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bigger bus needed

loyatemu

getting off the 1820 Gorey train yesterday evening, quite a lot of people were left behind by the Charlesland bus due to lack of space.

this was partly because they had the smaller bus on (though the other one isn't much bigger), and also the train was late so some people who normally get the next Dart were probably on it.

Nonetheless the numbers using the bus service is only ever going to increase and its only a matter of time before people are left behind in the morning, making them late for work etc.

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Bertie

It may be the case that a bigger bus is needed but it has come to light that commuters from other areas a re now parking in charlesland and using it also.I just heard the whole bus issue is up for review as some residents dont use it and Dublin bus wont provide a service while it exists.

Charlie-Bravo

Yeah, that bus last night was tiny. I had to go to the train station to pick people up cause they couldn't get on the bus. I agree that the system needs to be reviewed. I don't use the bus that often myself (except for the odd lift up to the pub in the evening!) but if they removed the service then we would be left with gridlock in the town and around the junction at Script pub.

People are not going to pay fares on Dublin Bus just to go up to the Village. They would rather drive to the park and ride, if they have a car. The bus service works very well but I have to agree the bus yesterday was not suitable.

I think most people who were left at the station yesterday thought if they wanted a lift back they would have to wait until the next train to arrived in. Maybe we could suggest that the bus keeps running at 15 minutes intervals and this occurring more so in the morning?

Sparks115

In relation to people who are not from Charlesland using the buses. This has been brought to the attention of the management committee and they were asked to get either a card pass system in place or a key fob and anyone not holding one would not be allowed on the bus. It has been noted there are a LOT of non Charlesland residents parking in Superquinn and near the round about in the morning and parking there and using the bus that we pay for!! Hopefully they will resolve the issue soon as it is getting colder and there are only going to be more and more people using it once the Park is finished.

loyatemu

well the next Dart after the Gorey train is only 15 minutes later, and last night it would've been less as the first train was late, so he would've had to turn around and go straight back anyway.

I think the bus service is pretty good - I know some people want to see it running all day and at weekends, but the reality is it would be very lightly used at those times and it would cost a lot more to run. We could do with having a school run after the last run to the station at 0805, but there might be legal issues with having a service specifically for schoolchildren (seatbelts, etc)

Off-peak what's needed is for Dublin Bus to revamp their local services. Kilcoole is also very badly served - extra services to Kilcoole via Charlesland would be a good solution (might also make it easier to get back from the pub!)

I can't believe there are that many non-charleslanders using the bus though. If I was driving from say, Kilcoole or Newcastle, why would I park in Charlesland and wait for the bus, when i could drive to the park and ride and walk to the station (its only 2 minutes walk). If a pass system is introduced, what do you do if you have visitors who might want to use the bus?

B.Rubble

The numbers using the bus has definitely been on the rise over the last 3-4 months.

The 7.50am and the 8.15am buses are also getting seriously jammed. Any more growth in numbers and people are going to get left behind facing a half an hour walk to the Dart or wait for the next bus. I don't think this has happened yet, but I have been on buses in the morning that literally could not take a single other passenger.

I can live with the odd walk home in the evenings if the bus is full... but its a bit much if those paying for the service end up half an hour late for work because of an increasing number of freeloaders.

Its a great service and I'm really happy to have it and pay for it as part of our mgmt fee...but there's trouble brewing here.

BTW (I've never been 100% clear on this) is it true that only the Wood is paying for the costs of the service?

mikedragon32

No. All of Charlesland is paying for it.

I walked down to the station this morning and the bus passed by so full I was glad I didn't take it!

If non-residents are taking the bus, that needs to be addressed urgently. A pass system might be a good option.

Eoin

mikedragon32 wrote:

No. All of Charlesland is paying for it.

As are the Fairways I believe (or whatever the blocks of apartments on the other side of the road are called).

I'd have to agree with loyatemu - why on earth would someone eschew the free park and ride a couple of minutes away from the station, and park in an estate 20 mins walk away and wait for a crammed bus???

loyatemu

the only circumstances under which it would be worthwhile for a non-resident to get the bus would be if there are people walking down from Eden Gate and then getting the bus the rest of the way.

For any non-resident with a car it would surely be quicker and easier to drive to the P&R.

