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glass in a bar fight

patrickolee

Just wondered, in peoples opinion... is it always wrong to use a glass in a bar fight? And if someone uses a glass are they always in the wrong?

Thanks

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aidan_walsh

Do you mean is it legally wrong to use a weapon?

Do you really need that answered?

Really?

seamus

Are you asking in legal terms or in "What do you think terms"?

If it's the latter, I'll move it.

As best I know, in the event of a fight, or otherwise any action against your person, you must first attempt to flee. If you are unable to flee, then you may protect yourself, using force which is proportionate to the threat posed.

So if someone starts on you, picking up a glass could easily leave you charged with assault with a deadly weapon, GBH, serious assault causing harm, etc etc.

On the other hand, if someone is threatening you with a knife, and you manage to disarm them by smashing the glass on their hand, then a court may very well find that the response was resonable.

RuggieBear

i know a mate of a mate who got 3 years for smashing a glass off a fella's head. He was done GBH and some form of assault with a deadly weapon. That was in the UK.

MarkR

It's always wrong to stab people. There may be mitigating circumstances though. I wouldn't recommend it. I saw a girl accidentally get glassed in the face before, you don't want to see that.

Really, if you're stabbing someone you're intending to kill them. You're not zorro, it's unlikely you'll disarm someone with a deft flick of the wrist. It'll also probably escalate the fight and get others involved. Almost certainly you'd wind up in court. There are better ways to settle an argument.

information

RuggieBear wrote:

i know a mate of a mate who got 3 years for smashing a glass off a fella's head. He was done GBH and some form of assault with a deadly weapon. That was in the UK.

I know a guy who badly scarred a guys face with a glass and only got a €500 fine

cold_filter

Bring back the days when just fists were used

seamus

OK, I've moved this to After Hours.

That's the way the discussion was headed.

hullaballoo

It's pretty under-handed imo. I mean, bar-stools and table = ok, but glass is dangerous.

plonk

My mate was in a bar in galway paddys night and got a glass in the face, nearly lost an eye. Crazy. Its on camera though and theres a load of witnesses so its not too bad.

ScumLord

What if your wearing glasses and you headbut someone?

Karoma

ScumLord wrote:

What if your wearing glasses and you headbut someone?

Then you're an idiot.

MarkR

What he said. You'd wind up with an eyeball full of glass. AND broken glasses!

Plissken1

My mate got into a fight In Galway City. Three lads started on him, he opened one of the up with a bottle. It cost him roughly about 30k in the end to stay out of jail. He wishes that he had not stood and fought, and just legged it instead.

When I lived in London I saw a guy get glassed by the ICF (Inter City Firm), the bouncers did nothing because they were also ICF. I would not like to see it happen again because its not like the movies, its not pretty. I suppose the older you get the more you realise its best to walk away, or better still, not put yourself in that situation in the first place.

dodgyme

Everyone knows what a fair fight is. Two lads or wimmin around the same size and same number of pints (usually drinking with each other) kicking the crap outta each other til they get arrested and have the craic on the way to the cells. A fair fight is not one lad fightin some buck who has been doing marshall arts for 15 years, or picking up glasses of knives.

super_furry

It's a cowards tactic and one that would deservidly land you in jail.

patrickolee

Actually reason I ask, is a friend of mine, used a glass after he was set upon in a club...he was trapped at the back of a snug (ie nowwhere to run), panic'd and lashed out. He's 5ft4, weighs 8st and is not the kinda guy who goes looking for trouble. The other guy was 6ft something. Now he's up in court. Glass was already in his hand though, he didn't go off looking for it or anything. Split second thing, but not looking good.

Dragan

seamus wrote:

As best I know, in the event of a fight, or otherwise any action against your person, you must first attempt to flee. If you are unable to flee, then you may protect yourself, using force which is proportionate to the threat posed.

It's all about retaliation and self defence. The various manners you can assault someone are all broken up into different Section, and if you should be a victim to something then you can respond in kind, in an act of self defence.

Some forms are arrestable, some are not. Obviously it's all about the circumstances.

However, as this is after hours I will take it as a moral as oppossed to a legal question and simply say that if you need to use a glass then your a pussy.

Plissken1

It can come down to how good your solicitor is, which comes back to money again.

