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Child Item

Drunk cycling - Can lose Driving License

craichoe

So,

Found out recently that in Holland (where i live) you can lose your driving license for cycling a bicycle while under the influence (Also in Germany and Poland as far as i know) Whats yere take on it ?

In Ireland i know lads in the country that drive to the pub with a bicycle in the boot and then cycle home leaving the car in the car park after a few jars.

In Holland if the cops catch you, you get breathalised and taken in a paddy wagon to a station. Court appearance is mandatory !

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Alun

Personally, regardless of whether anything is theoretically illegal or not, if I consider it to be stupid and dangerous I wouldn't do it, and I consider riding a bicycle, 'power-assisted' or not, while drunk, on a dark, windy country road to be both of those in bucketloads. Not only could you kill yourself, but you could cause an accident that caused someone else's death too .. not something I'd personally want on my conscience.

jimmycrackcorm

Alun wrote: »

Personally, regardless of whether anything is theoretically illegal or not, if I consider it to be stupid and dangerous I wouldn't do it, and I consider riding a bicycle, 'power-assisted' or not, while drunk, on a dark, windy country road to be both of those in bucketloads. Not only could you kill yourself, but you could cause an accident that caused someone else's death too .. not something I'd personally want on my conscience.

You can also cause an accident while drunk and only walking - so plainly then getting drunk is stupid and dangerous.

Alun

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You can also cause an accident while drunk and only walking - so plainly then getting drunk is stupid and dangerous.

Yes, getting blind drunk and walking along a dark, windy country road is pretty stupid and dangerous too, not only to yourself but other road users as well. I'd be in favour of penalties for that too but it'd never happen.

blorg

Stonemason wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. (large enough space esel ?).

It is worth getting one of these if my license is preserved.

I live 3 miles from my local village so unless i want to stay in and go slowly mad or become an alcoholic then i don't have much of an option.

The truth is people like myself that live in the country don't have access to taxi's,buses ect ect. I personally cant afford to lose my license as i work 20 miles from where i live and there is no public transport to speak of.

I am just trying to be realistic, i do like a pint, i do like to be part of my local community, i do follow the law,But I wont walk 6 miles for a pint and a chat.

For three miles, I'd just get a standard bike and make sure you (a) don't drink too much and (b) have good lighting (that would mean proper lights you can see the road by in the country) and reflective gear. Three miles is not far at all, you wouldn't need the power assist. The legal definition may be one thing but I reckon you are more likely to be stopped on those things that look like scooters than you would on a regular bike.

derry

Stonemason wrote: »

I would like to know for sure coz im thinking of getting an power asisted bike that looks like a scooter.IT is a bike legaly not to be confused with an electric scooter.My point being is my licence safe if i get caught after say 6 pints(should be able to ride after that many .I can get Knicked for something and fined but as there is no insurance/tax or even helmet involed surely they cant take your licence away.

grey area stuff

Facts if drink cuased all the accidents then in saudia arabia where they dont drink they should be accident free
Man they are Lunitic drivers and driving there is hazardous with a high death rate

Not saying we were right **** happened and that was the way it was in the good old days and we didn't have a huge crash rate compared to these days when every body is sopposed to be sober and we drove around most weekends steamed

In the good old day when I was teen before they invented the bag to blow in we used to go to the pub on a friday night after work and fall out of the pub 10 to 20 pints later
In them times if you got stopped by the the Gaurda they would ask you to walk a straight line if they thought you were legless so you had to be completly out of it to get done for drinking and driving

We would then stagger over to our trusted steeds the Yamaha 100 or 125 whatever and try to exit the chichane in car park exit
If we succeeded to exit then we we cool to drive home
Of the group that drove bikes in those days the ones I knew that crashed were sober in the day times or confined the crash to the car park and were given a lift home whatever.
I found while being steamed on a bike in those days we tended not to drive so fast as we didnt want to pick up problems from the cops as we rarely taxxed insured yes but not taxxed
Also we did slow down compared to when we were sober as the brain was a bit fuzzy

Then they brought in the bag and I sold the bike and the car immeaditly and stuck to being a passenger in a Taxi or cycling or walking home to avoid that crap as it was a no brainer the bag turns green cant argue with the bag

