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Bouncers - Right to refuse Admission VS Discrimination

unreggd

How does that make sense?

Yes, they reserve the right to refuse you admission, but on what grounds? If you're clearly completely sober, the only other way they can judge is how you look, which, is dicrimination.

Also, if a bouncer says NOT TONIGHT, and you ask why, they say "If I give you a reason its discrimination"
they think this covers them but its actually means they've just told you they ARE discriminating against you, but wont tell you why.

I think its just an abuse of power, make some muppets feel like hardmen. They even go around boxin people if they stall the queue for a whole 20 seconds.

They need to know they're not the Gardai, and they're should be some sort of law about this kind of thing

Honestly, it doesnt really affect me personally as I tend to get in anywhere I go, regardless bein a regular, but it happens to some of my friends, every time, and its stupid.

Discuss

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tolosenc

I got refused from a bar once because I had my Canadian passport, to which the bouncer said: "I've never seen one of them before, so you're not gettin in".

Went to the embassy the next Monday and complained.

unreggd

obl wrote:

I got refused from a bar once because I had my Canadian passport, to which the bouncer said: "I've never seen one of them before, so you're not gettin in".

Went to the embassy the next Monday and complained.

anything happen?

About my friends:

We never touch an alcohol til we're in a club. We never seem or act remotely drunk, and we're always very well dressed and well groomed, so theres absolutely no reason they get refused

Ruu_Old

Don't think I have ever had any problems with bouncers in Ireland. In America (like happened in the airport in Liverpool also), all I had was my Garda age card thingy and the chap asked "What's your role in the *squints at card* Department of Justice?".

unreggd

Obviously all bouncers aint wanx, but in my experience about 90% of them are

They should need a proper qualification where training includes proper judge of character, body language etc, civil conduct, things like that

Not the usual fat guy in a bomber jacket who probably cant read

pred racer

Id like to agree, with everybody who reckons bouncers are W*nkers. And as for the couple of door men that are posting saying how levelheaded their approach to their job is, well thats like expecting someone in the motoring forum to admit they are a bad driver:rolleyes:
I am the guy who was refused 9/10 times (the only times I would be let in were mon/tue night and even then the same W*nkers Id gotten to know on tue nights would have deleted me from their memory when my shift changed and I could go out thursdays again)
And now ye are all thinking he must be a scumbag:rolleyes: , the thing is I'm not, im from a middle class country backround and would be considered quite well spoken, I have never been in a fight in a nightclub, Ever(rugby pitch and school the same couldnt be said but thats a different story;) ), I always made the effort to look presentable,how successful I was im not sure but I was never any drunker than my mates and I was always at least as well dressed as them. As for their usual sh1te of, "regulars only/not tonight/i dont have to tell you" they wonder why people get frustrated and infuriated, I stopped going into town with my mates(male and female) because I got sick of it, do the doormen here have any idea how embarrassing it is to be refused entry to somewhere when your on a date?

from talking to bouncers in different situations (ie. when they aren't working) I have been told a couple of theories for this

1. I am a big guy and they said that bouncers dont like the thought of having to handle the likes of me.

2. Im just unlucky and get caught on the wrong side of them balancing the sex ratio in the club.

3. I should get to know the guys on the door.

to 1, I would say boll0x, there were always guys bigger than me getting in and anyway Im not that bloody big (gave up rugby coz they wanted me to gain 2 stone to stay propping) As for 2, I would say that not even Jonah was that unlucky:p and 3 how the fcuk can I if the only thing I can get from them is "step away from the door please sir" and the guys who knew me by name on tue appear to have gotten mass amnesia by thursday.

so after all this the only theory I can come up with is that yez are all w*nkers, and because I'll be accused of generalisation; to all the nice doormen out there Im sorry (yes to both of you)

I dont feel as strongly about this subject anymore coz Im older (36) and its not really a problem anymore, you dont want to know what I used to think of ye......:D

Caliden

Futureman wrote:

Wow, you're so connected....

Thanks.
Good thing I have no understanding of sarcasm. Or could it possibly be jealousy I'm not sure...

