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Any cops out there?

ART6

Looking at a lot of threads in AH and Motors Forum, there seems to be some criticism of the Gardai. "Didn't respond." "Couldn't have cared less." etc etc.

I can recall years ago that if I went into Waterford City for anything there seemed to be Gardai patrolling all over the place. I didn't make any particular note of them. They were just there. Now, thinking back on it, I can't recall seeing any for a long time. Meanwhile we have (I'm told) a crime and drugs problem. So. Are they now all sitting in a barracks watching TV cameras?

In New York City, a place where I have spent some time on occasions, there seemed to be a cop with a night stick on every street corner, and all of them gave the impression that he would quite like to bend his night stick over someone's head.

So. Have we reached the point where we simply can't afford proper policing? Have we moved from the days where my wife could wander around Waterford in absolute safety to a point where even I cannot?

What's happened? Or am I misjudging the situation?

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Dyr

out my way the gardai are pretty much useless, they dont fight crime they just regulate it. ive met decent coppers and complete c**ts too but as a force they're in dire need of a kick up the arse.

challengemaster

They're fairly useless, I mean there's hardly ever in the Garda station around here, at any time.

Oh, and things to prove they're fairly lazy, From boards.ie:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055317667
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055318586

dutchcat

sam34 wrote: »

my father used to say that to get into the guards all you have to be is tall and thick!

He forgot their parents must be unmarried

ojewriej

chalad07 wrote: »

come on though, it's a bit much for a someone that might be 25 to be told when to go to bed, when they can watch tv, when they do anything,

Ok, sorry I snapped at you , I thought you just wanted to have a cheap shot at the guards, but now i see you are actually making a point.

I see what you are saying, but look at it this way: When you become a garda, you get a lot of powers over ordinary citizens. Garda managment has to make sure that people who wield these powers have enough discipline not to abuse them. And all the stuff you go through when in templemore teaches you discipline. In a way, it also prepares you for all the inonvieneinces of the job - and there is plenty.

chalad07 wrote: »

I know a guard, and he'll freely admit that most of the people he's working with are crap at their jobs - they see it as an easy life. From what i can see the cops dont make much efforts trying to recruit a better standard of people - graduates etc. From what i know there is no 'fast track' program similar to the army cadets. This type of thing would attract better recruits,

It is a good point. All I can say to that is that Garda Siochana recently got a new comissioner. One of the first thing he did was a review of the training process, I believe a full report and reccomendations should be published shortly. A lot of people hope that changes in training is just a begining of a longer process of making Garda Siochana more up to date with the society we live in.

And one more thing - 3 years ago the age limit was increased form 28 to 35, in order to attract more mature and more experienced candidates. Just talking to the people who post here on boards, there is plenty of applicants who are in their early thirties, a lot of them with various degrees. I believe we should see the change in the guards, shortly, when they will come out of training.

pixbyjohn

Quotefrom dc69
(Any guard I have ever met or any guard I know,are uneducated dickheads and every guard I know,joined the force because they either didnt want to go to college,failed or dropped out or couldnt do anything else.)

Thats a very generalised statement and can you really back it up with evidence.
You would be the first to cry foul if the Gardai put you in the same category as every criminal in the country.
There are a few rogue gardai but most of them surely are not as you say.

ojewriej

Eglinton wrote: »

A guard with 17 years service only gets €48,695? Really? I was on that within two years. How do they feed their families? Or am I reading those pay scales incorrectly? I know you can make up more with overtime (€31 according to that) but it's not nice to have to depend on overtime.

That's is the way it is. You get various extras i.e. for working on sundays or nights etc., but the truth is that wages aren't as good as a lot of people believe.

newmills

Recently one sunday night about 11.30 p.m i heard a commotion outside our house. I looked out the bedroom window to see a guard trying to cut open the lock, on the gate of the club they were locked in to!! They obviously had been sleeping or dossing round the back of the hall and when they came to leave, the gates were locked and they couldn't get out. The other guard told the guy to move while he rammed the gate to bust it open. The best laugh is, that the chain and lock are only for show, and had he looked at it properly they would have been out in a flash!! I filmed it with my mobile phone and nearly burst laughing at the pair of eejits!! God loves a trier!!

