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Why are we constantly told from various groups that Ireland is racist?

darkman2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieno-ictmOQ

Just saw this trash today. Firstly I dont believe for a second that Irish people in general are racist. However the amount of ppl on the liberal side telling us we are has increased hugely in recent years. Why do they say things like this? (and its not just silly cartoons I mean) Is it really for the good for immigrants that we are constantly told as a society we are racist? Or is there something actually sinister about making us believe we are racist. I cant understand it really. They dont want Irish people to be racist yet they drill it into us that we are racist - when obviously the vast majority of us are not. This actually annoys me when people get on TV or whatever and tell Irish people (essentially me and you) that we are racist - but we just dont know it yet.

How this helps their cause I dont know. I think these sort of condescending rants just make Irish people annoyed. We are NOT a racist society. We except many more immgrants per capita then practically any other European country and they are looked after very well in comparison. I thnk we deal with immigrants very fairly. OK there are a few bad apples but stop labelling us a racist country. Its getting tiresome:mad:

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Tha Gopher

exiztone wrote:

In a PC light, would it be racist of foreign labourers to say the Irish are rude? To say that would be a generalisation of a group of people in a (I assume) well meaning nation in a negative manner.

Hah, I'll never forget the day the day my boss said "Oh no no no! Bulgaria and Romania are joining the EU in 2007. We're going to be robbed by gypsies!" My boss is Pakistani and I've seen him get the odd racist remark, usually from tramps though. A person like him will never be caught in the limelight though, he's not an easy target.

Are we considered racist because we have some blue collar guys saying they can't get work because of the eastern Europeans? I'd consider that too passive to be racist, and lord knows, when you're hard on your luck, you point your finger and blame someone else.

Well, I think anyone on boards in Dublin aged 18-20 will agree that immigrant labour has made finding part time work a hard task.

The middle aged PC heads on here (well, mid aged as in 30-36) will throw up the previous report which says that immigration has had zero effect on job opportunities for Irish people. However, peoiple should note that these people are actually tossers with zero real life experience, even when they themselves were 18 they had none. They have their nice comfy jobs now, so its grand to roar racist at an 18 year old pissed off even Dunnes wont hire him.

As for your boss, well......hes right. The Roma gypsies are, from my personal experience with them, almost as shady as our native travellers (main difference being I worked with Polish Roma who, whilst extremely dodge, at least they worked, whereas Ive never seen an Irish traveller in taxable employment. The traveller thing is for another debate probably, however when 95% of those Ive met have been aggressive, crooked bastards I refuse to apologise for my opinion of their community. Im sorry, but please bear in mind in 20 years Ive only met one traveller who could be described as a decent person, and so you do form these opinons).

Racist my arse, the only people who dread Romas coming here en masse more than those in a "taxi driver state of mind" are the Slovak and Poles who are already here. You think old Irish drunks on about the "bleeeedddiin Rumaynayns" are bad, ask a Pole/Slovak, theyll keep you for hours with stories about them.

Remember, some stereotypes are wrong, but most are right. The Irish are generally drunkards, the Spaniards are generally loud and the roma are generally as bad as the Poles and Slovaks told us they were like. Its not racist, its a factual assumption based on observation of several different groups of these people.

PeadarofAodh

I reckon Ireland is quite racist but I think this racism is only natural. No other country has had such a huge influx of immigrants per capita as Ireland and, obviously, it takes time to adapt to such a big change in society. London is much more comfortable with it's multicultural status compared to say Dublin, however the fact is that London has evolved into it's status much more gradually than here. I say give it time...and wait for all those racist oldies to die off

Wibbs

PeadarofAodh wrote:

London is much more comfortable with it's multicultural status compared to say Dublin, however the fact is that London has evolved into it's status much more gradually than here.

Yes and it wasn't an easy process at times. The Brixton riots and all that. It's ongoing and still the UK is trying to deal with various groups who don't feel they have a say in the running of the country. We have to get this right by learning from the mistakes of others.

