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why did god create cancer?

ch3rry

why did god create nazis?

why did god create the taliban?

why did god create AIDS?

why did god create the bubonic plague?

why did god create homosexuality?

why did god create natural disasters?

why did god let 80,000 people die in the earthquakes in china?

why did god not save my aunt from cancer?

why did god give my granny arthritis? (she goes to mass every sunday)

why did god create siamese twins?

why did god create malaria?

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AlmightyCushion

Why did God create you? Surely he could have done something a little more worthwhile with his time.

Zombrex

ch3rry wrote: »

why did god create nazis?

why did god create the taliban?

why did god create AIDS?

why did god create the bubonic plague?

why did god create homosexuality?

why did god create natural disasters?

why did god let 80,000 people die in the earthquakes in china?

why did god not save my aunt from cancer?

why did god give my granny arthritis? (she goes to mass every sunday)

why did god create siamese twins?

why did god create malaria?

As punishment for Adam, and our, disobedience.

Genesis 3
17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it';
Cursed is the ground because of you;
In toil you will eat of it
All the days of your life.
18"Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;
And you will eat the plants of the field;
19By the sweat of your face
You will eat bread,
Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust,
And to dust you shall return."

Man will toil and struggle with nature until we eventually return to it, as punishment for disobeying God (ie sin)

AlmightyCushion

In fairness that's a pretty harsh punishment for eating his apple. Imagine what he'd do to you if you nailed his wife. :pac:

PDN

ch3rry wrote: »

why did god create nazis?

why did god create the taliban?

He didn't. Not a single child was ever born a Nazi. To be a Nazi or a member of the Taliban is a human choice. The same applies to homosexuality although I certainly reject any implication that homosexuality is akin to Nazism.

As for many of the other things you mention, Wicknight is correct that much of it is due to the Fall and to man's sinfulness, but I believe much of it is as a consequence rather than a punishment.

I guess some diseases and viruses may well have mutated and evolved in conditions that have been shaped by human behaviour. AIDS may only became a problem for humans, for example, because of humans slaughtering large amounts of monkeys. It seems reasonable to me that viruses may once have served a benign purpose in an overall ecosystem.

I'm pretty sure that arthritis and cancer could have been eradicated by now if we spent as much on research that we do on developing weapons or PS3 games. Instead we pump our air full of pollution, eat processed foods etc. and then blame God when people get sick.

Zombrex

PDN wrote: »

He didn't. Not a single child was ever born a Nazi. To be a Nazi or a member of the Taliban is a human choice. The same applies to homosexuality although I certainly reject any implication that homosexuality is akin to Nazism.

As for many of the other things you mention, Wicknight is correct that much of it is due to the Fall and to man's sinfulness, but I believe much of it is as a consequence rather than a punishment.

I guess some diseases and viruses may well have mutated and evolved in conditions that have been shaped by human behaviour. AIDS may only became a problem for humans, for example, because of humans slaughtering large amounts of monkeys. It seems reasonable to me that viruses may once have served a benign purpose in an overall ecosystem.

I'm pretty sure that arthritis and cancer could have been eradicated by now if we spent as much on research that we do on developing weapons or PS3 games. Instead we pump our air full of pollution, eat processed foods etc. and then blame God when people get sick.

Wow ...

Fanny Cradock

Yeah, I, too, though it was a good reply.

BJC

Wicknight wrote: »

As punishment for Adam, and our, disobedience.

I didn't eat no damn apple so why do I get punished?

AtomicHorror

PDN wrote: »

He didn't. Not a single child was ever born a Nazi. To be a Nazi or a member of the Taliban is a human choice. The same applies to homosexuality although I certainly reject any implication that homosexuality is akin to Nazism.

Homosexuality is a choice now? How does one choose a sexuality. And if we are merely talking about expression of it, why would anyone choose to face social exclusion, bigotry, violence and possibly death? I take your point on Nazism and other forms of extremism but seriously PDN... is that how you see sexuality?

PDN wrote: »

I guess some diseases and viruses may well have mutated and evolved in conditions that have been shaped by human behaviour. AIDS may only became a problem for humans, for example, because of humans slaughtering large amounts of monkeys. It seems reasonable to me that viruses may once have served a benign purpose in an overall ecosystem.

Did carnivores not exist in the garden? Did leaf-eating herbivores not exist? All do damage to other organisms. Symbiosis is rare by comparison. Evolution is the survival of the fittest- in that respect, viruses are very fit indeed. We have benefited from the actions of some viruses- they inadvertently allow horizontal gene transfer in organisms normally too complex for the process. For the most part though, they do not benefit us at all. Except that the evolution of the human mind is now allowing us to make use of viruses to treat genetic disease.