Terry

newmills wrote: »

Recently one sunday night about 11.30 p.m i heard a commotion outside our house. I looked out the bedroom window to see a guard trying to cut open the lock, on the gate of the club they were locked in to!! They obviously had been sleeping or dossing round the back of the hall and when they came to leave, the gates were locked and they couldn't get out. The other guard told the guy to move while he rammed the gate to bust it open. The best laugh is, that the chain and lock are only for show, and had he looked at it properly they would have been out in a flash!! I filmed it with my mobile phone and nearly burst laughing at the pair of eejits!! God loves a trier!!

Youtube it.

sam34

dutchcat wrote: »

sam34 wrote: »

my father used to say that to get into the guards all you have to be is tall and thick!

He forgot their parents must be unmarried

i'm slow on the uptake tonight, i had to read that three times thinking "Wtf" before i got that

Lilibet

chalad07 wrote: »

i dont think that the analogy of the army applies, presumably these type of commands arise from the need to condition soldiers to unquestioningly follow orders in a combat situation,

Granted, i have generalised, but it seems that your daughter is an exception, theres not many cops with masters degrees, or any non related degrees. Its people like your daughter that the guards need to concentrate on recruiting

Gardai have to follow lawful orders without question too so the training has to reflect this.If you can't follow orders while in the college,or you feel you're above being told what to do,will you be above obeying lawful orders from an officer in command e.g in a public order situation where you agree with the aim of protestors(insert any cause here) who decide to block access to a public building and have to be forcibly moved?

Again you are mistaken in your belief that recruit Gardai are not graduates,Many in fact,are graduates in varying disciplines so my daughter is no exception.Only recently I spoke to a young Garda who joined eight years ago with a university degree and who told me that a lot in his class in Templemore were also graduates.Eight years ago!!! when the Celtic Tiger was in full swing,he joined for the love of the job when he could have earned a much better salary outside if the force.

However,being a graduate does not mean that she will be a good Garda,any more than having a 1.1 means you will be a good Doctor,Lawyer,Nurse etc.etc.I know health care professionals I wouldn't trust with my dogs life,much less my own.Someone who joins with the minimum requirement could be a much better professional at any job than a graduate.

chalad07

ojewriej wrote: »

Ok, sorry I snapped at you , I thought you just wanted to have a cheap shot at the guards, but now i see you are actually making a point.

I see what you are saying, but look at it this way: When you become a garda, you get a lot of powers over ordinary citizens. Garda managment has to make sure that people who wield these powers have enough discipline not to abuse them. And all the stuff you go through when in templemore teaches you discipline. In a way, it also prepares you for all the inonvieneinces of the job - and there is plenty.

It is a good point. All I can say to that is that Garda Siochana recently got a new comissioner. One of the first thing he did was a review of the training process, I believe a full report and reccomendations should be published shortly. A lot of people hope that changes in training is just a begining of a longer process of making Garda Siochana more up to date with the society we live in.

And one more thing - 3 years ago the age limit was increased form 28 to 35, in order to attract more mature and more experienced candidates. Just talking to the people who post here on boards, there is plenty of applicants who are in their early thirties, a lot of them with various degrees. I believe we should see the change in the guards, shortly, when they will come out of training.

No problem:),

That is def a good sign that the guards are trying to attract better candidates, hopefully that will make for a change in the way they do things,

Another thing that i dont understand is the level of coruptiom. I'm not talking about the high level Serpico stuff, but the everyday things. A friend of mine got a pulled for talking on a phone while diving. The fact that she knew a guard meant that nothing will come of this and she'll get off. Lucky for my friend, but i dont know if its good practice!

We've all heard countless stories like this one, and its not a good sign, and it also seems to be common place in the it's not a minority of cops doing this.

I do fell sorry for guards in that there is a certain stigma attached, but sometimes they dont seem to do themselves any favors.

Lilibet

ojewriej wrote: »

I

I believe we should see the change in the guards, shortly, when they will come out of training.

Elaborate please.

lennox1

chalad07 wrote: »

No problem:),

That is def a good sign that the guards are trying to attract better candidates, hopefully that will make for a change in the way they do things,

Another thing that i dont understand is the level of coruptiom. I'm not talking about the high level Serpico stuff, but the everyday things. A friend of mine got a pulled for talking on a phone while diving. The fact that she knew a guard meant that nothing will come of this and she'll get off. Lucky for my friend, but i dont know if its good practice!

