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TEFL/CELTA/CELT answers...

KevinDublin

Hi Folks,

Just stumbled onto this thread and thought I might be able to help shed some light on the TEFL/CELTA etc ESL courses. I’ve been teaching English for about a decade now in different countries around the world and there seems to be some confusion about the different type of courses that are out there.

Firstly; In order to be considered qualified to teach English in Ireland (or in the UK) the ONLY certificates allowed are certificated issued by ACELS (the English schools branch of the Dept. of Ed.). This means that I to I courses are NOT valid TEFL courses to teach in Ireland. A full list of these providers can be found on www.acels.ie

If you are planning on teaching outside of Eire or the UK, schools tend to be less strict, in some cases, just being a native speaker of English is a sufficient qualification to teach. In other cases, having a piece of paper with “TEFL COURSE COMPLETED” on it is a bonus! That’s where the I to I courses fit in.

If you are looking to actually learn to be an English teacher, you should do either the CELTA or the CELT. IMO both courses are the best qualifications in the world to become and English teacher. Also, BOTH will allow you to teach in Ireland and the UK but also are very highly regarded everywhere else.

Whats the difference between the CELTA and the CELT?
One difference is that the CELTA is run by Cambridge University whereas the CELT is an Irish Dept of education (acels) certificate.
The CELT is also considerably cheaper, (around 1000 euros Vs 1500 for the CELTA)

Realistically, to learn to teach English, you have to, at some stage stand up in front of a bunch of non native students and learn by doing. The CELT has at least 8 hours of you teaching students whilst being observed by a trainer. That kind of experience is invaluable and cannot be found by these nonsense online courses.

My advice for people looking to teacher at home or abroad is to do a CELT course. It might be 200 or 300 euros more expensive that the online or weekend courses but it will equip you to be an English teacher and even if you are not planning to teach in Ireland, you never know what will happen in the future and you might find yourself having to apply in Ireland for a few hours work in which case the CELT course will stand to you.

I’ve heard that Annalivia School in Dun Laoghaire run some of the best CELT courses in Ireland and they have full and part time options. Their website is www.annaliviaschool.com

Sorry for such a long post but I go into rant mode when I see some of the false claims floating around about weekend courses on online course enabling you to teach. They neither qualify you nor equip you!!!

I'd be happy to answer any questions.. I don't know everything about the topic but I'll give it a go.

PS: I know I'm not supposed to link to websites on my first post but I'm not advertising anything... Just humble opinion as a teacher.

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extra-ordinary_

Yes i agree! I attended one of those weekend courses and it didn't teach me much at all. I am doing a CELTA course now and i am learning so much .. shows you everyting from lesson plans to class management issues!

KevinDublin

Yeah absolutely... It's ridiculous to think that you can learn to teach without ever teaching students.

The course is hard work though isn't it!

LurkingLady

I've got some issues with the ACELS system to be honest

Personally I did CELTA in Prague 2 years ago so I'm all set but I used to work in a language school where the secretary had a Master's in TEFL but was not allowed to work in her profession because she did her degree in Poland.
Yes, yes, you may say she's not a native speaker and therefore has no business teaching EFL in Ireland, but
a) her English was brilliant - you would never think she was not a native speaker
b) she had over 500 hours of practical EFL training at college (as opposed to 120 that you get during CELTA/CELT courses) not to mention COUNTLESS lectures on teaching, child psychology, psycholinguistics etc etc!

A certificate is nothing, tbh, compared to that..

Anyway, just so my rant is not completely off topic:
all of ye who have TEFL certificates may find this site useful: www.tefl.com

KevinDublin

You are right... Kinda :-)

Acels don't have any problems with Non native teachers teaching EFL, as long as the schools don't advertise that their teachers all all native and then employ Non native teachers.

And, as you said, there are alot of them out there that are amazing teachers. They have the advantage of having had to learn English from the start, whereas most Irish English speakers couldn't tell you the difference between present perfect and present continuous :-)

But, from a sales point of view, if I was going to learn French in France, I wouldn't be too happy if I had an Irish French teacher. So it's down to that moreso than ACELS.

IMHO

LurkingLady

True, true...

My point was not so much that she wouldn't be employed by a language school as that ACELS wouldn't consider her qualifications satisfactory (if I remember correctly, it states that you need a 120+hrs TEFL certificate or equivalent - if you ask me, a 5-year university course should be considered satisfactory)

You are right about the marketing thing.
HOWEVER, what about the year-long courses (as opposed to summer courses) for immigrants. It has been proved that with adults who are only beginning to learn English the use of mother tongue has been highly beneficial. In such cases having a non-native TEFL teacher on staff would surely be useful for the school marketing-wise

KevinDublin

Sorry I get you now:o

That is crazy... Did she present her Degreee to ACELS? I'm surprised that turned that down!

