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Child Item

The uselessness of the gardai

Rudolph Claus

Anyone else starting to think the guards are completely useless regards dealing with crime. Anyone else of the opinion that they are just lazy and try to avoid having to deal with a lot of whats regarded as petty crime or minor crimes, as the guards and polititions like to call it.

Some examples:
In my local town (Drogheda), there was a carnival for St.Patricks day, set up literally in the carpark surrounding the guarda station. The station literally overlooks the carpark and you could fly a paper aeroplane from the carpark to the carnival and vice versa. Anyway, my little cousin was at this with her friends and had to call her parents to be brought home early cause they were scared of all the trouble going on.
There was a gang of chavs going around attacking kids at random. There appears to have been a load of such incidents in the carnivals grounds according to my cousin. The more serious incidents made the local paper which were as follows:
Also not in the carnival but near the McDonalds(again can be seen from the garda station so ye see how close it is) a 14yr old lad was kicked unconscious and was finally rescued. There was a gang of 40youths hanging arund and 18 of them or so surrounded the lad and attacked him.

When the lads dad went to the garda station to report this a seperate incident was taking place outside the garda station where a group of chavs were attacking another young lad. This lad ran into the garda station to escape and 1 scumbag followed him i nand kept up the attack in the garda stations lobby itself.

The gardas should have been patrolling the Carnival and not have been waiting to be called. Surely they have the brains/commom sense to predict theres gonna be some trouble at this on St. Paddys day and actually get off their asses and do something.

Patrolling in a car is useless in these events, they should be walking around in pairs or whatever or at least cycling. Lazy, useless shower of numpty`s.

Moving on from the Drogheda issues to all other areas, has anyone noticed the sheer surge in carcrime. I dont know if any of ye are members of car sites/forums in this country but the amount of cars being stolen and robbed of is getting very very serious. When the guards are called they just dont want to know. Even in a few cases where knives were produced the guards did not seem to prioritise or treat these incidents any more seriously. Some of ye also might be aware of the skangers that are on a "Honda civic" robbing spree in Cork and had bebo bragging sites set-up with their car burning pictures, vids, etc. I posted these links up a few weeks ago i think. A few of my friends at college have had their cars broken into, and 2 cars actually stolen in the last 2 months alone and i know personally of a few incidents involving folk i know of. My point is we seem to be hearing and seeing more and more of this type of crime lately and nothing is being done.

There are scumbags allowed to knock up over a 100 convictions in this country and still remain free to tally up some more? The punishment is an absolute joke.

I reckon the main problem here is the non existance of proper garda patrolling and acting as deterrants. Also, their complete lack of interest when they are called for these crimes doesnt exactly help.

Anyone got any views on this?

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Dyr

I wasnt saying it doesnt happen but ive never seen it, hell i've had bottles put through my living room window. Also once saw a female (shh ban)garda completely lose it with some scummer and start a screaming match off, offering him and his mate their go. Apparently she was incensed that he'd claimed she was responsible for something her colleagues had done to him. Very unprofessional behaviour and when her male colleague came to extract her, he looked mortified at her hysterics. He kind of stood off to one side looking away going "c'mon brigid* c'mon, leave it"

*not actual name

$Photo of \m/_(>_<)_\m/$ \m/_(>_<)_\m/

Bambi wrote:

sweet zombie jesus, you're complaining that they have to establish a case against someone to prove their guilty? thats what we pay them to do.

isn't that type of attitude unbilevable...

these are the people who say the guards a doing a fine job...

yes they are doing a great job... that's if you don't expect them to "have proof that this is in fact the person who committed the crime." because that's not in their job descriptions...

Sweet zombie jesus is right, i have never read such idiotic posts,
and yes I'm attacking the post not the poster

event

Bambi wrote:

really, and is that theory backed up by anything other than assumption? I'm from ballymun and i can't say i ever saw a garda car, fire brigade or ambulance being stoned. Saw a maria nearly hit with a tin of emulsion but that was it. The reason that they dont show up because the higher ranks in the gardai have different standards of what is an acceptable level of anti social behaviour in an area. Ballymun gardai station is only an outpost of santry with a small number of gardai for a large population. Some of 'em are decent types struggling against the odds and some of 'em are complete **** in my experience.

well i have a mate who is stationed in ballymun and a while ago they responded to a call of a robbery. The female garda with him was hit in the face with a brick that came through her side window

oh, and there was no robbery either

BTW, i dont mean all of ballymun like, just certain parts of it

Dyr

foinse wrote:

The only time you won't be trialled by your peers is when you have already admitted guilt. The whole point of a jury is to decide whether the suspect is guilty or not based on the evidence given by the gardai and the testimonies given in court.