Reality is tired drivers are more dangerous than drunk drivers
drugged up drivers on cough medicine or cocane ( often the same thing ) are worse than drunk drivers
Drunk drivers are worse than sober drivers
and bad drivers are lethal drunk or sober or drugged up whatever bad is bad

The few times I nearly came a real bad cropper and just escaped by the skin of my sweat on a bike or car was when I had only drunk one beer as it seemed to make me throttle happy

So although I now don't drink and drive as I don't drink anymore and dont do drugs ( I know boring )I am not sure or convinced that drink is the big killer they make it out to be and the new trend for cocaine fueled driving is even worse than drunken drivers

I am searching to find where it says that it is legal to use electric pedal assist bikes

The last rule I knew for sure was any mechanically propelled vehicile as in steam electric or internal cumbustion was subject all the same rigours of insurance tax registration as any car

I am trying to verify if this info is true or a fabrication

http://www.cibike.ie/faq.htm

cibike.ie wrote:

Q. Do I need a driving license, insurance or road tax?
A. No, you don’t. According to Irish and European law, electric bikes that use the pedal assist method are classified as bicycles, not mechanically propelled vehicles. There is no need for the extra expense associated with other forms of road transport. There are also no NCT requirements either. For all intensive purposes, it’s simply a bicycle that requires very little pedaling to travel 25kmh saving you time and hassle.

I remain unsure
There is two types of law changes from Europe
A directive which becomes law immeadiltly and another thingy where the country has several years to introduce the change and may sometimes alter the rules a tad to suit local conditions and sometime they never bring in the change
What class off law is the electric bike law for Ireland

So I remain totaly not wanting to fight my terretiory with a garda who stops me sober or drunk to prove my case witha eletric drive bike and then get 6 points docked for not being insured

A side note drunk in charge of bike or horse is a fineable traffic offence in Ireland how big a fine i dont't know might be 2 and 6 in old money

There exists within the Irish legal system a catch all clause from civil suit activity where proof isn't so nessary to be beyond reasonable dought in that if you cause all the damage drunk or sober through severe reckless activity too be held liable for all damages cuased

For a house owner he could risk to lose all his assets paying up for all damages cuased in a motor accident which was cuased by being a reckeless drunk cyclist

Even a non house owner could have damages deducted from pay cheques for the rest of thier lives

Also a lot of holiday insurance wont pay out if drink is involved( what level of drink is unknown varies a lot ) and wont pick up tab for cycling while drunk if you fall and break your arse while on holidays and wont even pay if you fall on the footpath and break your arse and there is no bike involved if you were drunk at the time

This suggests strongly that normal life assurance wont cover you for drunk cycling if your dead leaving a hole in family finance and maybe even the health plans VHI might find a opt out clause .
You need to read the fine print about risky activities like scuba diving hang gliding etc that you are not covered to do so to find out its probably under section of abuse of drugs not covered (as in drink is a drug )

Derry

Zonda999

derry wrote: »

man Belguim has to the most boring country in the planet

Derry

Thats the impression topgear give alrite!!!:D

derry

I started another thread about ebikes here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055363675

so far it shows you need to pay motor tax for electric bikes of any sort in ireland

unlike UK and some other eu countries where 250 watts electric bikes seems to be classed as ordinary push bikes

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/motortax_rates_2008_en.pdf

therefore if that is the case you need insurance licence and nct for pedalec or ebikes
and I soppsoe a licence also

the law in the Uk is different but so far best i can tell seems ireland is still in a time warp

mechanically propeled elctric steam or internanl combustion are all defined and all need motro tax and number plates

If you can prove differt go ahead but so far its not looking good to do electric bike sober or drunk as that would impact the car driving licence points or total loss in the republic of ireland

Derry

mumhaabu

A friend of mine (bit of an ejit) was banned for driving for two years for drunk driving and got an electric scooter which was exempt from the usual rules so he could at least get into the town (rural fella) anyway one night he was drunk and driving the thing away and drove in to a ditch and got nicely bange up bruised and cut it was into a drainage dike covered in briars lol! Anyway listening to him telling it was priceless. Whatever about driving a car drunk you should try driving a bicylce! Priceless as the guy is a character.

wil

mumhaabu wrote: »

A friend of mine ..was banned for driving for two years for drunk driving . got an electric scooter...one night he was drunk and driving ....Priceless as the guy is a character.

