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Election 2007

Stephen

They apparently don't allow polls on the politics board (including the general election 2007 subforum), so that's why I'm posting this here. Mods, please could you not move it, lest it gets locked over on politics?

Which party do you plan to give your 1st preference vote to in the coming election?

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randomname2005

Probably not going to vote - as the REM song says, withdrawal in disgust is NOT the same as apathy.

FF/PDs: had lots of money to make the country great and failed. Miserably.
FG/Labour: don't seem to have any understanding of economics which will be needed as things get though.
Green: want to use the health service to pay for homeopathy and such like quackery (to quote somebody on The Right Hook)
SF: not a chance!
Socialist: While I agree with some of what they say, I dont agree with enough of it.

Maybe if there are a few good independent candidates I will give them a vote but they would have to be very good.

R

darkman2

I can only say one thing about Sinn Fein

Any party that thinks nationalising the banks is a good idea need their heads examined. Go to Venuzeula where they are having a great time doing that atm! Then return in 5 years time and see what kind of a country that will be then. SF policies are so insane that they are more to pittied then laughed at tbh.

constitutionus

darkman2 wrote:

I can only say one thing about Sinn Fein

Any party that thinks nationalising the banks is a good idea need their heads examined. Go to Venuzeula where they are having a great time doing that atm! Then return in 5 years time and see what kind of a country that will be then. SF policies are so insane that they are more to pittied then laughed at tbh.

as opposed to the sterling bastions we have at the moment that make near 4 billion a year in profit yet embark on jobs cuts and diluting working terms and condidtions? the banks have turned into parasitical entities in this country and while i wouldnt want to see wholesale nationalisation i wouldnt mind having the choice of a national bank owned by the state to do business with instead. if the others are so great they should be able to compete, if not then maybe finally theyll start sorting out all the scams they have going on in the financial sector designed to screw as much out of their customers as they can. FFS I work in the financial sector, i can send 1000 euro to china and it'll be there in 20 minutes. why the hell does it still take a working week to clear a cheque?

theres alot of people in this country that wouldnt mind seeing a little of the democracy thats going on in venuzeula happen here. at least they HOLD their presidential elections!

Jonny Arson

1. Labour
2. Green Party
3. Fine Gael

This is the General Election you want to lose because whoever is in charge is going to have to deal with the mess that FF/PDs have made particularly over the past 5 years that is in the process/about to bite our society and our economy up the ass and that inevitiably means very few election promises will be kept by whoever is elected. However, I have trust in the Rainbow to do a more competent job of fixing this country than our current bunch of idiots even if it will see them gone in 2012.... they are the only option for this country.

NekkidBibleMan wrote:

Went for Bertie myself, because really, who's going to do any better?

Anyone who isn't Bertie Ahern or associated with Fianna ''Bunch of Corrupt Incompetent ****wits'' Fail or Progressive ''Lets Make The Rich Richer!'' Democrats.

stepbar

Ah yes, a state bank so Sinn Fein and all their supporters can do business with. Would be handy for the proceeds of the odd bank robbery and the like.

Seriously if you think Fianna Fail are bad, Sinn Fein are ten times worse. Sinn Fein are bad for Ireland Inc, they would rather see the big American Corporations **** off out of this country. And yet, Sinn Fein's money raising activities concentrate on the many Irish Americans, who have made their fortunes the other side of the atlantic. A touch contradictory hmmm?

GuanYin

Can't understand people not voting. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't vote you have no right to complain after the election/

The election shortly after the mayday riots in Dublin was a real eye-opener for me.

If half the people who were up in arms over that whole thing had voted, we would have had a very different government.