Hobbes

Tha Gopher wrote:

The middle aged PC heads on here (well, mid aged as in 30-36) will throw up the previous report which says that immigration has had zero effect on job opportunities for Irish people. However, peoiple should note that these people are actually tossers with zero real life experience, even when they themselves were 18 they had none. They have their nice comfy jobs now, so its grand to roar racist at an 18 year old pissed off even Dunnes wont hire him.

I'd think someone mid-aged (which I thought was over 40 if I recall) would remember a time when there wasn't any work at all. Of course we didn't have the luxury of blaming it on the immigrants back then as there was fuk all reason to immigrate to Ireland for.

"these people are actually tossers with zero real life experience"

I would of thought someone in 30-36 bracket would have much more real life experience then an 18 year old or does this just happen when you hit 30?

Hobbes

Kipperhell wrote:

What if you say things like....

Which are generalisations. It's like saying Irish are renowed for being drunks, so therefore every Irish person I meet is always drunk?

Crack cocaine has strong nigerian links in Dublin but you can get reamed for saying it.

Actually a thread on this some time back and there is also a government report on it that showed that Nigerian links to drugs trade is quite small in comparison to Irish and other demographics, just that nigerians are easier to spot.

Mass imigration and the lowering of wages due to this will cause resentment

Yes if it was actually happening. I am not aware of the minimum wage being lowered? Are you?

Many union jobs are being erroded.

I am curious where you heard this from? If anything immigrants are joining existing unions.

She now assumes that people from this country will all try and cheat the system the same way. Not once has she been wrong now is it racist to assume the next person from the same country will do the same? Or just realistic?

Hmmm, Irish are renowned for being drunks and wife beaters and full of single mothers. Is it racist to assume the next person from Ireland will be the same?

Tha Gopher

Hobbes wrote:

I'd think someone mid-aged (which I thought was over 40 if I recall) would remember a time when there wasn't any work at all. Of course we didn't have the luxury of blaming it on the immigrants back then as there was fuk all reason to immigrate to Ireland for.

"these people are actually tossers with zero real life experience"

I would of thought someone in 30-36 bracket would have much more real life experience then an 18 year old or does this just happen when you hit 30?

The point is that despite what the report on the issue may have claimed, young people have trouble finding low paid work (Dublin at least).

As for the Nigerian drugs link, its odd as there are several reports at http://www.ndc.hrb.ie/directory/news.php?cat_id=70&subcat_id=&newcat=&pointer=40 would seem to indicate otherwise. I dont believe its a race thing, more an issue of availability. Irish gangs are generally not involved in crack for one reason- when cocaine arrives in Spain from Colombia it is 90% plus pure. It is then diluted, sold to the guy who exports it to Ireland and diluted more, making it unsuitable for making crack. Nigeria on the other hand, near 100% raw is flown out of South America and straight to Ireland (with perhaps maybe a transfer flight in Amsterdam, or flown to South Africa and on to Dublin). Therefore, the coke is better suited for crack. Much in the same as much of the weed in the country is sourced from immigrant areas where it grows wild (Nigeria and, to my great suprise, Poland of all places). Or why the ecstasy trade is heavily linked to East Europeans- due to the larger profit margins for cocaine many Irish criminals cant be bothered with large scale E importing anymore as the profit doesnt reflect the risks. The Latvians etc communities will generally not be spending 100 on coke for a night out, and therefore they have those in their own communities making a small profit on 5 euro pills (albeit, of quite weak quality, meaning users would be buying several). There was a severe shortage of pills in 2005 but they seem to be around again. Whether the Irish have tired of coke and gone back to the loved up vibes of 94, or whether the Poles are bringing them in bulk I dont know, but theyre certainly more common. In truth, the Irish control a proportion of the drug trade even larger than their proportion of the population. Heroin is almost exclusively Irish. Cocaine is very heavily Irish. Soapbar cannabis, same story.

CuLT

Swords does need to be carpet bombed.

