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Child Item

Homeless / Begging community in Sligo

Radharc na Sleibhte

Whats the crack with the woman sitting outside the BOI on Stephen Street?
She has her (only) leg spread across the footpath for all to trip over.
A woman with a buggy actually couldn't get passed her earlier!

Is it legit, or is she just getting a sympathy stay?

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bobcar61

Yes, I have seen her there before and as far as I know she is always there but I thought she was in a wheelchair and the one leg she had was amputated

muffler

bobcar61 wrote: »

and the one leg she had was amputated

She has no legs now??

Radharc na Sleibhte

muffler wrote: »

She has no legs now??

She still has the one leg, or at least she did at 1430hrs today anyway.

The daughter literally drops her off in the morning (i.e. f%%%s her out of the wheelchair) and comes back in the evening to pick her up again!

Where does the daughter go with the wheelchair...........?????

bobcar61

I've only ever seen her in the wheelchair and sometimes she has a little table in front of her
I'm sure she is just a charity case though,good place to sit outside though...Imagine asking passers by coming out of the bank if they had money and the reply was no....how plausable would that be:p

brianthebard

She used to have a wheelchair but I imagine that she ilicts more sympathy by sitting splayed across the footpath. The leg sticking out is probably intentionally there to trip people, or at least bring them into her line of vision. What do you mean by legit OP?

TequilaMockingBird

I've seen her freewheeling down High Street,there was no traffic at the time :eek:

I saw the Guards talking to the young girl who sits outside the Meteor shop on O'Connell Street yesterday, they moved her. At least they don't have the babies with them anymore.

Culchie

To be honest, and it irks my conscience to say this, but I'm absolutely sick of her. Every day, same place. Why don't the bank move her own? If someone parked there, you'd soon get a ticket.

I contribute to charity on a regular basis, and volunteers my services when I can, but this woman is just pulling the Michael.

Cue controversy.

Xiney

Call me cynical, but I kind of figured when she started sitting on the ground that another person was using the wheelchair elsewhere to appear crippled...

I'm not generally callous towards panhandlers, there are far more of them where I'm from, but they generally don't play the sympathy card quite so blatantly - I take issue with that.

TequilaMockingBird

Its pretty awkward to explain it to a child.

Q: Has that lady only got one leg?

Q: Why?

Q: Why is she sitting on the wet ground?

Q: Why is she looking for money?

Q: Can I do it?

Q: How did she get there?

Q: Does she crawl home?

Q: Why can't I sit on the ground?

Answer: So, what will we get for dinner tonight pet?

Xiney

Ah, kids are innocent about it though. I have to laugh at the "does she crawl home" comment.

takola

Culchie wrote: »

To be honest, and it irks my conscience to say this, but I'm absolutely sick of her. Every day, same place. Why don't the bank move her own? If someone parked there, you'd soon get a ticket.

I contribute to charity on a regular basis, and volunteers my services when I can, but this woman is just pulling the Michael.

Cue controversy.

I feel the same way. I wouldn't give a penny and I can't stand seeing her splayed across the ground. I'd be very annoyed if I had a pram and couldn't get by her. I just have no patience with any of them.

TequilaMockingBird

I won't give them a penny or anyone collecting for health services. Local sports clubs etc, I might give a euro or two but otherwise I think its just begging. We shouldn't have to beg for basic health services in this country.

By the way, why do "the chuggers" feel they need to dance?! Do you really think if you are dancing in the middle of O'Connell Street that I will be more inclined to hand over my bank account details to you, as oppossed to some other random bloke who asks me for my bank details??!

Xiney

I feel sorry for the chuggers. That doesn't mean I'm going to give them anything.

At least the ones in Sligo aren't as aggressive as the ones in Dublin.

Culchie

Xiney wrote: »

I feel sorry for the chuggers. That doesn't mean I'm going to give them anything.

At least the ones in Sligo aren't as aggressive as the ones in Dublin.

I remember one evening about the year 2001 or so, we (work colleagues) net for christmas drinks the last friday before christmas.

it was absolutely pissing rain that night, and I needed cash. We were drinking in The Crane, a tiny pub (now closed) just off Dame Street. I popped over the road to the AIB hole in the wall to get a few bob, and there was this poor sod sitting in the pissing rain beside the cash machine. I got out my €100 or so for the night, and as I walked back accross the road to the pub, I decided to buy the poor fellah a meal from the chinese restaurant (pretty good one), most probably to ease my conscience so that I could get back to wasting my money on drink again. I guess the christmas spirit took hold of me.