As to human influence on the evolution of viruses- certainly, but it is minimal in the grand scheme of things. We've only had about 100,000 years of active influence. Viruses are ancient- they have probably existed almost as long as true life forms. A couple of billion years. They've always been pathogenic.

PDN wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that arthritis and cancer could have been eradicated by now if we spent as much on research that we do on developing weapons or PS3 games. Instead we pump our air full of pollution, eat processed foods etc. and then blame God when people get sick.

Weapons I'll give you. Processed foods is a complex issue. Pollution is of course a serious problem. People need leisure time, so I don't see why you have beef with that industry. The money involved could be seen as obscene but it is what people are willing to pay in order to unwind and relax. Many of these people are the same people who are working to combat cancer and arthritis, or in my case, genetic disorders. There's no shortage of funding for such research though third world diseases are another matter. I think my work would suffer if I lost my PS3! Perhaps we should all play chess, but to my mind it is merely a modern leisure tool in a modern world.

AtomicHorror

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Yeah, I, too, though it was a good reply.

By "good" do you mean "worrying"?

iUseVi

PDN wrote: »

He didn't. Not a single child was ever born a Nazi. To be a Nazi or a member of the Taliban is a human choice. The same applies to homosexuality although I certainly reject any implication that homosexuality is akin to Nazism.

I really think gay people would disagree with this. I'm sure they are born that way, and they can't choose to be different, although many Christians try to force young gay people to change - mostly with horrific psychological results.

PDN wrote: »

I guess some diseases and viruses may well have mutated and evolved in conditions that have been shaped by human behaviour. AIDS may only became a problem for humans, for example, because of humans slaughtering large amounts of monkeys. It seems reasonable to me that viruses may once have served a benign purpose in an overall ecosystem.

Your AIDS example, is of course correct. But viruses are killing machines. They serve absolutely no other purpose than to reproduce themselves. They can only do so by horrifically hijacking other organism's cells. There is literally no other way that they can reproduce themselves.

What sort of benign behaviour did you have in mind, exactly?

PDN wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that arthritis and cancer could have been eradicated by now if we spent as much on research that we do on developing weapons or PS3 games. Instead we pump our air full of pollution, eat processed foods etc. and then blame God when people get sick.

Correct. Humans will be the ones to cure these diseases. This doesn't address the OP's original question though, why did God create these debilitating diseases???

iUseVi

Wicknight wrote: »

Wow ...

You forgot your [/sarcasm] tag. Some people get confused very easily.

ch3rry

PDN wrote: »

He didn't. Not a single child was ever born a Nazi. To be a Nazi or a member of the Taliban is a human choice. The same applies to homosexuality although I certainly reject any implication that homosexuality is akin to Nazism.

As for many of the other things you mention, Wicknight is correct that much of it is due to the Fall and to man's sinfulness, but I believe much of it is as a consequence rather than a punishment.

I guess some diseases and viruses may well have mutated and evolved in conditions that have been shaped by human behaviour. AIDS may only became a problem for humans, for example, because of humans slaughtering large amounts of monkeys. It seems reasonable to me that viruses may once have served a benign purpose in an overall ecosystem.

I'm pretty sure that arthritis and cancer could have been eradicated by now if we spent as much on research that we do on developing weapons or PS3 games. Instead we pump our air full of pollution, eat processed foods etc. and then blame God when people get sick.

There's nothing really solid in that reply. A load of **** to be honest. Lots of guessing, assuming and believing. Basically making up new science.

I could poke holes for hours but I'm hungover and couldn't really be bothered.

Can ye not see, as 21st century, smart, human beings, that christianity is just a little silly?

"GO CREATED EVERYTHING" according to the bible, oh but wait, says 1 boards user, he didn't really create this that the other blah blah blah, it seems, I believe.....

The amount of crap in the bible is unreal.

Genesis 2

2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

So adam named every creature in the world? What the feck.

Genesis 7

7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

So noah's flood covered all the mountains eh? Even mount everest. That's a lot of water. Wonder where it came from.

I give up.

Bye bye.

Sapien

Wicknight wrote: »

Wow ...

Amazing that an omnipotent, omniscient being can create a universe and yet, somehow, not be responsible for anything that happens in it. Impressive intellectual acrobatics there, PDN.

Akrasia

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Yeah, I, too, though it was a good reply.

You're not a creationist or a biblical literalist, Unless you believe the story of Adam and Eve, how could 'the fall' possibly be a satisfactory explanation for you?

