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Are 85% of you really Christians?

nobodythere

So according to the census 85% of Irish people are Christians. I call bull****, there's no way that that many people in Ireland call themselves Christian.

There's all the people that don't go to church, don't pray, don't know much about that Jesus, don't take gareth37 very seriously (:p entertaining innit?) and aren't sure about the whole God thing. Yet they put it down when the census man comes knocking...... why?

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Ross_Mahon

I am Atheist, But i wouldn't mind being a Jedi for the craic!

ordinary_story

I'm baptised church of Ireland NOT roman catholic but am still christian. It doesnt matter either way I'm not practicing.
I feel its in the same league as asking someone are they going for a drink, it doesnt really matter if they drink or not

toiletduck

Ro: maaan! wrote: »

It's the equivilant of an atari jaguar option

Good idea! I put down "No religion" but next time it's Atari Jaguar all the way :pac:

Galvasean

My household has four people in it. One atheist, one agnostic, one deist and a non-practicing 'Catholic'.
Yet, when the non-practicing 'Catholic' filled in the form (never asked me about it BTW) she said all 4 were Christian. Apparently this happens a lot.

People ask "What difference does it make?" I'll tell you what difference it makes. If the Government is (incorrectly) told by it's people that 85% of the people in it's country are Christian then it will make important decisions (that effect everybody) in favour of the perceived Christian uber-majority.
Apparently less than 5% of Ireland's people marked 'non religious' on the census form. From the Government's perspective that is a tiny fraction of the populace and therefore one of the last groups that will be considered when making decisions.
So, my non-religious brethren, we must make our voices heard and take the census form back from the mammy!

Aodan83

toiletduck wrote: »

Good idea! I put down "No religion" but next time it's Atari Jaguar all the way :pac:

How many people do you think we could get to put in atari jaguar as their religion in the next census?

Galvasean

Aodan83 wrote: »

How many people do you think we could get to put in atari jaguar as their religion in the next census?

Dyr

ordinary_story wrote: »

I'm baptised church of Ireland NOT roman catholic but am still christian.

well... just about

murfie

OK hold it, disrespecting peoples religion and right to put down whatever they please on a census form is not on. Calling people sheep and idiots because of their religious view is more close minded and biased than the people you claim are religious and you brand this way yourselves!
I am by no means a perfect christian/catholic and I rarely go to church but i consider myself christian and would write that on a form asking me because I have freedom to do so and wont be called a sheep for my beliefs!

Galvasean

murfie wrote: »

OK hold it, disrespecting peoples religion and right to put down whatever they please on a census form is not on. Calling people sheep and idiots because of their religious view is more close minded and biased than the people you claim are religious and you brand this way yourselves!

Can you point me in the direction of those in this thread calling people idiots?

murfie

Zebra3 wrote: »

It's idiots who answer that they are catholic when they are not that allow the papists to control too much of education.

I dont want to single people out but here you are. If I consider myself a catholic non practising or whatever who has a right to tell me that I cant but that on a census form. Thats as bad as the bible beaters that go around saying you must believe in god!

Prof.Badass

Galvasean wrote: »

My household has four people in it. One atheist, one agnostic, one deist and a non-practicing 'Catholic'.
Yet, when the non-practicing 'Catholic' filled in the form (never asked me about it BTW) she said all 4 were Christian. Apparently this happens a lot.

i'd say it does. I'm down as catholic because my mam is extremely religious and i could never admit it to her while i'm still living at home. I'd say loads of people are in the same boat.

Also, people who put themsleves down as "jedi" or whatever are just ruining it for themselves.because at the end of the day, they're bringing down the official number for non-religious people which is way lower than it should be. Those without religion really need to say this on the census so we can be taken account of.sadly i can't do this untill i've moved out.

ShooterSF

murfie wrote: »

I dont want to single people out but here you are. If I consider myself a catholic non practising or whatever who has a right to tell me that I cant but that on a census form. Thats as bad as the bible beaters that go around saying you must believe in god!

