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Child Item

Am I the only one who thinks this......

EoimarMuppet

This romantic idea so many pedalling of the fella who cuts the pitch, the woman who sells lotto tickets, the volunteers doing the line at the junior B games etc......so may people are giving it all this in order to say no to the grants....sure if Alan Brogan gets it then Seanin Og from Tulla who makes the sangwiches for the under 12's should too etc etc...........
WHAT A LOAD OF PISH!! Every single sport in the world has amateur grass roots...everyone of them. Jesus us GAA folk dont half love to tell everyone how bloody great we are dont we. Get off the high horse lads. Those lads are more than entitled to every penny they get, If Cian O Connor, some random plodder of a sprinter and some feicin horse are entitled to it, then by God, so is Marc O'Se !!!Funny how no one raises a word about Micko and many other managers being on the payroll or various county boards isnt it.......................

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thirtyfoot

LiamWalkinstown wrote: »

. Those lads are more than entitled to every penny they get, If Cian O Connor, some random plodder of a sprinter and some feicin horse are entitled to it, then by God, so is Marc O'Se !!!

Not the best of examples to use I'm afraid, comparing a good GAA player to someone with potential to be an Olympic champion, they are miles apart I'm afraid and to argue that they are not is nonsense and shows an hilarious lack of understanding of what it takes to be an *******n or even better, a contender at an olympics.

No random plodder of sprinters get grants, in fact no random plodder of any olympic sport gets a grant. The criteria to get an ISC grant is unbelievably tough and if you manage to get a decent grant as a sprinter it means you are probably in the top 16 in the world, a world which includes many men or women who come from nations or backgrounds that are historically and genetically more advanced from a sprinting perspective. Grants that the olympic athletes get are in most cases to provide a living as being full-time athletes they cannot afford to have a job and compete with the worlds elite and so must spend most of their time overseas either training or competing. Would you be able to survive on 16,000 euros a year, training 8-10 times a week and beg, borrowing and stealing from anyone who'll listen just so you can represent your country on the world stage and fulfill your potential? Don't think so mate, back to the SAQ ladders and laps of the pitch!

I agree GAA players should get financial recognition but belittling world class athletes with sh*te like above only feeds the "their only a shower of sloggers and muckers" that many of the elite geniune world class athletes or pro Rugby or footballers might have - don't share that opinion myself.

Agree with you on the horses getting so much from the budget though.

aidan24326

Tingle wrote: »

I agree GAA players should get financial recognition but belittling world class athletes with sh*te like above only feeds the "their only a shower of sloggers and muckers" that many of the elite geniune world class athletes or pro Rugby or footballers might have - don't share that opinion myself.

World class athletes? Just how many of those do we have in this country? I can't think of too many. I think the point is that the GAA county players would be begrudged a small few quid even though they're the stars of the most high-profile sports in the country.

holymolyHS

Agreed. Not every person that currently receives a grant is a 'world class athlete' nor do they train every day or not have a job. I'm not belittling people that are in the scenario that Tingle describes, this is the case for a number of athletes and its because of their lack of funding and resources that we don't have world class athletes. The sports council of ireland seriously struggles in comparison budget wise in comparison to that of other countries.

But the principle here is that the sports grant the GPA are looking for is not an amount that you could live/survive on nor should it be.

Back to Liams original point, I would have to agree about some people waxing lyrical about the man that chopped down the tree to make the goal posts or how if old Cathleen wasn't there to make the half time tea we'd never win a match!! Its not that I don't understand nor do I not appreciate the grassroots of the GAA but lets compare like with like. The difference between a club player and a county player is the argument that is far more relevant.

Waylander

To my knowledge we dont have any world class athletes Tingle, and your post shows an hilarious lack of understanding of what it takes to be an inter county GAA player. They train as hard as professional athletes, yet most of them do it around full time employment as well.

monosharp

The GAA is an amateur association, this "grant" scheme is bringing the short end of the wedge of professionalism and elitism and will destroy the GAA as we know it.