We've all heard countless stories like this one, and its not a good sign, and it also seems to be common place in the it's not a minority of cops doing this.

I do fell sorry for guards in that there is a certain stigma attached, but sometimes they dont seem to do themselves any favors.

Just because someone has a uni education doesn't make them a good Garda.I have family in the Gardai and they are
(1)20-30 years in the job.
(2)Good at the job as is evident from the esteem in which they are held and the commendations from both victims and defendants they have received.
(3)Not graduates of any university except that of life.
(4)Not corrupt in any way in that they will not let anyone away with any wrongdoing of any kind and that extends particularly to members of the force.
(5)Disillusioned with older recruits (28-35) as they think they know it all and don't take instruction or advice well.Younger(19-24) recruits seem to respect experienced members more and want to learn from them.
(6)Are fitter than many of the recruits who seem to think that fitness training is no longer applicable when you come out of Templemore and despite being on the wrong side of 40 can run after and catch gurriers when the younger member or recruit is still trying to catch his/her breath
(7)Never has accepted as much as a cup of water without paying and will never accept a cup of tea,even in a victims house where the people are being nice,in case it would be construed in the wrong way.

So,there are great Gardai out there,quietly doing the job they love and have a vocation for,but as is the way of the world,only the bad gets noticed.

Shadowless

Meh, any of my mates who joined the guards either dropped out of college or didn't get in in the first place. I'm sure they get a few graduates but I'd say they're in the minority.

Also maybe a guard can answer this one. Why are there always at least 2 guards waltzing up and down the crime cesspit that is Grafton St yet I've never once seen a guard on Parnell St/Summerhill?

MizzLolly

In fairness to them, they're always walking up and down O' Connell and Henry Street. Maybe they don't really do anything but I've gotten to the stage where I don't really blame them. What can they do other than patrol the streets (which they have been doing lately)?

Sure how many times have the Gardai arrested somebody for drug possession or repeated anti-social offences only to have the guy walk free from court?

The whole system is weak to be honest, we can't expect much more from them.

Lilibet

Shadowless wrote: »

Meh, any of my mates who joined the guards either dropped out of college or didn't get in in the first place. I'm sure they get a few graduates but I'd say they're in the minority.

Anyone I know joining the guards are either university graduates or Institute of technology graduates. I'm sure they get a few who have the minimum requirement but I'd say they are in the minority.

The first sentence of my comment above is true.The second one is pure conjecture as I don't have figures to support my assertion.Do you have figures to support yours??? or is it simply an opinion based on the jaded stereotype of the majority of Gardai being uneducated and thick?????

FunkZ

I had a ten minute confrontation on O Connell Street lasy night, almost got my head torn off by a seven foot fat dope, no Garda anywhere

dc69

Eglinton wrote: »

A guard with 17 years service only gets €48,695? Really? I was on that within two years. How do they feed their families? Or am I reading those pay scales incorrectly? I know you can make up more with overtime (€31 according to that) but it's not nice to have to depend on overtime.

If thats true that is disgracefull.The job isnt highly skilled and any yob without a record can do it, that is an obscene amount of money to be paying,I dont believe you were on that within 2 years but I know its well achievable within about 6.

It shows how our country is run,when the government pay guards,2 years in the job 50 grand a year.

No wonder people resent the guards.Walking around earning stupid money,when others have to work their arses off.

Lilibet wrote: »

Anyone I know joining the guards are either university graduates or Institute of technology graduates. I'm sure they get a few who have the minimum requirement but I'd say they are in the minority.

Why in Gods name would anyone with a good degree join the guards after going through college?.It would actually prove the point they are stupid that they bothered going to college for no reason!It makes no sense.

iloverocknroll

ah some of the gardai are really cool dudes and because a lot of them are lazy ****es the guards get some stick and actually there quite a few nice guards out there so dont tar em all wit the same brush

Lilibet

FunkZ wrote: »

I had a ten minute confrontation on O Connell Street lasy night, almost got my head torn off by a seven foot fat dope, no Garda anywhere