Although it seems to be the only place one can obtain white toblerone so I'm torn

Karl Hungus

CuLT wrote:

Although it seems to be the only place one can obtain white toblerone so I'm torn

What's wrong with the ordinary brown toblerones? You fasco-confectionist nazi!

CuLT

Karl Hungus wrote:

What's wrong with the ordinary brown toblerones? You fasco-confectionist nazi!

It's not that I have anything against the brown toblerones, it's just that many of these toblerones are first generation toblerones, and I find Nth generation white toblerones to be more palatable.

constitutionus

couldnt be arse reading 4 pages so i'll just chuck in my opinion on the OP point

basically all the comment on this is coming from a bunch of trinity/ UCD heads that work in our media and as such they are racist and push their bias onto the rest of the country.
honestly the people employed in the INDO and the TIMES really only represent about 10% of the population affluent enough to get into those organs and as such dont associate with any immigrant or socially deprived grouping, putting them in a position that leaves them inherently ignorant of issues they of course feel obliged to lecture us on .

ofcourse this fact absolutely terrifies em so they push a "liberal" agenda that's anything but and can be seen as such when they cover crime against immigrants. apparently a black man cant be mugged cause he's wearing a nice suit and some scumbag thinks he's got a full wallet, no ,it has to be a "race crime". where as if you get mugged that's just the state of the country.
also when the asylum system turns up the fact that 90% plus of the asylum seekers in the country are lying their arses off (CSO figures lad's, check em out

) its cause our judges are racist. nothing at all to do with the human habit of exploiting systems that are open to abuse . you know like when people used to sign on in 5 of 6 different dole offices back in the 90's

irish people on the whole are no more racist of bigoted than anyone else but there is a clique of individuals in the media and political circles who dont live in the same world as the other 80% of us on 35k a year or less, or compete with these communities for jobs so to them were racists while theyre the ones living in what still amounts to a monocultural ireland made up of what they'd term middle and upper class people i.e rich white.:D

plus since we're not butchering each other up the north anymore they need something to sell newspapers with which is why they push the line that things have never been so dangerous.:D

of course there is also the fact that thank christ most irish people still speak their mind and have managed to resist the culture of political correctness that the aforementioned groups have fallen into (honestly "non national", what the **** does that mean in real terms?, theyre foreigners! its not a dirty word, im one too when i go to another country!!) so we can still have people using the time honered tradition in a slagging match of picking on the most obvious traits someone has and attaching an expleative i.e "your a black bastard!".
this incase you havent noticed isnt racist. anymore than if you said "your a fat/bald/ugly/blind bastard!".
this doesnt means you have a deep felt hatred for fat/bald/ugly/blind people. its just means your pissed off and want to hurt them emotionally

ferdi

constitutionus, great post. nice to see some people recognise whats going on.:)

Kipperhell

Hobbes wrote:

Which are generalisations. It's like saying Irish are renowed for being drunks, so therefore every Irish person I meet is always drunk?

It is true that the irish are/were drunks when abroad. I worked in London on Paddy's day in a bar and have seen it. I have seen it in the streets of Dublin. Just because it is a generalisation doesn't mean it is not true. I never said just becasue a statement is made means it applies to all just that if is prevalent in a social group considering it isn't racist.
If people who look like hippies tend to smoke hash is it wrong to think somebody who looks like a hippy smokes hash? I think it is realistic.

Hobbes wrote:

Actually a thread on this some time back and there is also a government report on it that showed that Nigerian links to drugs trade is quite small in comparison to Irish and other demographics, just that nigerians are easier to spot.

I specifically mentioned Crack Cocaine in Dublin which is linked direclty to Nigerian gangs. If you read the report you would see that was mentioned. Considering the proportion of nigerians compared to Irish born people it would be absolutley shocking if it was a large portion.

Hobbes wrote:

Yes if it was actually happening. I am not aware of the minimum wage being lowered? Are you?

