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Can PokerEvents please reply to this?

ditpoker

Once again PokerEvents have upset the many dealers that they employ. They are running a 300+30 game on New Years Day.

Dealers originally did not want to work for 10 an hour on New Years Day, when contacted about this Fintan was very aggressive and "did not appreciate" being called on the matter.
As it became apparent that they would struggle to get sufficient number of dealers, PokerEvents said “We will offer you 12 euro an hour, and if you don’t work it you won’t work the IPC”. This is effectively blackmail as they know that the IPC is worth a few hundred euro to student dealers. This ‘threat’ is not acceptable.
PokerEvents point out that dealers will also receive tips from this event, however, given that there are no cash prizes, just tickets, there will be limited, if any, tips.

Could PokerEvents, or someone associated with PokerEvents, please answer the following:

Why did you threaten dealers that they would not be able to work the IPC?
Why does PokerEvents remain the only poker employer who do not offer a call out fee for dealers?
Why do PokerEvents continue to refuse to offer dealers contracts prior to events?

I would appreciate a reply on this matter in a public forum, and not in PM. I think it is important that players (customers) and dealers (staff) get to see both sides of this.

Regards,

Jeff.

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MickL

kakak1 wrote:

I think you are missing the point.

PE cannot charge extra reg fees because it is a bank holiday weekend, players would be unwilling to pay it.

Most tournaments are at weekends, does this mean double / 50% extra has to be paid. This is why there are part time workers, they work for an agreed sum WHEN THE WORK IS THERE, they are not permanent part time employees, they are casual part time workers and once they are paid the minimum wage per hour I really don't see any argument

They point been made here Pokerevents kno they are puttin the tournament on NEW YEARS DAY and most of the world this day is a PUBLIC/BANK HOLIDAY
all employers prepaired to offer a service this day should be prepaird to pay the staff there legal requirments which is minimum national wage + 1/2,
they surely cannot try try bully staff and threatin them with no futher work,

MICK LOCKE

kakak1

MickL wrote:

They point been made here Pokerevents kno they are puttin the tournament on NEW YEARS DAY and most of the world this day is a PUBLIC/BANK HOLIDAY
all employers prepaired to offer a service this day should be prepaird to pay the staff there legal requirments which is minimum national wage + 1/2,
they surely cannot try try bully staff and threatin them with no futher work,
someone should call the revenue commissioner to take a trip to the IPC or PE next gig,,

MICK LOCKE

some are slow, some are thick& some just don't want to know. (You can chose your own category)

the post above from MCAUL explains it better than I can.

Yea we should all contact the Rev Commissioners and finish live poker as we know it.

Lafortezza

Zero tolerance for dickheadery from this post onwards. No insults, no threats.
plzkthx.
I've edited some posts.

bohsman

kakak1 wrote:

Yea we should all contact the Rev Commissioners and finish live poker as we know it. How thick can you be :mad: :mad:

If thats the only way its going to stop then yes. Id say it wont be too long before they start sniffing around that area anyway seeing as theyre looking to regulate the whole industry.

Mellor

mcaul wrote:

I won't get involved with the main argument but on the wages aspect if an employee is contracted on a 7 day roster (as per most retail workers etc etc) then no additional pay is due for bank holiday / sundays / nights etc etc. as it forms part of the standard working week. If an employee is contracted on a standard monday to friday 9-5 work week than additional pay / time off in lieu is due for Sundays/ Bank holidays, nights etc.

As for paying cash - it can be done if a receipt is provided by the "employee" and as such it is assumed it is a contract with a self-employed person. - they then must make tax returns on this. - Most student will never have to pay tax anyway as the first 17k of earnings is now tax free.

You can still be taxed if you earn less than the 17k.
Tax is paid on on thes ame basis as people are paid. (week/fortnightly/monthly etc), if you earn more than the average tax free allowable amount then you will be taxed on it.
Say I work a certain week and earn €500, I will be taxed on this as its above the average (17k over 52 weeks is about 325, so above that amount.) If by the end of the year you have earned less than 17k in total then you can claim the tax back. But you have to wait until the end or until you will not be working for the rest of the year.

Besides, all this talk about legal wage, tax etc is beside the point. I dont think the law should to come into it.
How many people here think the dealers are being out of line for wanting more than €10 on new years day?? How many people here would work for it?
But it thats all they are offered, fine, its ultimately up to PE. How can they justify blackmail regarding the IPC.

PokerEvents-Ste

Hello Jeff,

I am going to respond to your thread to bring some closure to the matter. And for people looking to clear up your misinformed information.

ditpoker wrote:

Dealers originally did not want to work for 10 an hour on New Years Day, when contacted about this Fintan was very aggressive and "did not appreciate" being called on the matter.

