Garda Reserve Experiences

Hahahha Yeah was on last night and they were calling me Garda Reserve, I sent them straight lmao.
Yeah defo going have booked the day after off work, was in a heap after the last one. Did you get the letter left in the station for ya?

Dee5 wrote: »

Ooooh Geo get you lol

Ha! thought that would make you chuckle Dee lol

You still goin on the night out?, was out for a pint with J. the other night, said he was goin to go. Lookin forward to it now.

Ooooh Geo get you lol

star gazer wrote: »

Not particularly, but i'm curious to see how it developes and am interested in how people posting here get on with the whole process of becoming a Garda Reserve.

Just for the record, its Reserve Garda, rather than Garda Reserve

freddiew

cushtac wrote: »

The Garda Reserve is the best trained force in Europe???

Out of context, I said "I would have no doubt they are here to stay and all that I am learning at present they are the best trained force in Europe and Professional."

cushtac

freddiew wrote: »

I am learning at present they are the best trained force in Europe and Professional.

The Garda Reserve is the best trained force in Europe???

star gazer

Not particularly, but i'm curious to see how it developes and am interested in how people posting here get on with the whole process of becoming a Garda Reserve.

freddiew

star gazer wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that the Reserve has had a slow but steady start? The poll question: is it here to stay?

Yes, it would be fair to say they had a slow start just like anything else that's new when introduced first. Of course the Reserves are here to stay, they are recruiting and advertising like mad and they are so successful in other countries. Also the Commissioner may announce shortly Powers to the Reserves under the Public Order Act. I would have no doubt they are here to stay and all that I am learning at present they are the best trained force in Europe and Professional.
Are you thinking of joining?

star gazer

Would it be fair to say that the Reserve has had a slow but steady start? The poll question: is it here to stay?

metman

Benny,

I agree that many complaints have their origin in PO arrests, mostly to do with the level of force used in bringing the suspect in, however in 4 years I've never had a complaint arising out of a PO nicking. However, as a force the GR shouldn't wrap its people in cotton wool or how will they ever be treated as competent useful officers by their regular counterparts. If you look at the general opinion held by officers here towards PCSOs (non-warranted uniformed civvies) you'll see what I'm on about. Similarly the force must conduct its duties without fear or favour....that includes fear of complaint. There's no reason why GR personnel, with adequate training, could not conduct duties in support of regular officers with full powers to deal with public order problems or any other problems.

Over here the public order act is one of the most useful and versatile pieces of legislation and it would be a major headache if I had to conduct my duties without it. However, it is indeed early days for the GR, and the Garda as a whole is undergoing massive change, so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

Benny Kerry

metman wrote: »

Interesting thread. I'm a Dub serving in the Met Police in London. Its interesting to see the GR experiencing the same problems the special constabulary had here once upon a time.

What I do find hard to believe is that you have no powers to deal with public order. This is bread and butter policing, surely the powers that be realise this?

Specials here have the same powers on and off-duty as regular officers and I've worked with some good specials. So long as the recruitment standards are kept high, which isn't always the case in some forces in the UK, I don't see a problem with volunteers helping out, especially on weekend nights when, no matter where you police, you'll be rolling around with some drunken idiot, at some point during the shift.

Good luck to those about to go out on the streets. Listen to your colleagues, watch their back during stops and on calls, be careful when sticking your hands into people's pockets, and above all else stay safe.

Hi Metman,

I agree that the PO stuff is basic but then again it has the greatest potential to go pear shaped v quickly. Plus it's the area that generates the most complaints.

Therefore experience will assist in this regard. When we have seen and assisted a few times, then maybe. There is a new man coming in at Commissioner - be interesting to see what happens...........

In the meantime, as some of the others say, baby steps & stay safe out there. Object of the exercise is to come home in the same condition that you went out in?

metman wrote: »

Interesting thread. I'm a Dub serving in the Met Police in London. Its interesting to see the GR experiencing the same problems the special constabulary had here once upon a time.

What I do find hard to believe is that you have no powers to deal with public order. This is bread and butter policing, surely the powers that be realise this?

Specials here have the same powers on and off-duty as regular officers and I've worked with some good specials. So long as the recruitment standards are kept high, which isn't always the case in some forces in the UK, I don't see a problem with volunteers helping out, especially on weekend nights when, no matter where you police, you'll be rolling around with some drunken idiot, at some point during the shift.