So I went back over the street to the fellah sitting in the puddles, and said "Thats for you". he took one look at the food and threw it in the street. My lasting vision of night is watching all the rice float down the street with the stream of rainwater.

Xiney

Really though, she's in the same spot every day because that's the easiest thing, would you instead have her creatively come up with a new place every morning? Maybe close her eyes and point at a map? Don't mean to be snarky, but humans are creatures of habit and it would be quite difficult to go to different places to do this line of "work" I'd say.

Radharc na Sleibhte

I don't know why she sits outside a bank anyway.
What, does she expect to be swimming in loose tenners?
ATMs don't give out coins love.
She'd be much better off sitting outside an amusement arcade, if we had one. I'm gonna tell her to take a hike to Bundoran.

Xiney

She wouldn't be sitting there if she wasn't making any money.

Several people have a few coins leftover but nothing else so they go to the bank, and maybe since they're flush with all this cash now they don't feel like carrying the smaller bits. There's also the fact that that bit of Stephen Street gets a high volume of street traffic - higher than the side with Yeats and the Ulster Bank, and the path is narrower so it's harder to avoid her.

There are often several along O'Connell Street and one at the main Post office for the same reason - lots of foot traffic. They're also spread out, not in a group, not because they hope that the same person will give several of them money*, but because they know that way they cover more ground, and they are likely to be passed by by a larger percentage of downtown pedestrians. Also perhaps there is a knock-on effect of pity.

Obviously all speculation, but I think it's unfair to suggest that they have no strategy whatsoever.

*Here I assume that they are somewhat connected, but having witnessed various interactions between them I have to conceed that I think they are at LEAST friends, if not family.

Radharc na Sleibhte

Xiney wrote: »

I assume that they are somewhat connected, but having witnessed various interactions between them I have to conceed that I think they are at LEAST friends, if not family.

Oh without a doubt.

Xiney

Really though, they aren't hurting anyone. The one in front of the bank is blocking the sidewalk but it isn't so narrow that it's difficult to get around her with a pram, really. I'm more often held up by groups of dawdling children along the hyde bridge (damn kids!) than in front of the BOI because of her.

They are not aggressive, unlike the chuggers, who I suspect must go home and cry into their pillows for the loss of their souls, and they don't wander around putting flowers or stickers into your hands and then demanding payment. Also, as Sligo is a small town with few tourists and they're apt to be recognized, I think we are somewhat protected from the pickpocketing that is sometimes associated with Romani beggar women.*

*Mods, I'm trying to be as diplomatic as possible here. If this is construed as racist, I do apologize, and please remove this post. I myself was suspicious of the tales I heard, until I was in Paris and my friend and I became separated from our tour group and were surrounded by women pressing lavendar into our hands while children ran around us. We panicked a bit, and my friend had 300 euro surgically removed from her money belt which was under her shirt and over her camisole in the confusion. Thankfully, I had a lock on my daypack, with the key in my shoe (paranoid, much? probably saved my money though)

Gillie

As i know that I will not be able to control my feelings around Begging and the ppl who stop you in O'Connell Street for Charity, I will refrain from commenting!

(You can pretty much guess which side I fall on!)

il gatto

Charity collecting is leagalised begging. Harassing people in the street to pay for cancer research when our taxes should be paying for it, except the government has squandered that money and pay themselves €200,000-€300,000 a year, so we're supposed to have a guilt trip and fork out more money to ill mannered panhandlers with a reflective vest. One of them said to my fiancé "where are you going?" when she said she didn't have time to fill out her beggery sheet. Apparently she used quite an agressive tone too. She was going to work, but told her it was none of her damned business.
The very worst kind are the ones who work on a commission basis. I'd rather draw the dole than take a cut of money given to charity in good faith.
As far as the beggers go, there's no place for it in this country. There are enough charities who take up the slack of government agencies, to ensure nobody will starve to death. The law making it illegal has been struck down (http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/0315/breaking47.htm)
Specious reasoning I would have thought. Could a prositute make the same claim? They "communicate" and recieve money.