The bus is full because Charlesland is nearly fully occupied now and the bus is too small. A pass system would be a nightmare to administer.

matt-dublin

bus passes are the onlyl way to go!!!

everyeone's using it.
its taking the piss

Manny7

Are there sometimes two buses in the morning? I missed the 7.30 bus on Friday, and vaguely remembered someone on here mentioned a 7.45 bus. It turned out to be the smaller bus and we passed the bigger bus coming down so they both seemed to be running. Would it be a possibilty to do two buses for each rush-hour train?

loyatemu

matt-dublin wrote:

bus passes are the onlyl way to go!!!

everyeone's using it.
its taking the piss

do you have any evidence of this?
and who should get the passes - owners, tenants, staff in the shopping centre. Do you take the passes back when people leave charlesland?

matt-dublin

Ìf the management companies sent out applications to all the houses asking how many passes are needed per household. The shopping centre don't contribute to the bus so why should they use it?

I live up in the crescent and have seen people driving up the spine from the link road, parking getting out and waiting for the bus...

I've stopped using the bus because i found it annoying, i use the p&r now.

Wifey

Well I deffinately agree with the pass system, I'll start using it on a regular basis as I am starting a new job & there is no parking, and I would be VERY annoyed :mad: if I wasnt able to get on it either from Charlesland or From the station.

What could be done in the meantime is get the Bus Company to put a sign on the bus to say " Residents of charlesland Only" and then the driver to ask randomly people getting on to confirm number & estate they are in? Only a thought.

Another option is to get the comittee to Query the residents & see who is using it on a regular basis, so that an estimation can be made for use on a daily basis, also to include the times people use the trains, As getting a bigger bus and increasing the service the company may decide to increase the charge, which falls back on everyone.... not just the regular users. And those that dont use it will have more to complain about, but if it is justified, then they can't give out...???

loyatemu

sending out forms, querying the residents - neither of these options is manageable or sustainable in an estate of 1400+ dwellings where people are constantly moving in and out. And you can get the driver to ask, but I don't think his english is too good and people could lie anyway.

I've no problem with superquinn staff using the bus as they're likely to be going the opposite way to regular commuters. If other people are parking in Charlesland to get the bus then they're idiots, but I'd say the numbers are very small.

If the existing company can't supply a bigger bus then we should talk to Finnegans or someone else.

mikedragon32

A quick look around the P&R at Script would give you a good enough reason why people might prefer to use the Charlesland bus. There's debris from smashed car windows all over it (or at least there was last time I was there).

Passes wouldn't be a difficult system to administer. The managing agents simply need to spend a couple of nights going door to door asking how many passes are needed and issuing them on the spot. Allow a transition period for everyone to get them, and then simply enforce it.

As for visitors not being able to get the bus, so what? I personally would be more annoyed about people who are paying for the service being unable to get the bus than I would be about someone visiting having to miss out.

I doubt if the majority of people leaving Charlesland are likely to bother with the service once they leave, so them retaining their passes isn't going to be a major issue. Given we pay an annual charge, perhaps the passes could be annual passes to counteract such an occurrence?

loyatemu

plenty of people do use the P&R so i doubt the security situation is that bad.

As for spending a "couple of nights" going door-to-door, maybe you should have a word with one of the census enumerators to find out how practical that is.

There may be some outsiders using the bus (I doubt if its more than a handful), but the primary reason it is overcrowded is because of charlesland residents using it. The most practical, simplest solution is a bigger bus.

B.Rubble

Have to say that annual passes for the bus sound like a good idea.

I'd also agree that I'd be less concerned about those going to Superquinn and vistors to the estate than I would be about the actual residents who are paying for the service.

The system could be fairly simply done with say 2 / 3 passes sent directly to each unit annually along with a form to be filled out for more if required.

There will always by people who lose or forget these but, if there are people outside the area using the service, the system would probably put them off doing so on a daily basis.

B.Rubble

But just to clarify ...

If its just us in Charlesland that are causing the problem (i.e. growing numbers), then the only solution is a bigger bus!

Wifey

Sorry if I didn’t clarify myself earlier, when I referred to "Committee”, I meant for each individual estate i.e. the wood, the park the grove etc. As each individual committee have meetings with the other committee’s & it spreads the workload. These Communal meetings are proving very successful, especially with the result of the traffic management project being put into place. The other reasoning was to establish the current requirement and take into account the request for the bus hours to be extended.

At the end of the day, we pay the management company for this & based on the rep from the AGM, if he is as proactive as he claims to be, then it should be quite simple to send out a simple form to each house; asking for amount of passes required along with bus/ train times frequently used. Also, if there is a requirement for School kids. To ensure no household is missing out on this, a reminder can be sent with the annual invoice.

It will then identify the need for a bigger bus & the need to extend the hours if required.

