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Do you consider the term 'throwing a paddy' to be a racist slur?

Alanna

I am a regular poster on a UK forum and debate is raging about this term there atm.
Before I moved to the UK I never really heard this phrase for describing a tantrum so I suspect it originated in the UK. I was wondering what the opinion is on here? I suspect the origin of this term stems from the opinion that the Irish over in the UK had a history of fighting and being physical but I could be totally wrong. I can't find the origin of it anywhere, so does anyone here know where it comes from, or care?

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Fratton Fred

bill_ashmount wrote:

:rolleyes:

care to deny it?

Fratton Fred

Hagar wrote:

It's not hard to believe that any negative stereotype, coming from the English, containing the word "Paddy", is a slur against the Irish race.

We are not your michievious tantrum throwing children, and we never were. Get over it.

This Article might be worth a read.

Did you notice that in that article, the author conveniently slips between English and British to avoid criticising the Welsh (It's written for a Welsh magazine).

One author's impression does not make a fact based arguement. Sure there used to be "No Black, No Irish" signs up in boarding houses, but do you really think that in Ireland today, if they could get away with putting up "No Poes, No Chinese" sign they would.

Do not criticise the spec in your neighbours eye, when you cannot see the moat in your own,

bill_ashmount

Fratton Fred wrote:

Ireland is a far more racist country than England.

:rolleyes:

Hagar

I've only ever heard the phrase on English TV, never in real life.

I don't think your average English guy is insensitive enough to cause offence bu using the phrase deliberately in front of an Irish person , but the fact that he would refrain from using the phrase is an acknowledgement of it racist overtones.

[Deleted User]

Fratton Fred wrote:

do you not read After Hours very much.

Just see how much hatred is shown to Travellers, Roma, the Poles and anyone else who isn't Irish.

Then think again.

Ireland is a far more racist country than England.

I thought the majority of Travellers in Ireland were Irish?

Alanna

Just found this
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/paddy_2?view=uk

Fratton Fred

r3nu4l wrote:

How am I being sensitive? I stated some facts and made a summation on how that reflects on the meaning of the phrase based on the reaction of the English people around me. Nothing more. How is that being sensitive to anything? I think you're drawing a conclusion that isn't there Fred.

As it happens, the girl did not mean to be offensive so I wasn't offended but it does show that while the phrase may be bandied about a lot without much thought...English people in general DO understand what it means in relation to Irish people and do associate it with Irish people.

If I was sensitive to everything the English say and do I either wouldn't be living in Engerland or I'd have about a million posts here about it

Actually, reading that again, you are right, I think the people around you should be less sensitive.

I will gaurantee they did not associate the term with the Irish, I never have (But it's not a phrase I use very often) but their reaction was probably more hurtful than the phrase.

Fratton Fred

latenia wrote:

The English still think they're superior to the rest of the world and using these words is just another way to help delude themselves. One of the first things they assign to any race is a derogotary nickname-think of Kraut, Frog, Paki Paddy, Sweaty etc. I know of no other culture that does this to this extent.

do you not read After Hours very much.

Just see how much hatred is shown to Travellers, Roma, the Poles and anyone else who isn't Irish.

Then think again.

Ireland is a far more racist country than England.

tallus

Fratton Fred wrote:

has no one thought how Bernhard must feel about the way people use his name for gods sake.

people should have more respect for a golfer of his calibre.

When he missed a six foot putt in the Ryder Cup years back he had the nickname "the six foot langer"

Alanna

LOL over on that forum they are being all sanctimonious about how it has nothing to do with the Irish and how people can choose to be offended at anything. And then there are about a hundred of them piling in saying that their granddad is irish and he uses the term and various other weak defences. I have actually given up and am not arguing it because I can't 'prove' where it comes from, OED is the only source they will accept and you can't access that online.

Anyhow, life is too short to get het up, I know. I just think that it is more than likely that this term did originate as a slur on the Irish and that it is convenient for folk in the UK to 'forget' where it came from.

Fratton Fred

latenia wrote:

The English still think they're superior to the rest of the world and using these words is just another way to help delude themselves. One of the first things they assign to any race is a derogotary nickname-think of Kraut, Frog, Paki Paddy, Sweaty etc. I know of no other culture that does this to this extent.

Err, isn't a sweeping derogatory generalisation of an entire nation racist?

By the way, we are superior, get over it;)

Dave!

Never heard the expression, but I'm not offended at all

Ickle Magoo

Alanna wrote:

I am a regular poster on a UK forum and debate is raging about this term there atm.
Before I moved to the UK I never really heard this phrase for describing a tantrum so I suspect it originated in the UK. I was wondering what the opinion is on here? I suspect the origin of this term stems from the opinion that the Irish over in the UK had a history of fighting and being physical but I could be totally wrong. I can't find the origin of it anywhere, so does anyone here know where it comes from, or care?

I'm from Scotland & I'd never heard the expression until I read your post...is it an English expression? Now look at who's throwing racial slurs about!

Alanna

It's a cabbage I think, as in saurkraut.

The Bollox

apart from being a dergoratory German name, what is a kraut?

latenia

The English still think they're superior to the rest of the world and using these words is just another way to help delude themselves. One of the first things they assign to any race is a derogotary nickname-think of Kraut, Frog, Paki Paddy, Sweaty etc. I know of no other culture that does this to this extent.

