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Child Item

Four-in-10 Dublin children driven to school every day

Mizu_Ger

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/fourin10-dublin-children-driven-to-school-every-day-1117542.html

No wonder the roads are jammed in the morning. Surely its not that dangerous to let a child (of reasonable age) walk or cycle to school (accompanied by fat-arsed parent if need be).

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Mizu_Ger

I always walked or cycled from about 2nd class onwards (used to call aorund to friend next door and the two of us would head off together). Judging from rumours (some since substantiated!) that were doing the rounds at school at the time I was more likely to be molested in the classroom that on the way to it!

biko

Always walked/biked to school but then it was only 5 mins walk or so.

seamus

I remember walking or cycling to school every day with a mate from 1st class. About a mile, through not-so-quiet estates.

A mate of mine started secondary school in CUS (Leeson St), commuting from Knocklyon. His Dad drove him in on the first day (his Dad worked on St. Stephen's green) to show him where the school was. The next morning he was given a five-day bus card and told what bus to get. 12 years old. He was well able.

I don't see the paranoia about driving kids to school. Unless there are any particularly precarious junctions to navigate, a child of 8 should be well able to get themselves to school with their mates.

eirebhoy

We're going to be a bunch of fat buggers in a few years time. I love my 2 mile walk to work every morning and couldn't be arsed getting a car as I live so close to the city centre (that doesn't matter to a lot of people though). It's because I've been walking every morning since the age of 4 that I know no different. I can't imagine these kids will be happy to walk to school/work if they get used to a nice cosy car every morning.

po0k

Glowing wrote:

I wouldn't mind the SUV runs to school so much if someone had the brains to car-pool - and actually have more than one kid in the car at a time.

I used to say the same thing, until someone pointed out that terms of [most?] Irish car insurance policies prohibit things like car pooling, as you're then driving "for a profit".

This flies in the face of what should be a local government-supported, community-building excercise in civil co-operation.

I currently walk 30minutes to work, and on my way I see alot of mothers from the liberties walking their kids to school.

This is why the bourgeoisie will lose the battle for urban survival when the oil-wells dry up.

Wertz

SyxPak wrote:

I used to say the same thing, until someone pointed out that terms of [most?] Irish car insurance policies prohibit things like car pooling, as you're then driving "for a profit".

Oh you can't be f*ckin' serious...profit?

Another one of the legions of us on here who walked/cycled to school since primary, a round trip of ~5 miles for most of that time. On the very odd occasion I'd be given a lift (very wet or cold weather)
I've heard all the excuses from people who do this...it's yet another symtom of the "me" generation...everyone is prepared to whinge and moan about traffic but ask anyone to slightly alter their personal habits for the greater good and you're met with a blank stare or a look of incredulity....everything is someone else's fault, never theirs (or their kid's).

On a sidenote, what if school hours were "staggered" to stop office/factory opening hours cooinciding with school runs or vice versa? I know other EU countries operate like this....the system itself is a joke when you consider that everyone has top be in their place of education/work by 9am...it inevitably leads to everyone coming on to the road network at the same times and clogging up junctions and side roads. The same thing happens at 5pm (and at lunchtmes to a lesser extent)
Has anyone ever thought of trying such a system here? Or are we too set in or ways?
It's fairly obvious that the staus quo isn't going to change much and if anything, school runs are just going to increase.

Gran Hermano

Wertz wrote:

On a sidenote, what if school hours were "staggered" to stop office/factory opening hours cooinciding with school runs or vice versa? I know other EU countries operate like this....

I believe it was the parents councils who complained about this as it
would mean they would require a degree of flexibility with their own
employers as they would have to drop the sprogs to school at a time
that would mean they would themselves be in work earlier or later than the
norm as well. The teachers unions would most likely look for a cash bung to
adjust their working hours.

Wertz

Gran Hermano wrote:

I believe it was the parents councils who complained about this as it
would mean they would require a degree of flexibility with their own
employers as they would have to drop the sprogs to school at a time
that would mean they would themselves be in work earlier or later than the
norm as well. The teachers unions would most likely look for a cash bung to
adjust their working hours.

