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Child Item

Do Americans get poorly treated in Ireland?

MrJoeSoap

I was watching Seoige and O'Shea yesterday (for shame) and they had a few Americans on talking about fairly random stuff it has to be said. One of the guests, however, mentioned how he had tripped up getting onto a Dublin Bus and said 'sorry' to a person he had fallen into and the driver. The drivers response was "The only thing you have to be sorry for is Bush". To be honest, I've lost count of the number of times I've heard American people living in Ireland blamed for GW.

As well as this, hardly a day goes by on boards without some sort of comment along the lines of "Those stupid Americans" etc...

Now in all fairness, I dislike Bush as much as the next Joe Soap, but to criticise someone from the States purely on hearing a voice etc... says more about the person criticising than it does the American! We don't really have any issues with British people, Pakistani people (apart from the occasional moronic racism) and so on, despite any opposition we might have to their governments.

Do other people see this as a problem/issue? Any anecdotes to back me up or oppose me?

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dr.bollocko

netwhizkid wrote:

Not to go to far off topic but if the Americans re-elect the Republicans this week they deserve every single torrent of abuse thrown at them. The Republican's are the most evil and corrupt party on the Planet any fool could see that, they even make Fianna Fail look good *shudders*

But they elected Bush.
And then re-elected him.
Didnt everyone say "Well, what ever happens now, they brought it on themselves" then as well?
See?
They brought it on themselves!
I wouldnt ever go up to an American and roar about Bush, or even bring up the topic, because america is a patriotic country and that would be offensive, even if they were anti-Bush.

NeMiSiS

Was in America for a good while too. I'd say 99% of the people I met were lovely, friendly people, great to talk to, and very accomadating. For the most part I found, you were made to feel welcome, and they took pride in the same. The muesems etc I was in were just incredable.

But I would say yes, Americans get poorly treated in Ireland. Lot's of people get poorly treated in Ireland, regardless of you nationality, includiing the Irish. That's what makes this country great, you don't have to be special to be trated like crap.

TK

MrJoeSoap

dr.bollocko wrote:

But they elected Bush.

Did they though?

Dinxminx

Americans are mostly very, very gullible. Some people might see this as stupidity. Apart from that, they elected George Bush, TWICE, and I would have no issue with any americans who had voted for him if it only affected them. But their electing Bush has affected Afghanis, Iraqis, and journalists and soldiers from a lot of countries. Their electing Bush means that right now there are people being held in Guatanamo, suffering, who may or may not be innocent, but are being tortured all the same.

Until they elect a decent president who can make coherent speeches and not completely f*ck up the world, I reserve the right to think any american who voted for Bush is stupid.

Democrat Americans are fine.

5starpool

There are idiots and racists everywhere, largely the whole 'I'm not racist but...' brigade. The famous Dublin 'wit' is not what it is cracked up to be.

I have spent quite a bit of time in America over the last few years and while there are certainly the really inward stupid people among them, there are also the insightful, intelligent and witty among them too, same as everywhere.

In a country that big and populous, it is quite common for people never to have experienced another country firsthand, and also never to have been exposed to any other media viewpoints which in fairness is where most people get their sense of morality and decency or otherwise from (largely becasue this is where their parents got it). If you are only exposed to one viewpoint you will only know one way. If I am ever anywhere and have the opportunity to talk to people from other nationalities, then Americans are about as decent as you can find.

free2fly

I visit Ireland 4 - 5 times a year and I have to say that I have never been treaed disrespectfully while there. For the most part people have been very friendly. Of course, I made no bones about the fact that I think GWB is a complete idiot.

To be honest, I think it is completely unfair to blame all Americans for what our government does. It may be a democracy, but my vote did little to stop what they were doing in Iraq, even though I was deeply against it. Now the people who don't vote here have no right to complain, but I did vote. And I also let my Congressman and Senator know how I felt. So I'd like to ask, knowing my feelings and what I have done to show my disapproval, would any of the posters here shout abuse at me and tell me that I deserve everything that is thrown at me?