I'm not going to argue points because I'm sick of dealing with this subject.

I will say however that the majority of people I've spoken to with your opinion don't follow their own club. Instead the "county" is their club.

This is not what the GAA is about, its not what it was founded for and you are throwing it all away if you agree with it.

First the players get a grant, now the GAA are asking us to pay to watch the games if Setanta get their way. How long do you think it'll be before Dessie and that <snip> guy from Cork will be whining that 2,000 (approx) a player isn't nearly enough ?

patmac

I would be one of those people involved with a club giving up my spare time to run the Lotto etc, our club works hard in raising monies every year to make sure our players are training in the best conditions possible, food is provided after every training session, everything is done voluntary, the work of the people involved in the grassroots of our club is staggering and all done for the love of the game.I have reservations of the whole pay for play situation, I think the money should be used to benefit ALL players, ensuring adequate insurance schemes, training facilities, covering players expenses for travelling etc.
If you piiss off the so called Grassroots of the game then the whole thing implodes no-one volunteers for anything, soccer, rugby etc wins out and the GAA as we know it is finished, remember if it ain't broke don't fix it. If you think this is an antiquated view of GAA life and that we are not moving with the times Liam then fair enough, but remember the 'Grassroots' is the lifeblood of the GAA mock them and ignore them at your peril.

JMULL

Totally agree with original poster. One of the main voices against it in Mayo works for local radio station nearly every weekend. He obvioulsy has no problem getting paid for talking about McDonald, Brady etc playing football as long as they are not getting paid for playing it.

future_plans

I agree with the OP also. I am actively involed in the local club at underage level but I don't expect any financial reward. The only reward I get is the satisfaction of seeing the happiness of the kids and watching and helping the young players progress up the ranks. However, knowing the effort and time senior players put into their playing careers, I would no begrudge them this small grant. It is not a huge amount of money after all. I understand that this is a significacnt change in the amateur ethos by accepting this, however, the GAA has to progress to compete with the other professional sports. The possiblity of even playing professional rugby at home now is a huge draw for young players. Obviously the GAA has to make some changes in it's approach and of course, change is not easy in the GAA.

An Citeog

future_plans wrote: »

I agree with the OP also. I am actively involed in the local club at underage level but I don't expect any financial reward. The only reward I get is the satisfaction of seeing the happiness of the kids and watching and helping the young players progress up the ranks. However, knowing the effort and time senior players put into their playing careers, I would no begrudge them this small grant. It is not a huge amount of money after all. I understand that this is a significacnt change in the amateur ethos by accepting this, however, the GAA has to progress to compete with the other professional sports. The possiblity of even playing professional rugby at home now is a huge draw for young players. Obviously the GAA has to make some changes in it's approach and of course, change is not easy in the GAA.

So you think we should try and bribe the players to stop them from becoming professional players at another sport. €2000 a year or whatever they're getting isn't going to hav an effect on this. It's not the money that attracts most of the players to sports like Aussie Rules. It's the opportunity to be a professional sportsman. The GAA can't and should never offer that. It's the whole normal people doing extraordinary things that's the life-blood of the GAA. There are a few intercounty lads at my club but that doesn't make them extra special. They're normal everyday guys, who excel at their chosen sport.

It's a shame that we lose players like Martin Clarke, Pearse Hanley etc to Aussie Rules but government grants aren't going to deter the next batch. It'll just lead to an elitist attitude, from and towards the players and is something I would never like to see in the GAA.

Lastly, why does an intercounty hurler with the likes of Donegal deserve a grant, while some of the country's elite club players with Ballyhale Shamrocks, Portumna, Birr etc who aren't on the county panel deserve nothing? Should it only be the men who get grants? This opens up a whole can of worms and nobody knows where it's going to end. Share it out among the club sides and everyone gets a slice of the pie. All 300,000 playing members in the GAA are involved with a club and only 3,000 of these represent their counties.

squire1

All the indications are that this is not going to get past Central Council tomorrow anyway so it looks like the GPA are going to be put on the spot. They will have to now decide if they are actually prepared to go on strike (rather than just threatening to). The time will come when the will have to either "sh1t or get off the pot". If they do decide to go on strike it will be very interesting to see what actual support they are getting from the players. i.e. will the players really withdraw their services?