Unfortunately, with the gen-xers of Ireland, apathy rules

By the way, can overseas residents vote by proxy?

miju

stepbar wrote:

Seriously if you think Fianna Fail are bad, Sinn Fein are ten times worse.

all i know if fianna failure have done severe damage to this countries economy for at least the next 5-6 years if not longer

stepbar wrote:

Sinn Fein are bad for Ireland Inc, they would rather see the big American Corporations **** off out of this country.

oh really??? so is this in their manifesto or did gerry or someone similiar say it or are you just talking out of your ass :rolleyes:

darkman2

Which Sinn Fein TD's wife was taken into custody last year for being disorderly on the street. What was it she said to that Garda. Oh yes I remember -

'You will get whats coming to you for arresting a SF TD's wife!'

People need to take their heads out of their arse in relation to this 'party'. The working classes are voting for them because their promising them this socialist/marxist uptopia where everyone is 'equal' (they like using that word) They also have great support among the scumbag element in estates around town. Oh and dont come on and say 'ohhhh its not politically correct to say that!' I dont give a sh*te tbh because its true.

This is the same 'party' that wanted to start a debate in the Dail claiming that -

now for all of you that have enjoyed the benefits of your house price rocketing wait till you here this!

- Private property is bad

'Private property is a means of oppression in Ireland' Do you believe this! Not even Fidel Castro would actually dream of telling every Cuban they have no right to private property:D I dont know whether to laugh or cry.

I listened to Gerry Adams talking about the amount of money we have now and how they would use it - one problem though. If SF where in power now we wouldnt even have that money! Every single multi-national company that matters here would be gone within months! 'Equally poor' I think should be the SF mantra here.

I could go on and on but this is perhaps the most important thing that has been completely overlooked by Irish people in relation to this 'democratic party'. Do you remember what Isreal done to Lebanon because it had a minority in government connected to terrorist activities? What do you think would happen if during a coalition with SF a bomb went off in London or Belfast and the IRA claimed responsibility. The only reason the British didnt do anything in the past was because SF where never part of government here. If that changes, mark my words, if something goes wrong our national security is at serious risk. Which is why they cannot be in government IMO. You cant trust terrorists and scumbags who rob banks. Now that would be a risk that IMO is too great for this country to take. We leave ourselves very vunerable if something happened during a coalition government. The other parties in the Dail know this and they are not saying it. Bertie knows what the risk is. He will not go into government with SF for more then economic reasons.

A Dub in Glasgo

psi wrote:

By the way, can overseas residents vote by proxy?

No. You need to be a resident in the Republic

ballooba

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

No. You need to be a resident in the Republic

You could be overseas and still resident. I think the above person meant people abroad at time of polling. Not necessarily non-residents.

constitutionus

psi wrote:

By the way, can overseas residents vote by proxy?

dont think so, not unless your in the defense forces. they get a proxy vote cause theyre stationed abroad and as such cant get to the booth. everyone else if ****ed. hell its been taken as a given that alot of college people cant vote depending on the day of election because they wont be in their home town/ village.

bertie could sort that by holding the election on a weekend but wont. wonderfull little democracy we have isnt it?

A Dub in Glasgo

Overseas voters

If you are an Irish citizen living abroad you cannot be entered on the Register of electors. This means that you cannot vote in an election or referendum here in Ireland. (The only exception to this is in the case of Irish officials on duty abroad (and their spouses) who may register on the postal voters list).

To be eligible to be included on the Register of Electors, you must:

* be at least 18 years old on the day the Register comes into force (15 February)
* have been ordinarily resident in the State on 1 September in the year preceding the coming into force of the Register

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/government-in-ireland/elections-and-referenda/voting/registering-to-vote

There are circumstances where you can use a postal vote although the date is probably gone to use that method

K-9

partholon wrote:

while macrevy got it to 12.5% in fairness it was the rainbow gov that started the process bringing in down from 40%(?) with the stated aim of getting it to below 20 at some stage. they probably wouldve lowered it to at least 18 if they stayed in power but the people decided to get lab back for stabbing em in the chest over sharing power with FF , which ironically led to FF and the PDs getting in in the first place.