I had to visit an emergency dept of our local hospital with a very ill child and had to wait hours while nurses and doctors stood around talking to each other,ignoring my child who was very ill.They saw her sitting there,she was critically ill and they ignored her,nurses and doctors everywhere.Only when I threatened to sue the ar..of them did they intervene to save her life.Is there a Nurse/Doctor Ombudsman,to whom I can complain.....No....Sh...ssh... lets not complain about the saintly nurses or doctors as we will probably need them in our lifetime and we don't want to get on the wrong side of them.One thing is for sure,most people will need them more than they'll need the Gardai,therefore its easy to knock the Gardai for failing to be there instantly when we need them.After all,aren't the Gardai sitting around the station just waiting to respond to my call alone.They have nothing else to do.:rolleyes:

At least if there was a Garda there in your situation,they would have intervened even if they had to wait for backup depending on the situation,before doing so.And some of them wouldn't even wait for backup thereby risking their lives .Maybe they were dealing with another situation in Henry/North Earl/Cathal brugha St and couldn't get there as quickly as you wanted them to.

dc69

Lilibet wrote: »

I had to visit an emergency dept of our local hospital with a very ill child and had to wait hours while nurses and doctors stood around talking to each other,ignoring my child who was very ill.They saw her sitting there,she was critically ill and they ignored her,nurses and doctors everywhere.Only when I threatened to sue the ar..of them did they intervene to save her life.Is there a Nurse/Doctor Ombudsman,to whom I can complain.....No....Sh...ssh... lets not complain about the saintly nurses or doctors as we will probably need them in our lifetime and we don't want to get on the wrong side of them.One thing is for sure,most people will need them more than they'll need the Gardai,therefore its easy to knock the Gardai for failing to be there instantly when we need them.After all,aren't the Gardai sitting around the station just waiting to respond to my call alone.They have nothing else to do.:rolleyes:

At least if there was a Garda there in your situation,they would have intervened even if they had to wait for backup depending on the situation,before doing so.And some of them wouldn't even wait for backup thereby risking their lives .Maybe they were dealing with another situation in Henry/North Earl/Cathal brugha St and couldn't get there as quickly as you wanted them to.

You really dont have a clue,do you?

Why not sue Mary Harney,who is responsible for the waiting times.

Not the nurses and doctors,who are by far the most undervalued and abused workers in ireland.

A guarda is 100X less important or qualified than anyone in the medical proffesion,so dont even try to compare them.

Also if your child was critically ill,they would have been seen straight away.Do you honestly think a child is going to be let die in front of a Doctor?

Stop waffling,you are embarasing yourself.

iloverocknroll

its not actually mary harneys fault its the previous minister of healths fault he screwed everythin up and left mary to pick up the pieces.... i am myself not a very big fan of mary harney i think she could get the finger out but i dont think she is totally to blame.... now where nurses and doctors are concerned i dunno what your local hospital is like but mine you may as well be invisible especially at my age anyway... i when in and out of hospital before xmas and the way i was treated was disgraceful... no human being should of been treated the way i was....

kmart6

dc69 wrote: »

You really dont have a clue,do you?

Why not sue Mary Harney,who is responsible for the waiting times.

I think your the one without a clue going by that statement!:rolleyes:

dc69

iloverocknroll wrote: »

its not actually mary harneys fault its the previous minister of healths fault he screwed everythin up and left mary to pick up the pieces.... i am myself not a very big fan of mary harney i think she could get the finger out but i dont think she is totally to blame.... now where nurses and doctors are concerned i dunno what your local hospital is like but mine you may as well be invisible especially at my age anyway... i when in and out of hospital before xmas and the way i was treated was disgraceful... no human being should of been treated the way i was....

I know but the above post is implying that her daughter was dying in front of a doctors eyes(apperantly the doctor was staring at the wall or something) and he only interviened because she threatened to sue him.I have never heard such a load of crap in my life.

The guards have a choice when they are cruising around as to whether they stop in areas and get out and take drink off kids or do something more proactive.

Nurses and Doctors can do nothing about their hospital being severely understaffed.