Dangerous times ahead for the whole of the GAA, not just Paddy that takes the money at the gate to pay the referee or the county star that makes the odd appearance for his club when the county manager gives him permission.

thirtyfoot

Waylander wrote: »

To my knowledge we dont have any world class athletes Tingle, and your post shows an hilarious lack of understanding of what it takes to be an inter county GAA player. They train as hard as professional athletes, yet most of them do it around full time employment as well.

Training part-time will never get someone to a level that a full-time athlete is at, in the vast majority of cases its not possible. It doesn't matter how many sand dunes you run up, or ice baths you take, if you aren't full-time you will struggle to maximise your physical ability. Its eating, sleeping, training. You can't do this if you are part-time.

To say we have no world class athletes is hilarious - O' Rourke, Gillick, Hession, O' Keefe, Heffernan in track and field, several very good boxers and our rowers are definitely world class. Your standards are very high, you must get very dissillushioned watching overweight, soft, under developed athletes strutting their stuff on GAA pitches each summer if they are this high.

Relax, I'm not slagging GAA players. I think for part-time athletes they are great and deserve their grant even though initially I was sceptical. I'm responding to the original poster slagging "randon plodders" picking up a grant like its the dole. I'd expect to hear that sh*te from a guy at the back of the church on a sunday who cleans his ears with his car keys. Bit of respect, GAA players and the ISC grant athletes are two very different animals operating in two very different worlds, both deserving of their grants.

kevmy

An Citeog wrote: »

Lastly, why does an intercounty hurler with the likes of Donegal deserve a grant, while some of the country's elite club players with Ballyhale Shamrocks, Portumna, Birr etc who aren't on the county panel deserve nothing? Should it only be the men who get grants? This opens up a whole can of worms and nobody knows where it's going to end. Share it out among the club sides and everyone gets a slice of the pie. All 300,000 playing members in the GAA are involved with a club and only 3,000 of these represent their counties.

An intercounty hurler from Donegal won't be gettin the grants. Only the 12 teams in the race for Liam will be gettin grants along with the top 12 football teams that year. More money will go into a kind of GAA player fund thing.

Also this thin end of the wedge/slippery slope stuff is only bunkum. There is one reason above any other why the GAA won't go professional and thats because it couldn't sustain itself. There is not enough money in the GAA for all intercounty players to be either pro or semi-pro as well as the GAA doing what it has been doing for years (i.e. providing local clubs with money, upkeep of grounds, insurance money for players, paying for intercounty teams training and paying it's employees). Unless Ireland experiences as massive population boom and the number of clubs stays the same or get smaller then it just won't happen

The Chessplayer

The dissenters should be completely ignored, just like Dessie Farrell said. I'll tell you one thing - the GAA would be a hundred times better off if these preaching evangelists left the association altogether and took up cricket instead. It's embarrassing that these imbeciles are given a forum on the national stage. The whole GAA hierarchy is a shambles - with their congress meetings about this, that and the other.

Dessie Farrell & Kieran McGeeney for joint presidents of the GAA as soon as that awful thick Nicky Brennan steps down.

squire1

kevmy wrote: »

An intercounty hurler from Donegal won't be gettin the grants. Only the 12 teams in the race for Liam will be gettin grants along with the top 12 football teams that year. More money will go into a kind of GAA player fund thing.

That is the first I have heard of that. I understood that all intercounty players would be eligable for the grant ranging from €1600 to €2400 depending on the teams performance.

Surely the hurler from Donegal puts in the same amount of training and travelleing as his counterpart in Kilkenny, no?

