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BBC on mass immigration to Ireland - we have messed it up basically

darkman2

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/news/worldtonight/ram/worldtonight_immigration_20071204.ram

How much longer will it be, I wonder, before we wake up one morning and collectively realise that we have destroyed the social cohesion of this country? We have seen what has happened in the UK but more particularly the race riots in France. We are going the exact same direction only faster then they did. The ghettoes are there - and new ones are springing up all over the place. Balbriggan will surely go down as the first immigrant town in Ireland. An 'all black' school? FFS have we apartheid
going on now!? Someone has screwed up big time. Its alright for the Middle class areas in Dublin. They have rarely seen this yet. They will. Note on that link - the mention of the faltering economy at the end - we have big problems coming.

We need much tougher immigration and social policy and we need it now. We need a sense of direction. In the end the 'opportunities' are gone. We screwed up when we should have learned from the failures in France and the UK. What makes it worse is we had the benefit of hindsight but were too feeble to plan immigration and integration properly. Imagine any woman that had a child here could automatically be Irish only 4 or 5 years ago!? It was long before that IMO we should have got our act together.

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super_furry

"Ah sure it'll never happen to us. If we ignore it, it'll just go away."

The alarming thing is the lack of will to even debate the issue on any level for fear of being labelled as racist.

PHB

Yep, that's why our economies are suffering and the economies which wouldn't let immigrants in are doing great .... oh wait

Wertz

Stable doors can't save us now.
If we hadn't have been so busy hanging onto the UK's policy coat tails back when all this began, we might have been able to get a handle on it. We swapped short term gain, in terms of a low cost labour force, increased rental incomes for long term loss, cost of schooling, cost of the coming social welfare demand and who knows what else.
I'm sure the liberal brigade will be along in a moment to decry what is staring us all in the face and accuse people of being wannabe stormfronters, and that's fine....they'll reap what's been sown along with the rest of us.

EKRIUQ

super_furry wrote: »

The alarming thing is the lack of will to even debate the issue on any level for fear of being labelled as racist.

Too true, and the writing was on the wall 10 years ago with the bogus asylum seekers (90%) and any one in the next posts with a strong point of view will be called a racist!!

dlofnep

Thanks - listening to it now.

PDN

darkman2 wrote: »

How much longer will it be, I wonder, before we wake up one morning and collectively realise that we have destroyed the social cohesion of this country?

Social cohesion? As when we were all poor, ignorant and dominated by the Catholic Church - but we stuck together by reminding each other how we hated the British?

Thank God this country has changed from the cultural, intellectual and economic backwater it used to be.

MIN2511

darkman2 wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/news/worldtonight/ram/worldtonight_immigration_20071204.ram

How much longer will it be, I wonder, before we wake up one morning and collectively realise that we have destroyed the social cohesion of this country? We have seen what has happened in the UK but more particularly the race riots in France. We are going the exact same direction only faster then they did. The ghettoes are there - and new ones are springing up all over the place. Balbriggan will surely go down as the first immigrant town in Ireland. An 'all black' school? FFS have we apartheid
going on now!? Someone has screwed up big time. Its alright for the Middle class areas in Dublin. They have rarely seen this yet. They will. Note on that link - the mention of the faltering economy at the end - we have big problems coming.

We need much tougher immigration and social policy and we need it now. We need a sense of direction. In the end the 'opportunities' are gone. We screwed up when we should have learned from the failures in France and the UK. What makes it worse is we had the benefit of hindsight but were too feeble to plan immigration and integration properly. Imagine any woman that had a child here could automatically be Irish only 4 or 5 years ago!? It was long before that IMO we should have got our act together.

While i understand that you want to preserve the Irish values, you have to understand that with success comes a price. Ireland wouldn't be the way it is now if it wasn't for the Celtic boom, unfortunately it also comes with problems. Immigration cannot be tackled in one day, one month or a year. It has to be planned, for Ireland’s continuous success ye have to understand the need for more immigrants.
I came here 6 years ago, as a student still an international student btw. I hope to get a work permit next year; i actually love Dublin and consider my self a dub.
But i also understand how ye would feel about bunch of f***** immigrants are taking away everything... sorry is all i can say:)

Flex

PDN wrote: »

Social cohesion? As when we were all poor, ignorant and dominated by the Catholic Church - but we stuck together by reminding each other how we hated the British?

Thank God this country has changed from the cultural, intellectual and economic backwater it used to be.