It's hilarious the way some people kill themselves (and others):rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

wil

derry wrote: »

grey area stuff

Facts if drink cuased all the accidents then in saudia arabia where they dont drink they should be accident free
Man they are Lunitic drivers and driving there is hazardous with a high death rate

Not saying we were right **** happened and that was the way it was in the good old days and we didn't have a huge crash rate compared to these days when every body is sopposed to be sober and we drove around most weekends steamed

Not sure when your good old days were but say 30 years ago for example

628 deaths in 1978

That is with a small fraction of the number of cars we now have.
So your good old days are positively dripping in roses.

Fact is all accidents aren't caused by drink driving, but it is certainly a significant factor in Ireland. Saudi Arabia and other countries have their own problems

derry

Even in those days they reconed most accidents were due to old cars with faulty parts like worn out types brakes and shocks and recycled death traps and half the roads were really crap with slippy cow dung to boot

A huge amount of accidents in those days were day time accidents where drink often was not a contribiter

I one time worked at road works where my job was to divert traffic for some reason like the road was all torrn up for repairs
Lots of times I have had to leg it to survive as the day dreaming driver ploughs into all the road work signs and then wakes up often having hit a big digger whatever
They then often get out and give out shiite to the road crew for interferring with the road and they want compo for the damage

In most all case when cops came and they blow the bag and are in the clear

So you need a new type of bag a dip stick day dreamer bag to get those whackos of the road

If in the old days we had the modern cars and modern roads I recon the accident rate would still be the same as todays rates even with the steamed up drivers as most all of accidents are caused from tired drivers plain bad drivers and agressive drivers like go fast boy drivers

If we look the facts thousands of thousands of steamed drivers in those days in the country side left the pub in their thousands and drove home to the farm and the most all of them got home without a problem
If there was a crash chances were it was hit a stray cow or horse which would happen to sober drivers too

In the city they drove slowly and cops could spot a really drunk driver as they often drove at 20mph
Drunks suprisingly are often trying to drive well

Tests showed on TV shows drunk drivers see straight ahead fairly well but if something is at the edges they don't see it so well so a car which exits a side road with very little notice they might clobber it

So me in that time adopted a watch left right center sytem to guard against tunnel vision while steamed and that saved my bacon a few times
in them days i figure 90% of the traffic was well oiled all going home at the same time as pubs closed at the same time

Nobody really objected to the arrival of the bag as that made most drivers cut down a more modest 4 pints and the beliieve was we would reach a zerpo accident situation if all driivers were less oiled up

2008 the evidence for this strict regime is not so cut and dried as there is still a fatality a day roughly

If there is one thing that jumps out is that the cars today are much faster and much lighter and what in the old days was a written off car but no body dead is now a thin metal skin that crumples up and kills five people with speed as the main cause of the crash

As a non drinker these days I would prefer instead to be randomly pulled in to blow a bag which happens every few months is that Insurance companies make a strong drive to put sat nav speed restrictors into every car ( with serious incentives like 50% premuim reductions )and get most all cars to slow down

That would save more lives than trying to catch some farmer with two pints on him driving home on empty back roads

The zero tolerance drink drive experment has failed both in Ireland and other countries which tried it

Its more a problem to remove the nut behind the wheel issue than a few drinks for a few moderate drinkers

Derry

wil

Wonderful - a rose coloured nostalgic rant.

I seem to remember it slightly differently.

A neighbours kid having both legs broken by a drunk driver, a young fellow a few miles down the road killed by another drunk, a teenage friend demolishing his neighbours wall with his brothers car, the not uncommon sight of guys weaving around the road, saved from certain death by the sheer lack of traffic.

Even in Dublin driving behind blotto little old people or some drunk idiot trying to open my car before taking off in his own, need I go on. Yes it was all good, bring it all back.:eek::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I've heard your same sorrowful rant from old fogies down the country nostalgic for their couple of pints before the bedtime drive home.
Its a bit of Ireland I'll shed no tear for as it fades in to the past.

Esel

Derry, thanks for including a bit of white space in your post above. Given the absence of any punctuation marks whatsoever, it would have been very difficult to read otherwise.