It seems to go against the whole ethos of the GPA to only reward the players from the top teams in this way.

I for one, would no longer approve of the grant system if this is the way it is going to be run. It has to be equitable or else it is a load of sh1t.

An Citeog

kevmy wrote: »

An intercounty hurler from Donegal won't be gettin the grants. Only the 12 teams in the race for Liam will be gettin grants along with the top 12 football teams that year. More money will go into a kind of GAA player fund thing.

Also this thin end of the wedge/slippery slope stuff is only bunkum. There is one reason above any other why the GAA won't go professional and thats because it couldn't sustain itself. There is not enough money in the GAA for all intercounty players to be either pro or semi-pro as well as the GAA doing what it has been doing for years (i.e. providing local clubs with money, upkeep of grounds, insurance money for players, paying for intercounty teams training and paying it's employees). Unless Ireland experiences as massive population boom and the number of clubs stays the same or get smaller then it just won't happen

My understanding of it was that all intercounty players would get an initial grant and this would be topped up, depending on how far the player's county went in the All Ireland. If it's just a grant for the elite counties, this brings the whole issue of transfers etc into play.

I agree that full or even semi-professionalism would be completely unsustainable but player (read GPA) greed could have a huge effect on the availability of funds throughout the whole organisation. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

The Chessplayer wrote: »

The dissenters should be completely ignored, just like Dessie Farrell said. I'll tell you one thing - the GAA would be a hundred times better off if these preaching evangelists left the association altogether and took up cricket instead. It's embarrassing that these imbeciles are given a forum on the national stage. The whole GAA hierarchy is a shambles - with their congress meetings about this, that and the other.

Dessie Farrell & Kieran McGeeney for joint presidents of the GAA as soon as that awful thick Nicky Brennan steps down.

What a great idea! :rolleyes: Disband the GAA and replace it with the GPA. It's only existed for over 120 years. The GPA really have the best interests of the GAA at heart!

The GPA is a self-serving machine with absolutely no interest in the majority of players and members of the GAA. There's a reason why motions are brought before central council. It's that stupid little thing called democracy and is designed to represent the interests of all members from the 32 counties of Ireland. It's not perfect, mainly due to the state of most county boards in Ireland, but is far better than giving dictator Dessie free reign.

holymolyHS

No disrespect An Citeog but why there is such an uprising over the awards of between €1400 and €2600 for all inter-county players is hard to stomach. Central Council gave the go ahead for negotiations last April when it was known that the grant scheme and the actual figures were already in mind.
Why everyone is up in arms about it now is quite silly from my perspective. If people had such a problem with it back then then why was the opposition not voiced there and then?

An Citeog

holymolyHS wrote: »

No disrespect An Citeog but why there is such an uprising over the awards of between €1400 and €2600 for all inter-county players is hard to stomach. Central Council gave the go ahead for negotiations last April when it was known that the grant scheme and the actual figures were already in mind.
Why everyone is up in arms about it now is quite silly from my perspective. If people had such a problem with it back then then why was the opposition not voiced there and then?

I don't think people (myself included) gave it that much thought back then. The media didn't really latch onto it either. It's the threathened strike action that really incensed me and got me weighing up the pros and cons. And imho, there are far more cons than pros to this.

holymolyHS

To be fair, I think once the media did latch onto it, it got completely out of control. We now have constant mud slinging going on on both sides and a lot of things being blown out of proportion. I don't think the GPA needed to strike, thought that it was over the top myself but the fact remains that had they not gone on strike the issue would not have been addressed even though promises had been made that it would at congress in April.
But look, this isn't the first clusterf**k of a situation that the GAA could have dealt with that bit better. Regardless of the GPA, there definitely seems to be a gap growing between Croke Park and the rest of the GAA which for me is more worrying than grants and the rest.
We still have mass brawls at club matches (sure we just had one the other night in Monaghan), referees being intimidated and attacked, a massive grey area over the interpretation / enforcement of rules/discipline - I'm still trying to get my head around the guy getting off a 2 month ban because the referee didn't record his name in irish!! I was actually hoping for our own problems to be cleaned up before another can of worms like the grants was opened.