Good luck to those about to go out on the streets. Listen to your colleagues, watch their back during stops and on calls, be careful when sticking your hands into people's pockets, and above all else stay safe.

Fair play metman,

Have a mate in the Met, and he loves it. Thanks for the vote of confidence, as with all new things, things will take time to develop.

metman

Interesting thread. I'm a Dub serving in the Met Police in London. Its interesting to see the GR experiencing the same problems the special constabulary had here once upon a time.

What I do find hard to believe is that you have no powers to deal with public order. This is bread and butter policing, surely the powers that be realise this?

Specials here have the same powers on and off-duty as regular officers and I've worked with some good specials. So long as the recruitment standards are kept high, which isn't always the case in some forces in the UK, I don't see a problem with volunteers helping out, especially on weekend nights when, no matter where you police, you'll be rolling around with some drunken idiot, at some point during the shift.

Good luck to those about to go out on the streets. Listen to your colleagues, watch their back during stops and on calls, be careful when sticking your hands into people's pockets, and above all else stay safe.

pat1187

Fatted, Question,
Am I,as a reserve, covered by insurance to drive a vehicle belonging to someone arrested for driving under the influence? Leaving the car where it was stropped was not an option.

Also, am I the only one who has trouble submitting a reply to this board?
I don't know if my security is set too high?

colliegG wrote: »

Ok one last question Fatted and more just for my own education than anything else. Probably miles off topic anyway. Sparkie saw a lad been punched in the face. Well if that guy had a preconsisting condition and the punch caused him to collapse and hemorrhage on the street. The whole eggshell skull rule, does that suddenly allow the person who threw the punch to be arrested? If it was obvious that there had been a serious assault. I've studied some civil law but no criminal. Not even the basics so I don't have a clue but I'm just wondering would the onus be on the reserve to show that he thought he was acting in the assaulted persons interest?

See the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997. There are several levels of assault:
Assault
Assault causing Harm
Assault causing Serious Harm

The last 2 are arrestable offences. You can't just pick a charge that suits you, you must be able to justify it. If you punch someone and his head splits open its probably no longer simple Assault. Its up to the member to decide what you're arresting someone for, but it must be legal and you must have the power to do so!

Hey Dee. Are you attested?

Ok one last question Fatted and more just for my own education than anything else. Probably miles off topic anyway. Sparkie saw a lad been punched in the face. Well if that guy had a preconsisting condition and the punch caused him to collapse and hemorrhage on the street. The whole eggshell skull rule, does that suddenly allow the person who threw the punch to be arrested? If it was obvious that there had been a serious assault. I've studied some civil law but no criminal. Not even the basics so I don't have a clue but I'm just wondering would the onus be on the reserve to show that he thought he was acting in the assaulted persons interest?

No it won't get you five years. Store detective's would use citizen's arrest as the person has just stolen something. If you wereto say to a shoplifter, "hang on there til I get the gards" the shoplifter would be off like a light!
Therefore CA can be used as the person would be trying to escape arrest.

Sorry for writing more or less the same post twice it didn't look like I pressed submit on the first post

No it won't get you five years! But they are using citizen's arrest in the sense that the person is making off without paying forthe goods. If you said to a shop lifter wait there till the gards come sure they'd be off like a shot! Therefore they can use citizen's arrest until the Gards arrive.

colliegG wrote: »

But he could detain someone? It's just I wouldn't think shop lifting would get you five years!

Theft carries a penalty up to 10 years in prison (Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001), which makes it an arrestable offence, which means a store detective could arrest someone under section 4 of the Criminal Law Act.

But he could detain someone? It's just I wouldn't think shop lifting would get you five years!

colliegG wrote: »

What power does a store detective have to detain someone or are they allowed any more?

A store detective has no special powers. He would make use of the same section 4 Criminal Law 1997 as any other person c/would.

It seems ridiculous that you can't restrain someone who is causing a real danger to other people. Completely seriously, are you supposed to allow someone to kick the hell out of another person while you watch, whether or not you're a reserve or a private citizen? I can understand the "legal ramifications" of aiding someone but I still think ignoring it is wrong. What Sparkie did seems more like the moral decision even if it's not exactly "proper"! Of course I still have to pass my medical before it becomes an issue for me anyway!!