I have to wonder if causing an obstruction, aggressive behavior, or interfering with peoples cars is not reason enough for Guards to move someone along (if they gave a damn).

brianthebard

il gatto wrote: »

One of them said to my fiancé "where are you going?" when she said she didn't have time to fill out her beggery sheet. Apparently she used quite an agressive tone too. She was going to work, but told her it was none of her damned business.
The very worst kind are the ones who work on a commission basis. I'd rather draw the dole than take a cut of money given to charity in good faith.
.

I told one that I'm unemployed and can't afford to sign up to their charity (cause I am) and she asked me if I wanted a job with the company. They bus crowds of yellow jacket people around the country, paying for their digs and most other expenses (and you get paid as well). She got my number off me and she was going to pass it on to whoevers in charge but I haven't heard anything back thankfully.

dublad23

One of ye should take her space for a day or two - Wonder what she'd say!

tuppence

I have to say that this debate and the whole tone of it to me is really uncomfortable. I know I aint going to be popular for saying so but I feel it needs to be said.

There two separate issues going on here. There’s Charities using a hard sell tactic to try and get funds in. Since the lottery it’s become harder to collect funds on the ground afaik. Alot of places don’t have the capacity and mightn’t be administratively organised to manage to secure central government funding. Okay, so in many ways it turns alot of people against the charity in question by the looks of it. That needs to be taken into consideration if charities want to keep a good profile, because a lot of it now is about marketing. They may need to be more innovative about how they do it. There’s also the situation that charities have had to do stuff the state should be doing anyway. What aren’t we up in arms about that? We still voting the same policy makers back in. In the meantime the social economy need funds, why penalise it?

The other more crucial thing is how we treat the more vulnerable members of our society, and lets make it explicit how we treat our immigrant populations too (legit or not) people who are now on the verges of our society. What do we know about her? This is just one disabled older woman who is begging for money. She’s got crutches when she doesn’t have a wheelchair.
Everything else is a heap of conjecture. Leg sprawled out for attention? Do you know what its like to have arthritis for example? Who knows what other medical condition she might have? . She’s begging-but presumption is she raking it in. Does anyone know that? There are plenty of services to feed people.... Is she receiving any of them? What’s the basic you want to give someone to humanise them, (is subsidising someone’s food and board enough) She is from an ethnic minority that we have heard negative things about? We shouldn’t generalise and we need to treat people as individuals. Unless you have been down there talking to someone on their level and see how people passing them treat them you can’t believe how being ignored, being insulted through the sneers etc dehumanises people. People can backlash from that.
We know nothing really about her. Because as far I can see nobodies talked to her......:(

God forbid we would be in the same situation. Have'nt we forgotton. Many of our Brothers, cousins, and uncles were n the same boat in England. Lots of them went over there because there was nothing for them here, economic exiles, survivors of institutional abse etc. Nothing worse than been treated with suspicion, (your a terrorist), your not legit and taking our services, go back to your own country etc. Theres still too many on the streets over there. There are multiple reasons why people find themselves on the streets. Too many people growing older in squalor because they were made feel they dont belong, feel fightened to gain entitlements that are rightfully theres. And they dont know whether with all the changes they could fit in here....

We haven’t learnt much have we?

TequilaMockingBird

tuppence wrote: »

I have to say that this debate and the whole tone of it to me is really uncomfortable. I know I aint going to be popular for saying so but I feel it needs to be said.

There two separate issues going on here. There’s Charities using a hard sell tactic to try and get funds in. Since the lottery it’s become harder to collect funds on the ground afaik. Alot of places don’t have the capacity and mightn’t be administratively organised to manage to secure central government funding. Okay, so in many ways it turns alot of people against the charity in question by the looks of it. That needs to be taken into consideration if charities want to keep a good profile, because a lot of it now is about marketing. They may need to be more innovative about how they do it. There’s also the situation that charities have had to do stuff the state should be doing anyway. What aren’t we up in arms about that? We still voting the same policy makers back in. In the meantime the social economy need funds, why penalise it?