You'll never be trialled by your peers, you might be tried by them however. Anywhoo i take it you've never heard of the Special Criminal Court?

source

Bambi wrote:

sweet zombie jesus, you're complaining that they have to establish a case against someone to prove their guilty? thats what we pay them to do.

I'm not complaining about it, i was pointing out to \m/_(>_<)_\m/ who said

and this is what we are talking about here, they don't detect and arrest, therefor people continue on with this behaviour, guards do nothing, they continue to commit crime, guard do nothing, see the pattern

why it is so hard to arrest people who make places high risk for the gardai to enter, ie because the gardai have to prove who it was that was throwing stones, rocks washing machines, or whatever at them, before they can go and arrest them.

source

The only time you won't be trialled by your peers is when you have already admitted guilt. The whole point of a jury is to decide whether the suspect is guilty or not based on the evidence given by the gardai and the testimonies given in court.

Dyr

foinse wrote:

Also the burdon of proof is on the gardai, so they might know very well who the crim is but cannot do anything about it unless they have proof that this is in fact the person who committed the crime.

sweet zombie jesus, you're complaining that they have to establish a case against someone to prove their guilty? thats what we pay them to do.

Dyr

The gardai have beaucoup powers to enforce the law already. Our governments response to everything on this issue is to erode civil liberties further. You can go to jail on the word of a garda alone. you can foregt about being tried by your peers in many circumstances, Your right to silence is becoming a notion. Your right to free assembly went to the wall a few years back.

I want law and order so us ordinary joes can enjoy our civil liberties rather than curtailing those liberties to give us the illusion of law and order

source

Okay \m/_(>_<)_\m/, If you have something bad to say, why not try and do it in a constructive way, what are the solutions to the problems you say there are???

Here's some of my suggestions to the problems you're seeing and reasons they haven't been implemented.

1,More gardai on the street???? not an issue for the gardai, this is actually an issue for the gov't they have to put their hand in their pocket for this one to work, and they're too busy spending it on tribunals.

2,Higher police presence in these trouble areas??? see point 1

3,Tougher policing procedures and policies??? Outcry from the indymedia set and bleeding heart liberals, about breach of civil rights, the gov't want to get back into office next term, and this would mean a loss of votes.

Remember the gardai's policies cannot be changed without law being implemented to back up new powers and procedures. The gardai are not the ones who make these laws but rather enforce them. Also the burdon of proof is on the gardai, so they might know very well who the crim is but cannot do anything about it unless they have proof that this is in fact the person who committed the crime.

$Photo of \m/_(>_<)_\m/$ \m/_(>_<)_\m/

foinse wrote:

The hostile enviroment is not a product of bad policing,

WHAT, are you for real... of course it is

foinse wrote:

rather a product of anti social behaviour and people who just don't five a flying f*ck about anything or anyone, and don't care who they hurt, kill or steal from.

hers is a novel idea, why not catch these people...
well after all, if one comments a crime, isn't it the policies job to detect and arrest, ( leave the court's out of this for the moment).

and this is what we are talking about here, they don't detect and arrest, therefor people continue on with this behaviour, guards do nothing, they continue to commit crime, guard do nothing, see the pattern

do ya think Rudy Giuliani took that approach in New York...
ah sure it a no go area so we will leave it.
Ya, that's how he almost halved the street crime in these "hostile environment"

Get real, other cities who have faced up to the problem of bad policing have cleaned up the streets, why cant we...

ill tell ya why......Because first we have to admit we have a problem, not stick our heads in the ground and say everything is fine....like we are doing in this country.

pathetic really

Dyr

event wrote:

thats true

mainly, because if they go into ballymun, more than likely their cars will be stoned.

