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Lazy Teachers

dame

Hi folks,

What do you think of the fact that teachers are entitled to a week off for their wedding? I'm not joking, if a teacher gets married during the school year they are entitled to the week off, paid. Is this not taking the piss?

Also, I know of a teacher who took a week off to get laser eye treatment. Shouldn't she just have done this during the summer, or the Halloween week off, or waited until the three weeks off at Christmas, or even the Easter holidays??? (Some) Teachers are the laziest people in Ireland! They seem to have the weakest work ethic and strongest sense of entitlement I have ever come across outside of an umemployed person who has no intention of looking for work, ever.

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dame

janeybabe26 wrote: »

Oh right, well I don't feel a sense of entitlement. Do any other teachers?

You feel entitled to your holidays and feel sorry for teachers who aren't permanent and have to work in supermarkets or wherever during the summer.

Toto Wolfcastle

dame wrote: »

It's not the holidays that are the bone of contention folks, it's the teacher's sense of entitlement.

Oh right, well I don't feel a sense of entitlement. Do any other teachers?

randylonghorn

dame wrote: »

Ask any teacher (who has been qualified a few years) if you can see their lesson plans and they won't have many recent ones (or any at all) to show you.

Many experienced teachers won't necessarily need formal written lesson plans ... they would prefer, quite rightly, to spend the time preparing teaching aids / handouts / posters (depending on age of students) or marking homework etc. than writing down lists of things which come as naturally to them as you drive a car.

dame wrote: »

Primary teachers very very rarely spend time in the evenings marking work.

Rubbish, tbh. My mother usually spent 2-3 hours an evening marking homework. She taught 4th, 5th and 6th, and usually had at least 30 pupils between the 3 classes ... one year she had 38.

Terry wrote: »

Teachers deserve the time off.

I was a complete prick in school. Looking back, I wouldn't inflict the 14 year old me on my worst enemy. There were quite a few like me too and that was in a small (at the time) school.

Picture having to put up with a bunch of obnoxious teenagers every day or think back to your own school days.
Now imagine yourself on the other side of the desk having to put up with all those dicks in your class.

Unfortunately, such self-awareness is scarce, Terry ... wp!

dame wrote: »

Nah, I had far too many leaving cert points to be a teacher!

If you are assuming that no-one with excellent LC results goes on to teach, again, you would be very very wrong. Your statement does say much about your sub-concious (or conscious) attitute and assumptions about teaching and teachers, however.

dame wrote: »

If you choose to though you shouldn't complain about it.

Firstly, you started this thread to complain about them, not the other way around. Apart from that, however, you are of course right ... teachers should be the only people in the world not allowed to complain about their job from time to time.

There are of course good and bad teachers, the dedicated and the lazy as hell. Many good teachers have left over the last couple of years. Why? Children who are impossible to deal with, unsocialised and undisciplined by their parents. Parents who are impossible to deal with!! Parents who are living nightmares, tbh!

And the more this becomes the reality, the more the standard of teachers WILL decline ... as the idealistic, dedicated ones give up, and the time servers who enjoy their long holidays and do as little as possible during the year stick in there!

dame

It's not the holidays that are the bone of contention folks, it's the teacher's sense of entitlement.

rainbowtrout

dame wrote: »

I'll bet that at least 95% of them were at least mildly, if not wildly, exaggerating. Was the principal or vice-principal present by any chance? Sounds like they were all jumping on the band-wagon and making sure everyone knew how dedicated they are.

Not really, our exams run right up until the day we break up at Christmas otherwise our students would be off working in the local supermarket instead of in school, we could have them in early December and turn a blind eye to skiving but we don't. We have to have our results in when we go back in January so that does involve corrections during the holidays. Schools now get subject inspections in some area at least once a year which involves lots of paperwork - including lesson plans and schemes of work. my school had one last week.