He called people an idiot for putting down a religion when they dont believe in it.
He didnt call people an idiot for their beliefs.
And only right as lying on a consensus is a stupid thing to do.

murfie

alright i see where he was coming from, sorry for that and reading it in that context i would agree, people should be truthfull on a the form. But the stats are probably closer to accurate than people would think, in my opinion as people may not be practising but still consider themselves as christian.

fryup

the way i look at it is this...

you've got your catholics and you've got your protestants...who just go through the motions

and then you've got the ones who take it seriously i.e. the born again christains

went to one of there meetings before and ive could have screamed with boredom & frustration everyone was so reserved & squirrely... i mean come on don't take it so seriously!!

ShooterSF

fryup wrote: »

the way i look at it is this...

you've got your catholics and you've got your protestants...who just go through the motions

and then you've got the ones who take it seriously i.e. the born again christains

went to one of there meetings before and ive could have screamed with boredom & frustration everyone was so reserved & squirrely... i mean come on don't take it so seriously!!

Murfle now feel free to fire ahead

Biggins

No.

I didn't get a choice when I was born. Now that I have an ability to chose, no.
I want to be no part of an organisation that is possibly corrupt to the core in what I have read and learned.

I do believe in treating others as you would have them treat you. (That sums it up in a quick nutshell)

knoxor

Just a question for anyone who is a non-practicing Christian. Why are you non-practicing ?

If I was a racing driver and stopped racing, I wouldn't consider myself a racing driver anymore.

Biggins

knoxor wrote: »

Just a question for anyone who is a non-practicing Christian. Why are you non-practicing ?

If I was a racing driver and stopped racing, I wouldn't consider myself a racing driver anymore.

Just because you believe in a "god" or whatever - turning up phyically to a building on a regular basis proves nothing!

You can be a religious moral person by your daily acts and thoughts.
Turning up once a week at a building to hear a man dressed in a frock and throw coins in a basket, does not make you a Christian either!

Acting with a good Samaritan outlook and subsequent actions, I'd consider anyone of such traits, to be a more "Christian practising" person, not the person just turning up at a building just because its said somewhere it MAKES you a good Christian.

knoxor

Just because you believe in a "god" or whatever - turning up phyically to a building on a regular basis proves nothing!

You can be a religious moral person by your daily acts and thoughts.
Turning up once a week at a building to hear a man dressed in a frock and throw coins in a basket, does not make you a Christian either!

I agree with you there.

I'm trying to hone in on the definition of what a Christian is. You seem to have your own belief system, based around Christian principles, is this in essence what a Christian is ?

Would another Christian have taken a different set of those same beliefs and called themselves a Christian as well ?

If this is the case, can they all be called Christians when they may have vastly different belief systems ?

I'm playing devils advocate here (excuse the pun)

ordinary_story

I seem to remember from alot of american television, being a good person meant you were being christian but I think alot of that was because of thir ignorance of other faiths.

HalloweenJack

Me and my sister are both declared non-theists. My brother describes himself as a lapsed Catholic and my mother hasn't been to mass in years but would still call herself a Catholic.

Despite that, she always writes that we are all Catholics on the census.

I think, considering our history, most people here cannot accept not having a religious identity.

knoxor

I seem to remember from alot of american television, being a good person meant you were being christian but I think alot of that was because of thir ignorance of other faiths.

A lot of Christian beliefs are about doing good to one another. The Old Testament has some horror stories in it which I think any Christians would find abhorrent.

Going back to our OP, 85% of people saying they are Christian in the census, is interpreted by the Govt. to mean that the population requires state funding of religious based schools. This means that the state will not fund secular schools.

I for one would not want my children to be taught religion in school. I think religion is a personal thing and if people have one, it should be taught by the family.

If you believe in your religion enough, you should take time out to explain your beliefs to you children.

cornbb

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Me and my sister are both declared non-theists. My brother describes himself as a lapsed Catholic and my mother hasn't been to mass in years but would still call herself a Catholic.

Despite that, she always writes that we are all Catholics on the census.