bit like the way fire brigades and ambulances are

really, and is that theory backed up by anything other than assumption? I'm from ballymun and i can't say i ever saw a garda car, fire brigade or ambulance being stoned. Saw a maria nearly hit with a tin of emulsion but that was it. The reason that they dont show up because the higher ranks in the gardai have different standards of what is an acceptable level of anti social behaviour in an area. Ballymun gardai station is only an outpost of santry with a small number of gardai for a large population. Some of 'em are decent types struggling against the odds and some of 'em are complete **** in my experience.

source

The hostile enviroment is not a product of bad policing, rather a product of anti social behaviour and people who just don't five a flying f*ck about anything or anyone, and don't care who they hurt, kill or steal from. They didn't get that way through bad policing, they got that way through bad parenting, and no awareness of the social responsibilities that every other person seem to be able to grasp.

edit: one other point, it also would appear that 9 times out of 10 if you ask a scumbag why they don't like the gardai, the will either tell you to f*ck off or tell you it is because they keep hasseling them, ie not leaving them get on with their illegal business.

$Photo of \m/_(>_<)_\m/$ \m/_(>_<)_\m/

foinse wrote:

good point event, something i hadn't thought of, they do their best in a tough and often hostile enviroment.\m/_(>_<)_\m/ if you know anyone in the gardai or even just lie and say you're thinking of applying and ask if you can get a ridealong some night and see the work the gardai do and the crap they have to put up with.

on the hostile environment thing....
that is the result OF bad policing, not and excuse FOR bad policing.

and yes they do have to put up with crap, from drunk young fella acting the maggot after the pub....
while the much more serious murders, rapes, and drug dealing take place else where undetected and unsolved...

so ya big shout out for the brave gardai,

you have nailed it, thank you.

source

event wrote:

thats true

mainly, because if they go into ballymun, more than likely their cars will be stoned.

bit like the way fire brigades and ambulances are

good point event, something i hadn't thought of, they do their best in a tough and often hostile enviroment.\m/_(>_<)_\m/ if you know anyone in the gardai or even just lie and say you're thinking of applying and ask if you can get a ridealong some night and see the work the gardai do and the crap they have to put up with.

event

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

that is incorrect, the area you live in determines how fast they arrive..

house burgled in Howth they might arrive in 15 min...flat in Ballymun... they may not arrive at all. FACT

thats true

mainly, because if they go into ballymun, more than likely their cars will be stoned.

bit like the way fire brigades and ambulances are

source

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

that is incorrect, the area you live in determines how fast they arrive..

house burgled in Howth they might arrive in 15 min...flat in Ballymun... they may not arrive at all. FACT

well i don't live in Howth or Ballymun, i do however live in Limerick, and i know for a fact that the gardai respond to all crimes, on a basis of when they have someone available to deal with the situation.

I was at a house party in O'malley park (similar type area to ballymun)with a mate and his car got broken into, the gardai were there in minutes, why???? because they were just around the corner dealing with another call, area does not dictate speed of response, what does, is how busy the shift is for the gardai, staffing, and whether all units are tied up with a major crime.

source

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

and that is the guards attitude as well....

no it's not, they have appraisals every month or few months not sure which, where their arrest figures are used to judge their performance, so they care more than anyone whether the crims are caught or not, cause it all goes towards their prospects for promotion and salary increases.

edit: correcting typo

$Photo of \m/_(>_<)_\m/$ \m/_(>_<)_\m/

foinse wrote:

that is why there is a free phone number for emergencies 999, if you call it they will come,and damn fast too i must say.

that is incorrect, the area you live in determines how fast they arrive..

house burgled in Howth they might arrive in 15 min...flat in Ballymun... they may not arrive at all. FACT

$Photo of \m/_(>_<)_\m/$ \m/_(>_<)_\m/

foinse wrote:

it doesn't matter if they are caught or not,

and that is the guards attitude as well....

source

Nuttzy wrote:

Ehhhh, i didnt say that you could see a row going on from within the garda station, i used that reference to show how close the station is to the McDonalds, hardly a patrol car trip away now is it.