:rolleyes:

dlofnep

Did anyone listen to that one at around the 5 minute mark? She was a disgrace to the people of Ireland. There are certain ways to address things.. Her scanger accent didn't help her case either.

Wertz

lol
"I wasn't racist until they all came here"

Scanger accent or not, she's entitled to her POV. Besides the intended audience for that show wouldn't be much able to tell what or where her accent was....the fact that you passed remark on it perhaps shows an intolerance to certain social classes in this country....much like her intolerance to immigrants no?

Well balanced article I thought.

Dyr

PDN wrote: »

Social cohesion? As when we were all poor, ignorant and dominated by the Catholic Church - but we stuck together by reminding each other how we hated the British?
.

reading angelas ashes again? :rolleyes:

look, its just the way of the right thinking people who run this place that they have to ape whatever it is the brits and europeans were doing ten years after they did it. must keep up with the jones' even when the jones realise it was balls up

dlofnep

Wertz wrote: »

Scanger accent or not, she's entitled to her POV. Besides the intended audience for that show wouldn't be much able to tell what or where her accent was....the fact that you passed remark on it perhaps shows an intolerance to certain social classes in this country....much like her intolerance to immigrants no?

I'm not intolerant to anyone. I was highlighting that they tried to find the most ignorant and awful sounding person on the street to argue the case against immigration. I'm sure they went around to dozens of people, but opted to use the one who had the most dramatic things to say.

Bob in Belfast

super_furry wrote: »

"Ah sure it'll never happen to us. If we ignore it, it'll just go away."

The alarming thing is the lack of will to even debate the issue on any level for fear of being labelled as racist.

RACIST:)

PHB wrote: »

Yep, that's why our economies are suffering and the economies which wouldn't let immigrants in are doing great .... oh wait

:rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

Yes because the British historically have an excellent record on deciding what is best for Ireland:rolleyes:

Conor108

ronoc wrote: »

Yes because the British historically have an excellent record on deciding what is best for Ireland:rolleyes:

ZING!:D

Supercell

I think it would be a bit rich for Ireland to outright ban immigration from certain places given our history since the famine years, however I think as a small country we need to have some sense of scale as to what we can sustainably cope with, we clearly cannot cope structurewise with the amounts coming in recently- witness the "white flight" from some areas of west and north Dublin (surely the ghettos of the future).

I'd be in favour of some kind of points based scheme that attracts the best and brightest to here and maybe a some kind of diversity lottery like the yanks have to bring others that have no obvious benifit to us (in terms of skills in an area there is a shortage of here) but nevertheless will enhance us culturally.

The_Conductor

Longfield wrote:

I think it would be a bit rich for Ireland to outright ban immigration from certain places given our history since the famine years.

I disagree. Its not that long ago that I was refused a summer job in Germany, by a well known multinational, on the basis that they did not want Turks or Irish. Similarly- I have been delibertly tripped up in the street and robbed, just for being white. You cannot have an open door policy from anywhere whatsoever. Certainly- you can bring in your points based scheme- akin to what they have in Australia or New Zealand- but it is naive in the extreme to think that even with this that its being racist to not insist on implementing quarantines and medical examines for people from certain countries or regions. If you think this is racist- think about Ellis Island- where the Irish used be quarantined before they were allowed to disembark at New York, along with the detention ships off Darwin etc.

We cannot blame immigrants for our floundering health system- however we insist on implementing measures to try and safeguard the health of the general populace (I'm thinking multiple resistant TB and other diseases such as Polio that we once had wiped out- but are increasingly making a reappearance in certain communities).

Re: Immigrants and bizzarely high numbers of road deaths- whacking up road signs in Russian, Polish, Latvian and god only knows what other languages- is an exercise in futility. Its the exact same thing as happens in Spain- our Irish consulate there repatriates very high numbers of road fatalities (over 1 a week) back to Ireland. People when away from home do take chances that they would not necessarily take in their own countries. This can only be addressed by delibertly targetting the at-risk groups. However everyone is so scared of being tarred as racist- that blabbering about warning signs in multiple languages is all that comes about. I don't read Russian- if a large sign in high-illumination painted Russian stares at me over a hedge in Co. Meath its a distraction I can certainly do without.

I don't see that there is a right and a wrong here- and I also do not see that we owe anyone anything. We were not well treated anywhere after the famine years- and if you think we were, you are looking through rose coloured lenses. We were the navies that built much of Britain, including its undergrounds and its railways. We were the underclass only good for manual labour- if at all, in the States. Our only friends were those who were also staunch Catholics- the Poles, the Italians the Spaniards- we stood together in our faith, and nothing else.