Oh yeah I know it'd be fraught with problems like the ones you mention and probably several besides, but as it stands things are just getting worse every year, we can't build our way out of the problem....so it's either adjust, with whatever financial implications that has, or just do nothing and we'll all just waste that money (and time) sitting in traffic.

the boss of me

My 7 year old daughter cycles to school every day and loves it. Out of the 460 children in her school there are three who cycle to school regularly. When I was kid in primary school the bikes were piled three deep in the bike shed..

People say it is dangerous but it's not if you supervise them. In my case my wife walks with our daughter to school and I cycle down and collect her. She is also learning roadcraft and is learning basic rules of the road which will stand to her for the rest of her life.

It's more relaxing for me as I hate trying to find parking near the school. Some of the mums turn up at 2pm for a 2.30 pick up, just to save themselves a 100m walk !! How lazy is that ?

Capt'n Midnight

One of the biggest danger to kids cycling / walking to school is being hit by a car used to transport kids to school.

During school hours I'd like 30kmph zones.
I'd ban U turns near schools because of the danger and the way it just clogs up traffic.
Drop them off at the end of the road !

Yes I used to hate getting wet going to school, but how much does "the school run" cost society when you realise how much is spent on roads to cater for the extra traffic.

School buses should be the answer, even in urban areas.

[Deleted User]

Kids should be taught the rules of the road in primary school. In England they have this, so why not over here?

Source: CBBC

But the roads are unbelievably dangerous. I had previously been a championship cyclist for years, and even I found it difficult sometimes. Especially when there are not enough bikelanes, the paths in dire condition and thus being forced to cycle on the road, and having drivers been careless.

And why don't we have car-pool lanes over here? Don't they offer parents or people in general a quicker access to different areas? That itself would be a great benefit.

Nevyn

There is also the weight of school bag with some children having to cary 20% of thier weight in books to school.

markpb

Deleted User wrote:

But the roads are unbelievably dangerous. I had previously been a championship cyclist for years, and even I found it difficult sometimes. Especially when there are not enough bikelanes, the paths in dire condition and thus being forced to cycle on the road, and having drivers been careless.

Most young kids that I see cycling to school use the footpath rather than the road. They use the same traffic lights, pedestrian crossing, etc as a pedestrian. They're not likely to be doing any speed and I've never seen any pedestrian giving them a second glance. It seems like a reasonably sane compromise.

thebman

Thaedydal wrote:

There is also the weight of school bag with some children having to cary 20% of thier weight in books to school.

That's a stupid excuse. I thought it was a stupid excuse when I was going to school and I still do. I was an extremely light kid and I had no problems.

If it was that hard to carry a schoolbag, kids would use both straps, most don't so my guess would be 20% is either exaggerated or an acceptable weight for a person to carry a reasonable distance.

I know I used to carry my school bag 2 miles if my bus didn't turn up in secondary school and I never had any problems.

There is no law saying kids must walk from school to their house without stopping to take a rest.

zuutroy

I went to school sitting on the handlebars of my mates bike, down a monster hill on the path, dodging all the other kids as we went...

LOL @ the kids who have flight bags instead of school bags coz their mammies think they'll be deformed by carring a few books

Nevyn

http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/story.asp?stID=868

Athlone school kids carrying 20% of body weight in school bags

Karen Downey
reports

Carrying heavy school bags can have devastating long-term effects on children, an Athlone based chiropractor has said this week. Dr Mary Helen Hensley told the Westmeath Independent carrying heavy school bags can be extremely damaging to children as their bones and discs in their backs are still developing. A Westmeath Independent study this week found that a primary school and secondary school student, both carry approximately 20 per cent of their body weight in their school bags. Lucy Dowling is in fifth class and on a day when she has a lot of homework her school bag can weigh up to one stone, over 20 per cent of her four and a half stone body weight. Older sister Judy, who is in first year, also carries approximately 20 per cent of her body weight in her school bag. Dr Hensley explained that this is an average weight for school students to carry with the majority of Irish school children carrying between 15 and 20 per cent of their body weight in their bags on a daily basis.

