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Libertas - who are they?

Von Manstein

Out of curiosty, I just went on to the Libertas website to find out who exactly they where. They seemed to have just popped out of no where these past few months. Unfortunately, although they seem to have plenty to say about scuttling the Lisbon Treaty, they have very very little to say about themselves - let alone their staff.

Anybody else suspicious or is it just me who finds it odd that a seemingly very well funded 'Institute' just popped out of nowhere?

No doubt there are many Libertas spys on boards (especially now that they're paying for ads on boards I see) so apart from the three vague lines on their website could someone please enlighten me as to where they have come from? Who's funding them? And also what's their (or their puppeters) motives in scare mungering the nation into saying no?

Likewise, it's obvious why Sinn Fein - the only political party in the dail - are saying no. It's not about the treaty being good or bad - it's simply the same ploy Sinn Fein always play. They like to be seen as the party of rebellion, the party of being seen to go against the grain, the party of resistance - this time the oppressor to Irish Freedom being the EU. This attitude is a win - win one even if the treaty isn't passed. It's just a puplicity stunt to get media attention and believe me it's working! They did disasterously in the last election and has any else also noticed that Gerry Adam's is notebly absent in the Lisbon debate? The party is deliberately using the Treaty to draw attention toward the party at the expense of what's best for the nation as a whole. Also, The powers that be are blatantly positioning Mary Lou Macdonald as the 'face' (if not leader) of Sinn Fein in the south. Gerry Adams image after all was one of the reasons the party has never entered the mainstream in the south.

I have researched the treaty and as you probably will have guessed I am going to vote yes. However, one thing I would ask all boards members is don't trust Sinn fein and be very suspicious of Libertas. Whether your for it or not just make sure to check out objective advice!

Check out the referendum commissions website for impartial info on the treaty

One thing I cant stand is scare mongering - be it from the yes or the no side!

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marco murphy

Likewise, it's obvious why Sinn Fein - the only political party in the dail - are saying no. It's not about the treaty being good or bad - it's simply the same ploy Sinn Fein always play. They like to be seen as the party of rebellion, the party of being seen to go against the grain, the party of resistance - this time the oppressor to Irish Freedom being the EU.

Well thats simply bullsh1t. Sinn Féin are pro-EU and simply believe that a better deal can be had for the country. You are the first and only one to state that ''the oppressor being the EU''. Goes to show. Sinn Fein have nothing to hide, they have comprehensively set out the reasons why they are taking the position they are. There is nothing about oppression, so don't be misleading people.

ART6

I don't know much about Libertas (which was what this thread started off about). Equally I have never made a detailed study of FF, FG, SF etc (I draw the line at the Greens, chosing to ignore whatever they say about anything:)). However, I do listen to what they have to say, taking the view that only a fool refuses to listen to opposing views.

The "Yes" lobby keeps on about what wonderful things we have received from Europe, and how ungrateful we'll be if we don't now support it. That is the one case where only a fool would listen. What have we received? Increased food costs due to the CAP, the business stealth tax called VAT, no control over our interest rates and therefore no means of dealing with local inflation, loss of control of our justice system which can now be overruled by the ECJ, an endless blizzard of regulations many of which are tailored for the mainland European countries and are damaging here (eg water charges for schools to force the conservation of water, in a country that has more than it knows what to do with).

I was a firm supported of the original Common Market concept, but I never voted for a European superstate and I don't want to be a member of one. If we vote "No" and the EU "democrats" want us to leave the EU, then fine. Let's instead join the EU Free Trade area with Switzerland et al. Then we can continue to benefit from the market while still controlling our own destiny.

I don't recall that Libertas have ever suggested that any more than have any of the others who take it upon themselves to tell us what to do

vote4pedro

What have we received? Increased food costs due to the CAP, the business stealth tax called VAT, no control over our interest rates and therefore no means of dealing with local inflation, loss of control of our justice system which can now be overruled by the ECJ, an endless blizzard of regulations many of which are tailored for the mainland European countries and are damaging here (eg water charges for schools to force the conservation of water, in a country that has more than it knows what to do with).