Fintan was not aggressive on the phone. The phone call you are refering to was at about 7-8pm on Stephen's Day. That may be why he did not appreciate the call.

ditpoker wrote:

[*]As it became apparent that they would struggle to get sufficient number of dealers, PokerEvents said “We will offer you 12 euro an hour, and if you don’t work it you won’t work the IPC”. This is effectively blackmail as they know that the IPC is worth a few hundred euro to student dealers. This ‘threat’ is not acceptable.

This is totally false information. I never had to worry about dealers for todays event. I assume you are quoting me here. I never said this at all.

ditpoker wrote:

[*]PokerEvents point out that dealers will also receive tips from this event, however, given that there are no cash prizes, just tickets, there will be limited, if any, tips.

Tips are at the players discretion! And players will tip if they want to! At the time of the discussion the tournament planned the same as the Leinster Cup.

Why did you threaten dealers that they would not be able to work the IPC?

PokerEvents didn't. If there was anyone making threats it was the dealer.

ditpoker wrote:

[*]Why does PokerEvents remain the only poker employer who do not offer a call out fee for dealers?

I have set agreements that the hours for the IPC will be made as fair as possible, and there is no need for a call out fee!

ditpoker wrote:

[*]Why do PokerEvents continue to refuse to offer dealers contracts prior to events?

Contracts have been given to out. All dealers know what to expect and the rate of pay in exchange for their services.

And to clear up another rumour I heard tonight.... ALL DEALERS ARE WORKING FOR THE SAME RATE OF PAY!

Jeff I hope this answers your questions and will bring closure to this thread!

Regards

Stephen

Waylander

Mellor wrote:

You can still be taxed if you earn less than the 17k.
Tax is paid on on thes ame basis as people are paid. (week/fortnightly/monthly etc), if you earn more than the average tax free allowable amount then you will be taxed on it.
Say I work a certain week and earn €500, I will be taxed on this as its above the average (17k over 52 weeks is about 325, so above that amount.) If by the end of the year you have earned less than 17k in total then you can claim the tax back. But you have to wait until the end or until you will not be working for the rest of the year.

Besides, all this talk about legal wage, tax etc is beside the point. I dont think the law should to come into it.
How many people here think the dealers are being out of line for wanting more than €10 on new years day?? How many people here would work for it?
But it thats all they are offered, fine, its ultimately up to PE. How can they justify blackmail regarding the IPC.

That is not strictly speaking coreect, as tax is deducted on a cumulative basis during the year, that is why payslip always have Year to Date earnings etc on them, and if you have not utilised some weeks credits, they will automatically be utilised at the next opportunity. Unless you are in an emergency tax, or week 1 basis (only really new employees) then your allowance3s will be utilised in Year.

Regarding the minimum wage thing, I am not sure if that should apply or not, but seeing as the dealers are being paid cash in hand with no tax or PRSI deductions, this will kind of balance itself out.

I do not think it fair that Poker Events should have to have this discussion on a public forum to be honest. No other company answers these kind of queries on these fora, I think it unfair that they should be expected to.

DITTag

PokerEvents-Ste wrote:

PokerEvents didn't. If there was anyone making threats it was the dealer.

Elaborate please.

Lafortezza

Waylander wrote:

I do not think it fair that Poker Events should have to have this discussion on a public forum to be honest. No other company answers these kind of queries on these fora, I think it unfair that they should be expected to.

Not much of a price for free advertising to their perfect target audience. Obviously they are under no obligation to answer this thread, fair play for Ste for doing so though.

ocallagh

PokerEvents-Ste wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ditpoker
As it became apparent that they would struggle to get sufficient number of dealers, PokerEvents said “We will offer you 12 euro an hour, and if you don’t work it you won’t work the IPC”. This is effectively blackmail as they know that the IPC is worth a few hundred euro to student dealers. This ‘threat’ is not acceptable.

This is totally false information. I never had to worry about dealers for todays event. I assume you are quoting me here. I never said this at all.

DIT never mentioned you in the original question, and you never mentioned PokerEvents in this answer!

ps: fair play for answering all these questions. Boards is full of people like me just waiting to come up with smart replies, so just take it* with a pinch of salt. On a scale of 1 to 10 I don't really give a ****, but obviously the dealers have no union or voice so they have used boards (the same medium in which you get so much coverage for your tournaments) to voice their concerns. I would not take their opinions or replies with the same regard as mine.

edit: * by "it" I mean my reply, and not this thread.

carfax

This thread is very interesting for me to read. Having worked for Poker Events (my job title was National Tour Manager but I was never exactly sure what my role was) I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

I am not going to recount my story here especially as the owner of the company does not post here anymore.

The thing that makes poker in this country great is companies like Poker Events so I'm not trying to give them any bad publicity (and believe me I am entitled to)......but the players make tournaments like the upcoming IPC great.....However, players also have to be very grateful to the dealers that work extremely hard and dealers don't have a union right now.