Slutmonkey57b

brianthebard wrote:

My sis is in limerick, in her first year she doctored her birthcert and got a college ID saying she was 18, that got her into every club and pub in Limerick. stupid bast*rds.

Wow your sister is a total Ledge. Way to put one over on the MAN.

Your sister is a college age girl. Bouncers will always let in college age girls unless they're in a hen night.

Slutmonkey57b

pred racer wrote:

I am the guy who was refused 9/10 times (the only times I would be let in were mon/tue night and even then the same W*nkers Id gotten to know on tue nights would have deleted me from their memory when my shift changed and I could go out thursdays again)

The common denominator here is you, not them. So clearly it's their fault.

I have never been in a fight in a nightclub, Ever(rugby pitch and school the same couldnt be said but thats a different story;) )

So you are the sort of bloke who gets into fights. Maybe they think you're the sort of brainless rugby playing jock who breaks glasses, hassles women, thinks he's god's gift and is a sloppy messy drunk?

do the doormen here have any idea how embarrassing it is to be refused entry to somewhere when your on a date?

They don't care, it's not their problem.

Dragan

pred racer wrote:

so after all this the only theory I can come up with is that yez are all w*nkers, and because I'll be accused of generalisation; to all the nice doormen out there Im sorry (yes to both of you)

Not to worry!!!

event

dont have a problem with them, though growing up i used to hate when they said

'regulars only lads'

how the **** do you become a regular if they wont let you in?

there is one place in Dundalk that is notorious for it, if you are from the area you'll know it

layke

I used to work asw a bouncer (for a short while).

You tell some one who looks a lil ropey that they can't come in, next thing they are spitting on you and threatening to 'dance on yer head'. Never got into a serious fight myself, usually most muppets back off when thew rest of the boys arrive.

That said, i've seen head bouncers refuse some nice guys for absolutely no reason what so ever and I just thought it was wrong. Sure i've had mates of mine beaten up by bouncers without justification.

A lot of blokes do it for the power trip they get.

Horrible horrible job, i'll never do it again.

digitally-yours

well i have to say that i have never been rejected from entry to Pub,Disco or night club

Never had problem:)

when i hear stories of people getting rejected it makes me feel strange

But once again i am foreign and i think it makes it easy when it comes to gain access to pub,disco or nite club

Dragan

pred racer wrote:

Id like to agree, with everybody who reckons bouncers are W*nkers. And as for the couple of door men that are posting saying how levelheaded their approach to their job is, well thats like expecting someone in the motoring forum to admit they are a bad driver:rolleyes:

Not really. I know plenty of guys who do the job who will stop you and laugh in your face about it and would happily sit here and say "the simple fact is mate, i say who goes in and you don't, so stop crying about it and **** off." but i won't say that , because it's not me.

If people want to post that doormen are **** then so be it, but as a doorman who does his job with a degree of dignity don't expect me to sit here and smile while you folks talk sh1t.

padi89

foinse wrote:

At this point i'll let you know what we were wearing, I had a pair of Jeans, cream coloured skate shoes, and a black tshirt, my friend was wearing a white shirt closed over a white tshirt and black skate shoes.

He was too casual?????????

Dont take this the wrong way mate but t-shirts and skate shoes to me are the equivilant to reebok classics and a soccer jersey.At least make the effort to dress up a bit when your going out for a night.I understand the bouncer was being a prick but he's got a point.

source

What's needed is accountability, door staff should be licensed and should have to wear ID, the fact that these guys are just a face on a door makes them braver, if they have to wear their name on their chest, then they may be a bit more polite.

source

padi89 wrote:

Dont take this the wrong way mate but t-shirts and skate shoes to me are the equivilant to reebok classics and a soccer jersey.At least make the effort to dress up a bit when your going out for a night.I understand the bouncer was being a prick but he's got a point.

I usually dress for the occassion, ie, when going to a rock gig like i was that night....then i'll dress accordingly, the point i was trying to make is that he let me in but stopped my mate who was dressed better than me, by saying he was too casual.

InFront

Crucifix wrote:

Did he actually just turn it upside down and let it pour onto the ground?! I think a search is understandable, but I'd be livid if they treated my personal property like that. Plus I treat all my books like they're the original, and sole, copy of some sacred text.