The other more crucial thing is how we treat the more vulnerable members of our society, and lets make it explicit how we treat our immigrant populations too (legit or not) people who are now on the verges of our society. What do we know about her? This is just one disabled older woman who is begging for money. She’s got crutches when she doesn’t have a wheelchair.
Everything else is a heap of conjecture. Leg sprawled out for attention? Do you know what its like to have arthritis for example? Who knows what other medical condition she might have? . She’s begging-but presumption is she raking it in. Does anyone know that? There are plenty of services to feed people.... Is she receiving any of them? What’s the basic you want to give someone to humanise them, (is subsidising someone’s food and board enough) She is from an ethnic minority that we have heard negative things about? We shouldn’t generalise and we need to treat people as individuals. Unless you have been down there talking to someone on their level and see how people passing them treat them you can’t believe how being ignored, being insulted through the sneers etc dehumanises people. People can backlash from that.
We know nothing really about her. Because as far I can see nobodies talked to her......:(

God forbid we would be in the same situation. Have'nt we forgotton. Many of our Brothers, cousins, and uncles were n the same boat in England. Lots of them went over there because there was nothing for them here, economic exiles, survivors of institutional abse etc. Nothing worse than been treated with suspicion, (your a terrorist), your not legit and taking our services, go back to your own country etc. Theres still too many on the streets over there. There are multiple reasons why people find themselves on the streets. Too many people growing older in squalor because they were made feel they dont belong, feel fightened to gain entitlements that are rightfully theres. And they dont know whether with all the changes they could fit in here....

We haven’t learnt much have we?

I see your point, but I disagree. There is no reason whatsoever that in our society an amputee needs to sit on the ground begging. I can't see how she is raking it in. I have never given her anything, nor seen anyone else do so. This woman chooses her lifestyle. How she hasn't died from the cold is a miracle.

As for the Chuggers, yes those charities need to re-think fundraising procedures. It irritates everyone. FACT. (Not really a fact as such!)

I didn't vote for this government, and had many doorstep confrontations about these, and many other issues with them. Deaf ears.

Solution? I don't know.

takola

tuppence wrote: »

The other more crucial thing is how we treat the more vulnerable members of our society, and lets make it explicit how we treat our immigrant populations too (legit or not) people who are now on the verges of our society. What do we know about her? This is just one disabled older woman who is begging for money. She’s got crutches when she doesn’t have a wheelchair.
Everything else is a heap of conjecture. Leg sprawled out for attention? Do you know what its like to have arthritis for example? Who knows what other medical condition she might have? . She’s begging-but presumption is she raking it in. Does anyone know that? There are plenty of services to feed people.... Is she receiving any of them? What’s the basic you want to give someone to humanise them, (is subsidising someone’s food and board enough) She is from an ethnic minority that we have heard negative things about? We shouldn’t generalise and we need to treat people as individuals. Unless you have been down there talking to someone on their level and see how people passing them treat them you can’t believe how being ignored, being insulted through the sneers etc dehumanises people. People can backlash from that.
We know nothing really about her. Because as far I can see nobodies talked to her......:(

I was unfortunate enough to have to live with both her and her family above me last year. What I did learn is that she is one of the cheekiest people I have ever met in my life. As are her family. They had no respect for me or my privacy. She had the cheek to think it was ok to just walk into my rooms because I didn't have the tv on (Which of course made her think I wasn't in, I can only imagine what she'd intended to do! :rolleyes:). And then pretended not to be able to speak english when I asked her what she thought she was doing? Of course when all the warnings had been given by the landlord etc I found her daughter in my kitchen about a week later. It came to a point where I actually had to lock the doors as I was leaving the room and again as I was entering the room to be sure they didn't walk in on top of me. :mad:

So I have actually based my opinion on my own experience with them.

And as for people saying she has two legs, I don't think that's true. I've only ever seen her use crouches when she's not in the wheel chair.

Madge

Tuppence, I have a few points to make.

tuppence wrote: »

The other more crucial thing is how we treat the more vulnerable members of our society, and lets make it explicit how we treat our immigrant populations too (legit or not) people who are now on the verges of our society. What do we know about her? This is just one disabled older woman who is begging for money.

How do you think people should treat these 'vulnerable members of society' then? Do you think people should give her money? How much?
IMO, to do so is just perpetuating the cycle of people begging on the streets. Is that what you want?

tuppence wrote: »

Everything else is a heap of conjecture. Leg sprawled out for attention? Do you know what its like to have arthritis for example? Who knows what other medical condition she might have? . She’s begging-but presumption is she raking it in. Does anyone know that?