And you are right about using L1 for beginners it is very useful and so yes, native teachers would be the way to go. Problem is though that very few schools will have a mono-lingual group of beginners. Most schools want to fill the classes and so will accept students from everywhere and so obviously will be excluded if the teacher is speaking anything but English.

LurkingLady

KevinDublin wrote: »

Sorry I get you now:o

That is crazy... Did she present her Degreee to ACELS? I'm surprised that turned that down!

She did. She came to Ireland in 2006 and sent in all the documents immediately after arrival. After 3 months she got a negative reply - they did not give her any reasons so she wrote a letter asking for explanation - they told her they will look into her case again as soon as she resends them the documents. She did. She waited another three months and got nothing - silence. Every time she called they told her they are still looking into it. When she got nothing from them by August 2007 she gave up trying...
She went back to Poland in October and is doing a PhD in TEFL in Krakow. She's working as a language teacher in one of the local language schools and is earning twice as much as she was a secretary in Ireland (which, supposedly, is a lot by Polish standards) so I'd say she's pretty happy.

I'm just sort of sad Ireland lost someone who could, potentially (I never saw her teach), be a brilliant TEFL teacher. God only knows we have too many bad ones here!

ferdi

Hi KevinDublin!

Your comments so far have been most enlightening, thank you. I have a quick question. Would the CELTA be valid for teaching teenagers or is it adult specific?

KevinDublin

Hi Ferdi,

Both the Celta and CELT are designed as general EFL courses and although they don't focus on teaching Juniors, they will cover methodolgy on teaching them. Your teaching practise will probably be with Adult learners.

Essentially, both courses will equip you to put together a class plan to teach any non native learner.

Also, it's worth bearing in mind that most schools that teach juniors will have their own courses and will be providing you with the materials to teach them with.

Hope that helps!

Learning

Hi Kevin, thank you for your post it has been very helpful. I have been teaching Geography for 5 years in the UK and I am looking for a teaching job in Ireland at the minute. My big problem is that I only have 1 subject, I have recently been looking at the ACELS course. My question is, if I completed this course is it likely that it would benefit me in getting a position in a secondary school here? Do the secondary schools here take on TEFL teachers? Secondly, is this a qualification that would allow you to teach English as a subject in its own right in a secondary school to pupils who's first language is English, to say Junior and Leaving Cert? (Ive got an idea the answer is no but its worth checking with you).
Any info you could give me is very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

extra-ordinary_

Learning wrote: »

Hi Kevin, thank you for your post it has been very helpful. I have been teaching Geography for 5 years in the UK and I am looking for a teaching job in Ireland at the minute. My big problem is that I only have 1 subject, I have recently been looking at the ACELS course. My question is, if I completed this course is it likely that it would benefit me in getting a position in a secondary school here? Do the secondary schools here take on TEFL teachers? Secondly, is this a qualification that would allow you to teach English as a subject in its own right in a secondary school to pupils who's first language is English, to say Junior and Leaving Cert? (Ive got an idea the answer is no but its worth checking with you).
Any info you could give me is very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

HI!
Multiculture and EFL is a relatively new phenomenon in Ireland and as such secondary schools are looking for EFL teachers. It will not qualify you ti teach English as your subject as you need to have studied drama and poetry and other things which are on the syllabus. However some schools , will employ a teacher who hasn't got that subject as their chosen subject.

Learning

Thanks for the info Extra - Ordinary, I really appreciate any advice I can get, teaching is very hard to break into here!

KevinDublin

Agree... Although there was alot in the newspapers yesterday about primary and secondary schools not having sufficient resources to teach non native speakers English in schools.

Can't remember which minister was being interviewed, but he was suggesting TEFL teachers need to be brought in, rather than just usiung resource teachers.

TheDudeAbides

Which is the best accreditation for someone looking to travel throughout Europe (Spain, Portugal, etc)? I'm not really looking to teach full time, but I reckon it'd be a nice idea to have an English teaching qualification in my back pocket as a sort of plan B. Only thing is I've got no college degree so I'd really want to make sure the accreditation is worth the paper it's printed on. (I kinda figured the online or 40-hour ones were ****e but anyway, thanks for clearing it up)

Have any of you any advice for me?

owlwink

What is the most cost effective and rewarding foreign country to teach tefl in for a year?????????

Rimbaud

I hear Japan/Korea...the Asian countries are the most rewarding financially when it comes to tefl.

I have the same question as TheDudeAbides, i don't have a degree

I have a diploma in Youth Work though (which probably does'nt matter much).
And i understand you have to have a degree to be able to do the CELTA?

I've been looking into the tefl international courses which are 4 week intensive course based in a good few countries worldwide.You get practical teaching experience also...these look like the best option if you don't hold a degree?
But looking at tefl positions advertised for Asian countries, they nearly all require a degree as well as a tefl certificate.

owlwink

Rimbaud wrote: »

I hear Japan/Korea...the Asian countries are the most rewarding financially when it comes to tefl.

