Alanna wrote: I am a regular poster on a UK forum and debate is raging about this term there atm. Before I moved to the UK I never really heard this phrase for describing a tantrum so I suspect it originated in the UK. I was wondering what the opinion is on here? I suspect the origin of this term stems from the opinion that the Irish over in the UK had a history of fighting and being physical but I could be totally wrong. I can't find the origin of it anywhere, so does anyone here know where it comes from, or care?
latenia wrote: The English still think they're superior to the rest of the world and using these words is just another way to help delude themselves. One of the first things they assign to any race is a derogotary nickname-think of Kraut, Frog, Paki Paddy, Sweaty etc. I know of no other culture that does this to this extent.
Fratton Fred wrote: has no one thought how Bernhard must feel about the way people use his name for gods sake. people should have more respect for a golfer of his calibre.
r3nu4l wrote: How am I being sensitive? I stated some facts and made a summation on how that reflects on the meaning of the phrase based on the reaction of the English people around me. Nothing more. How is that being sensitive to anything? I think you're drawing a conclusion that isn't there Fred. As it happens, the girl did not mean to be offensive so I wasn't offended but it does show that while the phrase may be bandied about a lot without much thought...English people in general DO understand what it means in relation to Irish people and do associate it with Irish people. If I was sensitive to everything the English say and do I either wouldn't be living in Engerland or I'd have about a million posts here about it
Fratton Fred wrote: do you not read After Hours very much. Just see how much hatred is shown to Travellers, Roma, the Poles and anyone else who isn't Irish. Then think again. Ireland is a far more racist country than England.
Fratton Fred wrote: Ireland is a far more racist country than England.
Hagar wrote: It's not hard to believe that any negative stereotype, coming from the English, containing the word "Paddy", is a slur against the Irish race. We are not your michievious tantrum throwing children, and we never were. Get over it. This Article might be worth a read.
bill_ashmount wrote: :rolleyes:
Fratton Fred wrote: do you really think that in Ireland today, if they could get away with putting up "No Poes, No Chinese" sign they would.
Fratton Fred wrote: Did you notice that in that article, the author conveniently slips between English and British to avoid criticising the Welsh (It's written for a Welsh magazine).
Fratton Fred wrote: One author's impression does not make a fact based arguement. Sure there used to be "No Black, No Irish" signs up in boarding houses, but do you really think that in Ireland today, if they could get away with putting up "No Poes, No Chinese" sign they would.
Fratton Fred wrote: R3nual wrote: Like the OP, I had never heard this term until moving to the UK. In fact I was here over a year before I heard it. A girl at work last February said it (a month after I started my current job). She immediately looked at me and threw her hand over her mouth in shock at her faux pas and then apologised. The fact that everyone else who was there started to squirm and look red-faced tells me that the English know exactly what it means and use it in a derogatory manner in much the same way as they use 'the N-word' in private but not in public... Therefore I view it as racist. I think you need to be a little bit less sensitive.
R3nual wrote: Like the OP, I had never heard this term until moving to the UK. In fact I was here over a year before I heard it. A girl at work last February said it (a month after I started my current job). She immediately looked at me and threw her hand over her mouth in shock at her faux pas and then apologised. The fact that everyone else who was there started to squirm and look red-faced tells me that the English know exactly what it means and use it in a derogatory manner in much the same way as they use 'the N-word' in private but not in public... Therefore I view it as racist.
Fratton Fred wrote: Err, isn't a sweeping derogatory generalisation of an entire nation racist?
axer wrote: It is a racist slur which I am not offended by. I do get a strong impression by the majority of English people I meet that the nation suffers from a superiority complex.
I have an English friend who is convinced that the English (not british, Scottish or Welsh (He refers to Wales as "The insignificant country). Specifically the English) brought civilisation to the entire world and we would all still be living in mud huts were it not for them.
Fratton Fred wrote: care to deny it?
bill_ashmount wrote: I don't need to deny it. You come out with another random statement, which in any event can't be quantified. I'm going to leave you alone now, because your obviously not the most intelligent person out there. Even if it was true, it would be funny coming from a person who hails from one of the most murderous nations that ever existed.
Hagar wrote: I've only ever heard the phrase on English TV, never in real life. I don't think your average English guy is insensitive enough to cause offence bu using the phrase deliberately in front of an Irish person , but the fact that he would refrain from using the phrase is an acknowledgement of it racist overtones.
Hagar wrote: He did mention the phrase "welshing on a bet" so I think the article in not entirely biased. Indeed it does not, you are quite correct. It does show that at least one author has done reseach and believes that there might be some truth to the premise that the phrase may be racist in origin. Before I embrace your assumption that Irish boarding houses would put up such signs if they could I would ask you to justify the original signs in England.
Latenia wrote: I've never heard any 'hatred' of Poles here and Roma are unpopular everywhere. In fact, many Eastern Europeans come here ahead of the UK because we are more welcoming. There is some disquiet over immigration and asylum seekers here but it's generally confined to a minority. Remember-the population of Ireland has increased by about 15% with foreigners in the last few years-the equivalent percentage increase in the UK would be about 8 million people. There are always a backward few who whinge louder than the majority but in general I would say the integration here has been remarkably smooth.
latenia wrote: Travellers are Irish; I've never heard any 'hatred' of Poles here and Roma are unpopular everywhere. In fact, many Eastern Europeans come here ahead of the UK because we are more welcoming. There is some disquiet over immigration and asylum seekers here but it's generally confined to a minority. Remember-the population of Ireland has increased by about 15% with foreigners in the last few years-the equivalent percentage increase in the UK would be about 8 million people. There are always a backward few who whinge louder than the majority but in general I would say the integration here has been remarkably smooth.
latenia wrote: Contrast this with the hysterics in the mainstream British press. The 2 best selling papers in the UK are the Daily Mail and the Sun-they reflect the opinions of the masses. Only last week the Sun used the word 'Paki' in a headline.
latenia wrote: We have no equivalent of the BNP in this country (well if we do it's 2 men and a dog, not elected officials.)
latenia wrote: We do not start wars out of some deeply ingrained superiority complex. I understand how you might get defensive about this but I'm afraid it's true. Before I would have rejected criticism of the English as outdated remnants of Irish republicanism and been embarassed by it. As I got older and more aware of the world and society I saw the huge flaws in Britain and in particular the English .
is pretty much the same as 1950s/60 Britain. Unused to immigration and a fear of the unknown.
you do and yes, they are. England however does not elect terrorists to the house of commons, therefore can we presume that the whole of Ireland support the IRA? no? thought not.
gilroyb wrote: The point I'm trying to make is that point scoring is in the end fairly useless, it's always easy for someone to show that you're wrong. Wouldn't it be slightly more sensible to say that it doesn't matter who is the more racist, instead just try not to be racist at all? The phrase "throwing a paddy" is quite likely a reference to the Irish, and even if it wasn't originally, with no other explanation it would likely be taken by Irish people as such a reference nowadays. I imagine people who use the phrase don't realise how it could be misconstrued, but that doesn't stop it from being racist. I've been living in the UK for a year now and haven't heard it, but I would think less of someone who I heard utter it.
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