it is worth pointing out that this is where the idea of LAB as a "high tax" party comes from as they didnt want to set it as less than 16-17%. on the surface weve benefited from it but europe and america arent happy about how low our corpo rate is, the latter labling us a tax haven and is already taking steps to repatriate its revenue. apparently we go through more american tax money than the caymen islands plus its now biting us in the arse as the accession countries are doing the same and citing us as a precedent. considering how much cheaper they are we cant compete with that.

which brings me back to why im voting for the parties i mentioned already. FF , LAB , PD, and FG are all looking to the multinationals for jobs and while weve done well out of that its now not a question of wheather but when they'll go. what ever else you can say about SF and the GREENS theyve been harping on about indigenous businness for over a decade while the gov have let it stagnate. the mainstream parties just dont get it yet when even the bloody schoolkids do. look at the points system , in my day the highest rated course was computer science, now its medicine. a public sector job. says it all about how kids feel about the future.

I think the CT debate is nit-picking as I think there was/is general support for it though I'm sure there was opposition politically at various times. On Lab being punished in 97 for going into govt. with FF in 92, probably part of it. Bringing down the Govt. over the Brendan Smyth affair however regrettable, and probably getting the party of change vote in 92 being big parts too. They haven't got back to that level so I'm sure they're still not being punished for that. The idea of Lab being high tax predates CT. Goes back to the 80's and probably the 70's as well as internationally Lab are classified as High tax, correctly or not.

On the the accession countries following low CT, shows the Govt. did something right. Immitation is the best form of flattery

Victims of our own success including the American and German/UK/France reaction. The move to low CT was available for every country.

Ireland is a victim of our success to. We now face different challenges now that we are a rich country, the global market being one of them. A recession or slow down is inevitable no matter the Govt. The amazing thing was Irelands boom in the 90's /00's when Europe was generally in recession.

On SF, Gerry Adams will need to brush up on Southern Politics looking at his performance on Prime Time recently. He's at a disadvantage not being a candidate in the Republic. Also even he looks uncomfortable defending increases in CT, nationalisation etc. when he's questioned about it. If/when they are in Govt.they will face responsibilities and decision making just the same as other parties and it will be interesting to see what economic policies of their own they try to enact.

I still think the best party in recession is FF. It's not based on affiliation but on track record. McSharry in 87, after FG/Lab pontificating about it and doing nothing when they they where in power and again in 02/03. You could say they hoodwinked the electorate in 02 over the economy but they took the hard decisions at the time after it. Cowan's budgets have been criticised for being too conservative/prudent. Now the money is there they are trying to make the country more socially equitable e.g. Old age pension, social welfare increases, No tax on a high minimum wage etc. The Health system is the nut to crack but no party is going to fix it by tinkering with it and no party is going to say higher taxes in order to have a better health system, it would be electoral disaster. As with our infrastructure this process takes time.

stepbar

miju wrote:

all i know if fianna failure have done severe damage to this countries economy for at least the next 5-6 years if not longer

Not defending Fianna Fail, but if you think Sinn Fein would create a more just society well I think you are the one talking out of your ass.

miju wrote:

oh really??? so is this in their manifesto or did gerry or someone similiar say it or are you just talking out of your ass :rolleyes:

I believe its under the part where they mention a raise in Corporation Tax..... So that tells me Sinn Fein are effectively telling the big corporations to **** off. Lets be honest what business if going to stay here once Sinn Fein get their hands on the economy?

is_that_so

Seanies32 wrote:

McSharry in 87

Ever hear of the Tallaght Strategy? That was the main reason he was in a position to do so.
No problems with people voicing thought out opinions but at least get the history right. Sweeping generalisations do your argument no favours.

constitutionus

stepbar wrote:

Not defending Fianna Fail, but if you think Sinn Fein would create a more just society well I think you are the one talking out of your ass.