Zombrex

BJC wrote: »

I didn't eat no damn apple so why do I get punished?

Because in the Judo-Christian tradition inflicting suffering on others close to the person is considered a valid way to punish someone

More often than not this lands on the unfortunate wife or children of the person being "punished". We are considered the children of Adam and Eve.

MagicMarker

ch3rry wrote: »

why did god create nazis?

why did god create the taliban?

why did god create AIDS?

why did god create the bubonic plague?

why did god create homosexuality?

why did god create natural disasters?

why did god let 80,000 people die in the earthquakes in china?

why did god not save my aunt from cancer?

why did god give my granny arthritis? (she goes to mass every sunday)

why did god create siamese twins?

why did god create malaria?

I blame the greeks.

robindch

MagicMarker wrote: »

I blame the greeks.

Even though they brought such gifts?

Schuhart

iUseVi wrote: »

I really think gay people would disagree with this. I'm sure they are born that way, and they can't choose to be different,

I'm sure many gay people would agree with you, but some might equally query the concept of this being determined at birth - while not necessarily feeling its some that can, or needs to be, changed.

iUseVi

Schuhart wrote: »

I'm sure many gay people would agree with you, but some might equally query the concept of this being determined at birth - while not necessarily feeling its some that can, or needs to be, changed.

Think about this. Do you think that by force of will you could change your sexuality?

Schuhart

iUseVi wrote: »

Think about this. Do you think that by force of will you could change your sexuality?

I have absolutely no idea. But I reckon that if I'd grown up in a radically different culture, I might hold any amount of different ideas about things. If I was an ancient Greek, I might have some idea that love was something old men felt for young boys while anything I did with women would have been mostly for the good of the species. I really don't know.

AtomicHorror

I'm not sure anyone is born to a sexuality- it seems to be a mutable element of psychology, albeit not one that we can control. A man may become gay. It is not his choice. The expression of that drive is of course a choice, but as I said it is hardly one that would be taken lightly, nor as a petty act of beligerence against the establishment, given the irrational attitudes towards minority sexualities. I have great admiration for the men and women who have the courage not just to be something that some find abhorrent, but to stand up and make it known that they choose to accept who they are and try to find personal happiness through it. I doubt I'll ever face such a difficult choice and I wonder if I'd choose the honest and brave path if I did.

AtomicHorror

robindch wrote: »

Even though they brought such gifts?

Yes even though! This greek guy bought a friend of mine a coffee maker for his engagement. He sent it right back and a good thing too. Turns out it was full of greek soldiers.

Akrasia

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I'm not sure anyone is born to a sexuality- it seems to be a mutable element of psychology, albeit not one that we can control. A man may become gay. It is not his choice. The expression of that drive is of course a choice, but as I said it is hardly one that would be taken lightly, nor as a petty act of beligerence against the establishment, given the irrational attitudes towards minority sexualities. I have great admiration for the men and women who have the courage not just to be something that some find abhorrent, but to stand up and make it known that they choose to accept who they are and try to find personal happiness through it. I doubt I'll ever face such a difficult choice and I wonder if I'd choose the honest and brave path if I did.

I think the real question is, who do you think a loving god would prefer, A man or woman who happens to be gay, who lives a peaceful life, loves his/her partner and shows respect and good will towards others.... or this pr1ck

A christian evangelist (with the support of 10% of the entire population of America) raving homophobe who secretly has gay sex with a male prostitute while using methamphetamines.

Fanny Cradock

Akrasia wrote: »

You're not a creationist or a biblical literalist, Unless you believe the story of Adam and Eve, how could 'the fall' possibly be a satisfactory explanation for you?

Your seem quite genuine in your question, Akrasia, so I'll attempt to give a genuine answer.

Firstly, and by way of semantics, I would consider myself a creationist and I do subscribe to biblical literalism. However, there are a couple of qualifiers that I should add in there to clear matters up. I am a creationist in the sense that I believe God, indeed, created the universe, but I don't believe he did it in ~6,000 years. Added to this, I interpret the Bible literally where I feel such and interpretation is required. Yes, such an approach can potentially lead to all sorts of arguments, but by way of example, I don't believe that Revelation can be taken any other way than metaphorical. Similarly, the story of creation would have to be taken metaphorically if you subscribe to the prevailing scientific consensus. If someone wants to take it another way, well, that's just fine by me.