Did I say the minimum wage was lowered? Although I am aware that jobs that paid more than the minimum wage now pay the minimum wage as they can get foreign workers doing the jobs. This is what I meant. Other people have pointed out that getting a part time job is difficult now too. So it is happening you just aren't aware of it.

Hobbes wrote:

I am curious where you heard this from? If anything immigrants are joining existing unions.

I heard it at a union training seminar I went to from hotel union shop stuarts. Immigrants won't join unions in most cases according to these stuarts. So I am basing it on people working in industry and union reports what are you basing it on?

As these are semi-skilled jobs the poorer people tend to lose out. The poor tend to be poorly educated and the poorly educated tend to be racist. Imigrants tend to live in poorer areas. Not a good combination going forward.

Hobbes wrote:

Hmmm, Irish are renowned for being drunks and wife beaters and full of single mothers. Is it racist to assume the next person from Ireland will be the same?

Actually Irealnd is know to have a portion of the population that act this way and it it is true to an extent. It would not be wrong to say that the poor and poorly educated population of Ireland tend to be aggressive and abuse alcohol. I never heard Ireland was a country full of single mothers but I know we have a higher rate than many other countries so it sounds pluasable.
As your clumsy example doesn't actually enlighten me about the evils of assuming things try and understand that I get the problem. My point is that you don't put blinkers on to stick to an ideal situation you would like to think exists. The Irish Civil Service will not recognise Nigerian qualification due to forgery and corruption due to it being fact yet I have heard people claim this is rascism. Irish people tend to fight authority is a fact. The french eat garlic a lot and drink wine.

You just criticise reality and stick your head in the sand.

As for people saying London is a great Multi-cultural place that is directly against my personal experience and anything I read about the place after leaving there. The UK government are try to address this and ther first complaint is multi-cultural society is the wrong way to go as you need an inter-cultural environment. I had never been racilly abused anywhere in the world except England and especially London.

Gaspode

Hey
The Irish are racists. So what, all humans are racist to some degree. Humans have an inbuilt need to 'belong' and as a result, have an inbuilt fear/hatred of anyone who doesnt belong.

So we create groups that we want to belong to and show loyaly to - family, circle(s) of friends, our neighbourhood, our side of the city, our county, our province, our country, this football team, that rugby team, and so on and so forth.

So yes, the Irish are racist. So what.

Tha Gopher

Again, it’s the same with every issue. Whether its racism, crime, drugs, travellers, education, you name it, the people who talk the loudest are usually the people who know the least. You only have to check out the threads on AH Humanities and Politics in relation to those topics to see how completely and utterly removed from the real world some people are. Personally if I were a minority Id be embarrassed at the nonsense RAR gets up to (unless they were supporting me in some trumped up claim against whatever state body- I wouldn’t feel right about it but hey, money is money). Does RAR and Pavee Point not realise that by campaigning for the likes of Frog Ward and repeat offenders like that Kunle guy that theyre only harming themselves? If the main traveller group in this country is demanding justice for a repeat offender who was robbing an elderly man, it doesnt give a good impression. If the travellers who are tasked with representing their community at national level give veiled support to this scumbag, what must the rest be like? That, at least, is the impression it gives.

A friend of mine who came up from the country needed a hostel for the night. He walked the length and breath of the inner city before one place on Gardiner Street finally offered him one, and even at that the guy behind the desk said he normally didn’t take Irish. Now, in fairness, this is with good reason, as the places have had innumerable problems with junkies and alcoholics causing trouble during their stay, the vast majority of whom are Irish. However, refusing travellers permission to a pub in the west based on bad experience in the past is an offence these days. Once again, descisions made by people with absoloutely no experience of the issue (or life in general). Or, in the case of some media, completely dodging the issue. Example: Ive seldom seen a Garda appeal that describes someone as having a "traveller accent" or "was what the victim described as being of traveller appearance". Is it disallowed? Not long ago there was a case in England were a group of Irish lads at some sort of horse trading fair attacked some girls. Now, whilst I cant recall the exact details reading between the lines of the report it was blatantly obvious which grouping the suspects came from. Whilst the BBC report mentioned that they were probably travellers RTE merely described them as Irish. On the last Crimewatch, two men wanted for a fatal hit and run of a Scottish child were described as travellers, something you wouldnt get on RTE. Regarding sensitivity, honestly, people need to fecking relax. I can laugh at jokes that portray the Irish as alcoholics, why cant everyone else be as laid back (check out the Nally thread in Humour, quality

