Tingle wrote: » Wouldn't be able to add any value on running advice but one aspect you could look at his strength (as in a gym as opposed being able to do hills!) even with weights or without weights? Its something often overlooked by most middle-distance athletes and it can really make a difference and doesn't have to be a big time consumer. Do you currently do strength work?
tergat wrote: » Hi cfitz, First of all I had a look at your PB's and compared them below per 400m which can tell us where your strengths are and also your weaknesses: 4.21 (69.6 per 400m) 9.19 (74.5) 16.17 (78.1) 34.03 (81.7) Looking at them your endurance is better than your basic speed. Im guesing you cant bang out a very fast 800m.
tergat wrote: » Your route forward is to keep developing your aerobic system while working on 1500m-5km pace in small doses. If you can improve your 1500m time your 3000m time will come down. I suggest the following:
tergat wrote: » - Running 6 days a week with one rest day This is what I have been doing except for this year I would also do 2 or 3 morning jogs of 25 minutes - Never do more than 2 workous in a 7 day block Check - 1 Long Run weekly starting at 70 mins and working towards 1 hr 40 mins on hills Currently do all my long runs on flat courses. 70 to 1:40 is precisely my range though. - 1 weekly workout of CV reps (5km pace per km plus 10 secs) these work on both Vo2 max also also improving Lactate Threshold. Aim to do 6000m-8000m worth of reps. e.g. 6-8*1000m with 90 secs jog recovery and afterwards do 4*200m @ 1500m pace with 90 secs recovery This is a bit different to what I had been doing, and it looks interesting. - Focus Dec-Mar on 1 hill session and 1 track session at 5km-10km pace every other week. In the past I would have done maybe 4 weeks of hill sessions followed by 4 weeks of long intervals, rather than interchanging them. - The rest is easy running 50-60 mins with strides added twice weekly at roughly 1500m pace I had been considering adding in strides after my runs, it seems to be popular among the top runners in my club anyway. Come Apr-Jul you can start adding workouts at 1500m-3000m pace. Hope that helps a bit, remember the key is consistant training and staying injury/illness free. Theres no big secrets. Do this until the summer and you will improve. Tergat
tergat wrote: » Always do 4*200m at current 1500m pace after the CV reps. If you do this weekly you will see a dramtic improvement.
Mr Mister wrote: » Can you give us some background on your current training schedule cfitz so we can critique on that rather than you starting to try something completely new
Racing Flat wrote: » Great advice above, Tergat. Can I ask, what is the purpose/benefit of the 200s after the long reps? Thanks.
Mr Mister wrote: » Looks ok but a few things I would note straight off.....you need to incorporate another session/workout into your week, most likely on the Saturday.
cfitz wrote: » Just before I got injured I had added in the second weekly session, I had purposefully left it out during the base phase. Do you think there should be two sessions in the week even in the early phases of training?
cfitz wrote: » I normally do some push-ups, sit-ups and back extensions after my evening runs. One day per week I would do circuit training - 3 sets of 10 exercises, 30 seconds on 30 seconds off. Most of the exercises aren't that tough. None of them involve free weights or machines, they're just things like lunges, squats etc. I do a small amount of core stability work once per week also.
tergat wrote: » Make sure your long runs are done on hills, will improve leg strength which will in turn help with basic speed. Remember the 3000m according to the most up to date research is roughly 85% Aerobic so speed endurance and strength endurance are the key. The fast interval work at 1500m-3000m pace is just the icing on the cake.
tergat wrote: » Also very important if you are willing to do things right is: - Good diet I stay away from junk food and don't eat that much processed food. I eat a lot of fruit. - Plenty sleep Probably a bit short here, I'd say usually about 7 hours. - Massage weekly This would be more like monthly for me. Do you think weekly would make my training easier? - 70% of your training on soft surfaces Almost all my training is on a nice grass surface (but it's a short lap (800m), so more turns than I would like) - Belief in you ability Well I definitely believe I can go a lot faster than 9:19 - the ability to race better than you train Yes Tergat
Mr Mister wrote: » All of Tergat's advice is very very sound. If you stick by that you wont go far wrong. What I would recommend is to get in and do your sessions with a group of 9 minute ish runners. There are a few such groups in Dublin - Raheny, Clonliffe, DSD and Rathfarnham all have good groups of runners of varying abilities that would bring you on no end. You would probably be better off doing less reps/distance than sub 9 guys and gradually build up.
tergat wrote: » The CV reps are vital to any runner from 800m to marathon. For you about 6-8km worth of reps is about right so you can go like this: -6-8*1000m with 90 secs jog rec (Done at current 5k pace plus 10 secs per km) - 5-6*1200m with 90 secs jog rec - 4-5*1600m with 90 secs jog rec
cfitz wrote: » I am not in Dublin and I train with a small group (3 other guys) and sometimes that means training on my own. It's a great group and they're all faster than me on the track (8:15, 8:43, 8:57). I sometimes think it would be great to have a big group to train with but I don't think it's really an option for me at the moment.
Mr Mister wrote: » I am just wondering why no one recommends more miles as a way to improve anymore? Why does everyone these days seem to recommend weights, plyos, core instead of just running a few extra miles a week. If you have the time and energy for these its all well and good but at the end of the day (I hate that phrase!) the best training for running IS running.
Mr Mister wrote: » Without trying to sound smart, surely you can look at what these guys are doing and see what works for them. That doesnt mean copy their training but they are a great asset to you in terms of seeing the type of hard work that goes into a performance like 8.15 for 3k
Racing Flat wrote: » I'd say that most of the people who have responded to this thread would take it as understood that doing weights, plyos etc is done on top of an optimal mileage for that person - ie they are doing as much as they should be doing
Mr Mister wrote: » One thing I would comment to you tergat is that is there a need to do 200's after a session of 1k's...especially if you are doing strides on 2 other days? Also, I just feel in my own opinion that you might hold back a bit too much on the k's to leave something for the 200's? The last thing I would want after a hard 8k worth of running on a cold night is to recover and do some 200's. Just my own opinion.
ss43 wrote: » This is what I'd suggest:Aerobic runs: start out easy but work up the pace to hit around 3:55 average for last 3k or so. Start out with 35-40 mins and increase the time for a few weeks. When the time gets to 55-60mins go back to 40 but at a faster pace, eg, getting up to 3:40-45 at the end. Don’t get caught up in the times though. Certain factors change from day to day, they’re just guidelines.Recovery Runs: really really easy. The aim is to get the blood flowing and aid recovery not wear you out. Don't worry if fat girls run past you, it's a recovery session.
ss43 wrote: » Structure:Mon: Aerobic run 40-60 mins, progressing to a good pace. Strides/Hill sprints. Core workTue: Vo2 max sessionWed: am: recovery run pm: aerobic run like Monday. Strides. Core.Thurs: am: Aerobic run pm: Circuits. Squats (progress to squat jumps), Lunges (progress to with weights, then to split lunges where you jump from one to the other), Press-up etc. Alternate each exercise with a sprint, stride or hill sprint.Fri: rest/recovery runSat: am: AnT run. Pm: recovery run. CoreSun: Long Run 70-90 Most of what ha been said seems to be good advice.