gazzer wrote: » I dont get what you are trying to say!. The point is I DIDNT want to disobey him. Why would I have wanted to disobey my father? I had great respect for him and I knew he was only doing what he did for my own good. He wasnt beating ten types of ****e out of me so that I would have a fear of him. He used words and actions to show me what was right and wrong.
Darragh29 wrote: » This is nothing to do with East Wall, no more than 2 Polish men stabbed to death by kids last March had anything to do with Drimnagh. In a few months time when it happens again, it will be someone else, it's not something that's in the water in these communities...
Darragh29 wrote: » No, I think the father has failed if ever there was a failure, to teach his kid respect for: (1) Firstly himself (the kid in question), by allowing the kid to hang around with scumbags in the area. Why did this kid not have the opinion, "hang on, I want to do something with my life and have a future, not hang out with local scum shooting people dead"??? (2) His family. (3) His community. This kids father and mother are an utter failure. If they have other children, they should be taken off them and put into care for fear they are also running around with loaded handguns and might start shooting innocent citizens dead.
ALFIET wrote: » Fair play Mairt, Eastwall IS an area full of hardworking and decent folk including my own family who also made the decision to leave it. Since then I have since moved on to what is considered a respectable affluent area and yes, we have our own problematic teenagers. Some who try to emulate the actions of the older teenagers but are generally good kids underneath it all. If they are caught and tackled now, hopefully they will have a shot! Some of the teenagers unfortunately are little gurriers who deserve to have the book thrown at them for what they are doing to people in my neighbourhood including mothers with their children, elderly etc etc I dread having to face the difficulties parents these days are facing trying to bring up teenagers ( either girls or boys - each as bad) and sympathise with those who are geniunely trying their best. but if we take the conversation focus away from the area of Eastwall and focus more on the bigger picture of Ireland today - do we not need to take action of some description and i am not taking baying crowds roaming the streets! I mean politicians, gardai, legislation, educational system, communities as a whole, parents etc etc As i said earlier i live near some really problematic teens and i know myself how hard it is to 1. live there and not feel threatened but 2. actually tackle the issue. Fear is a terrible thing. But i work hard and want to bring children into a safer environ. and dont want to stick my head in the sand any longer. My frustrations stem from the inability to be able to do anything constructive.... or at least my perception of inability.
Mairt wrote: » And you think that kids father raised him to use handgun's and shoot innocent people?.
Mairt wrote: » Eastwall is like a lot of communities in this country, but I'll tell you what its not. Its not an urban sprawl, its not an inner city ghetto. Its not piss poor like some people will have us believe. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted I took my family out of the area. But it ain't the picture being portrayed in the media.
ALFIET wrote: » So as a parent of a teenager what would you do if you kid started getting into trouble (god forbid, i pray this doesnt befall you) - What do you suggest? !
ALFIET wrote: » What would your kid suggest we do to try to stop this?!
Dragan wrote: » Was your father a great role model? Sure sounds like it. Could you have disobeyed him if YOU wanted to. Of course you could.
Dragan wrote: » LoL, and you didn't go to school with a single kid who was a little cnut but had decent parents, and if you turn around in 5 years time and, for whatever reason, turn to crime then that is your Father's fault? Will you please get real Darragh.
gazzer wrote: » Sorry but I dont buy that. He is not like my father. Its his responsibility to know what his child is up to. I grew up in O'Devaney Gardens in the 80's where there was 80% unemployment. My father got involved in running the local soccer team, my mother got involved with countless community groups. Both tried their very best to help the children in the area. They and other parents like them could only do so much. Unfortunatley a lot of parents in the area used it as a babysitting service so they could go off drinking or taking drugs etc while their children were being looked after by responsible people. If I was told I had to be in by 9pm then by god I had to be home by then. If my mother or father looked out and couldnt see me in the area one of them would walk around and look for me and see who I was with. They didnt just let me walk outside and think their work was done. They were proactive and made sure they knew where I was and that I wasnt up to anything dodgy. T
ALFIET wrote: » Oh my god, seriously wot do you suggest? I am a realist and appreciate that there are difficulties on every side but that doesnt give us the right to ignore the issue or try to rectify the issue. Do you honestly not believe that there has to be SOME (not ALL) accountability for a parent for the actions of a 13 yr old...