)

I could take what Hobbes said re life experience as an ageist comment tbh……

As for generalisations, is there honestly, really anything with them if they are, for the most part, true? Generally speaking, Irish people drink at a level that in the likes of Spain and Greece would be considered by many to be problem use, dependency. Ive no links to a survey of Greeks and Spaniards that shows that 83% agree that 10 pints on a Friday or Saturday night once per week is indicative of problem drinking. But we know from talking to folks from

BLITZ_Molloy

I must confess to enjoying reading the Indo so if you're prejudiced against me just scroll on to the next post.

I think the Irish are a particularly vocal crowd. And we don't tend to pay too much attention to PC values (and I thank my lucky stars for this every day) so we can come across badly sometimes. But at least we talk about things and don't pussy foot about the issue. Better to risk insulting foreigners than to ignore them. And I think the Irish are doing a much better job of at least trying to interact with immigrants instead of isolating them. We're all nosy bastards and I think you'd be hard pressed to be lonely in this country.

As far as representation in the media I think it's largely negative. But hey, it's always ****ing negative. That's why I don't like watching news on the television. And just skip the parts of the newspaper that are pointless doom mongering.

That said, did anybody catch RTE's show about the Brazillians in Gort, Co. Galway? There are about 700 of them officially. Probably alot more. The village has been transformed in the last 5 years and the show had a very positive spin on the situation.

Flukey

Tha Gopher wrote:

Well, I think anyone on boards in Dublin aged 18-20 will agree that immigrant labour has made finding part time work a hard task.

The middle aged PC heads on here (well, mid aged as in 30-36) will throw up the previous report which says that immigration has had zero effect on job opportunities for Irish people. However, peoiple should note that these people are actually tossers with zero real life experience, even when they themselves were 18 they had none. They have their nice comfy jobs now, so its grand to roar racist at an 18 year old pissed off even Dunnes wont hire him.

Gopher, just like you, many of us thirtysomethings could not find work when we were 18 to 20. Why? Because there were no jobs at all. Those of you that are 18 - 20 now, will obviously not know much about the 80s. There were no immigrants coming in then to "steal our jobs", as people like to put it these days. The Irish were immigrants then, going to other countries all over the world. Go to any of the main Irish airports over the last few days and what will you see? You'll see thousands of Irish that emigrated back at that time - perhaps you'd prefer to think of them as people going to other countries to steal jobs - returning home for Christmas.

Anyone that is 18 to 20 now has basically grown up during the so-called Celtic Tiger. It wasn't always like this. When we were 18 to 20, there were very few people driving around in flash cars, there were very few kids being brought off on fancy holidays. Computers were not the same then, but there were some around, but very few kids had them. They didn't have colour Tvs in their bedrooms or any of the nice luxuries that you take for granted now. It was a very different country, I can tell you.

Did you ever watch Reeling in the Years, particularly the ones of the 1980s? The ones where mass emigration from the country was the norm? That was the time that when they left school or college, the next thing an awful lot of people did was get on a plane out of here as fast as they could, because there wasn't much point in even looking for work.

As you say, lots of the people in their 30s now have nice cosy jobs. They have those nice cosy jobs in New York or Melbourne or London or Rome or wherever, because they could not get them here in Ireland. A lot of us did stay, like myself - though I did not have any great job back then either - and a lot are now returning, which is great. We now have thousands of people coming into the country, which is the sign of a very good economy. Those of us that are in our 30s have seen both sides of it. We've seen the economy in a state that has thousands of people leaving the country and we have seen the economy in a state that has thousands people coming into the country. I know which one I'd prefer. You think it is bad now. When you see thousands of people leaving this country, like in the 1980s, that is when it will be really hard to get a job.