As for Adam and Eve, I believe that they are symbolic pair used to describe a large population - say 20,000 individuals - who, over time, gained some spiritual uniqueness. It was this uniqueness, followed by the subsequent rejection of God, which I would consider to be The Fall.

iUseVi

Schuhart wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea. But I reckon that if I'd grown up in a radically different culture, I might hold any amount of different ideas about things. If I was an ancient Greek, I might have some idea that love was something old men felt for young boys while anything I did with women would have been mostly for the good of the species. I really don't know.

Fair enough, thanks for your honest response. :cool:I would have to admit that I would also not know. I still suspect genetic disposition may have something to do with it, but that's only a pet theory - no proof of that.:)

Akrasia

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Your seem quite genuine in your question, Akrasia, so I'll attempt to give a genuine answer.

Firstly, and by way of semantics, I would consider myself a creationist and I do subscribe to biblical literalism. However, there are a couple of qualifiers that I should add in there to clear matters up. I am a creationist in the sense that I believe God, indeed, created the universe, but I don't believe he did it in ~6,000 years. Added to this, I interpret the Bible literally where I feel such and interpretation is required. Yes, such an approach can potentially lead to all sorts of arguments, but by way of example, I don't believe that Revelation can be taken any other way than metaphorical. Similarly, the story of creation would have to be taken metaphorically if you subscribe to the prevailing scientific consensus. If someone wants to take it another way, well, that's just fine by me.

As for Adam and Eve, I believe that they are symbolic pair used to describe a large population - say 20,000 individuals - who, over time, gained some spiritual uniqueness. It was this uniqueness, followed by the subsequent rejection of God, which I would consider to be The Fall.

Thanks for your reply.

I just want to understand your position. By the fall, you mean early human civilisation rejected god, but these people lived in a time before god ever revealed himself. (unless you believe the fall was after Abraham?)

Or perhaps you believe that early human civilisation had a much closer relationship with god and chose to disobey him anyway? In which case, it seems very unfair that God would give those early and primitive people the benefit of a closer physical relationship but expect us to believe in him simply out of faith.

Akrasia

iUseVi wrote: »

Fair enough, thanks for your honest response. :cool:I would have to admit that I would also not know. I still suspect genetic disposition may have something to do with it, but that's only a pet theory - no proof of that.:)

Well, I have a few gay friends, and while some of them recognised their sexuality from a young age, a few of them tried desperately to 'be' straight well into their twenties.

Being gay certainly isn't a conscious choice. While someone who denies their sexuality they cause enormous problems for themselves and for the women they try and to be with.

The only way they can be happy is by accepting who they are. It is a total contradiction to say that god loves his children while compelling them to live a lie, or deny a fundamental part of their personalities.

dlofnep

Wicknight wrote: »

Because in the Judo-Christian tradition inflicting suffering on others close to the person is considered a valid way to punish someone

More often than not this lands on the unfortunate wife or children of the person being "punished". We are considered the children of Adam and Eve.

Eleventy billion generations later? I'm the child of Mary and Johnny. Not Adam and Eve. Thank you.. Although I will warn my father to be on the lookout for this Adam chap, just incase he decides to deliver milk.

Zombrex

dlofnep wrote: »

Eleventy billion generations later? I'm the child of Mary and Johnny. Not Adam and Eve. Thank you.. Although I will warn my father to be on the lookout for this Adam chap, just incase he decides to deliver milk.

If you don't believe it then don't be a Christian :pac:

Schuhart

iUseVi wrote: »

I still suspect genetic disposition may have something to do with it, but that's only a pet theory - no proof of that.:)

You could be right, it may simply be genetic. I'd similarly not be dogmatic about feeling it could be largely environmental. From the perspective of the individual, it may not matter as the personal experience of the situation may be just as permanent.

I don't know if this is a useful thought, but I found myself wondering if we could envisage a Rangers supporter choosing to change over to Celtic (or vice versa). To what extent would we feel that supporting Celtic or Rangers would be a choice? Its not an analogy I'd take into too much detail - but I think it does highlight that there are things that are very much part of our identity, seem unchangeable, that are hard to assign a genetic cause to.

I was just reflecting on the title question, and feeling its not as useful an idea as it seems. We have a finite life. That life ends because, one way or another, your body wears out - whether by old age, accident or disease. So, to be honest, the question is really just why is there an array of different ways - sudden and slow, painful and not so painful - that your finite life can come to an end (to say nothing of the array of fun and bad things that can happen along the way, from getting rained on to getting sunburn to being dumped to winning the Nobel prize, yadda yadda).

It really just amounts to looking out at all of that stuff around us and saying 'whats all that about, or is it about anything'.