tedstriker wrote: » Great, a nice point there. I think that discussion of everything is great but you obviously don't agree with that so fair enough. You have a right to vote no on that point but personally if I had your views then I would consider that the other impacts of the Lisbon treaty would further outweigh this one but each to there own.
Nigsy wrote: » They are probably re-registering, having been banned for stating their anti-EU opinions, see OscarBravo on the politics forum.
AlmightyCushion wrote: » If you have a problem with the politics forum moderation take it to somewhere someone actually cares like the helpdesk. Not here though.
tedstriker wrote: » From what I am reading there is an element of the NO voters who are fearful of a repeat vote, now with added assurances, because the last time they argued issues that subsequently turned out to be utter rubbish. Issues about abortion, neutrality etc. If people really understood the treaty then these issues wouldn't exist. Can someone give me one fact about the Lisbon treaty that will stop them voting in favour. Nothing to do with the government, nothing to do with job losses, nothing to do with how undemocratic it is to vote??. Someone give me something solid as to why they honestly believe that the Lisbon treaty as is will now be presented has more negatives than positives for Ireland and for Europe.
skelliser wrote: » heres one! article 6 states that for the treaty to come into effect it most be ratified by all countries before 1st of january 2009. This cannot now happen and by there own admission they cannot re-open the treaty.
Lisbon Treaty wrote: "ARTICLE 6 1. The Union recognises the rights, freedoms and principles set out in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union of 7 December 2000, as adapted at Strasbourg, on 12 December 2007, which shall have the same legal value as the Treaties. The provisions of the Charter shall not extend in any way the competences of the Union as defined in the Treaties. The rights, freedoms and principles in the Charter shall be interpreted in accordance with the general provisions in Title VII of the Charter governing its interpretation and application and with due regard to the explanations referred to in the Charter, that set out the sources of those provisions. 2. The Union shall accede to the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. Such accession shall not affect the Union's competences as defined in the Treaties. 3. Fundamental rights, as guaranteed by the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms and as they result from the constitutional traditions common to the Member States, shall constitute general principles of the Union's law."
Nigsy wrote: » I see the Sunday Independent newspaper has another scam poll today. What a shock, their own "independent" poll has found people to be in favour of a YES vote for Lisbon 2. These people have some neck, they are nearly as laughable as the EU fat cats.
Nigsy wrote: » ... EU fat cats.
WooPeeA wrote: » Really? What kind of sovereignty? Ireland kept all the borders, laws, constitution, army etc etc.. What does it mean to lose sovereignty? Lisbon Treaty will give almost all power to elected by us Parliament.
the-island-man wrote: » "A sovereign power has absolute sovereignty if it has the unlimited right to control everything and every kind of activity in its territory!"-wikipedia Has the irish goverment unlimited power to set its own fishing quotas or abolish fishing quotas?........nope Has the irish goverment unlimited right to award contracts to whom ever it wants ?.....nope has the irish goverment unlimited power to sell any of its semi-state owned bodies like aer lingus? .....not untill the E.U rule on whether or not its against E.U compettion law so no i don't think we have complete sovereignty!
Valmont wrote: » If this gets shot down again, I'm emigrating.
Ckal wrote: » If this goes ahead, I'm emigrating.
ben bedlam wrote: » youll be a big loss
skelliser wrote: » ya i know but according this: In accordance with its Article 6, the Treaty will have to be ratified by the Member States in accordance with their respective constitutional requirements and will enter into force on 1 January 2009, provided that all instruments of ratification have been deposited, or, failing that, on the first day of the month following the deposit of the last instrument of ratification.http://consilium.europa.eu/cms3_fo/showPage.asp?id=1296&lang=en
ejmaztec wrote: » Could Ireland survive outside the EU? Nope.
the-island-man wrote: » What was 1916 for so? Our ancestors obviously thought that we could survive outside the great superpower of that time that was Great Britain!
OPENROAD wrote: » A very very different time and different world.
the-island-man wrote: » What was 1916 for so? Our ancestors obviously thought that we could survive outside the great superpower of that time that was Great Britain! Look i don't want to give off a vibe that i am anti european but we are first and foremost irish citizens and we make our own luck! We need leaders with vision not someone who would tell us that "we must respect the people, the people have spoken" and then turn around and tell us we need to speak again! Maybe someone should tell Brian Cowen to get a hearing aid!:)
the-island-man wrote: » Yes i agree we wouldn't have to fight for our freedom this time, all we would have to do is opt out of the E.U! I suppose to do that though we would have to vote out the current coalition of Fianna fail with a green tail that resembles sewerage more than a green party!
the-island-man wrote: » Yes i agree we wouldn't have to fight for our freedom this time, all we would have to do is opt out of the E.U!
ejmaztec wrote: » Owing to the uncertainty resulting from the incompetent way our glorious leader handled the last referendum, a re-run is the sensible thing to do. As I've mentioned a number of times, the more power the EU has over Ireland, the less chance there is of the future being screwed up by the Dail's inability to run a piss-up in a brewery.