Dunnes may be hiring immigrants now making it harder for you to get a job, and that is what is pissing you off, and we can understand that. But back then they were hardly hiring anyone at all! Yes, it is a cliche and it always comes from someone who is older than you, and so you dismiss it, but it is true nevertheless: you don't know how lucky this country is now, compared to when those of us now in our 30s were 18 - 20. A lot more of us would tell you that, but you see a lot of us are off living in other countries now - having stolen someone's job! Keep looking for that job, you'll find it. There are an awful lot more of them out there now compared to when those of us in our 30s were 18 to 20. As I said earlier, when you see thousands of people leaving this country and no one coming in, that is when it will be really hard to get a job. We don't need reports to tell us that immigrants coming in is good for creating jobs, because despite what you think, having lived through the 80s, we have that "real life experience".

Tha Gopher

Probably shouldve phrased that better Flukey, it wasnt an attack on the 30 plus, it was just that most of the hard core bunch who spout the most bizarre, off the wall opinions on the matter are from this age group. And, regarding the 1980s, you get the impression from the posts most are from a social class/background that felt little or no impact of the recession. Sorry about that

I see where your coming from. Englands policies re their jobs market benefited us. However, this doesnt necessarily mean that they were right. Unemployed brickies from Newcastle Manchester etc etc found themselves in London competing for work with constantly arriving Irish. Now, its good that the English allowed this. However, it was at the expense of their own people. The result was good, the planning wasnt. And now you have god knows how much NHS money spent treating elderly Irish alcoholics. Its much the same as, for example the beef trade. While our agri sector had a rough 90s, it could have been worse. Appaling UK government regulation of meat safety meant Irish beef became renowned as some of the safest in Europe. Again, we benefitted from the Brits not doing their job. Likewise, several towns around London have huge social/crime problems with large encampments of Irish travellers. Because the English have failed to pull the finger out, the Irish taxpayer saves god knows how much in garda and benefit spending from these people no longer living here.

Zillah

I find that a lot of Irish people are racist. But its a very light hearted racism. They might make awful comments to their friends, maybe even jeer someone when they're drunk, but when it comes down to it and they have a school/college friend who is foreign, or a co-worker, or a neighbour, and that person happens to be nice AND foreign, their racism seems to kind of evaporate.

InFront

I agree with Zillah, most people seem to have a sort of discrimination that causes them to comment on or notice racial and ethnic differences more easily, but isnt actually hateful. I have honestly never actually known a racist Irish person. Well, like anyone Ive heard comments from busdrivers and some others which would reflect that they are racists, but I certainly dont know any racists.

In fact, one of the most comforting things that you see (only with young people in my experience) is a jeer being made of racial stereotypes and tendancies, e.g. a Chinese roomate at my friends apartment is contiuously the butt of Chinese jokes, and he reciprocates in kind. Such things are proof of a society really comfortable with its multisulturalism.

However, it sometimes only takes one or two dumbass threads on AH to make one reconsider whether ireland is actually more racist than it might appear. But anyway, I doubt it.

Judt

The "They took our jibs" argument doesn't wash, really. The majority of those looking for work in Dunnes, Tesco etc are teenagers who will turnover within a few months anyways - it's not like you're being deprived of some great human right without that €8.15 an hour to pay for the Friday night pissup. Nowadays Irish 18 - 20 year olds are in college, from which they graduate to a job paying better money than what mom and dad were earning combined when you were born. Johnny Polak ain't nicking those jobs in great numbers.