And to add to what janeybabe26 said about facilities. The last school I taught in had a 'lab' with no gas, running water or electricity, the only electrical item that worked was the light in the ceiling... I used kitchen knives and sheets of cardboard for a dissecting kit and had students fill coke bottles with water from the sinks in the toilets to clean up afterwards...but you make do and get on with it.

It's really the lack of facilities for students (and teachers) that should be the bone of contention, not the holidays.

YeatsCounty

dame wrote: »

Nah, I had far too many leaving cert points to be a teacher!

Arrogance....lovely. :rolleyes:

dame wrote: »

Besides, as others have pointed out, why would you want to put up with teenagers every day? If you choose to though you shouldn't complain about it.

Because there are some teachers who are idealistic (perhaps foolishly so considering the way the attitudes of most people in the western world are these days) and they want to help have a positive effect on the minds on this country's future.

As for your second 'point', I choose to work in IT. I have complained about aspects of my past jobs, tools I've worked with, etc. I choose that path and I damn well will complain about it if I find just cause to do so. Becoming a teacher does not mean that they lose their rights to complain about issues just because they choose that career path or because they're seen as having a cushy job.

I'd like to see how you would have turned out without teachers. Did you teach yourself to read or write? Didn't think so.

Toto Wolfcastle

dame wrote: »

I'll bet that at least 95% of them were at least mildly, if not wildly, exaggerating. Was the principal or vice-principal present by any chance? Sounds like they were all jumping on the band-wagon and making sure everyone knew how dedicated they are.

Nope, they were just warning us Dips that it's not as easy as people say it is. Neither the principal nor the vice-principal were present. (Now they're dedicated. The principal had health problems and stayed at work as long as possible before finally leaving the day before her surgery.)

You can say whatever you like about what you think it sounds like. This was not the first time I'd heard this.

By any chance did you have a bad experience in school? Or do you have anything positive to say about teachers? (A lot of whom, as mentioned above, are not permanent and have to work during the summer.)

dame

janeybabe26 wrote: »

Funnily enough, the teachers in the school I teach in were having a conversation about the holidays they get the other day. They said that they spend most of their time off either correcting exams (Christmas time), preparing lesson plans and schemes of work (it takes most of the summer to devise a plan for the whole year, and then on a day-to-day basis they have to correct homework and exams, prepare handouts, etc.

I'll bet that at least 95% of them were at least mildly, if not wildly, exaggerating. Was the principal or vice-principal present by any chance? Sounds like they were all jumping on the band-wagon and making sure everyone knew how dedicated they are.

rainbowtrout

dame wrote: »

Agreed, there are people everywhere who take the piss. That is a fact. Two/three weeks is a short time to fit an elective surgery and a holiday into, 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 months on the other hand......

We're obviously not going to agree on this, but it's not as clearcut as you make out, as I already said, not everyone is permanent, therefore not everyone gets paid for the summer, a number of my friends end up having to work the summer either supervising/correcting exams in June/July and job hunting in August or doing summer work in bars/restaurants/county council to make ends meet and hope a contract comes up in another school. granted, plenty are getting paid for the summer, but not everyone has that luxury and lots spend their summer working

Of course most of your colleagues were working this evening...it's the school show and none of them will want to be seen as the one who didn't contribute!

that's a very cynical attitude to take, people who don't want to help just don't help, but most will give some of their time.

Toto Wolfcastle

Funnily enough, the teachers in the school I teach in were having a conversation about the holidays they get the other day. They said that they spend most of their time off either correcting exams (Christmas time), preparing lesson plans and schemes of work (it takes most of the summer to devise a plan for the whole year, and then on a day-to-day basis they have to correct homework and exams, prepare handouts, etc.

I'm in my Dip year and I'm busy all the time. I know it will get easier next year, but not by much. It's not an easy job. A lot of people, parents included, complain about teachers getting so much time off, but what do you want to happen? Do you want the teachers to go into school during the holidays and just sit there? Or do you want the students to get less holidays just so the teachers get less holidays?