I think the above post will find that Hospital workers are rushed off their feet at all times due to lack of staff,guards are doing nothing proactive at the best of times.

iloverocknroll

dc69 wrote: »

I know but the above post is implying that her daughter was dying in front of a doctors eyes(apperantly the doctor was staring at the wall or something) and he only interviened because she threatened to sue him.I have never heard such a load of crap in my life.

well i do agree it is a bit overreacted by the sounds of it but i have witnessed in a particular hospital patients being brushed aside when they where in dire need of some medical attention... and that woman is a mother... mothers always worry and think the worst when their children are involved so try not be so harsh on her lol

Lilibet

Dc69 you seem to have a serious dislike of the Gardai and you are entitled to your opinion.After all we live in a democracy in which Gardai have laid down their lives to ensure you don't have to live in a dictatorship ruled by the bomb and the bullet.

I am a health care professional who specialises in brain injury working in the public health service,spouse is a doctor and daughter is joining An Garda Siochana.
Some facts for you.I did not say the doctor was 'staring at the wall'.The nurses and doctors were gathered around the nurses station talking and laughing and talking about where they had gone last night.It was not a busy night.
However,my daughter had a head injury which the triage nurse assessed as 'only needing stitches' when anyone with any knowledge of head injury knows that a head injury can sometimes be hidden damage ,
causing a bleed into the brain.I'm sure she studied that in her training.However,applying it to real situations seemed to be beyond her.
When my daughter started to vomit and become sleepy,they (nurses and doctors)did not seem to realise the significance of same and it was then that I had no option but to threaten to sue as I realised what was happening.
Luckily,my threat worked and my daughter was monitored properly and given the appropriate treatment and has had no lasting effects.I make no apology for acting as I did.

She is the one who is now joining An Garda Siochana and who,but for my 'crap'as you call it would be brain damaged,thanks to our 'abused'workers.She went on to become a very lovely intelligent human being,no thanks to the so called health professionals in our A&E dept.And I can judge as I am one of the workers in the same health service!!!I also realise that I was lucky enough to be able to assess how serious my daughters situation was and demand action.
However,I would not dream of saying all nurses or doctors are incompetent as I am fair minded and educated enough to assess and admit that there are good and bad in every job and profession.But when uninformed and ignorant people tar all Gardai as useless,stupid.lazy,uneducated etc.etc.my blood boils!.

Shadowless

Lilibet wrote: »

The first sentence of my comment above is true.The second one is pure conjecture as I don't have figures to support my assertion.Do you have figures to support yours??? or is it simply an opinion based on the jaded stereotype of the majority of Gardai being uneducated and thick?????

Actually it's a conclusion I've reached based on the evidence at my disposal. I never claimed it to be a fact. I'd be hugely surprised if over 50% of the guards had a university degree.

timmywex

dc69 wrote: »

.

Minimal risk of injury,

That is one of the most stupid comments i have ever heard, please just walk around with the gards any night of the week and see how you end up! Gardai get assualted every weekend, not seriously in most cases, but it happens, and they are often in a+e, your comment is crazy!

And btw, imo, the gardai are better qualified than nurses, sure, nurses do a degree, but the gardai do a degree in templemore, and the amount of courses they do in various things from drving to fingerprints after this is masive, add to that their expirience of street live, i think they are higher qualified! And thats not taking away from nurses at all, just used them as an example!

source

dc69 wrote: »

The guards have a choice when they are cruising around as to whether they stop in areas and get out and take drink off kids or do something more proactive.

Do you really think that taking alcohol off underage drinkers isn't proactive policing????

What's happening when gardai take drink off underage drinkers?

they are preventing antisocial behaviour from happening due to there being drunk teenagers on the streets messing and fooling around,ie, by stopping them while they're committing a small offence they're preventing the kids from committing a more serious offence (such as assault) later in the night,if that's not proactive policing then i don't know what is.

Gardai don't get a kick off taking drink off kids, and it is pretty much a nightmare of a thing to do when one of them gets gobby.

You really keep showing time and time again in this thread that you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

Faheywitane

chalad07 wrote: »

i dont think that the analogy of the army applies, presumably these type of commands arise from the need to condition soldiers to unquestioningly follow orders in a combat situation,

I just dont see why the guards would need this type of Training. There seems to be some sort of tactic in place to brainwash new recruits into the garda way of thinking. It allows little room for innovation, or new ideas, something that is badly need in the police force,

Granted, i have generalised, but it seems that your daughter is an exception, theres not many cops with masters degrees, or any non related degrees. Its people like your daughter that the guards need to concentrate on recruiting

Somewhere in the region of 50% of my intake have a third level education.
Where's the basis for your comments??