Dave!

patrickolee wrote:

Actually reason I ask, is a friend of mine, used a glass after he was set upon in a club...he was trapped at the back of a snug (ie nowwhere to run), panic'd and lashed out. He's 5ft4, weighs 8st and is not the kinda guy who goes looking for trouble. The other guy was 6ft something. Now he's up in court. Glass was already in his hand though, he didn't go off looking for it or anything. Split second thing, but not looking good.

Yeeshk that sounds bad.

I'd use a glass as a last resort, ie. someone jumped me and was trying to strangle me to death!

Other than that I'd use fists, elbows, knees, and head to defend myself. Hopefully it won't be necessary though, bar fights are not pleasant to witness, nevermind being involved.

patrickolee

He's on legal aid... but I think that should not make a difference. Barrister (and garda) says it's 50/50, but that generally when people (i.e. jury) hear about a glass involved don't like it and side against that person, regardless of the situ. Interesting to hear peoples opinions above seem to concur with that.

plonk

The problem is when your hammered, youve a glass in your hand and some1 starts a fight with you, you dont think oh I better put this glass down or some1 might get really hurt. Its a split second thing that people come to regret.

Dragan

patrickolee wrote:

He's on legal aid... but I think that should not make a difference. Barrister (and garda) says it's 50/50, but that generally when people (i.e. jury) hear about a glass involved don't like it and side against that person, regardless of the situ. Interesting to hear peoples opinions above seem to concur with that.

It's because it wasn't self defence from what i can gather. You didn't say the guy had hit your friend, or was assaulting him. Only that your friend was "chased by him and ran into a corner".....in a pub or a club, which is pretty stupid.

Was the guy in this pub/club on his own? We there any staff on or other customers?

beerbaron

Where did it happen ? on the street or in a night club ? Where there bouncers ?

r3nu4l

Hmm, in reality it's wrong unless you have no option and I certainly wouldn't like to do it because of the risk of jail. It just isn't fair or right.

In fantasy-land apply the following tough-guy rule: "if he puts one of yours in the hospital, you put two of his in the morgue.

By that reasoning a punch in the face from him deserves a glass in the face from you in return

Dragan

The simple fact is that a punch is a Section 2 assault, retaliating with a glass in the face is a Section 4 (iirc) and far more serious.

stovelid

seamus wrote:

So if someone starts on you, picking up a glass could easily leave you charged with assault with a deadly weapon, GBH, serious assault causing harm, etc etc.

Not to mention the fact that if you are not 100% prepared to use it, you could escalate the dispute by either making them arms themselves or take (and use) the glass from you.

OP, IMO unless you are facing serious danger, (like seamus mentioned) waving a glass around will end in tears.

edit: Sorry didn't read on. It looks bad especially if they were not actually severely beating him?

matt-dublin

plonk wrote:

My mate was in a bar in galway paddys night and got a glass in the face, nearly lost an eye. Crazy. Its on camera though and theres a load of witnesses so its not too bad.

was this a couple of years ago? if so i think i know who he is (the guy who got glassed)

Its never right to use a glass in a fight. Pure scum do it.
We got into a fight a few weeks ago, and out of the courner or my eye i saw two of the lads go off and get bottles. When they came back we caught the managed to get the bottles off them and threw them well out of harms way and sent the lads off home!

people only use glasses / bottles to be over threatening or in a fight they cant win

patrickolee

Happened in a crowded club. There was no chase, he was already in the corner. There were bouncers, but the whole thing would have happened in a split second. Didn't have time to think... he kept saying afterwards, 'I just wanted him to stop'

"You didn't say the guy had hit your friend, or was assaulting him" ...
Yes, the guy did hit him initially. A punch to the nose, although he denies it. But I know he did, cause I saw my friend 1/2 an hour later with his nose pumping blood and cut on the bridge.

The club was packed but no other witness came forward :-( He was on his own.

plonk

matt-dublin wrote:

was this a couple of years ago? if so i think i know who he is (the guy who got glassed)

No its was this year. But after he got glassed he managed to kick the crap out of him, which is a good thing I suppose but nothing in comparision to getting a pint glass in the face

Edit: So if you get a glass in the face whats a legitimate retaliation?

Karoma

It doesn't look good. The threat of impending violence is grounds for self defence, but you'd need witnesses to the event to back him up. And a few character witnesses to confirm that "he's not the sort to go looking for trouble."
He used a weapon in a fight against an unarmed guy... not good.