As regards Parent/Teacher meetings, I think that a few years ago the DES decided that they could be held from 2 or 3 onwards, as opposed to the schools closing at 11 as they used to in some cases. Schools are just following guidelines, and the teachers certainly cannot be blamed for the timings of P/T meetings. They don't get a say in the matter. The school calendar is created by the board/principal.

One of my colleagues remarked that in her husband's job, if he's feeling a bit tired or just not motivated he can just switch off, take a break. Teachers cannot do this. As teacher you are responsible for the education of our young people, you can't just switch off. If you do, the first people to complain would be the parents. Fair enough, you're supposed to be teaching their kids. (Although in some cases it really is just that the child is lazy! But that's beside the point.)

I was under the impression that a lot of employers gave a good bit of time off to people for their wedding, and I'm not going to complain that teachers get a week. (Personally, I'd rather get married during the holidays anyway. Less stressful.)

However, I will agree that some teachers don't use their time off to prepare for classes, etc. There are some lazy teachers out there, some who are not motivated, or who are even in it for the holidays. These people give the dedicated teachers a bad name. Teaching is a cushy job if you make little effort. For those who are dedicated to it, it can be hell. (A rewarding hell!)

Some teachers probably are the laziest people in Ireland. Some plumbers are too. As are some doctors. Should I go on? Because I could name every job.

If anything you should complain about the lack of resources available to teachers and students in some schools. So many schools don't have basic computers or projectors, some schools are falling down. There are so fantastic many resources, especially technological resources, available nowadays that Irish teachers and students just don't have access to. I mean, some schools barely have labs for teaching science. If anything is 'taking the piss', it's this.

Focus on the important things in life, OP, not on the trivial.

dame

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Well just like anyone else trying to pay for a wedding, it's cheaper to get married in the middle of November than in July so I can't blame some of them for doing it really.

And people in all professions take time off for elective surgery. I don't know many people who would give up their two weeks summer holidays for surgery so it wouldn't inconvenience their employer. There are people in all sorts of professsions who work the system, teachers included, that doesn't mean all teachers should be tarred with the same brush. Most of my colleagues were working in some capacity this evening. However I also work with one of two who don't see anything wrong with sending in a sick cert in the middle of September for a week and coming back with a suntan. But they are in the minority and are present in every walk of life.

Agreed, there are people everywhere who take the piss. That is a fact. Two/three weeks is a short time to fit an elective surgery and a holiday into, 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 months on the other hand......

Of course most of your colleagues were working this evening...it's the school show and none of them will want to be seen as the one who didn't contribute!

rainbowtrout

dame wrote: »

However, it does seem particularly scabby for teachers to purposely arrange their wedding so that they will get the week off (when they have 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 months holidays in the year already) and to book yourself in for an unnecessary (I mean medically unnecessary) elective surgery during school time and take a week or more off for it.

Well just like anyone else trying to pay for a wedding, it's cheaper to get married in the middle of November than in July so I can't blame some of them for doing it really.

And people in all professions take time off for elective surgery. I don't know many people who would give up their two weeks summer holidays for surgery so it wouldn't inconvenience their employer. There are people in all sorts of professsions who work the system, teachers included, that doesn't mean all teachers should be tarred with the same brush. Most of my colleagues were working in some capacity this evening. However I also work with one of two who don't see anything wrong with sending in a sick cert in the middle of September for a week and coming back with a suntan. But they are in the minority and are present in every walk of life.

kowloon

Its like any job, some people get away with taking the pi55 and give the rest a bad name, and the strike really didn't help their case, a bad move.

mikemac

Ok, I want to retract my comment that teachers don't stay late.:o

What I vaguely remember from the strike a few years back was any extra parent or staff meetings had to be on school days and there were disputes about staying late to meet parents.
I do remember my own parent teacher meetings were on school time and certainly didn't run past 5pm.
Like the nurses dispute, initally they had sympathy and people quickly turned against them. Such as refusing to supervise the yards during breaks??

