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Child Item

32 dead in school shooting

scojones

At least 30 people were fatally shot Monday on the campus of Virginia Tech University in Blacksburg, police said, according to WDBJ. CNN working to confirm.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html

Terrible.

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Voodu Child

mike65 wrote:

No chance of that, cos in part the NRA are right - "guns don't kill, people kill"

Are they f*ck....what a load of codswallop. People kill people, but guns help them kill lots of people.

If someone is f*cked up enough to want to go on a rampage, fair enough, they could probably do it with a kitchen knife, but there's no doubt that access to firearms, ammunition & magazines contributed to the magnitude of loss here.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

it makes it look like politicians are making an effort to solve the problem, while leaving them with plenty of free time to spend playing golf, beating up hookers or whatever else.

it's a public relations effort, not much else.

InFront

Mordeth wrote:

mother of pearl.. you'd swear there was no violence on the planet before Doom II

Doom I then?

Binomate

But it's still ok to allow guns to be sold on every street corner in America because their constitution was based on the right to arms... Well done.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

voodoo_child wrote:

Are they f*ck....what a load of codswallop. People kill people, but guns help them kill lots of people.

If someone is f*cked up enough to want to go on a rampage, fair enough, they could probably do it with a kitchen knife, but there's no doubt that access to firearms, ammunition & magazines contributed to the magnitude of loss here.

yes and no, if there were well armed/trained security guards on campus or if the regular students were permitted to carry firearms one of them could have taken this guy out before he got to victim 5, six, thirty two.

more guns, not less would have saved lives here. The problem in virginia was there were only two guns, and both of them were in the hands of the maniac.

--edit

doom II was *so* much more realistic than doom1, it was almost as if you were really dodging huge fireballs and killing giant mechanical spiders.

Raskolnikov

InFront wrote:

Doom I then?

It's a moot point. If you want violence in the media you can go back to WW2 and watch the propaganda films of Uncle Sam and the Boys mowing down wave after wave of filthy, dirty, evil Germans.

mike65

voodoo_child wrote:

Are they f*ck....what a load of codswallop. People kill people, but guns help them kill lots of people.

If someone is f*cked up enough to want to go on a rampage, fair enough, they could probably do it with a kitchen knife, but there's no doubt that access to firearms, ammunition & magazines contributed to the magnitude of loss here.

One dead or a hundred, its still the ROOT CAUSE that needs tackling and that as much a 'culture' as 'gun culture' is.

Mr Angry who is he? Whats his beef and why his inadequate character?

Mike.

Hard Larry

Scary stuff alright....

on a side note has anyone else noticed the amount of obese cops in Virginia?

patrickolee

InFront wrote:

Doom I then?

Wolfenstein perhaps.

Manic Moran

Mordeth wrote:

yep, schools and uni's in america are classed as 'gun free zones' which means students with registered guns aren't allowed carry them on campus, and security guards aren't allowed them either.. had there been a well armed security force at this campus (or even at columbine, or any of the other shootings) it is quite likely the death toll would have been far lower.
but no, guns are evil.. we gotta protect children from guns. so let's completely remove guns from their area and leave them vulnerable to attack from nutters like this chap.

Some slight inaccuracies there:

Not all universities are gun-free zones. It's an issue of the state legislature and the establishment's personal choice. For example, Utah State permits students to be armed. Compare also the shooting in 2002 on a Virginian law school campus, where the shooter was contained by armed students. Campus police are almost invariably armed, I don't know of any campus cops who aren't.

will probably be a big issue in the upcoming presidential candidate race for the next election after G.W.B leaves office

It already is. I wouldn't expect people outside of the US to be following it, but HR.1022 is causing quite a ruckus in the shooting community. It's a piece of legislation proposed and sponsored exclusively by Coast Democrats, and is probably the most draconian piece of gun control legislation ever tabled in the US. Mid-West/Southern Democrats (Who tend to like guns) are begging the Coasties to drop the gun control issue as it's a proven vote-loser, and the Republicans are using it as a rallying cry "See! They lied! The Democrats DO want to take your guns away." Unfortunately, the Democratic Party is currently headed by the Coast Democrats, so their principles are the ones associated with the Dems as a whole.
Check out the HR1022 thread on Democraticunderground's gun subforum.

Fortunately, no knee-jerk legislation has a chance of passing the current US Congress. Indeed, the various legislatures, both state and federal, are currently loosening some of the restrictions. Less than ten states are now anything other than 'Shall issue concealed weapons permits' (as opposed to 'may issue', or 'shall not issue'), there have been a numer of states passing 'Stand your ground' laws, which basically means that you no longer have any duty to retreat if you are somewhere you have every legal right to be, and after Katrina, a number of legislatures, followed by Congress passed legislation prohibiting the confiscation of firearms in a state of emergency, as if there's a breakdown in law and order, your best form of defense isn't calling 9-1-1, it's being able to defend yourself!