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG

The Chessplayer

An Citeog wrote: »

What a great idea! :rolleyes: Disband the GAA and replace it with the GPA. It's only existed for over 120 years. The GPA really have the best interests of the GAA at heart!

The GPA is a self-serving machine with absolutely no interest in the majority of players and members of the GAA. There's a reason why motions are brought before central council. It's that stupid little thing called democracy and is designed to represent the interests of all members from the 32 counties of Ireland. It's not perfect, mainly due to the state of most county boards in Ireland, but is far better than giving dictator Dessie free reign.

The GAA are a bunch of w@nkers, and there's a sizeable minority of gaa supporters, like myself, who can't stand these old w@ankers in "central council". At least "dictator dessie", as you call him, is not afraid to call it like it is. The type of democracy that exists in the gaa is the most inefficient embarrassing system in the known world.

Waylander

Tingle wrote: »

Training part-time will never get someone to a level that a full-time athlete is at, in the vast majority of cases its not possible. It doesn't matter how many sand dunes you run up, or ice baths you take, if you aren't full-time you will struggle to maximise your physical ability. Its eating, sleeping, training. You can't do this if you are part-time.

To say we have no world class athletes is hilarious - O' Rourke, Gillick, Hession, O' Keefe, Heffernan in track and field, several very good boxers and our rowers are definitely world class. Your standards are very high, you must get very dissillushioned watching overweight, soft, under developed athletes strutting their stuff on GAA pitches each summer if they are this high.

Relax, I'm not slagging GAA players. I think for part-time athletes they are great and deserve their grant even though initially I was sceptical. I'm responding to the original poster slagging "randon plodders" picking up a grant like its the dole. I'd expect to hear that sh*te from a guy at the back of the church on a sunday who cleans his ears with his car keys. Bit of respect, GAA players and the ISC grant athletes are two very different animals operating in two very different worlds, both deserving of their grants.

Fair enough on the rowers, I think we are fairly competitive there, and psooibly the boxing, although Bernard Dune, our greatest boxer was totally outclassed in his last fight. My definition for World Class, would be as the title suggests, someone who is at the forefront of their sport internationally, and we simply dont have that. We rarely get medals in track and field evets at Olympics or World Championships so I do not see how you can maintain that we have many world class athletes, it is an expression that is bandied around far too generously to my mind. I do respect these athletes, but I think the inter county GAA players are at least as dedicated, possibly moreso as they hold down full time jobs on top of their schedule. Also I think you are underestimating the fitness of the GAA players, read up on the Clare team that won two All Irelands in the 90's to see just how hard these guys train.

I actually do not really know where I stand on the whole pay for players thing, I just thought your first post was very dismissive of what I regard as the extraordinary demands and sacrifices inter county players make. By the way, tell Dara O se that he is a "overweight, soft, under developed athlete", or Ciaran Whelan, or Ciaran Mc Geeney.... I think you will find they strongly disagree. To say you are not slagging GAA players after that statement is a bit of a contradiction.

An Citeog

The Chessplayer wrote: »

The GAA are a bunch of w@nkers, and there's a sizeable minority of gaa supporters, like myself, who can't stand these old w@ankers in "central council". At least "dictator dessie", as you call him, is not afraid to call it like it is. The type of democracy that exists in the gaa is the most inefficient embarrassing system in the known world.

Are you involved with a GAA club or is it just the county team you feel an affinity for?

Dessie Farrell is great if you're one of the 1% of GAA players who plays for their county. If you belong to the other 99% though, he couldn't give a flying fúck about you! The current structure of the GAA is far from ideal, or at least the personnel are. That all stems from inefficieny and downright incompetence at county board level, but that's a completely different matter.

monosharp

The Chessplayer wrote: »

The GAA are a bunch of w@nkers, and there's a sizeable minority of gaa supporters, like myself, who can't stand these old w@ankers in "central council". At least "dictator dessie", as you call him, is not afraid to call it like it is. The type of democracy that exists in the gaa is the most inefficient embarrassing system in the known world.

