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Sligo Chamber of Commerce

starbelgrade

According to their website;

"We lobby on member's behalf on all levels, relevant to member's individual or collective needs in 'helping Sligo grow'.

Sligo Chamber of Commerce & Industry was founded on 21st September 1923 with the purpose of developing existing business and attracting industry to Sligo."

Now, the Chamber is made up of local Businessmen, who elect a President to promote these goals. But when you see them involved heavily in objections to new businesses & to the location of such, surely this is a HUGE conflict of interest?

Their project lists include;

"The Chamber Retail Project Team (which) represents the retail community at large, lobbying on their behalf on all issues concerning the retailers of Sligo town and County."

Some of the MAJORLY IMPORTANT Annual and on-going activities and events that this project team manage, promote and organise are as follows:

"Christmas Lights & Christmas Festival, Santa Claus etc.·
Sligo Shopping Spree
Flower Window Box's etc."

"The Chamber's eBusiness Project Team was set up in September 2000 to take responsibility for the vast area of eBusiness with the ever-increasing importance of technology in business life. The Project Team's membership include representation from members companies including all aspects of the IT world, hardware / software engineers, service providers, training facilitators, website design through to the telecommunication companies themselves. "

Try googling any shop in Sligo town & see how far they've got there.

Is it just me or is the Chamber an irrelevant waste of time, money & resources? Does it actually "help Sligo grow" or does it stunt the growth? Would Sligo benefit more from a Chamber of Shoppers? A group that promotes the interests & needs of purchasers.

Personally, I find local retailing here rather pathetic. I travel to Dublin / Galway / Belfast to buy most of my clothes as there's no selection here. I buy my CDs online coz the record shops here are vastly over-priced & don't sell what I want to buy. I get any musical equipment I need shipped from Germany for the same reason.

Whenever I can, I buy local... but I'm constantly disgusted by the likes of Centra who should but constantly fail to sell locally produced produce. There's a Centra near Magherabouy - about 10mins from Woodville Farm, yet they don't stock their eggs. All their meats (sausages & eggs) come from the likes of Denny & not the local farms, and none of their breads are locally produced. And try getting a fresh head of lettuce in there any time of the year & see what happens. It's as limp as the policies of the Chamber of Commerce.

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TequilaMockingBird

I know where you can get a locally sourced Can of Worms...

tuppence

I dunno does the Chamber get a centralised grant for its existence or is it self financed? If it a case that its holding up progress in relation to an city/town plan development as it seems to be happening in the wine street scenario, can they then not be penalised finicially? Is it not partially true that people were promised (and are getting fed up waiting for) shopping within the town centre thats theres now as a knock on effect a more pressing want/need to grant shops outside town boundaries by the local shopper.

starbelgrade

I dunno where the funding comes from - certainly partly from members anyway. There's no info on any of their websites regarding this. Either way, they shouldn't be allowed to interfere in planning / government policies - they've far too much of a vested interest.

As for increasing retailing in the centre - that's all well & good, but it shouldn't prevent expansion outside the town. There's no good reason why Argos couln't have set up or indeed a large supermarket that'd be easy for people to reach and park at. Anywhere off the new M4 stretch would be perfect.

Try doing a weekly shop in Tesco on a Saturday afternoon... I did once - it took me 45mins to get from the Strandhill Road to Wine St car park.. another 30 mins to find a parking spot, then the same amount of time getting out of the car park & getting home. It would literally have been quicker for me to take the back roads out to the M4 & drive to Tescos in Carrick-on-Shannon and back again.

Through a combination of bad planning by the Roads Dept, bad planning by the Planning Dept & interference by the Chambers, the town is unworkable for anyone living outside of it.