I believe its under the part where they mention a raise in Corporation Tax..... So that tells me Sinn Fein are effectively telling the big corporations to **** off. Lets be honest what business if going to stay here once Sinn Fein get their hands on the economy?

approximately the same thanks to bertie kow towing to public sector unions and pricing us out of the market with "benchmarking" :rolleyes:

the multinationals are going anyway. get used to it. whoevers in power next year will have to deal with that and FF and the PDs dont have any other ideas. the governements biggest fear now is they always played the economy card and now its ****ed, so theyre scared wittless people will change them cause the next lot couldnt be any worse a shower than them so they dont mind giving em a chance .

stepbar

is_that_so wrote:

Ever hear of the Tallaght Strategy? That was the main reason he was in a position to do so.
No problems with people voicing thought out opinions but at least get the history right. Sweeping generalisations do your argument no favours.

I was waiting for someone to mention that. So really you can thank Fine Gael for the prosperity in this country and thank Fianna Fail for price of houses.....

nesf

is_that_so wrote:

Ever hear of the Tallaght Strategy?

A fine example of common sense in politics. Few sensible people credit only FF in turning around that recession, but it could be argued that, from a political point of view, it was better for FG to "not oppose" than it would have been for them to push for the policy themselves. Though, that's splitting hairs tbh.

InFront

randomname2005 wrote:

Probably not going to vote - as the REM song says, withdrawal in disgust is NOT the same as apathy.

Can I ask, what disgusts you? There are people in other countries that are so disgusted with their government that they lose their lives to change it, what disgusts you so much about the Irish Government that you wouldn't vote for any of the parties, or independent candidates???

miju

darkman2 wrote:

Which Sinn Fein TD's wife was taken into custody last year for being disorderly on the street. What was it she said to that Garda. Oh yes I remember -

'You will get whats coming to you for arresting a SF TD's wife!'

i'd take that TD and his wife over one who sends out letters supporting the release of sex offenders ala fianna fail

darkman2 wrote:

The working classes are voting for them because their promising them this socialist/marxist uptopia where everyone is 'equal'

no they get votes from the working class areas because they are visible all the time working in the community not just in the run up to the elections

stepbar

constitutionus wrote:

approximately the same thanks to bertie kow towing to public sector unions and pricing us out of the market with "benchmarking" :rolleyes:

Do you actually know what benchmarking represents?

constitutionus wrote:

the multinationals are going anyway. get used to it. whoevers in power next year will have to deal with that and FF and the PDs dont have any other ideas. the governements biggest fear now is they always played the economy card and now its ****ed, so theyre scared wittless people will change them cause the next lot couldnt be any worse a shower than them so they dont mind giving em a chance .

Well expect them to go in their droves the day Sinn Fein gets into power.

stepbar

miju wrote:

no they get votes from the working class areas because they are visible all the time working in the community not just in the run up to the elections

Of course, the most vulnerable in society. Lots of votes to pick up there. And of course the money is there to ensure that enough propaganda is banted around to keep the votes rolling in. Where it's comes from, who knows. Its no wonder CAB are investigating a number of their "so called" members.

nesf

Lads, calm it down a little. If yee really want to argue the merits of SF as a political party, take it to Politics. We don't need such bickering here.

K-9

is_that_so wrote:

Ever hear of the Tallaght Strategy? That was the main reason he was in a position to do so.
No problems with people voicing thought out opinions but at least get the history right. Sweeping generalisations do your argument no favours.

Of course Dukes takes some credit for supporting the decision that was taken of Govt. at the time. Look what thanks he got for it from his own party!:)

Constitionus - So benchmarking was soully the Govts. fault. What about the TU's. There are plenty of unions, Nurses, SIPTU willing to use politics in the run up to the election as a politic issue. They have as much to blame with the Health Service as the Govt.

And of course the Multi-nationals are leaving tho not in their droves. Increase CT and see how quicker they leave. Just goes to show that what worked 10/15 years ago isn't going to work now.