The gardai do not sit in the station waiting for crimes to happen on their doorstep, they tend to be out patrolling the rest of their district, i've said this already, there will often be only 2 or 3 gardai in a station at any one time, one will be at the front desk and the other will be the custody sergent, then what ever few gardai just happen to be there dropping off prisoners, and someone on the radio if they're not working off a central control, all of these people doing very important jobs. They can't just drop this to go deal with a fight where they will probably be hospitalised, and that is if they see it.

Again i said this earlier in the thread, the gardai in the station do not sit around looking out the window waiting for a crime to happen there, that is why there is a free phone number for emergencies 999, if you call it they will come,and damn fast too i must say.

source

Saintly wrote:

then adequate bullet proof jackets (long promised, unlikely to arrive until a guard is killed) and decent secure radio communication systems.

These are already being worn by members in Limerick and Dublin and are being rolled out to the rest of the force, will stop knife, 9mm and shotgun.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

prevent petty crime..... any chance they could look at preventing serious crime so. because they are doing nether.

but i suppose that all media hype as well is it.

the spiraling crime figures are all due to the bad media coverage the poor ould guards get...

The do prevent serious crime, but there are only so many of them and they can't be everywhere at once and no the media are not responsible for the crime stats, the criminals are, it doesn't matter if they are caught or not, those stats show the amount of crimes reported to the gardai, so what you need to look at is the detection rates, and look to that to see that work the gardai are doing.

$Photo of \m/_(>_<)_\m/$ \m/_(>_<)_\m/

muppetkiller wrote:

..They don't have the presence that they need to prevent petty crime.

prevent petty crime..... any chance they could look at preventing serious crime so. because they are doing nether.

but i suppose that all media hype as well is it.

the spiraling crime figures are all due to the bad media coverage the poor ould guards get...

Saintly

JayRoc wrote:

Why in god's name would the common garda on the street need to carry "heavy weapons"?
I can't recall hearing of any criminals, scrupulous or not, shooting a uniformed garda (or any garda for that matter) in over ten years.
TEN YEARS.
Hardly South Compton, now is it? :rolleyes:
Let's keep some perspective, shall we?

It's been over six months since I worked in a Dublin hospital - but the amount of shootings when I left were frightening, particularly around the Crumlin region - people taking potshots on a Sunday afternoon in busy residential areas, I remember one poor chap who was shot following mistaken identity. More and more young criminals are carrying weapons. There is certainly a growing argument for increased protection for gardai - who tend to be first on the scene - if not for increased gun patrols, then adequate bullet proof jackets (long promised, unlikely to arrive until a guard is killed) and decent secure radio communication systems.

As for everything else, I personally think policing and policing systems in Ireland requires a huge overhaul. I've worked with the gardai on various issues in the past. Have worked with some lovely people but communication and communication systems are appalling. Pulse is a joke - some of the info I receive is so outdated - I have to wait to talk to PJ after his week off because the info is in his little black book etc. There are just systemic issues that seem to make the gardai inefficient, in daily duties. I completely agree that the judicial system needs a huge overhaul. Guards could spend eight hours of the day hanging around a courtroom waiting to give twenty minutes worth of evidence. Two or three guards off the same shift could wind up in court on the same day, therefore fewer left at the station etc... overhaul, overhaul, overhaul.

By the way, have been out of the country during the whole reserve recruit drive. Does anyone know any reserves - have they started - whats their feedback etc?

Saintly

Kernel

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

laughable really,
do the same ould few really think that the majority of the population are all wrong... if so, they are as out of touch are the rest of the guards who think they are doing a "fine job":rolleyes:

What are you on about? all the surveys conducted in recent years have shown a massive amount of public support for the Gardaí. Last approval ratings heard was 83% pubilc satisfaction. Extremely impressive considering the amount of the public who would have been cautioned by Gardaí.

http://www.justice.ie/80256E01003A02CF/vWeb/pcJUSQ67NKDU-en
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2005/09/10/story474833792.asp
http://www.garda.ie/angarda/press/2005/p14sepb2005.html

:rolleyes:

JayRoc wrote:

Why in god's name would the common garda on the street need to carry "heavy weapons"?
I can't recall hearing of any criminals, scrupulous or not, shooting a uniformed garda (or any garda for that matter) in over ten years.
TEN YEARS.
Hardly South Compton, now is it?
Let's keep some perspective, shall we?