Yeah, thats all we've received from Europe :rolleyes:

Bring on the Euro Superstate I say, if just to dilute the likes of Libertas and Youth Defence and ensure I've one thing fewer in common then that shower.

Interestingly an elderly woman came in to the shop I work yesterday, with a real cool Libertas baseball cap that defied her 80 odd years. Struck up a conversation, eventually she swings it around to the referendum and then starts telling me that the treaty will bring about the end of Catholocism in Ireland, and is an attack on Christianity.
I asked her to leave the shop.

Lockstep

vote4pedro wrote: »

I asked her to leave the shop.

Unprofessional:mad:

RKDus

It does seem like very few people understand what exactly the treaty means for Ireland. Brian Cowen made a good point that it's a complex document that you don't need to understand. It sounds a bit Big Brotherish but if you go to a solicitor, you don't need to know the details of what he does you just take his advice and trust him.

As for Libertas, they seem like a very shady organisation. There was an interesting article on Indymedia about them recently http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87311

Lockstep

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055291039&page=13

marco murphy

It does seem like very few people understand what exactly the treaty means for Ireland. Brian Cowen made a good point that it's a complex document that you don't need to understand. It sounds a bit Big Brotherish but if you go to a solicitor, you don't need to know the details of what he does you just take his advice and trust him.

As for Libertas, they seem like a very shady organisation. There was an interesting article on Indymedia about them recently http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87311

Who honestly gives a shíte about Libertas? They will be dead and gone come Thursday. Declan Ganley has business interests in 10 EU countries. The only reason he is opposing this is because he wouldn't want to see coroporation tax being harmonised.

vote4pedro

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Unprofessional:mad:

I was hungover, and working on my own...my shop, my rules, no crazies.

colly10

Poblachtach wrote: »

Sinn Féin are pro-EU....

Have Sinn Fein not been on the no side of nearly all EU treaty's?

Von Manstein

Poblachtach wrote: »

Well thats simply bullsh1t.

Colourful way to describe my argument - any decent points to back it up?

Poblachtach wrote: »

Sinn Féin are pro-EU and simply believe that a better deal can be had for the country. You are the first and only one to state that ''the oppressor being the EU''. Goes to show. Sinn Fein have nothing to hide, they have comprehensively set out the reasons why they are taking the position they are. There is nothing about oppression, so don't be misleading people.

Sinn fein having nothing to hide - where have you been the past thirty years?
Likewise, it is completly true to say that Sinn fein and the no camp are deliberately misleading and confursing people. And as for my comment on the EU being the oppressor in many Sinn fein and no campaigners eyes - I'm not far off in using such a word. Surely your've noticed the republican posters entitled 'People died for your freedom - vote no to lisbon' against the background of the proclamation of independence riddleing the streets of Dublin?

Judging both from your patriotic Irish user name and the lack of substance in your post I'm guessing you've failed to look outside the box of sinn fein politics. I'll once again remind you that the reform treaty was not only negotiated by the Irish Government to its own independent satisfaction over a period of 2 long years of discussion, but it (ie Bertie Ahern) has already chosen willingly to sign it (as have 26 other member states with their own needs and wants). Why? Because it got a treaty which it was happy with. This treay didnt just pop out of no where to be voted on and it sure as hell wasnt forced on anyone. Each member state didnt sign it until it was happy with what it was getting. Would you sign something you were not happy with?

Step outside your box and ask yourself - would you - as a government (be you Ireland or Malta or Germany) sign something which you where not happy with? The government negotiated the treaty to its own satisfactions. The long bargaining and dealing by Ireland has already taken place to exhaustion -but also to the satisfaction of what Ireland wanted.

Yet again the point is is that the Irish Government has already had its say, decided that it got what it wanted and gone off and decided - we are getting a fair deal - were happy - were going to to say yes. And they have. Bertie Ahern on behalf of the Irish government (as well as every other head of state for each member country) has chosen to sign up to what they negotated for.