He turned it over after looking in it, once he had comforted himself that there was nothing valuable in there that he might need to pay for. He was a jerk, argh!.

I'm one of two non-drinking people in my usual circle of friends who socialise, so have experienced some extremely polite, really friendly bouncers, and in fairness theirs isn't an easy job.
I don't go out a whole lot, and have never been refused entry, but it's just the behaviour, and the comments that a lot of doormen make which annoys me. It's like they need to compensate themselves for letting you in by making some ridiculous statement of power like the schoolbag incident, or needlessly commenting, often on girls. I just don't understand them, they're so angry. Why do the job if you hate it?

Overheal

I disagree foinse: unfortunate as that is. That would really just stir up complete chaos IMO.

Think about it:

- you know the bouncer's name: "OI, Rob, Let me in!" You realise how annoying this would get and how often it would happen??

- 8/10 times your argument is with the Publican; not the door staff who do not truly set policy.

- This is exactly why Gards aren't wearing their names on their chest (though they do have a number)

- I can't imagine any complaint about door staff will actually get listened to but if it does, again, the Publican is the one to assume responsibility.

You can however try these suggestions to get into a club:

- Calm the F* down
- Go in...sober?
- Go in EARLY: the mantra then is usually to get the place filled in most places
- DON'T dress like a chav/pikey/dealer?
- Carry 2 forms of ID; only present one. Do not use your Driver's License if you have the option. Many policies are switching over to refusing them outright.
- Try again later; leave without making a scene, perhaps insofar as to appear polite.

And when you do get in, try and consider the great night you will have; because people understand on a subliminal level that the Door policy is sound, and that once they're in there you don't really have to be all that defensive. Less fights break out (or none) when everyone feels secure.

Sure, if you can't seem to get into any nice places (perhaps entirely through no fault of your own; but somehow I doubt it if its a regular occurence) go to one of those places with little or no policy and see if you feel safe without a knife in your pocket.

Dragan

foinse wrote:

What's needed is accountability, door staff should be licensed and should have to wear ID, the fact that these guys are just a face on a door makes them braver, if they have to wear their name on their chest, then they may be a bit more polite.

Ah right, so your the kind of person who will bitch about an industry but not check for two seconds what is going on in it?

From the first of April all active doormen need to have there license, and will have an ID badge to be worn and presented on the door. This falls under the duristiction of the ISTA and the PSA, so the industry will be well regulated from that point onwards!

The good news for me is that as from that date i will get paid more.

Caliden

foinse wrote:

I usually dress for the occassion, ie, when going to a rock gig like i was that night....then i'll dress accordingly, the point i was trying to make is that he let me in but stopped my mate who was dressed better than me, by saying he was too casual.

sounds like he could have been too dressed up for the night that was in it.
A bit like going to a rave wearing a tux.

crybaby

tis a tough job and they have to make judgment calls constantly so they can be excused for the odd mistake etc. however some of them are just idiots with severe attitude problems

Caliden

crybaby wrote:

tis a tough job and they have to make judgment calls constantly so they can be excused for the odd mistake etc. however some of them are just idiots with severe attitude problems

on the topic of judgement calls, one particular I was able talk my way in after I was straight out told "not tonight buddy"
I calmy asked why as I've only had 2 drinks, the bouncer called me over to the side and had a small talk with me and let me in shortly after.

I guess not over-reacting had something to do with it as I immediately didn't go "OH FFS, YOU'RE ****IN' JOKIN' RIGHT??!?!!?"

source

Overheal wrote:

- you know the bouncer's name: "OI, Rob, Let me in!" You realise how annoying this would get and how often it would happen??

- 8/10 times your argument is with the Publican; not the door staff who do not truly set policy.

- This is exactly why Gards aren't wearing their names on their chest (though they do have a number)

Then number the door staff like the Gardai instead of having their name on an ID.

Overheal wrote:

- I can't imagine any complaint about door staff will actually get listened to but if it does, again, the Publican is the one to assume responsibility.

If a doorman is rude to the point of being abusive then the complaint is not with the publican but with the doorman....If i was rude to a customer in my place of employment, i would get it in the neck not the owner of the business, same applies with doorstaff.