Dragan wrote: » I imagine this line nicely devalidates whatever the rest of your post says but i'll read on anyway because i'm a glutton for punishments. I was right.
gazzer wrote: » If I was told I had to be in by 9pm then by god I had to be home by then. If my mother or father looked out and couldnt see me in the area one of them would walk around and look for me and see who I was with. They didnt just let me walk outside and think their work was done. They were proactive and made sure they knew where I was and that I wasnt up to anything dodgy. T
Darragh29 wrote: » I am in my boll*x talking BS mate. You tell that to the family of the man lying in a morgue fridge this morning. He's not like any father I know. Father's I know have not reared kids that are running the streets at night with a handgun. And don't think I live in some posh town, I grew up in Ballyfermot in the 80's when nobody had a pot to p*ss into and the whole place was out of control, heroin was everywhere. I didn't fall into that scene because I was brought up better.
Darragh29 wrote: » I grew up in Ballyfermot in the 80's when nobody had a pot to p*ss into and the whole place was out of control, heroin was everywhere. I didn't fall into that scene because I was brought up better.
Mairt wrote: » His father is a close family friend of my in-laws, and he's like any other father of any other teenager anywhere in the world. He's destroyed, he's lost and wondering whats happened and how. .
Darragh29 wrote: » He's not like any father I know. Father's I know have not reared kids that are running the streets at night with a handgun. And don't think I live in some posh town, I grew up in Ballyfermot in the 80's when nobody had a pot to p*ss into and the whole place was out of control, heroin was everywhere. I didn't fall into that scene because I was brought up better.
Mairt wrote: » Yes there was a public meeting. But it wasn't called SOLELY because of anti-social behavious in the neighbour. It was to discuss ongoing problems like traffic, empty/unsold apartments in new developements, flood defences (some parts of Eastwall experience almost annual flooding). The reports people are reading are not reported in their full context. Listen, there's a load of little bastards running wild down there. Some come from great families, others from families who would have been put to sleep if they were dogs. Eastwall is like a lot of communities in this country, but I'll tell you what its not. Its not an urban sprawl, its not an inner city ghetto. Its not piss poor like some people will have us believe. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted I took my family out of the area. But it ain't the picture being portrayed in the media.
Mairt wrote: » You know what, your talking BS.
Mairt wrote: » You don't know the situation in Eastwall, within an hour of this shooting most people heard the name of the shooter. His father is a close family friend of my in-laws, and he's like any other father of any other teenager anywhere in the world. He's destroyed, he's lost and wondering whats happened and how.
Darragh29 wrote: » Because according to reports I'm reading this morning, the rest of the fu*king community noticed it to such a degree that they held a public meeting within the last 2 weeks with Gardai and local representatives and predicted at this meeting that someone in the community would be killed???
ALFIET wrote: » I find it hard to accept living in a civilised economy where parents are not made accountable to their responsibilities as parents!
Dragan wrote: » And how do you know the kid was not making the parents life hell as well? So, we have a whole community who allowed local kids to run amoke and cause terror and they want to blame the parents for their own inability to stand up for themselves?
RedPlanet wrote: » Don't try dumping this off onto schools. Their job is to educate, not disipline. These kids are a disruptive influence in their schools and administrators need to be able to expel them; but the reality is the Dept of Education undermines them, the kids don't get expeled and the entire school and education system suffer.
Darragh29 wrote: » As I said, what the fu*k were these parents doing while their kid was running the streets with a handgun??? Were they down in the pub??? Did they not notice that their kid was out of control??? Because according to reports I'm reading this morning, the rest of the fu*king community noticed it to such a degree that they held a public meeting within the last 2 weeks with Gardai and local representatives and predicted at this meeting that someone in the community would be killed??? So the rest of the community have noticed this, but this kids own parents didn't notice that their kid was so out of control, that someone's life was at risk??? All I'm asking is, at what point does the whole community say, "ah here, we've had enough of this!"???
ALFIET wrote: » Seriously??? Ok so parents dont know exactly wot their kids are up to 100% of the time, granted!
And i am not in favour of vigilantism or marching on anyones home. Everyone has a right to be safe in their own home. HOWEVER, parents have to hold SOME of the accountability for their childrens actions esp when those children are under 16 yrs of age! I find it hard to accept living in a civilised economy where parents are not made accountable to their responsibilities as parents! But this is more than just about the parents. It is about crime and punishment! ASBOs dont work! They are like badges of honour. The Punishment needs to fit the crime! And is it not a little strange that a 19 yr old woman wants to hang around with a 13 yr old kid..... or is that just me remembering being that age?
Dragan wrote: » I am curious as to why you feel the parents would know what their kid was doing, and why you would plan on marching a **** load of people to the home of two folks who have recently had to deal with the fact that their 13 year old sun was involved in a murder?
Darragh29 wrote: » When the name of the kid involved, who shot this man comes out, the whole country should picket his parents house and stay outside the house until such time as his parents can offer an explanation for this, it's an absolute fu*king outrage. If anyone knows of a public protest for this, please let me know.