To say that we can get a 'better deal' is completly ignoring the fact that the negotiations have already occured - to the complete satisfaction of many clever Irish diplomats and politicians - each looking out for Ireland's interests amd not that of a marginalised nationalistic political party looking for votes.

briantwin

Tax harmonisation = nothing at all to do with the Lisbon treaty at all!

Read this:
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/tax-harmonisation-by-back-door-threatens-our-economic-survival-1353847.html?r=RSS

This is trivial at this point. The Lisbon treaty will not affect corporation tax at all.

NaiveMelodies

There was an excellent article in the IT last weekend about Declan Ganley, the leader of Libertas.

They highlighted around 5 business projects wich went AWOL that Ganley has partaken in.
Sounds like a chancer to me.
The whole Libertas org has a smell of capatilists about them which can hardly be a bad thing.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

only1stevo wrote: »

There was an excellent article in the IT last weekend about Declan Ganley, the leader of Libertas.

They highlighted around 5 business projects wich went AWOL that Ganley has partaken in.
Sounds like a chancer to me.
The whole Libertas org has a smell of capatilists about them which can hardly be a bad thing.

he is an american neocon, without even being american

Pompey Magnus

Roundtower2 wrote: »

he is an american neocon, without even being american

Or in a more accurate sense he is an Irish telecommunications entreprenuer who was honoured by the state of Louisianna for preventing greater loss of life after Hurricane Katrina by providing communications capabilities to the US Military rescue effort and who established Rivada Networks in the aftermath of 9-11 which would assist emergency responses to quickly and safely get to victims of terrorist attacks.

But "neocon" sounds scarier so go with that if you want.

Davidius

They're terrorists.

seanieb

Poblachtach wrote: »

Who honestly gives a shíte about Libertas? They will be dead and gone come Thursday. Declan Ganley has business interests in 10 EU countries. The only reason he is opposing this is because he wouldn't want to see coroporation tax being harmonised.

Well this would prove you wrong on that front.
http://www.fpri.org/ww/0405.200312.ganley.euconstitution.html

It outlines a paper Ganley wrote for the Foreign Policy Research Institute (a far right American think tank) on the Constitutional Treaty and tax is not the issue. I think his interests lie elsewhere, no matter what they sold to the Irish people.

seanieb

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

Or in a more accurate sense he is an Irish telecommunications entreprenuer who was honoured by the state of Louisianna for preventing greater loss of life after Hurricane Katrina by providing communications capabilities to the US Military rescue effort and who established Rivada Networks in the aftermath of 9-11 which would assist emergency responses to quickly and safely get to victims of terrorist attacks.

God that sounds like an intro a Fox news host would give one of their far right heroes before an interview, which is in fact a thinly disguised circle jerk.

I would feel more comfortable if he had been had he been honoured by the Galway city council for filling sand bags preventing flooding down the Spanish Arch, and establishing a carrier pidgin set up for council workers to coordinate... His services to the US buy him no political good will here, nor should they.

Ideologically, politically and his business have a LOT of ties to the US, namely far right republicans.. Then after all that jumps into the Irish political arena! WHY?

There are more questions than answers about Ganley and Libertas.

PS. Why are people saying he's Irish? Was he not born in the UK? is the accent not a give away?

King of Kings

it's a pity osama bin laden didn't declare his stance on lisbon - he could have won it for cowan in the end if he was a yes man.

seanieb

Thanks for that King of Kings...now about Libertas...

i_love_toast

heard this off a boss of mine thats a big internet freak and spends his time reading up on these things.apparently there business men who have company's all over Europe and especially America.So the raising of corporation tax would affect them ALOT and especially if the lisbon treaty went ahead it would take a LOT of reliability from importing from america and since they have lots of companys there it would affect them.when there leader was asked why he did so much work for the no vote he said he did it for his kids because he wants them to grow up in a free ireland.total rubbish!its all about money!!

panda100

Theres a good,extensive,well researched article on who and what Libertas Is here : http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87311

TheVan

panda100 wrote: »

Theres a good,extensive,well researched article on who and what Libertas Is here : http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87311

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Try the Irish Times article a few weeks back....perhaps might be better researched?