I think, considering our history, most people here cannot accept not having a religious identity.

I'd have no problem in describing myself as an atheist. While many of my moral views would overlap with christian morals (as they would overlap with islam morals, buddhist morals etc), I'd reject the notion that I am a catholic because I was essentially born a catholic. But a lot of people think that if you have a baptism cert the catholic church somehow have a claim on you for life, I'd strongly disagree with that. Its up to the individual to choose what they think their religious affiliations are.

Biggins

cornbb wrote: »

I'd have no problem in describing myself as an atheist. While many of my moral views would overlap with christian morals (as they would overlap with islam morals, buddhist morals etc), I'd reject the notion that I am a catholic because I was essentially born a catholic. But a lot of people think that if you have a baptism cert the catholic church somehow have a claim on you for life, I'd strongly disagree with that. Its up to the individual to choose what they think their religious affiliations are.

Thank you. That's exactly how my wife and I feel. Well put.
We will be hoping to share to our offspring the same thoughts.
(We refused to have them into a force baptism and into an organisation we both felt was not acting in the manner befitting the teachings they would have the rest of us live by)

knoxor

I'd have no problem in describing myself as an atheist. While many of my moral views would overlap with christian morals (as they would overlap with islam morals, buddhist morals etc), I'd reject the notion that I am a catholic because I was essentially born a catholic. But a lot of people think that if you have a baptism cert the catholic church somehow have a claim on you for life, I'd strongly disagree with that. Its up to the individual to choose what they think their religious affiliations are.

There's a network called the Brights. They are promoting a naturalistic view of the world and trying to be a voice in politics etc for those of us who have no religious beliefs.

http://www.the-brights.net/

cornbb

Biggins wrote: »

Thank you. Thats exactly how my wife and I feel. Well put.
We will be hoping to share to our offspring the same thoughts.
(We refused to have them baptised into an organisation we both felt was not acting in the manner they would have ourselves do)

Great, the more parents that do this the better - my own parents paid lipservice to the whole catholic thing, they brought us to mass etc despite not believing an iota of the whole catholic thing themselves. This was so we would not be ostracised in a rural, very conservative community, which makes sense.. But if more parents take the plunge and are not afraid of raising their kids without a religious affiliation when they don't believe any of it themselves then maybe we can get rid of this stigma.

Obviously if devout catholic parents want to raise their kids as catholic thats fine, thats their own business. But for everyone else to be doing it just because its the "done thing" is wrong, in the grand scheme of things.

fryup

cornbb wrote: »

Obviously if devout catholic parents want to raise their kids as catholic thats fine, thats their own business. But for everyone else to be doing it just because its the "done thing" is wrong, in the grand scheme of things.

the done thing..you're right there

in ireland being catholic is more clanish /tribalistic than a spiritual/religous thing

its all to do with our colonial/sectarian past imo

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Biggins wrote: »

Turning up once a week at a building to hear a man dressed in a frock and throw coins in a basket, does not make you a Christian either!

I find that comment extremely insulting and narrow-minded.
I accept your spritual views and agree with most of your philosophy on living a good life but why paint such a twisted image of mass going Catholics and the attitude of the Cathloic Church in general?

OctavarIan

Thread needed a poll

I really hope more than 85% of the population of Ireland are Christian. 15% is too many people who are out of touch with our Lord and Saviour. When I'm out and about now I won't be able to stop myself feeling a bit sad that 15% of the people around me aren't feeling the warmth of our Lord, and that their lives aren't touched daily by His love.

I think any of you that are disbelievers should find someone to show you to the Light, I myself would be honoured to guide some of you if you just drop a PM

cornbb

fryup wrote: »

the done thing..you're right there

in ireland being catholic is more clanish /tribalistic than a spiritual/religous thing

its all to do with our colonial/sectarian past imo

Yep. Its the same with our politics. In the vast majority of other countries, people choose between the main parties based on their political/ideological views. In Ireland there are no ideological differences between our 2 main parties, a lot of people are still voting along "tribal" lines, as you put it.