Once the numeric & logistics have been established, we can then discuss this with the current bus company & if needs be open it to other companies. Whatever way we look at it; it will cost us more, however saying that, as we still don’t have the breakdown of costs for 2005, we don’t know!

foxy06

Personally I think the 84 should just be diverted so it passes Charlesland via the road with all the roundabouts. I can't see that many people using it up that back road, and certainly not as many as would be using it from Charlesland with the 1400 dwellings. That way the residents only pay for their own individual bus uses and the people who are around Charlesland during the day have access to transport (to bring children to and from school for instance).

mikedragon32

loyatemu wrote:

plenty of people do use the P&R so i doubt the security situation is that bad.

As for spending a "couple of nights" going door-to-door, maybe you should have a word with one of the census enumerators to find out how practical that is.

There may be some outsiders using the bus (I doubt if its more than a handful), but the primary reason it is overcrowded is because of charlesland residents using it. The most practical, simplest solution is a bigger bus.

Where the census enumerators failed is that they have to get a response at every dwelling.

The simple approach would be that where someone going door to door gets a response, passes are provided and were no contact is made a letter advising of a process to get passes is left.

B. Rubbles suggestion that every property just gets some passes by default each year is also a good one.

The only reason I never mentioned the need for a bigger bus is because I think that's a given! Maybe even a double decker should be provided at this stage?

Plenty

I know for a fact that non-Charleslanders are using the shuttle bus, but it is the fault of the driver that lets them on the bus.

When the bus is waiting at the train station for the train to arrive, people who have to travel to Mill Road, Burnaby Lawns, etc will ask the driver to drop them at the roundabout before travelling up the dual carrigeway and the driver allows it. So if these people chance their arm once and get away with it, they'll keep doing it.

loyatemu

Plenty wrote:

I know for a fact that non-Charleslanders are using the shuttle bus, but it is the fault of the driver that lets them on the bus.

When the bus is waiting at the train station for the train to arrive, people who have to travel to Mill Road, Burnaby Lawns, etc will ask the driver to drop them at the roundabout before travelling up the dual carrigeway and the driver allows it. So if these people chance their arm once and get away with it, they'll keep doing it.

I'd say I've seen this happen maybe 3 times since I moved in 18 months ago, and on each occassion it was 1 person on the bus, so it is not a significant problem.

Distributing passes to every house in the estate would be expensive and pointless - its using a sledgehammer to crack an egg. With so many passes floating around, and no way to link them back to an individual they would inevitably end up in the hands of non-residents anyway.

there's two problems:

1 - Some morning and evening buses are overcrowded - solution: bigger bus.
2 - No off-peak service. Only realistic solution is for Dublin bus to provide a service. To run the shuttle bus throughout the day and at the weekends would be MASSIVELY more expensive. At the moment we have the part-time use of a bus and a driver. To run a full-time service would require the full-time use of the bus and at least 3 drivers. I use the bus regularly but I wouldn't be willing to pay for that level of service, and people who don't use the bus certainly wouldn't.

mikedragon32

Nobody has suggested a full-time service.

Frankly, if the bus didn't exist at all, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

I use the bus maybe once or twice a month as I usually drive to town, and on quite a few occasions I've seen people take the bus to the first roundabout (and also to Script!). It doesn't matter if it's only one person taking the bus who shouldn't be, if it means one person who's paying for the service has to wait for the next bus or walk home.

B.Rubble

I have no idea how much sending passes around to everyone in Charlesland would cost but I can only imagine that it has to be a fraction of the cost of extending the bus timetable to full time service weekdays or for the full week.

I don't think that the pass system is a perfect solution, but a good few of the people on this thread - Mike / Bertie / Plenty / Inch - reckon that there are at least some non-Charleslanders using the bus. Right now the service is close to capacity and I reckon we (who are paying for it) might be able to avoid having to pay the heavy extra cost of extra / bigger buses by enforcing this as a Charlesland resident only service.

Funny ... but it seems to me that putting on extra buses is treating the symptom and not the problem. I don't think there are too many new houses or apt.s left to come online in the estate so maybe we could work with the service we have with a little better management.

loyatemu

mikedragon32 wrote:

Nobody has suggested a full-time service.

The Wood residents meeting was discussing extending the service - its not clear to what extent they want it extended

I use the bus maybe once or twice a month as I usually drive to town, and on quite a few occasions I've seen people take the bus to the first roundabout (and also to Script!).

easily fixed - tell the driver not to drop anyone en route.

B.Rubble wrote:

Funny ... but it seems to me that putting on extra buses is treating the symptom and not the problem. I don't think there are too many new houses or apt.s left to come online in the estate so maybe we could work with the service we have with a little better management.

not suggesting extra buses, just a bigger one. The yellow bus they currently use is a mid-sized bus, the beige one is smaller again. That company may not have a bigger vehicle available but the likes of Finnegans probably do.