all for it. i'll be standing in line behind you. but must you bring the rest of europe into it? can you not find a more appropriate way of doing it that doesn't make it look like we'll make europe grind to a halt every time we have a domestic issue?

niceirishfella

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

The point is that there should in no way be a protest vote against the Government in the next Lisbon referendum because the "opposition" would be campaigning for exactly the same outcome as the FFer's, i.e. a YES vote.

but, that will not happen. Lets be realistic here. People here are pissed, real pissed off.
Ripp off's, high cost of living,redundancies daily,dole queues lengthing, the ANGER is palpable and a Yes vote will be hard to obtain by the Government even with the support of its opposing parties. Anyone who lives here in on this Soil (and not posters who post here from foreign countries) can witness and feel the despair.:(
Its a worry.

justcallmetex

Sam Vimes wrote: »

give the government a kick in the nads, i'm all for it. i'll be standing in line behind you. but must you bring the rest of europe into it? can you not find a more appropriate way of doing it that doesn't make it look like we'll make europe grind to a halt every time we have a domestic issue?

A Europe wide vote would reject the Treaty we're representing those people

Kashkai

niceirishfella wrote: »

but, that will not happen. Lets be realistic here. People here are pissed, real pissed off.
Ripp off's, high cost of living,redundancies daily,dole queues lengthing, the ANGER is palpable and a Yes vote will be hard to obtain by the Government even with the support of its opposing parties. Anyone who lives here in on this Soil (and not posters who post here from foreign countries) can witness and feel the despair.:(
Its a worry.

Oh I know that there will be a protest vote (there shouldn't be - people should vote no on democratic grounds, i.e. we said no first time and it wasn't respected by our "betters") and the Government also realise this and thats why they have put the date for the new referendum back to next October when they hope public anger will have disappated somewhat - the great unwashed have short memories and thats why FF have been voted in three times in a row.

Sam Vimes

niceirishfella wrote: »

but, that will not happen. Lets be realistic here. People here are pissed, real pissed off.
Ripp off's, high cost of living,redundancies daily,dole queues lengthing, the ANGER is palpable and a Yes vote will be hard to obtain by the Government even with the support of its opposing parties. Anyone who lives here in on this Soil (and not posters who post here from foreign countries) can witness and feel the despair.:(
Its a worry.

and so we end up looking like the tiny little trouble makers who keep stopping european progress and costing european money because we make them suffer because we don't like our government. another no vote will make it three times we've voted against a european treaty. how many more times do you think we can do it before we lose the "goodwill of our neighbours"?

(that's not directed at you, it's for everyone)

thelordofcheese

justcallmetex wrote: »

A Europe wide vote would reject the Treaty we're representing those people

S'funny. I thought being arrogant was meant to be the defining trait of the YES side.

Sam Vimes

justcallmetex wrote: »

A Europe wide vote would reject the Treaty we're representing those people

would it now? well jesus if you already know that why even bother having a referendum? why don't we just ask justcallmetex the next time we have to vote on something and save all that hassle.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

here are my reasons - I dont agree with lisbon , and i voted no last time
but im willing to reconsider if we get bound consessions - and the presnt gov is gone.

( 3rd way to get rid of a government - make it look powerless in the eyes of the world )

1/ the gov cannot be trusted - they have p1ssed all over democracy - and treated it with the contempt they hold for the people of ireland.

2/ the gov are incompetent puffed up fat cat buffoons - who treat the people they are voted in to serve - as their own cash cow servants .

3/ the gov needs to go for the good of the country

4/ if the gov go and a new fresh one put in - lisbon will pass - fact.

( not a fan of enda, but anything is better than the present w@nkers - no contest - dont even try to suggest otherwise )

as it stands - this gov is doomed to lose again , be booted out of power , and ireland booted out of europe .

if the gov resigns now - we have a chance at rebuilding both the country and our standing in europe
with a fresh gov and a yes vote.

so will our gov do its patriotic duty and resign - ? will they fcuk !

oh , and

5/ arent you gone from this thread Sam ?