MrJoeSoap

Dinxminx wrote:

Democrat Americans are fine.

You can't simply draw a line between Democrats and Republicans and say one group is stupid and one group isn't, its just not that simple.

Dinxminx

No of course not. Just the Bush-lovers. And the war-supporters. And those who believed in those elusive WMDs.

YOU we like very much.

Dinxminx

MrJoeSoap wrote:

You can't simply draw a line between Democrats and Republicans and say one group is stupid and one group isn't, its just not that simple.

I know. I'm not trying to make it so black and white. I'm sure there are very intelligent republicans and very smart Bush supporters, just as there are stupid democrats, but the fact that they support Bush means I just can't like them as much as I should because goddamit they're blindly following a complete idiot!

free2fly

Dinxminx wrote:

No of course not. Just the Bush-lovers. And the war-supporters. And those who believed in those elusive WMDs.

YOU we like very much.

thanks. I like you too.

Jimoslimos

dr.bollocko wrote:

He said. "Ireland, isnt that, like, part of England or something." I corrected him, but a RA head could have killed the poor guy!

I was asked a similar question a couple of years ago along the lines of "Ireland, what's the weather like over there in the UK this time of year?" However this wasn't asked down in redneck country or somewhere on the west coast but a town few miles north of Boston:eek: Hmm...now that I think of it maybe it a subtle attempt to get a rise out of me and see if the stereotype about the Irish having a temper was true

free2fly

Jimoslimos wrote:

However this wasn't asked down in redneck country or somewhere on the west coast but a town few miles north of Boston:eek:

Just curious...it wasn't Revere by any chance, was it?

Jimoslimos

free2fly wrote:

Just curious...it wasn't Revere by any chance, was it?

Nope, think it was in Kittery? Anyway not too bothered about Americans having poor geography when it comes to Uk/Ireland, sure there's a lot of English who are unable to tell the difference between UK/GB/England.

DublinWriter

Lodgepole wrote:

Friends from New York were genuinely scared to leave their hotel when one of the large anti-war protests was taking place.

Oh boo-bleedin-hoo. How you think 40 million Iraqis feel everyday stepping outside their own front door? They don't have the option of room service, unless they want to order a Cruise missle to go.

Yes, I've heard plenty of Americans criticise Bush, but it reminds me of that old story about Thatcher in the mid 80's. Millions of people voted for her, but very few would publicly admit it.

The question shouldn't be 'Do Americans get poorly treated in Ireland?' but should be 'Do Iraqis get poorly treated in Iraq?'.

wow sierra

Would really recommend Carole Colemans book Alleluia America - An Irish journalist in Bush country.

Its gives a really good look at modern US and the whole Democrat v Republican divide.

I would imagine the war in Iraq was very low down the list of reasons why people voted for Bush - or more to the point against the Democrats. Religion (abortion, stem cell research, gay marriage etc) is a huge issue there. As are issues like environmental legislation, taxation etc.

Back to the original topic - I am afraid I am guilty of slagging off Americans(I dont mean to their faces - I rarely meet any to be honest). I really must remind myself that my little life would be so much worse without Bob Dylan, Brad Pitt,The West Wing, CSI, Lost etc not to mention some of the greatest writers. To be honest I dont reckon Americans get poorly treated in one to one situations - but they must get tired of some of the comments in the media.

Tall Tom

Dragan wrote:

I would say that American's get the same treatment over here as Irish people get over there?

A general lack of understanding and a lot of stereotyping.

I think the Irish folks get treated very well over here.

Tall Tom

bongo85 wrote:

I went to school over in California for about a year and I must say they were a very sound bunch of people. They were very hospitable towards me when I was the new kid in the class and I got along great with everyone in the first week. Very sound bunch of people indeed!!

And anytime I meet an American outside America, I get talkin to them straight away and they're always very chatty and up for the craic!!

Their government is a load of ****e though and most americans would actually agree with this....except for the hill billy-fundamentalist christian-types, of course. They're all stupid !!!! Has anyone ever watched the God Channel??? Bunch of weirdos!!