Still, as I said earlier I wouldn't take the teenagers and early 20somethings acting racist at much value - maturity and higher paying jobs after the Dunnes years temper those views.

exiztone

Judt wrote:

The "They took our jibs" argument doesn't wash, really. The majority of those looking for work in Dunnes, Tesco etc are teenagers who will turnover within a few months anyways - it's not like you're being deprived of some great human right without that €8.15 an hour to pay for the Friday night pissup. Nowadays Irish 18 - 20 year olds are in college, from which they graduate to a job paying better money than what mom and dad were earning combined when you were born. Johnny Polak ain't nicking those jobs in great numbers.

Still, as I said earlier I wouldn't take the teenagers and early 20somethings acting racist at much value - maturity and higher paying jobs after the Dunnes years temper those views.

Actually, it's a bigger problem than you think. Even though the government will pay your 4 years in a public college/university, you still have to live. I tried keeping up a parttime job during the term, and I found it too difficult. When you quit, it means you have to go looking again during your last term. Most places don't like students because they're going to leave when college starts up after the summer so they'll stick with the Eastern European.

I think it's a serious issue anyway as not everybody has their parents supporting them financially. Maybe the state should have a programme for students to find work just for the summer?

lilrayosunshine

Well said foyc.. I agree with almost all of your points there!

Tha Gopher

Judt wrote:

The "They took our jibs" argument doesn't wash, really. The majority of those looking for work in Dunnes, Tesco etc are teenagers who will turnover within a few months anyways - it's not like you're being deprived of some great human right without that €8.15 an hour to pay for the Friday night pissup. Nowadays Irish 18 - 20 year olds are in college, from which they graduate to a job paying better money than what mom and dad were earning combined when you were born. Johnny Polak ain't nicking those jobs in great numbers.

Still, as I said earlier I wouldn't take the teenagers and early 20somethings acting racist at much value - maturity and higher paying jobs after the Dunnes years temper those views.

You are not for real. You cant be. You think that people who dont have "proper jobs" dont need jobs full stop? If you read my earlier post, I did say that those on the pro side are usually 30 odd, who seem to come from the silver spoon side of town. Seeing as it sounds as if your parents provided you with money for food, drinking, clothes, possibly rent, until the age of 24 it proves the point. So young people dont deserve money to have a social life? Im sure you must have been the life and soul of any party back in the day. Believe it or not back in the days before I had a job (15 or whatever) Id have thought the same as you. Id read the paper seeing that there are so many thousand unfilled job positions and think, bring them in. Its only when you get a bit older and go out looking for work you realise its not all as easy as some article in the Indo told you. Myself, I never disliked "them" for taking "my" job. If i as from a new EU state Id probably be here as well. However, I disliked Bertie Ahern for his ridicilous failure to stop the free movement like nearly all the rest of the EU that allowed it to happen mind. It seems that someone cant highlight a genuine concern about an issue without being labelled racist. I recall one thread asking whether it was wise to be allowing people to come in from countries with huge HIV rates and allowing them free movement. OP called a racist for it (Id be of the opinion that anyone who said that deserves to die from AIDS themselves but anyway). Another thread mentioning how East Europeans seem to disproportionately involved in drink driving cases. Again, OP= racist. Again, those who said it would be best off being run over by one for the sake of irony. There was a case where two oddly dressed muslim men were ordered off a plane from Ibiza iirc because the passengers refused to fly with them. On the thread regarding it on boards, I was labelled racist for simply saying that I wouldnt particularly want to fly with two men who were wearing bulky jackets in the Spanish sunshine (the irony being, of course, that the two men in question admitted that on reflection their behaviour may have come off as odd, and that they bore no ill will to those who threw them off. Racist against themselves were they?). Someone earlier mentioned an Irishman in the UK suing because he was refused a job because the employer assumed he might come to work drunk from the night before. Whilst I wouldnt particularly like to be refused on these grounds, its a fact that any employer hiring the likes of the Irish/Poles should be aware that its likely they will come in with heavy heads on occasion, compared to, say, Chinese and Spanish staff.

foyc wrote:

To be honest, from thousands of Irish people over the years that have come out with the stereotypical rants about the travellers and their ways, I have only met possibly one or two, out of thousands that are totally cool with travellers.