I think people are basing those assumptions on their own past experiences, reliable accounts from friends family and what they have heard / read about foreigners especially the type who this thread is about. BTW, anyone can have a serious medical condition, if I did, I certainly wouldn't use it to get pity or money off people. I'd say she could be making a pretty penny out of it, yes. Otherwise she wouldn't be sitting there all the time, blocking peoples way.

tuppence wrote: »

We shouldn’t generalise and we need to treat people as individuals. Unless you have been down there talking to someone on their level and see how people passing them treat them you can’t believe how being ignored, being insulted through the sneers etc dehumanises people. People can backlash from that.We know nothing really about her. Because as far I can see nobodies talked to her......:(

The irony is if you even look at them or try to talk to them all you get back, is 'money money' with the hand out. Not even a please either. They don't know english or they pretend not to.

Sodoro

anyone familiar with the guys cleaning windshields in traffic at the top of john st??
whats their story!!!

tuppence

Madge wrote: »

Tuppence, I have a few points to make.

How do you think people should treat these 'vulnerable members of society' then? Do you think people should give her money? How much?
IMO, to do so is just perpetuating the cycle of people begging on the streets. Is that what you want?

I think people are basing those assumptions on their own past experiences, reliable accounts from friends family and what they have heard / read about foreigners especially the type who this thread is about. BTW, anyone can have a serious medical condition, if I did, I certainly wouldn't use it to get pity or money off people. I'd say she could be making a pretty penny out of it, yes. Otherwise she wouldn't be sitting there all the time, blocking peoples way.

The irony is if you even look at them or try to talk to them all you get back, is 'money money' with the hand out. Not even a please either. They don't know english or they pretend not to.

People are on the streets begging for a diverse amount of reasons, but it really wouldn’t really be a lifestyle choice. I suppose that suggests that you have your basic needs met and/or are able to meet them yourself to afford to have choices.
People can be vulnerable through mental health problems, though drug and alcohol problems, though long term unemployment, through age and physical disability. When you’re not economic productive you become more vulnerable, you are more likely to lose what accommodation you have. Sometimes it’s a question of being unable to manage your own affairs because of your health problems etc. You can even lose council accommodation for non-payment of your rent, which in alot of cases can be avoided.
What I would be advocating in sensitive service intervention coupled with an adequate income level. There is a real need for proper community health services and outreach services for people who are vulnerable to assist them, empower them back to become full members of society again in whatever capacity they can. I really thing from my experience in the most part that’s what people want.

Unfortunately, there’s too much voluntary ad hoc stuff going on out there, good in parts but patchy. The government hasn’t prioritised community and welfare services. The mental health services are a joke, addiction services as too our services for older people. Everything is focused on acute care, crisis management as opposed to intervening when you can do something. A lot of people with mental health problems and addiction problems are diagnosed first though the prison service because they have done something illegal. That’s wrong, that’s inhumane becuase I really think they could had a right to have a different sort of life if they were supported.

In the case of asylum seekers/refugees there is the case that many are barred from be part of the labour market. Board and keep is paid for at source. And as you can imagine if you have no other choices about going home and what home has to offer, begging might become an imperative rather than an option. I dug this up re asylum seekers risk to poverty. I am sure if things have changed policy wise others may let us know.
http://www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie/press05/poverty.html

Its good to keep an open mind too and challenge things even whats accepted. We all can fall in to our own traps of negative stereotyping and its all persuasive, because it can reinforced by so many. (I have had to really work on my stereotypes of for example donegal people since wee daniel but I think I am pulling through now

:D)
Whether you give people money or not is a personal choice. I do when I can. When theres nothing there for people, theres nothing there in the meantime. I don’t tend to blame the person on the street, for as I see it life has a habit of dealing a seriously bad hand to many. Yes many of us find resources and the capacity, networks and family to pull ourselves through if we get those knocks.
Some aren’t so lucky and need help to do so.

tulipandthistle

I really don't feel charitable to people who use disabilities (her outside BOI) and babies (O' Connell Street) to beg. I've had loads of experience with beggars all around Europe and it does leave a bad taste in the mouth.