Times do change........

Giblet

Next person to post rolleyes as the only response gets banned. If you can't make a point, don't post.

Supercell

smccarrick, I'm not entirely sure of the point you are making?
Either you are for some immigration restriction or not, your post is a bit unclear?

I don't think banning people from one place or another is the right approach, but I do think we need to make sure the people we are inviting to our shores are a benefit to our country rather than burden.

I certainly agree that if these people come from areas with higher levels of some diseases than here than health screening should be necessary for our own citizens safety.

mike65

Fupps sake this is the same as the last hundred threads Darkman2 started on this topic

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=503074

Mike.

darkman2

Kevin Myers brings it up in the Irish Times every day - I dont see you having a go at him;) Besides I have not started 100 threads on immigration anyway.

Its a serious issue though and probrably the most serious and difficult one we have to try and address now, not later. On a previous point - what I meant by 'social cohesion' being put at risk is that our communities in the Republic have generally got along very well with a couple of bumps in the road. We dont have mass riots between different groups and we generally are a happy and content little nation - seemingly always even when we were dirt poor! We still are but for how long can we sustain it with these numbers of immigrants relative to our size? Like I say look at France and the UK.

mike65

Republic have generally got along very well with a couple of bumps in the road. We dont have mass riots between different groups and we generally are a happy and content little nation - seemingly always even when we were dirt poor

Apathy!

Mike.

0ubliette

PDN wrote: »

Thank God this country has changed from the cultural, intellectual and economic backwater it used to be.

James Joyce, Oscar Wilde, Patrick Kavanagh, Francis Bacon et al all say hello. We may have been poor back i nthe day, but cultural and intellectual backwater we certainly were ****ing not. Think before you post in future, thanks.

Can anyone give a breakdown of what the bbc show says? I dont listen to podcasts as i find i have better things to do with my time, like poking dog **** with a stick.

Terry

:rolleyes:

Serously though, we have messed up.
We allowed hundreds of thousands of people come here unchecked.
We don't have the infrastructure to accomodate them and this is going to lead to ghettoism.

I've said this many times here and people have accused me of over-reacting. Give it time and then come back and suck my balls, bcause I will be proven right.

Integration is the only way forward.

Edit: I meant to quote Giblet there for teh funneh.
Fúck it. I'm off to the pub.

mike65

James Joyce, Oscar Wilde, Patrick Kavanagh, Francis Bacon et al all say hello. We may have been poor back i nthe day, but cultural and intellectual backwater we certainly were ****ing not. Think before you post in future, thanks.

And they left or rather had to leave as did so many of Irelands best writers. Why? cos they were under the cosh of the crosier.

Mike.

Bob in Belfast

mike65 wrote: »

And they left or rather had to leave as did so many of Irelands best writers. Why? cos they were under the cosh of the crosier.

Mike.

Patrick Kavanagh never left Ireland.

mike65

He did but came back after London did'nt work out for him. Anyway you know the point I'm making - the Irish branch of the Catholic Church was so civilised it drove out the creative for generations. Still, it gave those who left a greater fame and acclaim than if they had stayed.

Mike.

herbieflowers

true and all those writers' works were indelibly Irish...it provided the perfect inspiration, haha!

PDN

darkman2 wrote: »

Its a serious issue though and probrably the most serious and difficult one we have to try and address now, not later. On a previous point - what I meant by 'social cohesion' being put at risk is that our communities in the Republic have generally got along very well with a couple of bumps in the road. We dont have mass riots between different groups and we generally are a happy and content little nation - seemingly always even when we were dirt poor! We still are but for how long can we sustain it with these numbers of immigrants relative to our size? Like I say look at France and the UK.

The lack of mass riots does not make cohesion. Religious minorities were treated like second class citizens and were too powerless to do anything about it (a legacy of this still remains in the Catholic domination of education).

We were not happy and content. Millions of us had to leave our little country to find jobs.

Dyr

mike65 wrote: »

He did but came back after London did'nt work out for him. Anyway you know the point I'm making - the Irish branch of the Catholic Church was so civilised it drove out the creative for generations. Still, it gave those who left a greater fame and acclaim than if they had stayed.

Mike.

you're saying the catholic church ran joyce, kavanagh, bacon, wilde etc out of ireland? Any proof of that handy?