Then there's also the disgraceful practice of "contributions" from developers. This is a planning issue I know, but it basically allows developers from bailing out of planning policy obligations such as minimum parking requirements & provisions of Public Open Space, by paying "contributions" to the Council (essentially, they are over the counter backhanders). An example is the The Glasshouse... when it was completed, the number of parking spaces provided for the hotel & yet to be completed apartments, fell short of the number of spaces applied for & granted by the council. The developers simply paid a fixed amount per space not provided & that was that. The money paid is supposed to be used by the council to provide parking elsewhere, but that's never gonna happen. The fact that the car park in The Glasshouse is now being used as a public car park is beyond me.

muffler

starbelgrade, could you please stay on topic. The thread is titled "Sligo Chamber of Commerce" and your last paragraph (while containing good points) is way off the mark. By all means start a new thread about planning or the lack of.

Now Im leaving this to Basquille as to whether he wishes to remove any of the content of your last post. You are relatively new here so the probation act will probably be given

starbelgrade

It's not totally off topic - one of the "functions" of the Retail Project Team of Chambers of Commerce is to lobby for the provision of adequate car parking facilities in Sligo. As part of the apartment block, there are retail units being provided for on the Ground Floor and even when the original application went in, there were insufficient spaces provided for under the Council's Development Plan. There were no objections or observations submitted on this matter to the Council by the Chamber of Commerce. If they were that interested in persuing their own policies, they would have done so.

tuppence

The town may also be unworkable because of a lack of imagination re public accessible transport, lanes, park and ride schemes, and train service that was so corroded we now are happy to get any type service from Sligo to Dublin. (no commuting to town early in the morning for work, use the car).
So if I dont have a car, what do we do when the outskirts starts getting developed? Have we got so attached our cars we presume we all have one.
No one lobby group should dictate the develepment of town be it shop keepers or come to think of it car drivers. isnt it about planning for all.
The council needs to clean up it act re developers obligations of the car parking situ. The same is happening about social housing units. That is a travesty.:(

tuppence

Whoops sorry Muffler and basquille. I have gone O.T. too.:o

starbelgrade

tuppence wrote: »

Whoops sorry Muffler and basquille. I have gone O.T. too.:o

One of the problems is, that the development of the town, in terms of planning policies & the lobbying from the Chambers, are inextricably linked. Unfortunate, not only coz it's mixing what should be two separate issues on the forum, but also in real life!

(Though the Social Housing comment IS off topic!)

muffler

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's not totally off topic - one of the "functions" of the Retail Project Team of Chambers of Commerce is to lobby for the provision of adequate car parking facilities in Sligo. As part of the apartment block, there are retail units being provided for on the Ground Floor and even when the original application went in, there were insufficient spaces provided for under the Council's Development Plan. There were no objections or observations submitted on this matter to the Council by the Chamber of Commerce. If they were that interested in persuing their own policies, they would have done so.

Listen (and its something you dont appear to be doing) quit while you're ahead.

You do realise that I am a moderator here and if I ask you to stay on topic then I mean it. As I said you are relatively new but if you wish I can lock this now and save us all a whole heap of trouble. Your choice.

muffler

starbelgrade wrote: »

(Though the Social Housing comment IS off topic!)

We will determine whats off topic.

starbelgrade

muffler wrote: »

Listen (and its something you dont appear to be doing) quit while you're ahead.

You do realise that I am a moderator here and if I ask you to stay on topic then I mean it. As I said you are relatively new but if you wish I can lock this now and save us all a whole heap of trouble. Your choice.

I was just arguing my point - one which I thought was very relevant to the discussion, but as you said, I'm new to the forum & therefor new to the "rules", so I'll do as you say.

muffler

starbelgrade wrote: »

I was just arguing my point - one which I thought was very relevant to the discussion, but as you said, I'm new to the forum & therefor new to the "rules", so I'll do as you say.

Its not so much as "do as I say" but more along the lines of "listen to and heed what any mod tells you" in any forum.