I have the same question as TheDudeAbides, i don't have a degree
I have a diploma in Youth Work though (which probably does'nt matter much).
And i understand you have to have a degree to be able to do the CELTA?

I've been looking into the tefl international courses which are 4 week intensive course based in a good few countries worldwide.You get practical teaching experience also...these look like the best option if you don't hold a degree?
But looking at tefl positions advertised for Asian countries, they nearly all require a degree as well as a tefl certificate.

Thanks for that man

:):):):)

civilian

I'm looking into doing this too. Having the CELTA certificate would hopefully help me earn a bit of money on my travels. I'm going to start in Spain...doing the course in Barcelona at IH.
I've no degree either.
Does anyone know what countries its possible to earn the most money from this? Do all countries in Asia require a degree to teach there.

also, to anyone whose done the Celta course, what are your experiences.
How difficult was it to find work?
Did you enjoy it?

hunnybunny

hey there,
Interesting thread.
I have taught in Dubai (primary school) with a degree only (no TEFL cert) for 1 year.

I am now going to England to do my PGCE to be a qualified teacher. Would a CELTA or TEFL be a bonus on top of this, or do you think that the PGCE would be enough, to work abroad that is?
Would a CELTA or TEFL make it easier to get into teaching in Universities in some countries, when combined with a PGCE?

On TES, all that seems to be required is a PGCE for international primary schools.

But I d love to know if its worth my while to do a CELTA or TEFL as I ll be home next summer (2009) in any case and I may as well do something constructive whilst I wait for the new term to start.

See Ye

Hello everyone, I just want to add a bit to Kevin Dublin's fine information. Just so you know I'm actually a tutor on the CELTA courses at IH Paris and have been teaching EFL for 14 years.

Until this thread I was unaware of "CELT" - all this means essentially is that if you are travelling to teach outside Ireland you may have to answer questions on course content - see if you can get a copy of the syllabus to show potential employers.

CELTA qualifications are awarded by UCLES (University of Cambridge Local Examinations Syndicate), aka "Cambridge". Prices and the exact format of the course may vary but they all cover the same principles. You are observed teaching a minimum of six adult learners for a total of six hours, you will also observe qualified teachers for six hours. There are also four written assignments to be completed during the course.

Since Cambridge are also home of the most widely recognised EFL exams for learners their teaching certificate is also the most widely known / accepted.

Ferdi the "A" in CELTA stands for "Adults", there is nothing on the syllabus which covers working with teenagers or younger - some courses may have a single workshop on "Young Learners" altho' since Cambridge have a specific qualification for this you may not even get that much. (We don't deal with the subject in Paris.) I don't know how this compares to CELT.

Originally you had to have a university degree to be accepted onto CELTA courses now the guideline is "degree or equivalent qualification", the lower age limit is 20; a certain amount of discretion is allowed. If you are interested go for it ... there will be a pre-interview task which should give you an idea of what you're in for.

Weekend courses such as those run by "i-to-i" are really "taster" courses designed to do two things a) Prevent people going off to teach with absolutely no idea whatsoever and giving us all a bad name

& b) Giving people a chance to see if EFL really is the thing for them before paying out for a full certificate course.

When looking at wages don't forget how much you'll need to make your life somewhere. For example teachers in Kuwait reckon it takes about a year to pay for the car, home entertainment system, furniture etc. before you can start to save anything.

Any questions and I'll do my best but Kevin's your man for Ireland specific stuff.

red_bairn

hey, is it possible to get a job in a place near a friend when working on the TEFL course?

See Ye

Not sure I understand the question - the CELTA is an intensive course - five days a week for four weeks, with "homework", you wouldn't be able to do a job at the same time. Or is it the friend doing the course and you picking up work nearby ? If so I guess it depends what sort of work.

Rosita

Does anyone have any idea of the job prospects in the area of teaching English as a foreign language in Dublin?

I was thinking of doing the four-week course largely to get teaching experience and see how I'd find it, but I don't really was to spend a grand + four weeks and end up with nothing. I am not talking about a major career here, by the way, just reasonable possibilities of employment. It just seems to me that there are few barriers to entry and therefore there may be loads of people already qualified looking for employment.

Also, I have a BA degree with English as a major. Now I have no problem whatsoever studying for the CELT/CELTA etc. if it is absolutely necessary as a teaching qualification but am just wondering whether being a degree-holder in the subject makes any difference. I do acknowledge that actually teaching is a skill in itself which a BA in English obviously does not prepare you for so presumably it makes little or no difference in that sense, but am just wondering.

sitstill

I did one of these courses back in June, and although I wasn't depending on it for a job as I am a secondary school teacher, the instructors told us that there are plenty of jobs out there as there aren't enough TEFL teachers with properly recognised qualifications and this is especially true at peak times like summer.

red_bairn

See Ye, I'm guessing your talking to me about this.