Carrying such a heavy weight on a daily basis can have devastating long-term effects and may cause to the development of Scheuermann’s disease in these children. This syndrome is a result of the disc protruding into the vertebrae because the bone isn’t completely solidified when children are carrying such heavy weights. Dr Hensley explained that this syndrome is prevalent among Irish people and said because many Irish adults grew up in farming communities where they often carried heavy weights as child the syndrome is quite common here. She added that chiropractors are now seeing it in modern children and it is a result of them carrying heavy school bags. Each year Dr Hensley visits Summerhill NS where she gives a talk to the children on how to load and carry their school bags properly so as to minimise the damage. She explained students should use trolley bags or at the very least ensure they carry their school bags on both shoulders. “The worst thing is kids carry their bags on one shoulder because it’s cool but the damage can be quite significant,” she said. Dr Hensley added that carrying heavy school bags didn’t just cause postural problems and said because the nervous system was held within the spinal column it could lead in a breakdown of communications from the brain to the rest of the body.

zuutroy

In other news, this has been the case for decades and I dont see too many hunchbacks roaming the streets. Look at ants, they can carry 100's of times their body weight....Human kids are pussies.

Wertz

Thaedydal wrote:

http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/story.asp?stID=868

I too had a fairly heavy schoolbag as I'm sure most of us had. If it's such a large problem now, then why aren't there school policies against it?
The cartel of publishers who make a mint out of hefty schoolbooks every september can be held to blame, so can the actions of teachers in dictating homework that necessitates children having to drag a book for every subject home each evening.
Using the weight of schoolbags as an excuse to justify a majority of parents making a school run in their car/jeep is only a cop out...if it's such a problem then parent's groups need to approach Mary Hannafin or school boards at local level and have an important policy change made on the grounds of health and safety (the most powerful lobbyist grounp in the country)

Here's my theory on why we really have so many parents doing the wasteful school run in modern Ireland....it's the same reason we do most things in this country....it's to show off. Or rather it's to avoid being seen as "hard-up". The parade of cars and SUVs, all sporting late regs is nothing short of a fashion parade...people can make all the excuses they want....at the bottom of it all, just like the way everything else has gone in this country, it's all about what you have, how much of it you have and how you decide to flaunt it to everyone else...

coolhandc

zuutroy wrote:

In other news, this has been the case for decades and I dont see too many hunchbacks roaming the streets. Look at ants, they can carry 100's of times their body weight....Human kids are pussies.

Lets not get carried away here, just because people dont have hunchbacks doesnt mean they dont develop bad backs when they are growing up. Stopping for rests every few minutes doesnt stop the damage its doing plus how long is it going to take them to get to school if there constantly stopping?
we are the most well off that weve ever been here in ireland,so whats wrong with a parent bringing their kids 5 minutes to school if they want to give the kid a good childhood?

zuutroy

coolhandc wrote:

whats wrong with a parent bringing their kids 5 minutes to school if they want to give the kid a good childhood?

Read: turn them into a lazy, fat, spoiled git.

BaZmO*

coolhandc wrote:

we are the most well off that weve ever been here in ireland,so whats wrong with a parent bringing their kids 5 minutes to school if they want to give the kid a good childhood?

Traffic Congestion? Obese Children?

Wertz wrote:

Here's my theory on why we really have so many parents doing the wasteful school run in modern Ireland....it's the same reason we do most things in this country....it's to show off. Or rather it's to avoid being seen as "hard-up". The parade of cars and SUVs, all sporting late regs is nothing short of a fashion parade...people can make all the excuses they want....at the bottom of it all, just like the way everything else has gone in this country, it's all about what you have, how much of it you have and how you decide to flaunt it to everyone else...

How do explain all the sh1tty cars that are bringing kids to school also?

I'd say it's just down to laziness and the "my little precious" factor.

BKtje

Are people mainly complaining about the roads being clogged up or the fact that being driven to school makes you obese (which is ridiculous in itself).

If it's about the clogging i have no sympathy for you, you own a car so are part of the problem anyway. Either leave 20 minutes earlier and avoid the school run, leave 20minutes later (probably not an option), avoid school areas completly or find an alternative method to get to work.

Yes parents should take more consideration for other road users but that is not parent exclusive. Even when parents stop to let their kids out they rarely double park or are sitting still long enough to warrant a fine/clamping. I don't remember when people would park just to let their kids out all that often.
Where i went to school (and since being in UCD, passing schools every day as i cycle) i rarely see the big black SUV pandemic that some people claim to see. Either they are not nearly as prevalent as some people claim or they just aren't around the dun laoghaire rathdown area that i frequent.