In a topic like this I have found from past experience that it can end up going all over the place - sometimes it will drag itself back round and sometimes we end up discussing the price of tea in China. God knows I have been guilty myself in the past of going off topic and I still have the marks where I was hit with the ban stick by mods in other fora

Anyhow just try to stick to the thread title and I dont have a problem with you or anyone starting multiple threads about planning issues for example. There is a fine line sometimes between commercial retailing/development and planning and as I am involved in planning I can see where the thread is likely to end up and thats why I want this thread kept between the hedges as they say.

starbelgrade

muffler wrote: »

Its not so much as "do as I say" but more along the lines of "listen to and heed what any mod tells you" in any forum.

In a topic like this I have found from past experience that it can end up going all over the place - sometimes it will drag itself back round and sometimes we end up discussing the price of tea in China. God knows I have been guilty myself in the past of going off topic and I still have the marks where I was hit with the ban stick by mods in other fora

Anyhow just try to stick to the thread title and I dont have a problem with you or anyone starting multiple threads about planning issues for example. There is a fine line sometimes between commercial retailing/development and planning and as I am involved in planning I can see where the thread is likely to end up and thats why I want this thread kept between the hedges as they say.

I get your point.. I also PM-ed you before (& after) discovering the forum charter, so it's all cool with me. Cheers!

Gillie

starbelgrade wrote: »

Whenever I can, I buy local... but I'm constantly disgusted by the likes of Centra who should but constantly fail to sell locally produced produce. There's a Centra near Magherabouy - about 10mins from Woodville Farm, yet they don't stock their eggs. All their meats (sausages & eggs) come from the likes of Denny & not the local farms, and none of their breads are locally produced. And try getting a fresh head of lettuce in there any time of the year & see what happens. It's as limp as the policies of the Chamber of Commerce.

Centra is the best shop in Sligo.
I take your point regarding the woodville farm produce but why don't you point it out to them???
Apart from the parking there it is a fantastic shop. Staff there are unbelievably helpful and often drive the elderly home with their shopping etc..

In my opinion the chamber stand for protectionism. They want Sligo to remain in the Dark ages.

They still live in a time where they controlled what came into Sligo in terms of Clothing and they controlled the price too.

starbelgrade

I have nothing personal against Centra per se - Yes, their staff are friendly & extremely helpful - I picked them as a random case in point; my point being that if the Chamber of Commerce were REALLY active & interested in helping "Sligo grow", they would be pushing local businesses to buy & supply local produce.

Culchie

Chamber of Commerce has forwarded me referrals/business, even to people outside the immediate area of Sligo. I think they're doing an OK job, and I think it is well worth my subscription fee.

The parking issue is listed as their No1 task for 2008.....I think your aim should be aimed at the local authorities on that subject.

I'm not a huge retail shopper of clothes/dvd's etc (must be getting on:o)......but after moving down from Dublin having lived there for 10 years, I haven't found shopping in Sligo that bad.....it has most of the 'brand' shops now does it not? (Next, TK Maxx, Virgin, Oasis etc....)

However a 'Chamber of Shoppers' is also a good idea.

starbelgrade

Culchie wrote: »

Chamber of Commerce has forwarded me referrals/business, even to people outside the immediate area of Sligo. I think they're doing an OK job, and I think it is well worth my subscription fee.

The parking issue is listed as their No1 task for 2008.....I think your aim should be aimed at the local authorities on that subject.

I'm not a huge retail shopper of clothes/dvd's etc (must be getting on:o)......but after moving down from Dublin having lived there for 10 years, I haven't found shopping in Sligo that bad.....it has most of the 'brand' shops now does it not? (Next, TK Maxx, Virgin, Oasis etc....)

However a 'Chamber of Shoppers' is also a good idea.

According to their website,

"The Chamber's eBusiness Project Team was set up in September 2000 to take responsibility for the vast area of eBusiness with the ever-increasing importance of technology in business life.”