Alanna

Look I know it is not up there with the most offensive things that can be said and I know that English people generally don't mean it to be a racial slur BUT it does contribute to the low-level pervasive prejudice that the Irish suffer in the UK.
I didn't have a clue about it until I lived here for a few years and it does bother me, not a huge amount but enough to argue about it on the internet for most of the day:rolleyes:

Having googled it a few times there is no real 'proof' that it has an anti-irish sentiment but that is the general asumption. I think the fact that it is a term rarely used in Ireland is quite significant too.

So just in case you didn't realise, you too can be offended when you next hear it:D

r3nu4l

Fratton Fred wrote:

I think you need to be a little bit less sensitive.

How am I being sensitive? I stated some facts and made a summation on how that reflects on the meaning of the phrase based on the reaction of the English people around me. Nothing more. How is that being sensitive to anything? I think you're drawing a conclusion that isn't there Fred.

As it happens, the girl did not mean to be offensive so I wasn't offended but it does show that while the phrase may be bandied about a lot without much thought...English people in general DO understand what it means in relation to Irish people and do associate it with Irish people.

If I was sensitive to everything the English say and do I either wouldn't be living in Engerland or I'd have about a million posts here about it

AlmightyCushion

I don't find the term in the slightest bit offensive and I thing anyone who does is far too sensitive for their own good.

Hagar

It's not hard to believe that any negative stereotype, coming from the English, containing the word "Paddy", is a slur against the Irish race.

We are not your michievious tantrum throwing children, and we never were. Get over it.

This Article might be worth a read.

The Bollox

the first time I saw his name on the tv I thought someone was having a laugh

Fratton Fred

ejmaztec wrote:

Throwing a paddy is no worse than zip up yer mickey!

has no one thought how Bernhard must feel about the way people use his name for gods sake.

people should have more respect for a golfer of his calibre.

tallus

ejmaztec wrote:

Throwing a paddy is no worse than zip up yer mickey!

Does anyone know if the original version of the twink thing is doing the rounds?
I dont find the term "throwing a paddy" offensive, who gives a toss tbh.

Fratton Fred

r3nu4l wrote:

Like the OP, I had never heard this term until moving to the UK. In fact I was here over a year before I heard it. A girl at work last February said it (a month after I started my current job). She immediately looked at me and threw her hand over her mouth in shock at her faux pas and then apologised.

The fact that everyone else who was there started to squirm and look red-faced tells me that the English know exactly what it means and use it in a derogatory manner in much the same way as they use 'the N-word' in private but not in public...

Therefore I view it as racist.

I think you need to be a little bit less sensitive.

The Bollox

r3nu4l wrote:

Like the OP, I had never heard this term until moving to the UK. In fact I was here over a year before I heard it. A girl at work last February said it (a month after I started my current job). She immediately looked at me and threw her hand over her mouth in shock at her faux pas and then apologised.

The fact that everyone else who was there started to squirm and look red-faced tells me that the English know exactly what it means and use it in a derogatory manner in much the same way as they use 'the N-word' in private but not in public...

Therefore I view it as racist.

in the same way you wouldn't say "working like a black" infront of a black person

r3nu4l

tbh wrote:

I would imagine that it's lost it's meaning today - most English people probably just think of 'paddy' in this context as meaning a tantrum, with no connection to ireland

Like the OP, I had never heard this term until moving to the UK. In fact I was here over a year before I heard it. A girl at work last February said it (a month after I started my current job). She immediately looked at me and threw her hand over her mouth in shock at her faux pas and then apologised.

The fact that everyone else who was there started to squirm and look red-faced tells me that the English know exactly what it means and use it in a derogatory manner in much the same way as they use 'the N-word' in private but not in public...

Therefore I view it as racist.

ejmaztec

Throwing a paddy is no worse than zip up yer mickey!

Cuddlesworth

Won't somebody think of the children, for the love of god think of the children!!!

tbh

I think the origin could be seen as racist by todays standards, but obviously it's ridiculous to judge the actions of the past by todays standards. I would imagine that it's lost it's meaning today - most English people probably just think of 'paddy' in this context as meaning a tantrum, with no connection to ireland - like the 'paddy' in 'paddy' fields. It's an interesting one, I've never heard the expression before, but I wouldn't be too worried about it.

edit: it would seem they are in fact connected:

From the twelfth century, when Gerald of Wales described the Irish as "a filthy people, wallowing in vice," to the nineteenth century, when Thomas Carlyle called Ireland a "human swinery", and well into the next, the Irish have were viewed as an inferior race by the British. Declan Kiberd, in ‘Inventing Ireland – The Literature Of The Modern Nation’ argues that Ireland was pressed into service as a foil to set off English virtues.

‘Victorian imperialists attributed to the Irish all those emotions and impulses which a harsh mercantile code had led them to suppress in themselves. Thus, if John Bull was industrious and reliable, Paddy was held to be indolent and contrary;if the former was mature and rational, the latter must be unstable and emotional;if the English were adult and manly, the Irish must be childish and feminine.’ (Page 34)

The English, then, projected onto the Irish all the feelings and behaviour that they couldn’t face in themselves and, argues Kiberd, Ireland became England’s subconscious. Traces of this persist to the present day – Leeds, where I now live, is one of the most violent cities in the UK, yet people here still refer to someone losing their temper as ‘Throwing a Paddy” (and, of course, people still continue to use the expression “to welsh on a deal”).

http://www.rayfrench.com/We've Been here before.htm

Steez

Pighead wrote:

Pighead would have thought that 'throwing a Maddy' would be a more fitting term to describe somebody who was losing it.

ROFL