Like wil, my memories differ from yours.

derry

Now we get into the all the reminising about D&D drivers that cause all the Accidents

I would say in this time I can recall some 50 plus serious accidents involving friends, work mates , school pals , neighbours .

Some accidents involved death and serious Injury and some were high speed crashes involving me (with no other cars involved) so been there done that got the T shirt

I don't recommend the hospital food or the ambulance trip and the pain

Nice nurses though

Of which of all these problems crash issues I can say only one involved drink as a factor and even that accident the breathelized driver wasn't at fault in any way

The over the alcohol legal limit driver got hit by the other car jumping the red lights and the driver who caused the crash was perfectly sober

Gaurda don't care everybody at the accident scene must blow the bag
The victim drunk or sober could not avoid that kind of nutter jumping the red lights but still loses licence

Go figure

Having some time later in the 1990 era gone to work in the third world where it wasn't a problem to drink and drive as the law there was not updated to EU levels, more like Ireland in the past with the walk the line tests.
I did on a few occasions try it out and can say it was the same as when I was younger , accept I was so nervous to be stooped by the gaurda (who were not there) freeky really some form of brain washing I think
The biggest real risk was hitting a dirty big cow which could run out from out of the bush

Even got stopped a few times from their local cops and did all the tests those cops asked for and passed no problems and drove away no issues

Never even had to bribe my way out of a failed test

But they did nail me a few times for speeding for like doing 40 mph in a 30 mph zone and the thirty zone was in a zone that was normaly 60 mph

So it was just a kinda honey speed trap

I can't say that driving risks were worse or better in that time as shortly after I left the system changed to same as EU in theory
that is if the police could afford the bags

After that accident rates went orbital for other reasons like political instability and cars becoming mad max mobiles with machine guns
This firepower didn't help other road users too busy dodging the shoot outs in the war zone that they became the norm for that region

Car accident were not the biggest killer like bullets

Then after I returned to Ireland I gave up the gargle for several reasons but driving was not one of them

I didn't even bother to drive too many flash backs to that bad food in hospital from the previous high speed crashes while perfectly sober

Didn't really hurt myself lots of bruises from safety belt
It is routine to stay in hospital for while when all the internal organs have shifted about a bit
That happened from hitting some lamppost square on that jumped out in front of me while driving at 90MPH
( well I was overtaking a a very long large cattle truck trailer combo that was moving at 70MPH )

Car was a bit sorry cut in half straight down the middle mostly through the passenger seat

Good job I was solo at the time considering the two bits rolled into a deep ravine for bit of a rolly polly view of the world on the way to some other world wheeeeee

Sky then ground stones flying into your face with long grass flashing past
Sky then ground stones flying into your face with long grass flashing past
Sky then ground stones flying into your face with long grass flashing past
Sky then ground stones flying into your face with long grass flashing past
Sky then ground stones flying into your face with long grass flashing past
Sky then ground stones flying into your face with long grass flashing past
Sky then ground stones flying into your face with long grass flashing past

Then kaboom stop in a ravine with a strong whiff of petrol
Exit belt and leg it before the whole bush catches fire

Now for me if D&D worked and made no accidents count me in costs me nothing as I don't drink anymore and been that way for some good few years

But the real case story drinking and accidents doesn't add up

Yes some accidents are drunk drivers but they are not the majority cause of accidents

I would prefer no accidents and as drunk drivers don't cause the other 80% of the accidents then the issue is what can cure the other accidents

To solve that you need to figure what true reasons that causes those accidents

Then we might dig up a can of worms and impact the economy

What if we found the reason was things like bad work shifts making workers tired who fall asleep at the wheel

Ok lets all ban shift work

OOOPs that might case problems

Lets just waste lots of money with gaurda time and the blow into bags every driver that hit a check point and maybe have a hit rate of 1 driver per 1000 bags who is slightly over two pints who we can punish get that feel good feeling and paper over the cracks in the system for a failed accident safety policy

In Germany knowing a fixed level of alcohol was a waste of time they have a higher limit and lower limit

to complex to explain here but basicaly limit is more like four pints to lose license for one year

Now next door Austria any drink of any sort and you get hit full whack for everything lose licence fines go to jail the works and yet they still have lots of accidents

