Talliesin wrote: » Galore and phoney are well known, but from what the OP says this book has a lot on some that haven't been known for ages like they have.
Silent Partner wrote: » I'm pretty sure phoney is not of Irish origin. According to the Bill Bryson book I'm currently reading, he gives the credit for that word to the Germans (I think, I don't have the book to hand to verify). There's a chapter in "Made in America" that talks about how the different groups of immigrants contributed to American language. He said he can only think of a handful that came from the Irish.
Amazotheamazing wrote: » have you ever noticed in Bryson's books that he doesn't really like the Irish?
Dear Evan: Can you tell me where the word "phoney" comes from? My grandfather told me that it is a form of "funny" (as in "funny money"). What do you think? -- Dan Cook, Toledo, OH. It's ironic that the most frequently asked questions about word origins (and this is one of them, right up there with "O.K." and "posh") are so often unanswerable. Numerous origins have been proposed for "phoney," but I may as well tell you in advance that none is certain. Such is life. It's hard to imagine a world without such a commonplace word as "phoney" (also spelled "phony"), but it's actually a remarkably recent word. Its first recorded appearance was in 1900, and it is generally agreed to be of American origin. Beyond that, things get very fuzzy. The Oxford English Dictionary, setting the pace for most other dictionary etymologies, says tersely, "of unknown origin." Undeterred, Merriam-Webster dictionaries until the mid-1930's endorsed the possibility you mention, that "phoney" is somehow a form of "funny," but this theory has since been generally abandoned. Other theories have included an attempt to tie "phoney" to "telephone," on the premise that conversations on the telephone are ephemeral and untrustworthy and thus "phoney." This theory had the notable distinction of being so awkward and silly that nearly no one believed it.The most likely source of "phoney," in the opinion of many authorities, is an English slang word "fawney," from the Irish word "fainne," meaning "ring." English "fawney men" (con artists) perfected a scam (called the "fawney rig") which involved the trickster "finding" a gold ring "of great value" (actually brass) and then agreeing to sell it to his victim out of the goodness of his heart. When the fawney men brought their racket to America, "fawney" became "phoney," a more general and very useful synonym for fake or false.
Amazotheamazing wrote: » For example, dictionary.com lists phoney's origins as : [Alteration of fawney, gilt brass ring used by swindlers, from Irish Gaelic fáinne, ring, from Old Irish.]
deman wrote: » I've lost faith in anything Bill Bryson writes
Earthhorse wrote: » Amazo, can't say I've noticed that about Bryson. Can you think of some examples?
Karlusss wrote: » Smithereens is another one. If I remember right, the guy who wrote that book is a Boston Irish guy with a pocket dictionary. Rather than a linguist. It seemed interesting though, I have to say.
IrishLinguist wrote: » In fact, this book is pure rubbish from beginning to end. There are occasional true Irish derivation words in the book (like phoney from fawney) but they are mostly uncredited and plagiarised by Daniel Cassidy. The vast majority of the book is just nonsense. There is no chance that Cassidy's candidates are the genuine origins of these words. Cassidy didn't know any Irish at all and although he worked as a professor, he had no degrees or qualifications of any kind. Avoid at all costs!
