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Should weed be legal?

Plugged In

The W.I.T are staging a debate whether weed should be legal in Ireland, what are your thoughts?

Legalise Cannabis Ireland v W.I.T Law Society
Wednesday 12th of November
7:30 The Gallery W.I.T (Cork Road Campus)

“This house believes that Cannabis should be made legal in this state”

W.I.T and www.pluggedin.ie are proud to present a debate which so many Irish citizens have strong opinions on. This night will see two teams of three debating the various arguments. The debate will be judged by a panel of three people consisting of High Court Judge, Tom Teeghan; Ex-Minister for Finance, Alan Dukes and also a legal representative from Waterford.

For years this debate has been burning on a world wide scale, between members from every corner of society. During this time, governments in countries such as The Netherlands, Canada, The U.K. and Belgium have taken steps toward a more liberalised view of cannabis by either totally decriminalising possession of the drug, or declassifying it’s possession to a minor crime. On the other end of the scale, the U.S has declared an all out war on drugs, introducing harsher laws and stiffer sentencing for those involved.

The arguments both for and against the legalisation are numerous and compelling. On one side you will hear arguments informing you that marijuana is a “gateway” drug, use of which will ultimately lead to stronger substance abuse. The pro weed lobbyists, on the other hand, will argue for the economic benefits to our country in these trying times, such as taxation and regulation. Legalisation opponents will tell you that long term subjection to marijuana use will lead to many health problems including dependency and mental illness, while marijuana supporters will urge you consider the medical advantages this plant can bring to relieve the suffering of chronic illnesses such as cancer.

Those who wish to keep this plant illegal want to deter the public from embracing marijuana in the same fashion our country has embraced the alcohol culture, stressing that our NHS and Gardai will face extraordinary expenses to repair the costs of legalisation on our society. However, those on the other side will strive to inform you of the importance of the most versatile plant on earth, hemp, and its many economic and social benefits.

This debate aims to educate the public on both sides of the argument and we hope the public will leave with an educated opinion based on both facts, not government scare mongering, from pro-weed lobbyists and the cold harsh truths from legalisation opponents, rather than the wishful thinking of pot smokers.

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Comments

Jazzy

never seen folk starting a fight on blow.

alcohol is far more deadly. causes untold amount of ****. its a culture problem imo. hash is lightweight compared to wat makes hassle in this country.

$Photo of DonkeyStyle \o/$ DonkeyStyle \o/

I hear spliffs are going up 50c in the next budget.

Toiletroll

Study clears cannabis of schizophrenia rap

Regular readers will recall the confused mess that is this government’s cannabis policy. There has been a drop in cannabis consumption since it was downgraded from Class B to C, but nevertheless they want to put it back up to Class B again. Yes, we know all about the argument that what you ingest is entirely your business, it being your body and all that but morals are always trumped by politics.
In the comments section to our last piece the general consensus was that the policy was driven either by a craven servility to the Murdoch press or, as a daring alternative, a bending to Daily Mail woo woo. The general consensus however was that it was Puritanism, that awful fear that someone, somewhere, might be enjoying themselves and that this situation cannot be allowed to continue. We’re arguing over whose Puritanism, not whether.
There was one vaguely respectable argument that could be put forward on the prohibitionist’s side, that of cannabis induced schizophrenia. This has been increasing even as the general incidence of schizophrenia has been stable (or even falling, depending upon who you ask). That the rise was on the order of 500 people a year means it’s not a very important point, not when compared to 3 million regular tokers, but there are still those who will buy the argument that people should be stopped from harming themselves, even if the risks are very low.
There is certainly a correlation, but we should still want to know about causation before we take any further action. For it is possible, and it is a view advanced by some (like myself last time), that those who are about to become schizophrenic dose themselves on cannabis as they are known to on alcohol and any other substance that comes to hand to still the voices. Or perhaps there’s a milder version, that cannabis induced psychosis isn’t in fact cannabis induced at all, but is simply coincidental: that it’s an early marker of schizophrenia rather than something brought on by cannabis itself.
When we try to test this we also want to be very careful indeed about our sample groups. We really don’t want to be making the mistake that the World Health Organisation has been making with HIV testing in sub-Saharan Africa. Testing pregnant women to give you the incidence of a sexually transmitted disease in the general population really ain't all that clever: you’re testing the one group of the population where you have actual proof that they’ve been partaking in unprotected sex. It might be useful to get an idea of scale, but it's just not going to be all that accurate.
Fortunately, all of this is just what some scientists have done (sadly, the full paper is not online for free access). We know that there is a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia (more accurately to three different conditions that we'll, for convenience sake, group together here). If we’re lucky we can also find a decent data set which we have indeed got, some 2.25 million Danes born between 1955 and 1990, and we know both their own treatments for either cannabis induced psychosis or for those varied schizophrenic type diseases. We can also track their familial relationships and see which of them did or didn’t suffer in these manners. Excellent, we can now try to test our correlation. Do people who have had cannabis induced psychotic episodes then go on to develop schizophrenia at a higher rate than their genetic predisposition (as evidenced by their familial incidence of schizophrenia) would lead us to believe they would?
Well, looking at the 609 who had treatment for such pot induced freakouts and those 6,476 who were treated for the full blown nastiness, well, umm, no. Formally:

In terms of estimated rate ratios, persons who develop cannabis-induced psychosis are as predisposed to schizophrenia spectrum disorder and other psychiatric disorders as those who develop schizophrenia spectrum disorder without a history of cannabis-induced psychosis.

URL="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/06/cannabis_psychosis_study/"]source[/URL

Plugged In wrote: »

The W.I.T are staging a debate whether weed should be legal in Ireland, what are your thoughts?

Legalise Cannabis Ireland v W.I.T Law Society
Wednesday 12th of November
7:30 The Gallery W.I.T (Cork Road Campus)

“This house believes that Cannabis should be made legal in this state”

W.I.T and www.pluggedin.ie are proud to present a debate which so many Irish citizens have strong opinions on. This night will see two teams of three debating the various arguments. The debate will be judged by a panel of three people consisting of High Court Judge, Tom Teeghan; Ex-Minister for Finance, Alan Dukes and also a legal representative from Waterford.

For years this debate has been burning on a world wide scale, between members from every corner of society. During this time, governments in countries such as The Netherlands, Canada, The U.K. and Belgium have taken steps toward a more liberalised view of cannabis by either totally decriminalising possession of the drug, or declassifying it’s possession to a minor crime. On the other end of the scale, the U.S has declared an all out war on drugs, introducing harsher laws and stiffer sentencing for those involved.

The arguments both for and against the legalisation are numerous and compelling. On one side you will hear arguments informing you that marijuana is a “gateway” drug, use of which will ultimately lead to stronger substance abuse. The pro weed lobbyists, on the other hand, will argue for the economic benefits to our country in these trying times, such as taxation and regulation. Legalisation opponents will tell you that long term subjection to marijuana use will lead to many health problems including dependency and mental illness, while marijuana supporters will urge you consider the medical advantages this plant can bring to relieve the suffering of chronic illnesses such as cancer.

Those who wish to keep this plant illegal want to deter the public from embracing marijuana in the same fashion our country has embraced the alcohol culture, stressing that our NHS and Gardai will face extraordinary expenses to repair the costs of legalisation on our society. However, those on the other side will strive to inform you of the importance of the most versatile plant on earth, hemp, and its many economic and social benefits.

This debate aims to educate the public on both sides of the argument and we hope the public will leave with an educated opinion based on both facts, not government scare mongering, from pro-weed lobbyists and the cold harsh truths from legalisation opponents, rather than the wishful thinking of pot smokers.

Toiletroll

oztots wrote: »

I like my drugs Tax Free thanking you kindly.

It would be cheaper than paying for it on the street and safer! Who knows that sort of crap is in unregulated substances!!

Toiletroll

dsmythy wrote: »

Lock threads that talk about this subject and direct the starters to others. It's just the same arguments for the next 5-10 pages and then people start insulting each other.

Maybe more and more people wants it legalised...

Having topics with 50,0000 pages does not get a persons point across and new topics are required.

Dont like them or if you are offended by them in any way then please refrain from clicking on them. You might have less stress

LIVE!!!!!!!!!

Toiletroll

Mena wrote: »

I'd say no, should not be legal. People are fcuking stupid and need to be protected from themselves.

OMG... Do you want to come into my life and make decisions for me? Just try it!

macdknife

Gu3rr1lla wrote: »

Yes it does! Marijuana is high in THC (tetrahydrocannabinol) - which makes people "high" whereas Hemp contains another cannabinoid called CBD (cannabidiol) which has the opposite effect - it doesnt make someone "high" but instead awakens the brain and the nervous system. If you were to smoke the equivilent of 13 cigerettes containing Hemp it would be like taking laxative! The amount of fiber in hemp will make anyone **** not get "high"! lol!