So no proof no drinking at all at all works better than Germany with higher limits and these two countries have very similar cars and roads and driver types

A heck of a lot of the German accidents are in fast traffic in the morning on the autobann with foggy conditions with a big pile up of very sober early morning commuters driving way too fast in thick fog

So if drunk drivers don't case all the really big bad accidents then why do we pursue them like the Spanish Inquision

Or is it we are brain washed with simple fix it solutions and live with the warts of the reality of this warped logic living in a kind of well goody two shoes land of
"well I don't drink so I am a perfect driver well taught well schooled and a model driver "

Or maybe the so called sober driver that causes the real mayhem is really one of the thousands from the 1970 era winner of a driver license because they failed the test twice so they get a full license just for good measure

Maybe we got thousands of badly failed drivers who should be stopped from driving until they pass a real test and then the killing machine will stop

Or maybe its the truck drivers who are forced to do 70 hour week who tends to crash his car going home from work
tacos you say are you joking me or what

Or maybe it its all those factory shift workers falling asleep at the wheel ......

But can a government married to quick fix it catch every slightly drinking driver and nail them to the cross and cover over the cracks in the system , ever really hope to solve a thorny problem like this , and still win an election.....
now that would take reals ballls to make happen ......
I wont bet my house on it ......

Derry

towel401

bandit197 wrote: »

:eek:LOL Why stop there? Why not take away your passport too. Im sorry but having your driving licence taken away for dropping chewing gum on the ground is the most ridiculous thing Ive heard in a while. What sort of a country do you want to live in??

its almost like half the people here want to live in a police state like North Korea

eh, **** the driving license thing lets just have public executions for anyone who drives without NCT or throws chewing gum on the ground or dares to step outside a building after having single drink.

craichoe

EternalSunshine wrote: »

I also live in Holland and whilst that rule is true, it is rarely enforced. You would have to be seriously all over the road on your bike. Everyone drinks and cycles around amsterdam.

Ha ha .. you'll rarely see a 'drunk' Dutch Man/Woman, you'll always see a Hammered Irish man/woman, simply because they found a bar that served groot bier and not Biertjes

derry

towel401 wrote: »

its almost like half the people here want to live in a police state like North Korea

eh, **** the driving license thing lets just have public executions for anyone who drives without NCT or throws chewing gum on the ground or dares to step outside a building after having single drink.

Now your talking
Lets see what those one half of Ireland would do tommorow if you let them

They would follow the well tried model of north Korea and introduce inherited crime laws Rapid Death by nerve gas for all the family

The penalty for the family if the Mother or Father think outside the box as in mutter under their breath the system sucks is put the Mother Father and all the kids into big glass screen box sealed up airtight

Then through a special slot they will drop in brand X or Y nerve gas and watch all the family die just to test out is that brand of nerve gas is still up to spec

The crime for the kids is inherited so they suffer the parents fate

That way no outside the box thinkers will survive to populate North Korea

Here it more subtle but the results tend toward a lower life span for those who devaite from the wished for results they go to prison or go to ghettos

Ensure in Prison to feed prisoners high carbo diet with lots of white bread to speed up short lives

The fact that 10% of the Irish population is also very allergic to this product white bread will help ensure they go ballistic

Then you can put them into solitary and ramp up the torture regime

With selective methods of bad diet and the ghetto policy and this neo nazi thinking endemic in the civil service a hang over from the fourties era when they could more easily just export the problem types abroad

That easy policy is gone so the new policy will be to exterminate unemployed or unemployable and their families as the other places wont take them anymore

Then Ireland can continue on it low tax policy and abdicate any responsibility to it real funcion what the government is elected to do

Instead stick to the well proven lining the pockets with big brown envelopes

Anyway bike riders don't do the economy any good not much VAT from it compared to big cars
So ensure it remains a off beat activity for the greeny type who will be suckered in the next election into taking a hari kari pill (Brand type PD coalition partners die off in brown envelop dropping)

Face facts the Irish civil service and government can teach those amateurs in North Korea a few better tricks on how to do it more descretily and not even be seen to do it and still get voted in the next election