But as stated lots if not most teachers are excellent and and do help in GAA, quiz teams and school plays when they don't have to

dame

rainbowtrout wrote: »

And there are many parents who are appreciative of these activities being provided for their children.

Good for you. I'll be appreciative too when my children reach that stage and I did appreciate extra-curricular activities when I was in school.

However, it does seem particularly scabby for teachers to purposely arrange their wedding so that they will get the week off (when they have 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 months holidays in the year already) and to book yourself in for an unnecessary (I mean medically unnecessary) elective surgery during school time and take a week or more off for it.

Trotter

micmclo wrote: »

And they won't stay late to meet parents who want to come after their 9-5 job finishes.

I'm not teaching long but I often stay past 5 or 6pm, and then do an hour or two of work at night. I also work a half day at least every second Saturday.

Now.. Im not screaming for more money, Im just saying not all teachers walk when the bell rings. I certainly can't/don't.

dame wrote: »

They are usually expected to do a set of standard tests every year and will probably mark those outside of school, but otherwise they will generally mark things during the day.

I haven't got time to mark anything during the day. I'm too busy teaching!

rainbowtrout

dame wrote: »

Primary teachers very very rarely spend time in the evenings marking work. They are usually expected to do a set of standard tests every year and will probably mark those outside of school, but otherwise they will generally mark things during the day.

Secondary teachers might have more need to mark things outside of school hours (class tests, mock exams, etc). Then again, secondary teachers may have free periods during their day which very few primary teachers have. Those free periods can be used for marking.

Primary teachers can do optional training (a few days) during the summer but doing it gives them "course days" that they may take at any stage during the next school year. I presume this is what kbannon was referring to? Secondary teachers have the option of supervising exams or marking exams, both of which they will be paid for (on top of their salary for working the rest of the year). If it's optional then they can't really complain about it.

I usually end up spending my 'free classes' supervising other classes if teachers are out sick etc, or photo-copying material, preparing materials in the lab for a practical class (i'm a science teacher), cleaning glassware in the lab, dealing with paperwork, fixing computers and a million and one other things that i'm not going to mention here. I rarely have time in school to mark work.

On top of that, I take girl's soccer, school table quiz teams, school website maintenance, school tours, all in my own time. As do many of my colleagues. Much of this takes place after school. Earlier this evening I was working backstage at the school musical as I will be for the rest of this week. Many teachers give up their time willingly to get involved in lots of extra-curricular activities which students would not have the opportunity to get involved in if teachers didn't volunteer to do it.

And there are many parents who are appreciative of these activities being provided for their children.

dame

kbannon wrote: »

Nope, she does school related stuff. This summer she spent a good bit of time managing the stock list, a role she was given but not paid for!

Oh well, it'll be someone else's turn in the future.

dame

connundrum wrote: »

Should you want a week off for your wedding and/or laser eye treatment, I'd suggest you become a teacher.

Nah, I had far too many leaving cert points to be a teacher!

Besides, as others have pointed out, why would you want to put up with teenagers every day?

If you choose to though you shouldn't complain about it.

Seth Brundle

dame wrote: »

Primary teachers can do optional training (a few days) during the summer but doing it gives them "course days" that they may take at any stage during the next school year. I presume this is what kbannon was referring to? Secondary teachers have the option of supervising exams or marking exams, both of which they will be paid for (on top of their salary for working the rest of the year). If it's optional then they can't really complain about it.

Nope, she does school related stuff. This summer she spent a good bit of time managing the stock list, a role she was given but not paid for!
She has done the exam supervision/marking but the money wasn't worth the hassle.

dame

YeatsCounty wrote: »

Maybe that teacher wasn't able to arrange the appointment during a holiday period.

They had the option of getting it done during the Christmas break (after the Christmas and New Year) but chose to get it done earlier.