Dee5 wrote: »

An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may only be effected by a person under subsection

While on duty a garda reserve has the same powers as a full member of the Gardai! (but see below!) So subsections 4 and 5 of section 4 don't apply. You can't analyse bits of sections without reading the whole section.

Section 15 of the Garda Síochána Act 2005:

(3) Subject to subsection (5), a reserve member has, while on duty, the same powers, immunities, privileges and duties as a person appointed under section 14 to the rank of garda.
...
(5) The Garda Commissioner may determine the range of powers to be exercised and duties to be carried out by reserve members.

Its subsection 5 that limits our powers as per the garda reserve handbook.

I'd have to buy the books first fatted! Honestly I pretty much just googled citizens arrest. Thats why I said other people would be better placed to interpret it. What power does a store detective have to detain someone or are they allowed any more?

Sparkie saya that this person was causing a threat to others He was not trying not to be arrested. “(4) An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may only be effected by a person under subsection (1) or (2) where he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána.

So not too sure how it would go?
The only other way for Reserve arrest is if the penalty for the action is 5 years or more etc

colliegG wrote: »

This is from the Criminal Law Bill 1996.

Do you mean the Criminal Law Act 1997? What you've quoted is a subsection of Section 4. The important part of section 4 is this:

4.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be in the act of committing an arrestable offence.

N.B. Arrestable Offence!, this has a very definite meaning.

Section 2 of the same act:

"arrestable offence" means an offence for which a person of full capacity and not previously convicted may, under or by virtue of any enactment, be punished by imprisonment for a term of five years or by a more severe penalty and includes an attempt to commit any such offence.

Assault is not an arrestable offence.

It might be time for some of you's to brush off the dust on some of the law books...

fatted wrote: »

Yes, you arrested him. What do you think putting someone in handcuffs is called? Arrest = curtailing someone's freedom. Legal Arrest = Arresting someone for an offence and having the power to do so! You can't just grab / handcuff / lock up people because _you_ think its the right thing to do. It must be _legal_!
The garda reserve been told explicitly that we do not have powers under the public order or offences against the person act.
What you might have done is arrested him for a breach of the peace. Which is a common law power. But you'd have to decide if that was appropriate.
The garda reserve handbook was passed out in Templemore (still in draft mode). You should also have had to sign for the final version, either from your sergeant or inspector who handles the Garda Reserve in your station/devision.

This is from the Criminal Law Bill 1996. As far as I can make out any citizen, whether dressed as a Garda Reserve or in civilian clothes has the power to arrest a person if:

“(4) An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may only be effected by a person under subsection (1) or (2) where he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána.

(5) A person who is arrested pursuant to this section by a person other than a member of the Garda Síochána shall be transferred into the custody of the Garda Síochána as soon as practicable.”

This deals with citizens arrest but I'm sure other people would have a more definite knowlege of whether it applies in Sparkies case.

69sparkie69 wrote: »

:cool: hi geo.. thanks for the advice,etc,etc..but i never arrested him..by putting him into handcuffes for my own,my partners and the other prisioner`s and general`s public safety,as well as his own safety..as he was up for takin on the world..etc..anyway..it`s all blown over,as the assaulted person,is not pressing charges,and everything is dropped..with the exception off that he(ie.prisioner)will be charged with section 4 public order...
I never,nore the class i was in ,never received any booklet,about our powers..do we have full road traffic act powers,section 49,69,etc or just section 91 and 107..??? so where did you get that booklet from ..??

Yes, you arrested him. What do you think putting someone in handcuffs is called? Arrest = curtailing someone's freedom. Legal Arrest = Arresting someone for an offence and having the power to do so! You can't just grab / handcuff / lock up people because _you_ think its the right thing to do. It must be _legal_!
The garda reserve been told explicitly that we do not have powers under the public order or offences against the person act.
What you might have done is arrested him for a breach of the peace. Which is a common law power. But you'd have to decide if that was appropriate.
The garda reserve handbook was passed out in Templemore (still in draft mode). You should also have had to sign for the final version, either from your sergeant or inspector who handles the Garda Reserve in your station/devision.