This is why marijuana growers go to great lengths to seperate their crops from hemp crops because if they cross pollinate it decreases the potency of the THC. For example, if you have marijuana with 30% THC and only like 1% CBD that amount of CBD will cancel out the effect of THC. Same with the company Green Giant and their sweet corn. If their sweet corn gets cross pollinated with any other corn it decreases its sweetness.

Its actually very immature that governments do not recognise the differences between marijuana and industrial hemp. Its like poppyseeds on bagels and opium. Hemp can change an economy around completely. We wouldnt have had developed so much if it wasnt for cannabis. The bible was written on hemp paper. The declaration of independence (americas & irelands) was written on hemp paper. Thomas Jefferson owned acreages of hemp farms. Just shows the irony of it. During World War II, 6 years after making it illegal, the American government started a propaganda campaign encouraging farmers to grow hemp. They wouldnt have won the war without it.

I know the differences between hemp and marijuana, THC and CBD etc. But as far as I was aware there was just no effect of smoking hemp. no high, no low, no opposites just nothing. Im not an expert or anything, thats just what I thought.
Anyway that aside I agree with everything your saying, hemp is one of the versatile plants on earth. Probably THE most versatile and economically beneficial actually. I really believe it has the ability to turn an entire economy around if the close minded morons that cast it aside would just educate them selves.

Hey Guerilla read Jack Herer - The Emporer Wears no Clothes. Its a brilliant read, tells you everything you need to know about the plant. Thats if you havent already read it.

Prof.Badass

Fiona Thoughtless Quadruped wrote: »

I do tolerate cannibis as it is a plant, grows natural and does not contain chemicals. Hashish on the other hand may contain other ingredients which can be harmful. I cannot see this drug being legalised any time soon, although I have heard that it has been made legal in WN in the states?

cannabis does contain chemicals, thc for one. This whole "natural is best" thing is bull$hit. There's plenty of poisinous plants out there.

Pure chemicals taken in the same dose are always safer than plant material. Chances are if a plant produces mind altering chemicals then it also has other not so nice chemiclas in it (this is true even for cannabis).

It's not some sort of pharmaceutical conspiracy, there really is a reason why your doctor will tell you to take an aspirin rather than drink some williow bark tea.

Plugged In

The debate is tonight. Hope people can make it down.

ScumLord

Lol, I just heard a government dude on the radio say "we can't go around making things illegal just because their bad for you" He was talking about cigarettes and why they're not illegal and ordinary lightbulbs are.

It was Joe Duffy I think, I was in someones else office.

Can't get down to this. I'd have to have left work by now.

Will ye be putting vids on youtube?

Nichololas

Fiona Thoughtless Quadruped wrote: »

Cannibis may also contribute to being lazy?

I've heard unsubstantiated rumours that alcohol contributes to being drunk, although it's probably just wishy-washy scientific nonsense.

Fiona Thoughtless Quadruped wrote: »

I do tolerate cannibis as it is a plant, grows natural and does not contain chemicals. Hashish on the other hand may contain other ingredients which can be harmful. I cannot see this drug being legalised any time soon, although I have heard that it has been made legal in WN in the states?

What? Of course it contains chemicals, otherwise it wouldn't do anything.. Proper hash is just processed cannabis plant material, it's 'soapbar' that contains all sorts of muck and should be avoided.

edit: And it's not legal per-se in the U.S., although it has been approved for medical use in 14 states.

Plugged In

Legalise Cannabis Ireland won the debate. It was a great night and had well over a 100 people attend to watch. The debate will be put up on you tube next week so I will post the link when I have it.

joenailface

well i'm glad to hear ye won anyway, ye also won the poll here...says something about what us citizens think about our governments opinion. If weed made people stupid and lazy then the chinese would have been ****ed, they're doing alright though. The number i heard of overdosing on weed was something like '15000 joints of white widow in 20 minutes' if ANYONE can do that...they'll have my eternal respect :P whats the toxicity of alcohol? i know thousands of people die as a result of it every year in ireland, same with ciggarettes. Oh by the way new zealand is bringing in a law in 2017 that will ban tobacco sales in their country, the american goverment banned alcohol (before they banned weed) which they eventually had to unban because of the black market it led to. While im not positive im fairly sure cutting drug dealers out of the equation with regards pot would be a good thing, teenagers dont have dealers, they go to the shop and get weed and then get high, where as they go to a dealer he can quite easily say 'dya want anything else? pills, coke?' which i would call a gateway effect, so their law to protect us from this 'gateway drug' actually creates the scenario in which it is a gateway drug, ironic. As for the health arguements, i've found fiber glass in irish weed yet in amsterdam i had nothing but pure weed, im no doctor but i imagine fibre glass isnt the best thing to be smoking