You can however try these suggestions to get into a club:

Overheal wrote:

- Calm the F* down
- Go in...sober?
- Go in EARLY: the mantra then is usually to get the place filled in most places
- DON'T dress like a chav/pikey/dealer?
- Carry 2 forms of ID; only present one. Do not use your Driver's License if you have the option. Many policies are switching over to refusing them outright.
- Try again later; leave without making a scene, perhaps insofar as to appear polite.

Again, i don't drink, or get angry very easily, i think i already mentioned that.The general dress code in Limerick is fairly casual,so we tend to dress for the occassion, so rock gig, dress down; fashion show, dress up.......again if you read my posts properly you will see i already mentioned this too.

with regard driving license it is one of the few forms of ID left which we can take out, most places won't accept age cards, cos they're easily copied; I refuse to take my passport out, it is a very important document which i am legally responsible for. i'm not a student so i don't have a college ID, what else am i supposed to use?????

Overheal wrote:

Sure, if you can't seem to get into any nice places (perhaps entirely through no fault of your own; but somehow I doubt it if its a regular occurence)

I never said it was a regular occurrence, I normally have no prob getting into places,which is prob why i'm so annoyed about this particular incident.

source

Dragan wrote:

Ah right, so your the kind of person who will bitch about an industry but not check for two seconds what is going on in it?

From the first of April all active doormen need to have there license, and will have an ID badge to be worn and presented on the door. This falls under the duristiction of the ISTA and the PSA, so the industry will be well regulated from that point onwards!

The good news for me is that as from that date i will get paid more.

Actually no i'm not that kind of person,I read an article about this in either the Limerick Leader or the Post, i'm just very sceptical about a licensing scheme which demands a training course be completed, but doesn't give time for said course to be completed effectively, and the licensing body have said that they will license people who say they will do the course if they can't do it by 1 April.

Typical shambolic way of doing things in this country!!!

[Deleted User]

Honestly, if people are so annoyed at the bouncers, find out which company they are working for (would usually be on the jackets they wear), get in contact with them and explain your complaint to them.

tolosenc

[EDIT]double post[/EDIT]

tolosenc

unreggd wrote:

anything happen?

Well, I've been in twice since with no bother.

Laslo

I've found that the ratio of a$$holes to decent people is about the same with bouncers I've met as it is with the drinking, socialising public. So, basically, all of the sweeping generalisations and assumptions about doormen on this thread are silly.

pred racer

Caliden wrote:

on the topic of judgement calls, one particular I was able talk my way in after I was straight out told "not tonight buddy"
I calmy asked why as I've only had 2 drinks, the bouncer called me over to the side and had a small talk with me and let me in shortly after.

I guess not over-reacting had something to do with it as I immediately didn't go "OH FFS, YOU'RE ****IN' JOKIN' RIGHT??!?!!?"

If I had ever had the chance to do this maybe I wouldnt feel so strongly about the whole subject.

>>Slutmonkey57b... I am none of those things u accuse me of.BTW have you never had a row in school or on the sports pitch? But you'll just have to take my word for that (like our perfect brethren in the motoring forum :-) ) I understand the common denomiator is me, ive just never been able to work out why, I was just trying to relate my experiences and the reason I now have this opinion of doormen.

Dragan wrote:

Not really. I know plenty of guys who do the job who will stop you and laugh in your face about it and would happily sit here and say "the simple fact is mate, i say who goes in and you don't, so stop crying about it and **** off." but i won't say that , because it's not me.

If people want to post that doormen are **** then so be it, but as a doorman who does his job with a degree of dignity don't expect me to sit here and smile while you folks talk sh1t.

Yeah, Ive met these type too and it just makes it worse, As you can see from Slutmonkeys reply to my first post we all suffer from stereotyping to some degree or another, my intention was not to offend you or anybody else in particular, maybe someday ill have some good experiences with doormen (although it will be difficult as I'd rather eat my own toenails as go to a nite-club now) and my opinion will change for the better.

As an aside does anyone think the new licencing system for individuals in this industrycoming in in April will make any difference.

Kinetic^

This is some funny ****..........I got refused from the door where I used to be the doorman.............:p ............different contractors but I found it hilarious!!!