Fair play to Jeff for staring this thread as it has all been very civil and I think he is genuinely trying to improve the situation for dealers that still work for Poker Events.

PokerEvents-Ste

DITTag wrote:

Elaborate please.

Hello DITTag,

I will not elaborate as this will turn the thread into a slagging match and may have a negative effect on peoples earnings, reputations and good names.

This thread has aspired from heresay and does not have fact behind.

I have answered the questions requested.

Regards,

Stephen

ianmc38

PokerEvents-Ste wrote:

This thread has aspired from heresay and does not have fact behind.

bohsman

carfax wrote:

The thing that makes poker in this country great is companies like Poker Events

Like the people that say Hitler was a great man because he built the motorways.

carfax

bohsman wrote:

Like the people that say Hitler was a great man because he built the motorways.

Actually yeah, I take that back......Just didn't want to sound like I was putting down PE for no reason......The point is that its the players that support events like the IPC that make poker so strong in Ireland.

DITTag

bohsman wrote:

Like the people that say Hitler was a great man because he built the motorways.

LOL:)

PokerEvents-Ste

carfax wrote:

Fair play to Jeff for staring this thread as it has all been very civil and I think he is genuinely trying to improve the situation for dealers that still work for Poker Events.

Carfax,

Surly PokerEvents dealers can speak for themselves. While running dealers I have tried to be as fair as possible to the dealers. The dealers know what to expect of PokerEvents and if they are unhappy with any circumstances I am always open to discussion.

Should the dealers not want to work for PokerEvents thats perfectly ok.

I personally believe it's out of order for someone to post heresay (distorted at that) on a public forum which could damage anyone's good name.

Regards

Stephen

carfax

PokerEvents-Ste wrote:

Carfax,

Surly PokerEvents dealers can speak for themselves. While running dealers I have tried to be as fair as possible to the dealers. The dealers know what to expect of PokerEvents and if they are unhappy with any circumstances I am always open to discussion.

Should the dealers not want to work for PokerEvents thats perfectly ok.

I personally believe it's out of order for someone to post heresay (distorted at that) on a public forum which could damage anyone's good name.

Regards

Stephen

The reason for this thread is that dealers can't speak for themselves if they wish to earn a living.

Sorry Ste I know you are only doing your job and you're doing great. Best of luck with the event.

bohsman

I definitely think theres place for companies like GJP and VN in this country, they are good for the game, however I do think things need to be done above board, no more of this cash in hand bs, its eventually going to be their downfall.

BIG-SLICK-POKER

Steven fair play , good response to the points made , if it was me personally i would have not got involved , if they dont like the deal they are getting then that is ok u cant keep everyone happy , For someone who does not work for poker events to question its methods is ok , just not on the public forum ....

See u up in dublin friday mate , U cannot please all ...

Mellor

Waylander wrote:

That is not strictly speaking coreect, as tax is deducted on a cumulative basis during the year, that is why payslip always have Year to Date earnings etc on them, and if you have not utilised some weeks credits, they will automatically be utilised at the next opportunity. Unless you are in an emergency tax, or week 1 basis (only really new employees) then your allowance3s will be utilised in Year.

This should be the way its done, but it isn't. I am a student. And have never earned over 17k in a single year. But I pay tax during the summer, and christmas. Any weeks were I do alot of work and get extra pay. I have to wait untikl the end of the year to get it back. I have the payslips to prove it. I have beside me two cheques from the revenue for my tax for '04 & '05. I only got them last week. The reason its so late is because 04 wasn't much so i didnt bother, and there was a **** up with 05. As its now 2007. I am getting my tax from last year back. Total earnings for 2006 were under 13k.

Solksjaer

Looking forward to one of these events the weekend. Not the big on e though as I'd be easily beaten by the superb players on this forum. Ooops I've deleted the rest of my post.

ditpoker

PokerEvents-Ste wrote:

And for people looking to clear up your misinformed information.

i maintain that I am not misinformed

PokerEvents-Ste wrote:

Fintan was not aggressive on the phone. The phone call you are refering to was at about 7-8pm on Stephen's Day. That may be why he did not appreciate the call.

in an earlier post you complained to me for stating that Fintan had been aggressive on a phone call that I did not hear. I find it interesting that you can say he was not aggressive on a phone call you did not hear.

[QUOTEPokerEvents-Ste]
This is totally false information. I never had to worry about dealers for todays event. I assume you are quoting me here. I never said this at all.
[/QUOTE]
Can you confirm that dealers were paid 12 euro an hour for this event. Would this not suggest that PokerEvents had to offer extra incentive in order to confirm sufficient numbers of dealers?

PokerEvents-Ste wrote:

PokerEvents didn't. If there was anyone making threats it was the dealer.

This seems like a very similar accusation to the one I have made, yet you complained greatly about my accusation.