If people believe that being driven to school makes you obese then you need to realise what makes you put on weight. Sure being driven to school doesn't burn many calories but what's to say that that kid isn't then running around at break time playing football/games etc. Obesity isn't caused by lack of exercise of walking/cycling to school(though of course it does contribute) but by eating more crap than your body burns off. I don't think being driven to school is going to turn a perfectly healthy kid into an obese one if the wrong lifestyle wasn't there to begin with is the point im trying to make.

For the record i am against parents driving kids to school (and generally i've either cycled, walked or bussed it) but I always have to laugh when drivers complain about other people using up THEIR road space.

As an aside why don't workers(the ones complaining in this thread i mean) car pool/use public transport/ use park and ride facilities. I realise some of you can't help it (just like some parents bringing their children can't) but i'd say if most of you made an effort you too could take your car off the roads of the more populated areas. /rant

Wertz

BaZmO* wrote:

Traffic Congestion? Obese Children?

How do explain all the sh1tty cars that are bringing kids to school also?

I'd say it's just down to laziness and the "my little precious" factor.

Yeah in fairness there's loads of factors...my theory is only one of the factors.
No matter what it is that's the root cause, be it weather, prosperity, heavy schoolbags, lazy brats, dark mornings/evenings, rogue paedophiles, dangerous roads or sheer bloodymindedness, it's a problem that's not going to go away.
It's a lot like CO2 emissions....we all know there's a problem but no-one's really prepared to make the individual effort or to impinge on their own lifestyle to try and change that...

Someone mentioned buses above; if any of you have been to a US city then you'll see the role buses have to play in the school system. Now this is in a country that is known for it's lack of realistic public transport and love affair with the car. Over there you're not even allowed overtake a stopped schoolbus....they are given road priority. It works like that all the way up to highschool. Unfortunately our government is much more concerned with how elderly rural voters are going to get to the pub of a weekend, than how we might get our kids safely to school without requiring the building of a 5 lane highway...

zuutroy

B-K-DzR wrote:

A
If people believe that being driven to school makes you obese then you need to realise what makes you put on weight.

I dont think anyone's arguing that its a first order effect. People are saying it breeds laziness, discourages exercise, and is bad for discipline. I would've loved a lift to school every day, but I'm sure I was a lot better for having to get out there in the cold!

Terry

Regarding the weight of school bags; If it is doing damage to kids while they are on their way to school, it is also doing them damage while they are moving from one classroom to another.
Are they to be chauffeur driven between classes?

What happens if they strain their backs while picking the bag up between classes?

Let them walk, the lazy bastards. Then send them out in the evening to play football instead of letting them sit in front of their NES or whatever they play these days.

BaZmO*

B-K-DzR wrote:

Even when parents stop to let their kids out they rarely double park

They always double park, maybe not long enough to warrant an individual getting a ticket but it's the constant stream of double parking that causes traffic congestion.

B-K-DzR wrote:

i rarely see the big black SUV pandemic that some people claim to see. Either they are not nearly as prevalent as some people claim or they just aren't around the dun laoghaire rathdown area that i frequent.

I think people just use the big black SUV term as a catch all for people that drive their kids to and from school unnecessarily. They mightn't be that prevailent but there's certainly a lot of them. Have you ever driven by Mount Carmel at school time? The long line of SUVs all the way down the hill is absolutely hilarious.

B-K-DzR wrote:

but what's to say that that kid isn't then running around at break time playing football/games etc.

Because they're not allowed anymore.

projectmayhem

Thaedydal wrote:

http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/story.asp?stID=868

my school's solution to this was to put in lockers for a tenner for the year, which was a great idea. didn't stop mumzy and daddy delivering the kids to school, regardless of how short/long the walk would be

Terry

B-K-DzR wrote:

If it's about the clogging i have no sympathy for you, you own a car so are part of the problem anyway. Either leave 20 minutes earlier and avoid the school run, leave 20minutes later (probably not an option), avoid school areas completly or find an alternative method to get to work.

I'm complaining as a pedestrian who has to dodge cars while going to the shop for a sliced pan.

zuutroy

Terry, if you eat bread, you're part of the problem. Old Mr. Brennans vans clog up the arteries of out nation every morning!

Duckjob

"When I were a lad, our father used to beat us to sleep with broken bottles"

Seriously, I despair when I see those fat-assed parents struggling their way out of their fat-assed SUVs and waddling to the school gates with their jowelly-faced kids in tow.