Thank you!!!! You just summed the majority of us perfectly.

It you ever come to Philly, I'll buy you a pint.

NeMiSiS

HAHA, the God channel is crazy. Better still is the channel that shows.. mini programs about stuff like being gay and evolution. The teacher teaching evolution in the school was actully the devil hahahahahaha.

TK

Tall Tom

DublinWriter wrote:

Oh boo-bleedin-hoo. How you think 40 million Iraqis feel everyday stepping outside their own front door? They don't have the option of room service, unless they want to order a Cruise missle to go.

Yes, I've heard plenty of Americans criticise Bush, but it reminds me of that old story about Thatcher in the mid 80's. Millions of people voted for her, but very few would publicly admit it.

The question shouldn't be 'Do Americans get poorly treated in Ireland?' but should be 'Do Iraqis get poorly treated in Iraq?'.

Do you drive a bus in Dublin by any chance?

smallpaws

Yes, I've heard plenty of Americans criticise Bush, but it reminds me of that old story about Thatcher in the mid 80's. Millions of people voted for her, but very few would publicly admit it.

It's a funny thing, hindsight. I used to see TONS and tons of Bush-Cheney stickers on the backs of cars here, loads of them, and then after the second election and the red vs blue states fighting calmed down and the problems that the useless invasion of Iraq was causing (ex: people seemed shocked that when their kids went to war, they sometimes came back dead) became clear to all but most die-hard-in-denial Bush supporter the stickers began to.....disappear. There were less and less and now if you see one it is so odd and such a standout that you remark to yourself on it like it's you spotted a lump of coal on a white sand beach. I remember watching the Hurricane Katrina fcuk up and thinking , I wonder how many of Bush's supporters in those southern states are still adamant that Bush knows WTF he's doing with anything. These days nobody that voted for him is all that proud of it.

In my own experience, I have been to Ireland a few times and as soon as I speak and my American accent comes out, I get 'the look' then the inevitable "Darlin, WHO voted for Bush in your country?? WHat were they thinking??" and I always give the same response, "Sorry, I voted against him twice, it's beyond my control, Cappy." It never bothers me, it mystifies me too. I just sort of try and grit my teeth and not think much about it if I can, kind of like when you are at the dentists and you try and look out the window or at the wall and not think about how long the unpleasant procedure is taking.

smallpaws

Nope, think it was in Kittery?

It's in Maine; Kittery is just down the road from me.

SingingCherry

Do Americans get mistreated in Ireland? If you asked me 2 years ago when I first moved here I would have said yes. I was really sensitive at that point and even though outward hostility was shown by maybe 1 of 20 people I came in direct contact with (actually talking and engaging with each other in some way), it still felt like everyone around me attacked me when hearing my voice. I once had an older waitress in a cafe in Galway yell at me for Bush, and other people on a Luas in Dublin tell me to go home back to "Bushland". After a while I didn't speak while in public...ever.

Two years later I've gotten over it. Sure, every so often some skanger on the street will hear my voice and say something or someone might ask me about my politics in an aggressive way (to which I politely tell them it's none of their business who I voted for -- democrat or not), but other than that people are generally friendly. It's pretty much a non-issue for me now.

People here do, however, make comments about foreigners around me forgetting that I am one myself. I don't think the Americans are the only ones getting the flack.

Tom65

dr.bollocko wrote:

They illegally elected a president without a majority vote..

That's not really true. The American electoral system allows for a President to be voted in without a majority. It's a flaw (a pretty huge one, too), but it's party of the system, and not illegal.

metrovelvet

^ There's a difference between a popular and electoral majority.

The electoral system was designed to protect states with smaller populations from being squashed out. Its actually a very fair system.

Whats really irritating about Irish people who try to start fights with you about Bush when all you want to do is eat your apple, or cross the street, or make a phone call, is the 90% of the time they know very little about the American political structures or what goes on here and only know what they read in the Guardian,so its incredibly tedious and boring and often decontextualised. Its time wasting garbage.