TPD

joenailface wrote: »

well i'm glad to hear ye won anyway, ye also won the poll here...says something about what us citizens think about our governments opinion. If weed made people stupid and lazy then the chinese would have been ****ed, they're doing alright though. The number i heard of overdosing on weed was something like '15000 joints of white widow in 20 minutes' if ANYONE can do that...they'll have my eternal respect :P whats the toxicity of alcohol? i know thousands of people die as a result of it every year in ireland, same with ciggarettes. Oh by the way new zealand is bringing in a law in 2017 that will ban tobacco sales in their country, the american goverment banned alcohol (before they banned weed) which they eventually had to unban because of the black market it led to. While im not positive im fairly sure cutting drug dealers out of the equation with regards pot would be a good thing, teenagers dont have dealers, they go to the shop and get weed and then get high, where as they go to a dealer he can quite easily say 'dya want anything else? pills, coke?' which i would call a gateway effect, so their law to protect us from this 'gateway drug' actually creates the scenario in which it is a gateway drug, ironic. As for the health arguements, i've found fiber glass in irish weed yet in amsterdam i had nothing but pure weed, im no doctor but i imagine fibre glass isnt the best thing to be smoking

I got some glass powder in a bag once too. Horrible gritty feeling on the teeth, and who knows what kind of damage it does to the lungs. I'm glad that LCI won the debate, but I can't actually see any change coming from it.

The only way I could see anything changing here is if Obama counts legalising weed as one of his 'changes', but I dont know enough about his policies to actually hope for that. Ireland definitly wouldnt have the balls to pass a law like that unless someone bigger did it first.

ScumLord

That weed with the glass in it was everywhere including Amsterdam coffeeshops. But I wouldn't be surprised if most of it eventually ended up here because we'll accept any old muck in our drugs.

There's no way in hell Obama would legalize weed. The fundamentalist Christians would deffenetly have a pop at him for that. Remember there was still nearly 50% of the population that didn't want Obama according to the popular vote. He may make waves towards medical cannabis but I doubt it given the amount of money the pharmisuitical companies throw around.

joenailface

no i highly doubt any change will come of it but it's nice to know someone is logical, and the main point of that was eliminating the black market element not 'if we legalize it we get better ****' if people have to obey a law they think is wrong then they will most likely have contempt for other laws.

Spunge

Why is spice ,smoke etc legal if they are pretty much the same as weed.

Tragamin2k2

Spunge wrote: »

Why is spice ,smoke etc legal if they are pretty much the same as weed.

They have no health benefits and you cant make paper etc from them like hemp so big business arent threatened

I wish we werent such a sheep of a country, england bans mushrooms, a week later Ireland bans mushrooms

I blame pensioners that vote for someone for the sake of it or because he has a lovely face

...

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Tragamin2k2 wrote: »

I blame pensioners that vote for someone for the sake of it or because he has a lovely face

...

So which Irish political party is in favour of legalisation?

ScumLord

Spunge wrote: »

Why is spice ,smoke etc legal if they are pretty much the same as weed.

That pig muck is nothing like weed. You take that back!!

Tragamin2k2

Sean_K wrote: »

So which Irish political party is in favour of legalisation?

Read my post again. Its the irish mentality in government that is the reason that we are a sheep country and not ever going to take a stand and do the right thing. Think crowd phsycology but on an international level.

Bertie said before "as long as im here cannabis will never be legalised"

Most ignorant sentence ever

ScumLord

Tragamin2k2 wrote: »

Read my post again. Its the irish mentality in government that is the reason that we are a sheep country

I'm not cheap.

ScumLord

Plugged In wrote: »

Legalise Cannabis Ireland won the debate. It was a great night and had well over a 100 people attend to watch. The debate will be put up on you tube next week so I will post the link when I have it.

Did ye put the videos on youtube?

Prof.Badass

ScumLord wrote: »

Did ye put the videos on youtube?

*he got stoned and forgot why he had logged into youtube, lol.

(hey, I'm too scared to defy the sanctioned norm. Now i find myself arguing against people who actually know what they're talking about. I need to make a few dumb stoner jokes to reassure myself instead of actually thinking about the issue ).*

yes not only can i read your mind, i can also read your subconcious aswell

ScumLord

vinylmesh wrote: »

yes not only can i read your mind, i can also read your subconcious aswell !

Cool! What's it about?