Although travellers are 100% Irish, the general Irish population actually are more welcoming of the new eastern block settlers and don't discriminate as much as they would do with the travellers.

Same with me, Ive only ever met two with the view that they can be grand. Both of those people are from Finglas, where the inhabitants of one halt are apparently generally fine (not Dunsink obviously, I think its the one situated near the back road to Blanch theyre referring to).

As for the Poles etc people dont discriminate against the new settlers as much because they dont have a long history of crime and benefit dependancy in this country, simple as. IIRC the prison population of foreign nationals is roughly the same as their proportion of the Irish population who are young males (the main group that ends up inside). Travellers on the other hand make up between 3% and 10% of the jail population (the lower being one I read online, the upper one quoted by a journo who wrote s book on the matter recently). Racism is one thing, holding a negative view because of real world experience is quite another.

Laslo

I'm a total racist. I don't want any Turks living in this country. I don't want any Somalis, Ethopians, Morroccans, Algerians or Nigerians living here. They're considerably more likely to be violent criminals than most other nationalities. Sadly this makes me a racist scumbag. It also makes me a realist. Take your choice.

InFront

Given what Ive seen of Dublin gangland killings recently, I infer that I dont want any white irish people living here anymore.

Flukey

Yes, we should all leave Ireland at once. That'll solve all the problems. Right so, that's settled. Once the New Year's Eve party is over, we will all emigrate. Last one out, turn the lights off! Oh, and wherever you end up going, do behave yourselves! We don't want to be giving the Irish a bad name, and when apply for a job, make sure that absolutely no one else in the country wants it! Right, I am off to start packing. Bye!

Flukey

There is easily enough room for 8 million, and more. Ireland is not very densely populated. There was 8 million here at the time of the famine don't forget. The greater Dublin area is well populated, but there are large parts of the rest of the country that aren't. More economic development is needed in those areas and a shift away from the Dublin area of some of the population would be good for Dublin.

the_syco

When we called the British bas*ards, it was accepted.

When we called a black men bas*ards, we were called racists.

8 million here at the time of the famine don't forget

Living in poor squalid conditions, don't forget:p

Take the main language used. That is English. Plus all the media - newspapers and television and film etc.

Aye, speaking English became a hugh hit around the time that if you didn't speak English, you didn't get a job...:rolleyes:

The tri-colour came about in 1916, and only came a ROI state flag when we got full rule of the 26 counties.

=-=

If someone lives in Poland, worked 2 jobs, they'd get a quater of what they get over here, on a wage just over minimum wage. Sorry, no link, I learnt this from talking to one of them, asking them why do they love this country when it costs so much. As they say they "live like a king here", and drives a car.

If the chinese get minimum wage, and sends a 3rd of their monthly wage back home, their family back home can live comfortably off that 3rd.

dSTAR

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

Those over 30, 40 or 50, may not be as liberal, as to them, this might all be a case of too much, too fast...

Steady on!

I am in my late 30's and I reckon younger people can be as shut off from the world around them - sometimes even more so.

At a certain age you begin to accept things a lot more; have (hopefully) experienced a bit of the world and have become more tolerant of other nationalities.

Recently I traveled around Japan. We met up with a group of fellow travelers from other countries and hung out with them for a while.

The age of the people in the group ranged from 19 up to 50+. I couldn't help but notice that the younger people were less inclined to sample the food and even made fun of the Japanese and their cuisine.

I thought why bother even come to the country if you are going to make stupid jokes about Japanese people and eat McDonalds!

Laslo

foyc wrote:

If Laslo is from the West of Ireland, then his ancestors are more than likely North African, probably Algeria.

To hate yourself is probably the worst hate of all.

Yeah, because as we all know loads of Algerians settled in Spiddle and Tralee back in the dark ages. They traded pink elephants with settlers from Turkmenistan, who mainly settled in Dublin and were responsible for opening the first McDonalds on O'Connell Street.