The GAA is us, we are the GAA. The GAA is not like the FAI or the IRFU, the GAA is a democratic organisation and these meetings for central council etc are for US to descide what happens to OUR organisation.

Dessie Farrell, Donal Og and the GPA are a cancer. They are not democratic and have no respect for democracy whatsoever. They are a facist party.

holymolyHS

"Dessie Farrell, Donal Og and the GPA are a cancer. They are not democratic and have no respect for democracy whatsoever. They are a facist party."

Your basing that on what exactly?

smashey

The Chessplayer wrote: »

The GAA are a bunch of w@nkers, and there's a sizeable minority of gaa supporters, like myself, who can't stand these old w@ankers in "central council". At least "dictator dessie", as you call him, is not afraid to call it like it is. The type of democracy that exists in the gaa is the most inefficient embarrassing system in the known world.

monosharp wrote: »

The GAA is us, we are the GAA. The GAA is not like the FAI or the IRFU, the GAA is a democratic organisation and these meetings for central council etc are for US to descide what happens to OUR organisation.

Dessie Farrell, Donal Og and the GPA are a cancer. They are not democratic and have no respect for democracy whatsoever. They are a facist party.

Guys, take a chill pill.

patmac

One of our players was badly injured in a club championship match last October, it looked deliberate(not relevant), his ankle is fractured, he works in the construction industry, has been unable to work since and will be unavailable to work well into the new year, despite having a good insurance scheme, no recompense has been offered this side of Xmas, this is the sort of thing that needs to be sorted out if the GPA have the welfare of players in mind.

premierstone

patmac wrote: »

One of our players was badly injured in a club championship match last October, it looked deliberate(not relevant), his ankle is fractured, he works in the construction industry, has been unable to work since and will be unavailable to work well into the new year, despite having a good insurance scheme, no recompense has been offered this side of Xmas, this is the sort of thing that needs to be sorted out if the GPA have the welfare of players in mind.

i think you've hit the nail on the head here and tbh i think you'll find that unless the player is an intercounty player who will afford Dessie Farrell and co the media attention that he craves then the GPA dont give a rats ar*e about issues like this

holymolyHS

premierstone wrote: »

i think you've hit the nail on the head here and tbh i think you'll find that unless the player is an intercounty player who will afford Dessie Farrell and co the media attention that he craves then the GPA dont give a rats ar*e about issues like this

And what are the GAA going to do for this player? Its because of incidents like this that the GPA came into existence. Just ask Richie Kealy what help he got off the GAA for a similar issue. Thanks to the GPA he got some form of compensation.
No harm for this guy to give the GPA a call and see if they can do anything for him

premierstone

holymolyHS wrote: »

And what are the GAA going to do for this player? Its because of incidents like this that the GPA came into existence. Just ask Richie Kealy what help he got off the GAA for a similar issue. Thanks to the GPA he got some form of compensation.
No harm for this guy to give the GPA a call and see if they can do anything for him

That may have been the original intention but they have seriously strayed from this in recent times and their sole intention at the moment seems to be how many times they can get dessie on tv;)

holymolyHS

premierstone wrote: »

That may have been the original intention but they have seriously strayed from this in recent times and their sole intention at the moment seems to be how many times they can get dessie on tv;)

How have they strayed from this? This idea that they've kicked player welfare issues away and are now on some quest to squeeze the life blood out of the GAA is getting stupid.

patmac

holymolyHS wrote: »

And what are the GAA going to do for this player? Its because of incidents like this that the GPA came into existence. Just ask Richie Kealy what help he got off the GAA for a similar issue. Thanks to the GPA he got some form of compensation.
No harm for this guy to give the GPA a call and see if they can do anything for him

If he hasn't already called them I will get him to do so.