Oh and the Irish repulation for being bigoted is warranted imo, not just when it comes to Americans but when it comes to pretty much everyone.

SteveS

I tend to avoid political threads, so I'll probably regret this. I voted for Bush twice, so let 'er rip, I have heard it before. You need to consider one huge flaw in the American political syatem. We essentially have only two parties that have any chance of getting into office. Occasionally, a third-party candidate will have a decent showing, but they never come close enough to make a difference.

There are some elections where the parties put forth decent candidates, but what happends when they don't? You have to choose between two idiots. I don't consider myself a Republican or Democrat, so I have to choose a candidate based on issues. I thought Bush's foreign policy left much to be desired, but I wasn't convinced that Kerry (or many of the Democrats) would do any better. I also thought that Kerry was way left and would have preferred a more moderate candidate, like Lieberman or Edwards.

I am also not convinced that Democrats would have done a much better job. When Congress voted to go to war (I know they didn't actually declare war) many Deocrats supported this. Historically, Democrats have gotten involved in other conflicts that have been bad for us and them (Kennedy and Johnson in Vietnam, Clinton in Somalia), so I don't see them as being the saviors that many think they are.

Besides foreign policy, there are dozens of other issues that come up in an election and we are forced to pick what are the most important and vote for the candidate that we think will follow through. Someone once said that we don't always get the government we ask for, but we get the government we deserve. I thik that until we elect decent people, we will continue to be bombarded with bad policies and laws.

Lirange

Yes let's rip 'er.

SteveS wrote:

Someone once said that we don't always get the government we ask for, but we get the government we deserve.

But did the rest of the world deserve him?

The "leader of the free world" is not elected by the world he is purported to lead. We depend on the judgement of the American people. Recently, the judgment of many, if not most, Americans has not been dependable.

I see you are from Michigan. Michigan's electoral votes went to Gore & Kerry. So it's not like you grew up in a part of the country where voting for Republicans is writ in blood. So I'm less inclined to give you a pass on this. Voting for him not once but TWICE! At what point would the incompetence factor override your ideological values? And don't come back with John & Al were as lacking in the competence department ... that's a load of cack.

The excuse of choice always seems to be trotting out the old "Yeh I don't care for him but he was better than the alternative." So that's your reasoning for voting for Bush over John Kerry? You believe he would do worse?! An American football analogy ... that would be like the starting Quarterback throwing six interceptions in the first half and then not bringing in the back-up Quarterback after half time because you were afraid he would turn the ball over. If only the Democrats has nominated a moderate?!!! That is another retread line. Do you consider GWB a moderate? A centrist?

You may be right about the 2-party system. Most Americans seem to be married to their party. Even though it seems so many try to act sound and open-minded when they attempt to talk politics ... I would have voted for so-and-so from the other party! Bull. Too many people use that line to varnish their so called moderate or independent credentials in a political discussion. 90% of the time it's a phony front. You might be among that 10% but I'm not going to concede that ... the odds aren't in your favour.

No I do not blame all Americans for Bush. I blame Americans like you ... Mr. SteveS.

SteveS wrote:

I tend to avoid political threads, so I'll probably regret this.

Speaking of regrets. Now after six years of George W. do you regret any of your votes now in hindsight? Would you vote any differently given the additional past two years of Bush's residency in the White House?

SteveS

Lirange wrote:

Yes let's rip 'er.

But did the rest of the world deserve him?

The "leader of the free world" is not elected by the world he is purported to lead. We depend on the judgement of the American people. Recently, the judgment of many, if not most, Americans has not been dependable.

I see you are from Michigan. Michigan's electoral votes went to Gore & Kerry. So it's not like you grew up in a part of the country where voting for Republicans is writ in blood. So I'm less inclined to give you a pass on this. Voting for him not once but TWICE! At what point would the incompetence factor override your ideological values? And don't come back with John & Al were as lacking in the competence department ... that's a load of cack.