PokerEvents-Ste wrote:

I have set agreements that the hours for the IPC will be made as fair as possible, and there is no need for a call out fee!

I disagree with this. The manner in which PE handled staff during your event in CityWest during the summer proves this. I strongly suggest you initiate a call out fee system. However, if the staffing arrangements run smoothly this weekend I will be delighted for both employer and employees, otherwise I'd imagine there will be some backlack on this forum as per last summer.

PokerEvents-Ste wrote:

Contracts have been given to out. All dealers know what to expect and the rate of pay in exchange for their services.

If PE have of have offered staff pre-event, signed contracts then this thread has been completely worthwhile. If this is the case I congratulate you on this step. If PE have offered verbal agreements, I'd be surprised if they are honoured.

PokerEvents-Ste wrote:

]And to clear up another rumour I heard tonight.... ALL DEALERS ARE WORKING FOR THE SAME RATE OF PAY!

i heard this rumour too, and thought it to be incorrect, and was never mentioned in any of my posts.

PokerEvents-Ste wrote:

Jeff I hope this answers your questions and will bring closure to this thread!

Stephen, thank you for taking the time to respond to this thread.

rag2gar

can poker-events ste please reply to his pm please....

RoundTower

PokerEvents-Ste wrote:

Hello DITTag,

I will not elaborate as this will turn the thread into a slagging match and may have a negative effect on peoples earnings, reputations and good names.

This thread has aspired from heresay and does not have fact behind.

I have answered the questions requested.

Regards,

Stephen

Hi Pokerevents,

you still owe me my tips. I have not got them nor have I received confirmation that they have been donated to the charity of my choice. As a gesture of goodwill, I also think you should add on the interest, and match the donation 100% (you can get a tax deduction for this, if your company pays any tax).

This is not hearsay, it is first hand from a former PokerEvents dealer who also wouldn't wish the job on anyone.

Solksjaer

I'm sure PE has done something to irk these lads
However...
Posting business dealings publicly doesn't really read well. It feels intrusive.
2 cents..
My suggestion Stephen is that when confronted with questions/accusations on a public forum like this that you simply post a response in your own website and provide a link to there . That way it will A) be less public ( no offense to your forum but it's not as expansive as boards.ie

all further replies will be on your website and if private info is aired at least your audience will be smaller. Posting replies directly to this forum keeps the subject 'hot'.

Having said that Stephen (and I know it's not my business) perhaps there is A LOT of smoke in relation to dealers and PE for some reason. It's probably an easy fix for you guys to make to protect your good (?)name. I'm sure if you put your heads together you can come up with a solution that will stem these types of mails/posts. You are a good addition PRwise to PE and not as volitile as yer last rep..:-) so try to influence a change if needed. (devils advocate here)

For dealiers with issues I think as long as you are not an official entity you will face problems and until then you will have to pick companies that you consider palatable from an industrial relations point of view.

No disrespect to dealers who have been wronged as in the main I get quite a buzz from the different characters we have in the different events....

Now Shuffle up and DEAL.....,

Wombatman

I'm no fan of PE and don't work in the gaming industry.
Just a casual player from down the country.

In the interests of fairness \ good form could people like boshman etc declare an interest when posting in industry related threads. Some newbies\rednecks are not aware where ye might be coming from.

A few lines in your public profile might be good.

Mods?

bohsman

I have worked in the Fitz on off for the last few years having originally being trained by Luke to work for the newly setup PE, a few dealers went out the first night - I had something on so missed it but got to hear the horror stories of how badly they were treated, didnt get their tips and organisers pocketing large amounts of money from the prizepool. I refused to work for them and emailed VC, their sponsors at the time asking for my VC account to be shut down. Search the forum for the earliest mentions of PE, there was war on here and eventually they started making prizepools a bit more transparent till the farce at the 400 FO a couple of months ago at least but dealers were still being mistreated.

More present day I know DitPoker and other dealers very well and know how they were treated, Kimba started a thread a couple of months ago "dealers shafted by PE" she was my flatmate at the time so I heard exactly what went on there. Im staying with Carfax at the mo who did 90% of the work for PE since he got back from Australia and I know exactly the thanks he got for that.

MickL

bohsman wrote:

I have worked in the Fitz on off for the last few years

WORK YEA OSCAR

:D:D

bohsman wrote:

I had something on so missed it but got to hear the horror stories of how badly they were treated, didnt get their tips and organisers pocketing large amounts of money from the prizepool. I refused to work for them and emailed VC, their sponsors at the time asking for my VC account to be shut down. Search the forum for the earliest mentions of PE, there was war on here and eventually they started making prizepools a bit more transparent till the farce at the 400 FO a couple of months ago at least but dealers were still being mistreated.

Back you up totally on this everything is the truth,,

monoP54

Its all down to people skills.....;)

Why can't we all just get along?