All the evidence is there in black and white to see
Just go look at the Kinseeily in north county Dublin and there it clear as a bell crime in Ireland pays handsomely and inherited crime at the top pays even more handsomely
And as for those in jail they were the ones who didn't play ball in the party game machine which divies out the booty and took short cuts
So it off to ghettoo land and jail for outside the box thinkers and expect a shorted life span

Anyway when was the last time you saw a helicopter pilot stopped and made blow in a bag

It helps to move in heli circles aloft from the cannon fodder for the gaurda who chase after the well oiled on push bikes

EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE

Derry

craichoe

derry wrote: »

Now your talking
Lets see what those one half of Irealnd would do tommorow if you let them

They would follow the well tried model of north Korea and introduce inherited crime laws

The penalty for the family if the Mother or Father think outside the box as in mutter under their breath the system sucks is put the mother father and all the kids into big glass screen box sealed up airtight

Then through a special slot they will drop in nerve gas and watch all the family die just to test out is that brand of nerve gas still up to spec

The crime for the kids is inherited so they suffer the parents fate

That way no outside the box thinkers will survive to populate North Korea

Here it more subtle but the results tend toward a lower life span for those who devaite from the wished for results they go to prison

Ensure to feed them high carbo diet with lots of white bread

The fact that 10% of the Irish population is allergic to this product will ensure they go ballistic and you can put them into solitary
With selective methods of bad diet and ghetto policy and neo nazi thinking endemic in the civil service a hang over from the fourties era when they could more easily just export the problem types abroad the new policy will be to exterminate just the unemployed or unemployable and families as the other places wont take them anymore and Ireland can continue on it low tax policy

Anyway bike riders don't do the economy any good not much VAT from it so ensure it remains a off beat activity for the greens who will be suckered ion the next election into taking a hari kari pill

face facts the irish civil sevice can teach those amateurs in north Korea a few better tricks on how to do descretily it not even be seen to do it and still get voted in the next election

EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE

Ralf

derry

craichoe wrote: »

Ha ha .. you'll rarely see a 'drunk' Dutch Man/Woman, you'll always see a Hammered Irish man/woman, simply because they found a bar that served groot bier and not Biertjes

Yeah holland was a rip
really cheap beer total anarchy place loved living and working there in the early summer to late summer but after that forget it too wet

You can only generally in Holland fall foul of the law and cops for injuring or killing somebody

I seen with my own eyes Irish guys go into the supermarket fill up the trollys with mostly booze and steam past the check out and not pay
one security gaurd against several big lads the security guard justs calls the cops

As they said the worst that would happen if the cops caught them was they would just have to pay for the stuff

So 9 for ten times they would get away before the cops came as hte cops in Holland got too much real crime to attend to than be the supermarkets jumped up security

The shops merely build in losses into the cost and it still half the price from Ireland

Go figure

I saw the cops pull up to kids park at midnight with a big droup of mad drunk Irish swinging from out of the rocking kidies playing rocking horses and swings

The cops wound the window down and shouted across Irish

The group came "yeah sure thing "

The cops came back" now how did we know and laughed "wound the window back up and left the scene to busy with real crime to be bothered with that kinda stuff

The thing I could not figure was with the booze so mega cheap was why everybody was always selling to everybody else weed or similar when the beer was so frigging cheap

When we were teens in Ireland we did weed as it was cheaper than drink but as soon as you could get cheap beer you dropped the weed as kids stuff

My favorite place for a beer lots of beers was under a big dyke where you could look up the sky and see the ships passing overhead

Thats when you see the reality that only a bunch of whackos would live under water so Holland had to be some sort of Alice in wonderland place where all the normal rules were upside down with a big bath plug built in

But everything didn't fall apart because half the place was smoking something and muggers take up their slot in the revolving door jail of a few days at most for mugging and expect within two days to lose most all your psession as half the beer drinkers in the pub are full time muggers

99% of the bike are stolen anyway so drinking and cycling while well oiled if enforced would put 25% of Holland in jail overnight

Now I must say I did enjoy cycling while very very steamed in Holland but you run of puff much quicker on those grandma bike they got all over the place

Their accident rates are still fairly low but lots of cycle paths are a good with a barrier and some distance from the road so you can flop over and still not fall under a truck

Just Watch out for the rabbit with the funny hat he might be make believe cop out to mug you and if he doesnt get his way remove his paw from the hole in the Dyke

Derry