While the principal of your statement is fairly valid and worthy of debate, there have been Gardaí shot over the last 10 years. A sergeant was recently shot in Crumlin while in uniform, in a driveby incident involving a single barrell shotgun. Reportedly for a 'dare'.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0928/crumlin.html

It happens from time to time, there are many who have suffered injuries, but thankfully not as many fatalities. Many have been shot at with all kinds of things, not to mention stabbed, sliced, run over with cars and beaten - simply for wearing the uniform and ensuring public order in this country.

Remember a gun in the hands of a Garda is a tool of defence, it doesn't necessarily only become practical if the aggressor himself has a gun. Someone attacking you with a samurai sword or a hatchet can be just as deadly.

RoyalMarine

ethernet wrote:

Well if millions weren't wasted on e-voting machines, we could aim to give water cannons to every station in the country to deal with this and spray them with our contaminated, Galway water.

wouldnt mind seeing that. water cannons would be a right laff outside a nite club... first little scumbag to throw a punch gets hosed against a wall at 60 mph.

entertainment while you eat your chips.

ethernet

RoyalMarineComm wrote:

and what are 3 guards going to do against a gang of 18 - 40 people?

Well if millions weren't wasted on e-voting machines, we could aim to give water cannons to every station in the country to deal with this and spray them with our contaminated, Galway water.

RoyalMarine

and what are 3 guards going to do against a gang of 18 - 40 people?

as said proviously they only have battons. and not all of them actually have them.

i vote the guards be armed and allowed to use more "force".
im sure that gang of 18 - 40 people woul easily run away if a few cops came over with guns and shot a few up in the air.

probably do all them little bastards a lesson. then again, its not the guards fault they did it. its their parents for not parenting them correctly.
the guards can only do so much.

dont forget, they have families aswel. they cant be running into a gang of drunken runts trying to save some fella from getting his head kicked in. why? because they will get their heads kicked in aswel. whats the point in that.

as for the fella above who got stopped for no seat belt, well fair play to the cop who stopped you.
dont play nieve and say you didnt know the rule. its not hard to remember to put a seat belt on when you get into a car... on that matter, its not hard to keep your speed correct to the oh so many millions of sign posts all around the country.

if you pass a sign that says 50 kmph, believe it or not, thats the limit.... its not hard to forget. if you do, then you shouldnt be driving a car at all.

Rudolph Claus

im sorry thats a lie

you can see the mcdonalds from the station yeah, but you couldnt see if there was a row or anything in it. It over the river FFS

Ehhhh, i didnt say that you could see a row going on from within the garda station, i used that reference to show how close the station is to the McDonalds, hardly a patrol car trip away now is it.

And if the garda had of been patrolling/strolling around the carnival then they would clearly have seen and heard the commotion over at McDonalds and heard people screaming at the skangers to "stop before they kill him".

event

Nuttzy wrote:

Also not in the carnival but near the McDonalds(again can be seen from the garda station so ye see how close it is) a 14yr old lad was kicked unconscious and was finally rescued. There was a gang of 40youths hanging arund and 18 of them or so surrounded the lad and attacked him.

im sorry thats a lie

you can see the mcdonalds from the station yeah, but you couldnt see if there was a row or anything in it. It over the river FFS

bookiebasher wrote:

ah lads the guards are great...I was stopped going to work and ended up in court for not wearing a seatbelt...I owe my life to this great guard.

so you wree breaking the law and got caught?

boo-hoo

Cozmo wrote:

And when my freind threw a rock at a car the garda show up 5 minute's later. They dont give a **** about anyone under 18, they think wre just prank calling or whatever.

OMG!!! SRSLY!!!

OH NOES

your friend threw a rock at a car and the gardai showed up?
how dare they, you should go to the minister with that, thats not on

muppetkiller

The simple fact is they do a great job for the resources and restricions that they have to put up with. Not to mention rubbish wages (My brother is one)
We need about 5-10 times the number of Gardai we currently have on the streets..They don't have the presence that they need to prevent petty crime.