Miju - that's a cheap shot. Many politicians at the time said they have sent letters in cases similar to that unbeknownst to them. Every party is guilty of it. How about SF and the Gd. McCabe killers. The IRA denounced them at the time and said it wasn't IRA sanctioned yet a few years later SF are looking for the release of the same people.

Bye the way, Haughey deserves no credit. Before the revisionism came in the accepted happening of events at the time was that McSharry threatened to resign if the cutbacks wheren't brought in. Haughey knew the Minority Govt. would collapse if his Min. for Fin. resigned so he had no choice. A great piece of principled yet political manoeuvring by McSharry just as Alan Dukes!

K-9

Anyway, going back to the poll, looks like a FG/Lab/Greens maybe PD's as well depending on the seats and PR. Or maybe FF/Lab/Greens.

Goes to show u u can't believe opinion polls

Will probably come down to hundreds of votes and who gets the 4th and 5th seats in constituencies which is often a lottery and depends on who is eliminated first or what surplus is distributed first. FF and PD's where beneficiaries last time, with a small increase in vote share. I still can't see where the rainbow are going to gain 50% (25 to 27 ) seats and FF/PD's lose 20 (25%) . Calculators out to see what the combination is going to be

nesf

Seanies32 wrote:

Goes to show u u can't believe opinion polls

Well the sample from this pole (i.e. AH posters) is very different to an accurate sample of the population as a whole tbh.

ballooba

Yep, I wouldn't know where to start with the flaws in this poll.

K-9

Then again FG lost 5% of the vote last time but lost 23 or about 40% of their seats so I suppose the same could well happen to FF without the Bertie factor this time for transfers.

The PD's with more or less the same vote as 97 gained 4 seats despite all the predictions. Shows u how unpredictable PR is.

randomname2005

InFront wrote:

Can I ask, what disgusts you? There are people in other countries that are so disgusted with their government that they lose their lives to change it, what disgusts you so much about the Irish Government that you wouldn't vote for any of the parties, or independent candidates???

I thought I gave reasons for not voting for the various parties!

The current government as it stands has done very little for the country. We have had huge prosperity for the past 10ish years and while people get richer (in fact more in debt) the basis of the country has not improved enough for my liking. Ok, so we got 2 luas lines that don't meet up. We have an M50 that we paid for in part and have to pay for again. We have a health service where people have to wait on trolleys. And so on.

Now for the other parties. We joined the Euro. We gave up our right to set our own interest rate and have to rely on whatever is good for the rest of Europe to be good for us. So the ECB started raising rates, and Labour finance spokesperson is asking why? Irish people have paid too much for houses and now that interest rates are going up they are finding it difficult. Europe Inc doesn't care about 4 million people living on an island off to the west. They care about the hundreds of millions of people living in Germany, France, Spain, Italy etc. Ergo I am not going to vote for a party and then have this person become minister for finance.

FG are jumping on the populist stamp duty agenda. Stamp duty is good. In fact it should be more prevalent. If the bacon report (I think it was the bacon report, I'm open to correction on it) had been fully implemented and the proposals kept in place we would not have the housing bubble we have now. FG are getting involved in the whole stamp duty debate rather than letting the housing market settle itself as markets are want to do.

The Green party, who I had a lot of respect for but this has been diminished due to their health policies. Vaccinations good, homeopathy bad. But not according to the greens.

I think thats enough but I can continue if people want!

And yes, I do cherish my right to vote and I have voted in EVERY referendum, local, national and European elections since I have been eligible, However, unlike college elections where there is the option to Re Open Nominations, how does one register your dissatisfaction with the people presented to you? I would say that spoiling your vote has the same impact that not voting has.

R

The_Minister

miju wrote:

i'd take that TD and his wife over one who sends out letters supporting the release of sex offenders ala fianna fail

Pat Breen of Fine Gael tried to get the same sex offender released. But it just isn't convenient to remember that is it?