NTM

MooseJam

it's a pity theres never a camera around for these shootings, I'd love to see one go down

InFront

mike65 wrote:

One dead or a hundred, its still the ROOT CAUSE that needs tackling and that as much a 'culture' as 'gun culture' is.

That may be the answer in other forms of terrorism, but I don't think it is here.
You'll never fix all of the Mr Angrys with guns, there will always be nutters. Making them want to change isn't the first step imo; take Mr Angry's gun from him first, and then make him change if you can.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

there's plenty of videos on the net of people being shot if that's what you're after

MooseJam

yeah i've seen them they're mostly Iraqi's being shot, american collage kids would be a nice change

Boston

MooseJam wrote:

yeah i've seen them they're mostly Iraqi's being shot, american collage kids would be a nice change

Hmm, for a guy who on like he's 20th account here, you sure like to talk a lot of crap.

Spyral

more guns, not less would have saved lives here. The problem in virginia was there were only two guns, and both of them were in the hands of the maniac.

I actually agree, would they feel so cocky and ballsy knowing everyone else could cap them ?

patrickolee

I've never seen a 'collage kid'... is that one made up of bits of other kids? :eek:

Pigman II

patrickolee wrote:

I've never seen a 'collage kid'... is that one made up of bits of other kids? :eek:

No but they're usually faily pasty.

Vokes

Shocking stuff

Also...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/6561335.stm

I'm from University College Dublin and now on exchange in Virginia Tech. A murderer on campus on our first day here is as bad as it could get, this is unbelievable. Find it hard to believe that 20 people can really be dead. Sitting in dorms right now, waiting for further news. People starting to be released, seems worst may be over.
Nicola, Ireland /Blacksburg, VA

Her first day! :eek:

projectmayhem

m83 wrote:

Projectmayhem and Mordeth show some decorum please. I don't think people are reading this thread for a larf.

can't speak for mordeth, but the comment wasn't a "larf", but more a comment on what we should expect from the media, laced in sarcasm.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

I was just out for a chuckle, and I'm not ashamed of the fact.

It is now, more than ever that we need laughter.

dead baby jokes anyone?

RobertFoster

Jack Thompson is already blaming video games. Will he call the new GTA a Blacksburg Simulator, or does it still have the title of Columbine Simulator?

MooseJam

Boston wrote:

Hmm, for a guy who on like he's 20th account here, you sure like to talk a lot of crap.

don't be rude

DaBreno

RobertFoster wrote:

Jack Thompson is already blaming video games. Will he call the new GTA a Blacksburg Simulator, or does it still have the title of Columbine Simulator?

Followed closely by Rock Music and the Internet. :mad:

Boston

TCP/IP Did it.

Smellyirishman

Mordeth wrote:

more guns, not less would have saved lives here.

What if there were no guns? Then perhaps nobody would have died.

With 2 guns (one for shooter, one for defender) then at least one person dies, likely two (as the shooter kills his first target before being killed himself). No guns would have definitely resulted in less damage.

Are you supporting wild-west shoot-outs in colleges?

Manic Moran

Better two than 30.

Now, what could have happened here...

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

From last year. Note the applicability to the same university.

Gun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.
By Greg Esposito
381-1675

A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.

The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, would not comment Monday because he was not part of the subcommittee that discussed the bill.

Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."

The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.

Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.

In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities

NTM

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

What if there were no guns? Then perhaps nobody would have died.

huh, so I guess the reason there's so much famine in africa is because they haven't got enough forks.

Manic Moran

Are you supporting wild-west shoot-outs in colleges?

Not at all. I wouldn't miss. (Shootouts in the Wild West were notorious for inaccuarcy, contrary to the movies).

A utopian answer of 'let's ban all guns' isn't going to work for three practical reasons.
1) There are too many out there, they'd never find them all.
2) Not everyone will obey the law. See also point 1.
3) Firearms serve a practical purpose in a country where, if you go camping in the woods, furry or scaly critters with big pointy teeth and sharp claws might decide you could be tasty.

Given the above, I would much rather have a sidearm and allow the possibility of defending myself as opposed to hoping I could outrun the bullet, that the other guy misses, or that he can't find whatever broom closet I'm cowering in. Unfortunately, I live in Santa Clara County, so my permit application was denied. I will not be a happy camper if I ever find myself in such a situation.

NTM

Smellyirishman

Mordeth wrote:

huh, so I guess the reason there's so much famine in africa is because they haven't got enough forks.

OK, what else would he have used?

Sure, there are other ways to do harm, but guns make it so much easier and people love easy.