You may be right about the 2-party system. Most Americans seem to be married to their party. Even though it seems so many try to act sound and open-minded when they attempt to talk politics ... I would have voted for so-and-so from the other party! Bull. Too many people use that line to varnish their so called moderate or independent credentials in a political discussion. 90% of the time it's a phony front. You might be among that 10% but I'm not going to concede that ... the odds aren't in your favour.

No I do not blame all Americans for Bush. I blame Americans like you ... Mr. SteveS.

Speaking of regrets. Now after six years of George W. do you regret any of your votes now in hindsight? Would you vote any differently given the additional past two years of Bush's residency in the White House?

You would think I would learn not to do this, but I guess I just can't avoid some arguments.

One point I was trying to raise was that voters are looking at many issues, not just foreign policy. I am not saying that is not important, but just that it is not the only issue.

Gore and Kerry have a terrible record, as far as I am concerned. They have consistently taken positions that I have disagreed with over their careers, so maybe I won't question their competence, but I will certainly question their record.

It little matters where I am from. I certainly wouldn't feel obligated to vote for someone just because everyone else in my area was voting for them.

As for my independent credentials, you'll just have to take my word for them. I am certainly not a moderate, I just find problems with both party platforms and would prefer some candidate from the Libertarian Party if they would ever make a serious effort to appeal to a broad group. I don't think voting for one party over another shows a lack of open mindedness, or are you saying a refusal to vote democrat shows a lack of open mindedness? I wish you could see the ads we are subjected to during the elections. All candidates promise everything to all groups (jobs, social security, funding for education, lowering crime) and blast their opponent. Some how these promises seldom materialize, though to be fair, some are not possible.

I honestly don't know how different things would have been with Kerry in charge, nor do you. I am sure you'd like to believe he would have done exactly what he said he would do, but I just don't have any more faith in him as I do in Bush. I suppose I have some regrets. Like I said, if Edwards had been the candidate or maybe Lieberman, I would have considered them.

[Deleted User]

In general, I think US tourists are treated well in Ireland. But there is a problem in the US. The US population just passed 300 million. How many have passports to travel beyond their boundaries (to Ireland or anyplace else)? Few relative to their numbers! There is a problem of ethnocentrism as a result of their lack of travel and understanding of other cultures. If they would get out more, learn more about other peoples first hand, then perhaps they would not allow King George II and his gang of warhawks to rule their foreign policy as he does?

metrovelvet

SteveS wrote:

You would think I would learn not to do this, but I guess I just can't avoid some arguments.

One point I was trying to raise was that voters are looking at many issues, not just foreign policy. I am not saying that is not important, but just that it is not the only issue.

Gore and Kerry have a terrible record, as far as I am concerned. They have consistently taken positions that I have disagreed with over their careers, so maybe I won't question their competence, but I will certainly question their record.

It little matters where I am from. I certainly wouldn't feel obligated to vote for someone just because everyone else in my area was voting for them.

As for my independent credentials, you'll just have to take my word for them. I am certainly not a moderate, I just find problems with both party platforms and would prefer some candidate from the Libertarian Party if they would ever make a serious effort to appeal to a broad group. I don't think voting for one party over another shows a lack of open mindedness, or are you saying a refusal to vote democrat shows a lack of open mindedness? I wish you could see the ads we are subjected to during the elections. All candidates promise everything to all groups (jobs, social security, funding for education, lowering crime) and blast their opponent. Some how these promises seldom materialize, though to be fair, some are not possible.

I honestly don't know how different things would have been with Kerry in charge, nor do you. I am sure you'd like to believe he would have done exactly what he said he would do, but I just don't have any more faith in him as I do in Bush. I suppose I have some regrets. Like I said, if Edwards had been the candidate or maybe Lieberman, I would have considered them.

You dont need to justify yourself to anyone.

[Deleted User]

^^ yeah but that's their own fault. I've seen loads of Americans blaming the fact the country is so big or whatever on their ignorance. There's no excuse. You don't have to travel to be aware that the US isn't the only country in the world. The internet is available to just about everyone to find out anything. The problem is so many people don't WANT to find out.