Seth Brundle

micmclo wrote: »

You do have a point-they have so many free days but they insist on having parent teacher meetings or staff meetings on school days.
Could they not just use a free day?
And they won't stay late to meet parents who want to come after their 9-5 job finishes.

Thats just crap.
My wife frequently has to stay late in school for parent/teacher meetings. Tonight her school had an open night which wrapped up about 10pm.
As for staff meetings, I don't know who makes the decision but she certainly has no say in the matter.
Please don't make uneducated sweeping statements.

Terry

Teachers deserve the time off.

I was a complete prick in school. Looking back, I wouldn't inflict the 14 year old me on my worst enemy. There were quite a few like me too and that was in a small (at the time) school.

Picture having to put up with a bunch of obnoxious teenagers every day or think back to your own school days.
Now imagine yourself on the other side of the desk having to put up with all those dicks in your class.

dame

Primary teachers very very rarely spend time in the evenings marking work. They are usually expected to do a set of standard tests every year and will probably mark those outside of school, but otherwise they will generally mark things during the day.

Secondary teachers might have more need to mark things outside of school hours (class tests, mock exams, etc). Then again, secondary teachers may have free periods during their day which very few primary teachers have. Those free periods can be used for marking.

Primary teachers can do optional training (a few days) during the summer but doing it gives them "course days" that they may take at any stage during the next school year. I presume this is what kbannon was referring to? Secondary teachers have the option of supervising exams or marking exams, both of which they will be paid for (on top of their salary for working the rest of the year). If it's optional then they can't really complain about it.

connundrum

I have a company car with free diesel. Its a perk. I work bloody hard for it.

Teachers work hard. They have perks.

I don't see what the problem here is?

The only people who get paid too much and get too many perks are elected officials.

Should you want a week off for your wedding and/or laser eye treatment, I'd suggest you become a teacher.

YeatsCounty

dame wrote: »

Also, I know of a teacher who took a week off to get laser eye treatment. Shouldn't she just have done this during the summer, or the Halloween week off, or waited until the three weeks off at Christmas, or even the Easter holidays???

Maybe that teacher wasn't able to arrange the appointment during a holiday period. Perhaps he/she was only able to be seen to during the school year. It's not impossible.

micmclo wrote: »

And they won't stay late to meet parents who want to come after their 9-5 job finishes.

This is a very sweeping statement. I finished my secondary school education in 2002 and up until then, any parent/teacher meeting that involved me (primary & secondary school) started at around 7PM or so.

dame

KdjaCL wrote: »

its a job something im betting you dont have.

What did you want to bet on it? You've lost.

Seth Brundle

My other half is a teacher.
She spends most evenings marking or preparing. She also has other school things on. She also does school related stuff during the summer.
Teachers may have long holidays. However, you could have become a teacher had you wanted to so don't begrudge someone for having something you didn't bother trying for.
Also, teachers do have the crappy role of trying to rear the children of the country as many parents live in a sort of dreamworld about their responsibilities.

KdjaCL

dame wrote: »

Hi folks,

What do you think of the fact that teachers are entitled to a week off for their wedding? I'm not joking, if a teacher gets married during the school year they are entitled to the week off, paid. Is this not taking the piss?

Also, I know of a teacher who took a week off to get laser eye treatment. Shouldn't she just have done this during the summer, or the Halloween week off, or waited until the three weeks off at Christmas, or even the Easter holidays??? (Some) Teachers are the laziest people in Ireland! They seem to have the weakest work ethic and strongest sense of entitlement I have ever come across outside of an umemployed person who has no intention of looking for work, ever.

its a job, they are not there to please kids or parents its a job something im betting you dont have.

ffs

what a dumb assed post.

kdjac

Dudess

No, she did her dip a couple of years ago. I suppose there's gonna be a difference to your workload depending on whether you get the same class every year or keep getting moved to different ones.