My friend and I are wishing to get places of employment in the same area when doing the teaching practise (sorry earlier i said TEFL course, which isn't what i meant). Just so we can live together and so on so forth.

We were originally planning to do the TEFL Weekend Course but are gonna look into other options to make sure there isn't something better.

See Ye

red_bairn wrote: »

See Ye, I'm guessing your talking to me about this.

My friend and I are wishing to get places of employment in the same area when doing the teaching practise (sorry earlier i said TEFL course, which isn't what i meant). Just so we can live together and so on so forth.

We were originally planning to do the TEFL Weekend Course but are gonna look into other options to make sure there isn't something better.

OK, that's clearer. If you're talking about secondary education I can't help.

For EFL, a weekend course will give you an idea of what it's all about but you don't come away with a qualification and there's no teaching. If you do a CELTA you get observed teaching practice during the course; I can't see why that would be any different for other EFL qualifications - except the online ones of course.

carolmon

I completed the week long prep TEFL course run by the VEC in June and would be interested in completing the CELT training.

I've looked at the recommended training centre in Dun Laoghaire but in practical terms it's too far, can anybody recommend a centre city centre or west Dublin?
Thanks

is_that_so

See Ye wrote: »

OK, that's clearer. If you're talking about secondary education I can't help.

For EFL, a weekend course will give you an idea of what it's all about but you don't come away with a qualification and there's no teaching. If you do a CELTA you get observed teaching practice during the course; I can't see why that would be any different for other EFL qualifications - except the online ones of course.

It's not just CELTA that does teaching practice. ACELS courses have it as well. As for weekend courses, in my view they are of no real benefit to anyone that does not already have some kind of teaching experience/knowledge. I would also suggest that online courses are even less useful and really should be avoided completely.

The minimum people should be looking at if they think they want some kind of career out of it, is a four-week course (100 hours +) with teaching practice. ACELS is fine for Irish schools but CELTA is better for international jobs.

biko

Just stumbled onto this thread and thought I might be able to help shed some light on the TEFL/CELTA etc ESL courses. I’ve been teaching English for about a decade now in different countries around the world and there seems to be some confusion about the different type of courses that are out there.

Firstly; In order to be considered qualified to teach English in Ireland (or in the UK) the ONLY certificates allowed are certificated issued by ACELS (the English schools branch of the Dept. of Ed.). This means that I to I courses are NOT valid TEFL courses to teach in Ireland. A full list of these providers can be found on www.acels.ie

If you are planning on teaching outside of Eire or the UK, schools tend to be less strict, in some cases, just being a native speaker of English is a sufficient qualification to teach. In other cases, having a piece of paper with “TEFL COURSE COMPLETED” on it is a bonus! That’s where the I to I courses fit in.

If you are looking to actually learn to be an English teacher, you should do either the CELTA or the CELT. IMO both courses are the best qualifications in the world to become and English teacher. Also, BOTH will allow you to teach in Ireland and the UK but also are very highly regarded everywhere else.

Whats the difference between the CELTA and the CELT?
One difference is that the CELTA is run by Cambridge University whereas the CELT is an Irish Dept of education (acels) certificate.
The CELT is also considerably cheaper, (around 1000 euros Vs 1500 for the CELTA)

Realistically, to learn to teach English, you have to, at some stage stand up in front of a bunch of non native students and learn by doing. The CELT has at least 8 hours of you teaching students whilst being observed by a trainer. That kind of experience is invaluable and cannot be found by these nonsense online courses.

My advice for people looking to teacher at home or abroad is to do a CELT course. It might be 200 or 300 euros more expensive that the online or weekend courses but it will equip you to be an English teacher and even if you are not planning to teach in Ireland, you never know what will happen in the future and you might find yourself having to apply in Ireland for a few hours work in which case the CELT course will stand to you.

I’ve heard that Annalivia School in Dun Laoghaire run some of the best CELT courses in Ireland and they have full and part time options. Their website is www.annaliviaschool.com

Sorry for such a long post but I go into rant mode when I see some of the false claims floating around about weekend courses on online course enabling you to teach. They neither qualify you nor equip you!!!

I'd be happy to answer any questions.. I don't know everything about the topic but I'll give it a go.

Thanks for the info. I'm thinking of doing a course in Galway, would be good on the CV as well as the possibility of a nixer/going travelling again.

skydancer

Hi, really useful thread. I'd love advice on the following: an English teacher with 20+ yrs experience of teaching English at 2ndary level in Ireland / N Ireland wants to be able to TEFL in Italy, what certs / courses should she do or will she find work with the experience that she has?
Views, comments, experiences much appreciated. Thanks.