It also states that amongst it’s priorities are to

“Monitor the presentation, quality and content of the Chamber's website and make recommendations for areas of improvement• Identify case studies which members can easily relate to and associate with their own business practices• The encouragement of local business agencies to promote trading via e-Commerce to the general public through special offers, competitions etc•”

Now, if I try to find any information at all on the internet about local businesses, the results are virtually zero. Apart from hotels, which could obviously not function without a web presence, there is little or no websites for any of the restaurants, shops, cafes or lesuire activity businesses in Sligo.

On a search through the Chamber’s website, I searched for local businesses listed under the categorys of restaurants, clothing & electrical. Only one business had a link to a website, McDonaghs Electrical. It is not even a proper link – the address has to be copied & pasted into the browser bar & when it is… the site link does not work – presumably the site is no longer in operation.

If the Chamber's eBusiness Project Team was "set up in September 2000 to take responsibility for the vast area of eBusiness with the ever-increasing importance of technology in business life," it appears to have taken 7 years to achieve virtually nothing in this area.

As for parking - I don't wanna start going off topic by mentioning the local authorities (again!), but I know exactly what you mean!

And in terms of the range of shops in Sligo - no, I don't think it's that great... it's certainly better for women than men, but still not that good... there's not even 1 decent shoe shop for men - I get mine on line from Schuch (who have a very convenient "return within 365 days if not satisfied" policy). I'm not saying that this is the fault of the Chambers, but they have interfered when other shops have tried to set up in Sligo, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is a factor which businesses consider when deciding where to locate. I certainly wouldn't bother starting a business where I'm not welcomed by the bodies who were set up to allegedly to help "Sligo Grow in a positive and constructive manner towards a city where one can enjoy the ultimate shopping experience."

I don't expect Sligo to be as varied as Dublin or Galway - it is after all a smaller town - but I would expect the Chambers to do what they set out to do in terms of their policies & not the complete opposite (as in the case of Argos).

TequilaMockingBird

I was doing a course in the IT a few years ago (Retail Management), and I needed some information from the Chamber of Commerce. The website didn't have any information I needed, so I though I would call in to the offices. They didn't even have their address on the website! I gave up and got it elswhere.

I had a shop in town for two years, I never once had any dealings with them.

tuppence

Apparently, The Chambers put in a submission to the Sligo and Environs Plan to prioritise parking. (according to this weeks The Sligo Champion) Maybe it is time that they use their lobbying weight constructively.
Wonder what they mean about the ebusiness then. They probably got a piecemeal grant. Perhaps its all about capacity on the ground. Wonder how many staff they have to support those busineses or is it all on a voluntary capacity?

starbelgrade

One of the reasons I started this thread was to see if anyone had, like yourself, any personal dealings or experiences with the Chambers. The information on their website is very general & uninformative and I've written to them to ask about the points I've raised here, but haven't received any reply.

starbelgrade

From the Sligo Weekender website;

"Tracing origins of Argos story

The seeds of the Argos saga were sown three years ago when consultation began on the Sligo and Environs Development Plan.

Business interests in Sligo town, backed by a number of councillors, campaigned to prevent out of town shopping developments from selling certain types of goods.

However, the origins of the current scandal can be traced back to April of 2004 when Carraroe Retail Park developers Newbay Doherty first submitted an application for Homebase.

Here’s how the last 17 months have flown: 16/4/04: Newbay Doherty submit application on behalf of Homebase calling for alterations to their unit

17/5/04: Richard Lyons and Sligo Chamber of Commerce make observations on the changes.

10/6/04: Sligo County Council grants permission for the alterations and add in the conditions of planning that the unit “shall not principally be used for the sale of comparison goods”.

7/7/04: Richard Lyons appeals the conditions of the Homebase application to An Bord Pleanala claiming they are against the guidelines of the Sligo and Environs Development Plan. Sligo Chamber of Commerce submit an observation to Mr Lyons’ appeal, giving it their support.

26/10/04: An Bord Pleanala upholds the planning permission but re-words the conditions to the approval of Mr Lyons who has already experienced a considerable backlash against his objection.

26/5/05: Richard Lyons is the only member of the Sligo Chamber of Commerce Council not to get re-elected to the council.

