Nullandvoid wrote: » If there is a God and he is forgiving then surely one can be forgiven after death for not believing. Also if someone like Jesus came into the world nowadays how many so called believers would really believe him to be who he claims to be?.. Very few I'd imagine. This I believe shows that everyone is a doubter really and those who can admit this without fear deserve respect. Its easy to say you believe when your faith is never put to the test!
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » Also Read Revelation 21vs8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death".
timetogetfit wrote: » if they are good people?
Soul Winner wrote: » Fair has nothing to do with it. God doesn't have to be fair.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » No, according to scripture I would presume that all Athiests and agnostics will end up in hell no matter how good they are. Read Isaiah 64vs6 "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away". Also Read Revelation 21vs8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death". Im sure unbelieving would cover Athiests.
Fanny Cradock wrote: » You may of course find some Christians hovering around the lunatic fringe
Akrasia wrote: » the bible also commanded people to kill rebellious sons.
kelly1 wrote: » Really? Can you provide a quote from the OT (I presume)?
Akrasia wrote: » Come on kelly, you know it, it's been posted here loads of times already. If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; ...... And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21
kelly1 wrote: » Now I need to go off and find out how stoning was justified in light of Deut 5:17 (Thou shalt not muder)!
robindch wrote: » Ask wolfsbane -- he can justify it (to himself!) with some impromptu wordplay. Out of interest, have you considered the possibility that it may not be possible to justify it? And that the text might actually be wrong here?
Soul Winner wrote: » No, because they don't believe in heaven and therefore don't believe in God.
Being good in an ethically moral sense of the word is not good enough even if you do believe in heaven.
You need faith.
There are plenty of so called religious people that are not going to heaven either. Why? Because they rely on their own works of righteousness instead of trusting in the Lord.
Only people with faith in God are going to heaven. That is the only ticket in.
timetogetfit wrote: » So let me get this straight if you dont believe in heaven or HELL but are a charity worker in a third world country and are an all round good person the same fate as sadam hussein,hitler and child abductors awaits you
Soul Winner wrote: » Fair has nothing to do with it.
God doesn't have to be fair.
In His grace He has provided the only way to eternal life and that is through His Son Jesus and if you reject that then what can God do about it?
Anyone who ends up in eternal death have chosen it for themselves by not clinging onto the promise of what God provided in the work of Jesus,
mossieh wrote: » Frankly, if heaven is going to be populated by people like Gerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggart, George W Bush, Archbishop McQuaid, Joseph Ratzinger and all those other good shepherds, I'd prefer to take my chances with the crooks. It sounds like a club you don't want to be in. On the other hand, in hell, you'd have the usual suspects, Hitler, Stalin, the Maharishi etc, who might not be the most convivial company but at least it woulldn't be boring.
kelly1 wrote: » Do you mean to say that you think Hell could be entertaining in some way? The whole point of Hell is that it's a place of punishment devoid of any sort of enjoyment or pleasure. It's amazing how many atheists say they would prefer Hell to Heaven. Talked about warped!
kelly1 wrote: » It was a genuine quesion. I wasn't aware of this passage. Now I need to go off and find out how stoning was justified in light of Deut 5:17 (Thou shalt not muder)!
Zaph wrote: » As an alternative question, and assuming heaven exists, as believers would you be disappointed if atheists went to heaven despite not believing, whereas you'd have lived a more devout life?
1stimpressions wrote: » If heaven can only be entered by those with faith it seems quite unfair no? The majority of people living i would imagine and the massive majority of human life in the past (billions upon billions) have not been taught the christianity that they can put their faith in, thus god is leaving 99.99% of his human creation without any possibility of redemption.
And the four beasts had each of them six wings about [him]; and [they were] full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." (Revelation 4:8-11)
mossieh wrote: » Ah Noel, it can hardly be warped seeing as we don't believe in either, but tell me this, what do you imagine (note I said imagine, I know you can't really know) heaven is really like? Hell has been fairly clearly defined here and elsewhere but I've yet to hear a detailed description of heaven that doesn't involve god's glory, heavenly choirs etc. It sounds like a bit like deal or no deal (another game I don't understand). The expression 'better the devil you know' comes to mind.
mossieh wrote: » And what a sickener it would be to pass on all the multifarious sinful pleasures in this life only to find out that heaven was the dullest place in the cosmos.
Akrasia wrote: » Worshipping some guy on a throne for all eternity? I'd rather not, thanks very much.
kelly1 wrote: » To the best of my knowledge the bible doesn't describe Heaven in any detail except to say that it's beyond our imagination and understanding. I believe that there is no comparison between life in a "gross" body and life as a free spirit. When we are released from our physical bodies, there will be no more need for faith. Those who die in a state of grace will sin no more. I believe life with God, face -to-face with our majestic Creator will be nothing short of absolute and total bliss. There will be no suffering and no boredom, only ever-new joy. How anyone could choose Hell over Heaven, is beyond me. The so called sinful pleasures that you refer to are like bottles of poison marked "For your enjoyment and pleasure". Heaven will never be dull because God is incapable of being dull.
Soul Winner wrote: » No, because they don't believe in heaven and therefore don't believe in God. Being good in an ethically moral sense of the word is not good enough even if you do believe in heaven. You need faith. Acting on God's promises and that is not merely believing that He exists. There are plenty of so called religious people that are not going to heaven either. Why? Because they rely on their own works of righteousness instead of trusting in the Lord. Only people with faith in God are going to heaven. That is the only ticket in.
Naikon wrote: » Sarcasm? Anyway, as an Atheist the fact that I simply cease to exist following death is comforting. Heaven as depicted by the bible sounds like "hell" to me tbh. Not that I look forward to the process of death mind you. When my brain dies I won't be able to perceive anything so heaven and hell is pretty irrelevant.*note that the above applies to all believers too regardless of their "belief" Logic > religion
Akrasia wrote: » its irrelevant to me where you think they end up. but it is highly revealing of the attitude of your religion.
