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Here we go again

unionman

Following the inarticulate Mr Mullins in the Sunday Tribune, here's another 'us & them' argument against cyclists in today's Irish Times.

It may well be worth responding to.

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Turbulent Bill

Malari wrote: »

Yes of course anyone on a bike is called a cyclist, I'm just saying there are people who are cyclists for sport and there are people who ride bikes. Radically different groups.

But bound by the same rules when commuting. On my commute it seems that the recreational/functional (flapping high-vis and wobbling) to 'sporting' (road bike, nice gear) cyclists are equally likely to jump red lights, though the roadies obviously don't go on the paths and have better bike control.

'68 Fastback

Like alot of people replying I agree with the opinions on footpath use and breaking red lights but tarring all cyclists with the one brush gets my back up.
Most of the bikes I pass on my commute will break lights at junctions and pedestrian crossings. It doesn't seem to matter if they're on a hack or a high end roller. They're idiots, I don't mind.
HOWEVER! Monday night I was at the junction at Cuffe St. and Wexford St. track standing at the lights. Next thing I feel a little bump from behind. Turn my noggin to see a bike in the lane, assumed he couldn't stop in time or something. Took off and stopped for a red at Kevins St. Same thing happens:eek: The pr!ck was tapping his front wheel off my back wheel!
What can you do? I was dumbstruck but told him to p!ss off. He just smiled like a retard and I took off at speed.
Point is(!) these people are outright fools. The fact they're on a bike or in a car is secondary. Rant over. Sorry Unionman for hijacking the thread:o

DirkVoodoo

I object to being called a brute!

The cowering in doorways sounds about right, makes me feel like a big man!

But really, these one sided opinions are fairly unproductive in the end. I'm amazed this tripe got published, must have been a slow day for the editor.

Bunnyhopper

nipplenuts wrote: »

I've never so far been hit by a car while walking to work. I have twice been hit by cyclists.

Sorry to hear that. In about 15-20 years of regular cycling I've had three spills in total (touch wood (and not counting the off-road spills)), every one caused by a pedestrian stepping out onto the road in front of me.

That said, personal anecdote doesn't make for a very convincing argument in your case or mine.

With regard to the original Irish Times correspondence, overstatement fatally weakens what might have been a sensible letter. I, too, object to cyclists who behave dangerously and inconsiderately, just as I object to similar behaviour by drivers and pedestrians, but that third paragraph...oh dear. "Mandatory re-education is urgently required": sounds a bit Clockwork Orange.

I suppose the purpose of a paper's letters page is to provoke more letters, but, while I wasn't surprised at the Sunday Tribune indulging in crackpot provocation I'd have hoped for a bit more sense from the Irish Times.

Gavin

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

I suppose the purpose of a paper's letters page is to provoke more letters, but, while I wasn't surprised at the Sunday Tribune indulging in crackpot provocation I'd have hoped for a bit more sense from the Irish Times.

Ah now, the Irish Times is always publishing loonies letters. That crazy woman from Donegal is always getting her lunacy published, merely to provoke a reaction.

DirkVoodoo

Don't forget that incident with the crazy french lady who hated irish people! (not OUR french lady of course).

buffalo

Mucco wrote: »

I'm looking at a few stats (nra.ie) in preperation of a response to this.
From 1998 to 2003, there were 2 fatalities in 'pedal cyclist pedestrian' incidents. Both occured in 2002. Does anyone have any more information on this, as I'm not sure what the statistic means? ie 2 peds killed, 1 ped one cyclist? 2 cyclists?

I know at least one of those was a male pedestrian who died after being struck by a cyclist going the wrong way down a one-way street. I remember hearing his daughter on the radio - absolutely tragic.

I'm pretty sure it was a cycle courier, and that they never succeeded in tracking him down.

Caroline_ie

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Don't forget that incident with the crazy french lady who hated irish people! (not OUR CRAZY french lady of course).

Corrected above ...

unionman

Response in today's paper

Caroline_ie

unionman wrote: »

Response in today's paper

Is that one of us?

unionman

Caroline_ie wrote: »

Is that one of us?