31/5/05: Argos submit an application for alterations to their warehouse unit and permission to sell comparison as well as bulky goods to Sligo County Council. 7/4/05: Sligo Chamber of Commerce object to Argos’ application claiming it goes against the guidelines of the Sligo and Environs Development Plan.

15/7/05: Sligo County Council grant Argos planning permission for alterations their warehouse unit and gives them permission to sell their full catalogue of goods, comparison and bulky.

9/8/05: Sligo Chamber of Commerce appeal Sligo County Council’s decision to An Bord Pleanala claiming that it goes against the guidelines of the Sligo and Environs Development Plan.

19/8/05: Developer Seamus O’Dowd commissions a poll on the Argos issue. An overwhelming majority want Argos in Sligo and the majority of those want them located in Carraroe.

13/9/05: Argos issues a statement saying they will pull out of their proposals to set up a store in Sligo unless Sligo Chamber of Commerce withdraw their An Bord Pleanala appeal immediately.

15/9/05: Members of Sligo Chamber of Commerce council and Argos meet in private in Sligo to discuss the impasse. A two line statement issued by both parties indicate that the meeting was positive and open and that another meeting in the near future is planned. 16/9/05: The Sligo Weekender goes out onto the streets to get the reaction of the general public to the Argos/Chamber impasse. The results do not make good reading for Sligo Chamber of Commerce, with the vast majority wanting Argos to be located in Carraroe Retail Park. "

starbelgrade

tuppence wrote: »

Apparently, The Chambers put in a submission to the Sligo and Environs Plan to prioritise parking. (according to this weeks The Sligo Champion) Maybe it is time that they use their lobbying weight constructively.
Wonder what they mean about the ebusiness then. They probably got a piecemeal grant. Perhaps its all about capacity on the ground. Wonder how many staff they have to support those busineses or is it all on a voluntary capacity?

It certainly makes for a more constructive use of time than lobbying against Argos & Homebase!

As for the eBusiness - they have a 10 person committee (incl. the chairperson), though I'm not sure what capacity they work to. Surely though - if it is one of their main projects & objectives - you'd think that it would be possible for at least one of their members to have set up even the most basic of websites over a 7 year period?

They must be still reading the "HTML for Dummies" book.

starbelgrade

According to Chambers.ie, RTE is a corporate patron of Chambers Ireland. Nice to know that our license fees are being put to good use.

Culchie

starbelgrade wrote: »

One of the reasons I started this thread was to see if anyone had, like yourself, any personal dealings or experiences with the Chambers. The information on their website is very general & uninformative and I've written to them to ask about the points I've raised here, but haven't received any reply.

Some of your points I agree with, but I don't think it's the chambers job to get Businesses to develop their own e-business plans and spoonfeed people.
I certainly don't expect it anyway.

Lobby for a broadband infrastructure, have trainers available.... yes certainly they should.

I agree that their website is pretty bad as well, I think that's being revamped at the moment.

As I say, any dealings I've had with the chamber, I've always received a reply, and they've referred me a fair bit of business for which I'm grateful as well.....then again I'm only up and running for a year, so maybe their present committee/personnel are better than their predecessors .... and hence may explain the difference in opinion we're having?

starbelgrade

Culchie wrote: »

Some of your points I agree with, but I don't think it's the chambers job to get Businesses to develop their own e-business plans and spoonfeed people.
I certainly don't expect it anyway.

Lobby for a broadband infrastructure, have trainers available.... yes certainly they should.

I agree that their website is pretty bad as well, I think that's being revamped at the moment.

As I say, any dealings I've had with the chamber, I've always received a reply, and they've referred me a fair bit of business for which I'm grateful as well.....then again I'm only up and running for a year, so maybe their present committee/personnel are better than their predecessors .... and hence may explain the difference in opinion we're having?

Well, I've read their policies & seen what they've done in certain areas, and it really doesn't tally up in a lot of places. Some, maybe, but certainly not all.