I don't know. Didn't publish mine anyway. I know Verb wrote in, but that's not him.

niceonetom

Where drivers assume responsibility by default in any altercation between cycle and motor, their heightened care and solicitude quickly become obvious.

while this may be true, i doubt it is a winning argument in the context of trying to soften the attitude of the anti-cyclist motoring brigade.

it's all too easy for them to go straight to the "sure they don't respect the law - and now they want it changed to make everything our fault? feic off oura da..."

that said, i'd be all for making motorists a bit more respectful of cyclist's space, and if similar legislation led to that kind of attitude i'd be pleased.

it has to be a quid pro quo thing (i can use latin to make myself sound clever too mr. mullins! ya pretentious wanker :P) - changing in the allocation of responsibility (or culpability) would also have to come with some enforcement of existing law for cyclists. we can't be both above the law and protected by it.

kenmc

niceonetom wrote: »

would also have to come with some enforcement of existing law for cyclists. we can't be both above the law and protected by it.

True, but I think a lot of the mindset is of the "if I'm not protected by the law then I'll do everything I can to protect myself, even if that means breaking the law". Although looking at some of the muppets I see every day that's clearly not the case, cos if it was they'd be well lit up too, but plenty of them are not unfortunately. We should be allowed to push them down

Chips Lovell

kenmc wrote: »

Although looking at some of the muppets I see every day that's clearly not the case, cos if it was they'd be well lit up too, but plenty of them are not unfortunately. We should be allowed to push them down

I was standing at a bus stop last night marvelling at the number of cyclists who went by with no lights. And then people tell me I have a death wish for going up the mountains at night.

TinyExplosions

el tonto wrote: »

I was standing at a bus stop last night marvelling at the number of cyclists who went by with no lights. And then people tell me I have a death wish for going up the mountains at night.

You were standing at a bus stop???? Where were you going on a bus man, cycle -it's quicker!

Chips Lovell

TinyExplosions wrote: »

You were standing at a bus stop???? Where were you going on a bus man, cycle -it's quicker!

It was raining, I was in my work clothes and I wanted to use the journey time to read some of a massive big book I have to review. Happy now?

niceonetom

el tonto wrote: »

Happy now?

not even slightly. i'm very disappointed in you tbh.

TinyExplosions

niceonetom wrote: »

not even slightly. i'm very disappointed in you tbh.

+1... you've shattered my confidence in you El_Tonto

Baby Jesus is crying from heaven

Caroline_ie

... El Tonto ... That's all you deserved that day!

el tonto wrote: »

It was raining, I was in my work clothes and I wanted to use the journey time to read some of a massive big book I have to review. Happy now?

unionman

el tonto wrote: »

It was raining, I was in my work clothes and I wanted to use the journey time to read some of a massive big book I have to review. Happy now?

El Tonto (centre) uses 'massive big book' for shelter as he contemplates the taunts of his fellow boardsie cyclists...
CB010421.jpg?size=572&uid=%7BDBF889DC-BB80-4A3D-BA0C-2CB90078C445%7D

CB010421.jpg?size=572&uid=%7BDBF889DC-BB80-4A3D-BA0C-2CB90078C445%7D

kenmc

but it wasn't even raining last night! Not in dublin anyway, cos I was in town until 12.

Chips Lovell

You people are very easily amused.

TinyExplosions

el tonto wrote: »

You people are very easily amused.

Unionman's picture is an uncanny resemblance.... you've brought this on yourself you know

Chips Lovell

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Unionman's picture is an uncanny resemblance....

Not really. Arthur Schlesinger's memoirs could shelter at least two people from the rain.

Gavin

You should get the audio book version !

Not my letter alright, disappointing. Although I did re-read mine a few hours after I sent it in and realised it was tripe. I should have been more patient.

'68 Fastback

Surely, at this stage El Tonto, you can cycle home, in the rain and review the book at the same time with one hand? Or is the Tonto legend just an internet facade?:D

kenmc

that'd be blorg you're thinking of.

'68 Fastback

Met blorg, witnessed the legend first hand(still in shock). Never met this Tonto fella but word on the street is he's got the juice!

Bunnyhopper

Verb wrote: »

Ah now, the Irish Times is always publishing loonies letters. That crazy woman from Donegal is always getting her lunacy published, merely to provoke a reaction.

Point taken; in fact, the letter they published in response to the first one seems to be aimed (more by the editors than the authors) at provoking a reaction, just as much as the original.

Does anyone know where they have those default-motorist-responsibility laws, and how do they work in practice?

kenmc

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

Does anyone know where they have those default-motorist-responsibility laws, and how do they work in practice?

Netherlands for one. Allegedly the car is at least half at fault even if the cyclist falls from a balcony and hits the car! It's safe to say the laws work incredibly well - cars always wait before turning right to let all the bikes go through the junction.