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Should 3rd level students work part time

plonk

Feel free to move if this is in the wrong place
Couldnt find an apt place for it.

As the discussion in The thread Major turnoffs was getting a bit heated I decided that this needed its own thread
Do you think a student should make there own way through college or should they scrounge off there parents

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projectmayhem

my parents pay my way (fee's, books, etc.) but a job means being able to buy alcohol, clothes and such

petes

Yes.

But agree with projectmayhem there. I wouldn't expect parents to pay for everything else like booze and the like.

Nevyn

Not everyones parents can afford to keep a 3rd level student, mine certainly could not esp as I was the eldest of 5 so I worked weekends while in college.
It certianly doesn't do any harm as long as you are sensible enough and can take time off for exams.

plonk

And how much money do students get off their parents now. I get 130 a week but i work saturday and friday evening with my father
So thats why I cant work part time

Smellyirishman

Interestingly, one of the first things we were warned about in first years were the hazards of part-time jobs. Failures were linked to part-time jobs and travel distances. While "scrounging" through 2 years of college I have yet to fail an exam, I wonder how many part-timers could claim that and I know a few that worked part-time and it began to eat into thier time in college.

Most of the people I know do not work a part-time job, most are from dublin (going to DCU) and are supported by their parents. I often hear people who are "paying their own way" go on about how they don't have time to do projects, can't attend lectures, can't go out on weekends. That's great, but frankly, if I can avoid it , I am going to.

Let me ask you a question, given a choice, would you pay your way through college with one free night a week or would you use the time spent in that job on college work/fun instead?

I appreciate everything my parents have done for me, I do not have a car, I go out with money that I have earned over the summer (I have only bought a camera this summer, everything else has been put away) but I am grateful that my parents will give me accomodation/food (mostly)/fees and allow me to concentrate on my degree.

Is it the "easier" option, hell yes it is, but that does not mean it is the wrong option. (and I am not suggesting that working part-time is wrong, but given the choice, I think choosing to work would be a mistake)

Also, as a disclaimer; obviously everyones situations are different and crap like that.

Ruu_Old

Thaedydal wrote:

Not everyones parents can afford to keep a 3rd level student, mine certainly could not esp as I was the eldest of 5 so I worked weekends while in college.
It certianly doesn't do any harm as long as you are sensible enough and can take time off for exams.

Agreed. I never felt right expecting my parents to pay for everything. I do know people who suffered badly because they got caught up in their part-time jobs.

skywalker

Smellyirishman wrote:

Will "scrounging" through 2 years of college I have yet to fail an exam, I wonder how many part-timers could claim that and I know a few that worked part-time and it began to eat into thier time in college.

I managed it for 4 years, and know plenty of people who did too. Ive no problem with folks who dont have a pt job through college, its none of my business. But I dont think its as big a barrier as some are making it out to be (some courses notwithstanding of course).

Smellyirishman wrote:

I often hear people who are "paying their own way" about how they don't have time to do projects, can't attend lectures, can't go out on weekends. That's great, but frankly, if I can avoid it , I am going to.

Im confused by that bit. Were they working during the day while missing lectures or did they have lectures in the evening when they had to work? either way a bit of common sense should mean this isnt an issue. I always worked one evening, sometimes 2. and the weekend all through college.

Royale with Cheese

Smellyirishman wrote:

Interestingly, one of the first things we were warned about in first years were the hazards of part-time jobs. Failures were linked to part-time jobs and travel distances. While "scrounging" through 2 years of college I have yet to fail an exam, I wonder how many part-timers could claim that and I know a few that worked part-time and it began to eat into thier time in college.

A fair amount I'd say. Most of my friends including myself had part time jobs through college. It's not a problem unless you make it one.

markpb

skywalker wrote:

Im confused by that bit. Were they working during the day while missing lectures or did they have lectures in the evening when they had to work? either way a bit of common sense should mean this isnt an issue. I always worked one evening, sometimes 2. and the weekend all through college.

Maybe it was just my course but I spent most evenings and quite a few weekends (especially in final year) doing project work and studying. Even if you ignore the lack of time, working effectiely two jobs would tire you out and make you study less effectively.

That said, I acknowledge some people are forced to do it to get through college.

smemon

failing because of a part-time job is just an excuse.

if people would stop drinking, they'd pass exams and have money in the bank.

stipey

Let me ask you a question, given a choice, would you pay your way through college with one free night a week or would you use the time spent in that job on college work/fun instead?

I'd pay my way through college with no nights free a week if necessary - and for 4 years I did.

Why?

Because I was no longer a child and I could. I felt i had no right to expect my parents to pay my way and I owed it to myself to at least try to manage both commitments.

Trying to manage my time efficiently was difficult but I never missed a deadline and course commitments never caused me to miss a shift.... and in the end i came out with a hard earned first.

You can still have the craic - but you need to be responsible to some extent, get your priorities straight and then be mature enough to know when to knuckle down and when to let lose.

Ultimately I think it allowed me to develop additional qualities that have been very valuable to me in my professional life.

(Going to stop now as I'm soundling like an interview...

Q. And what do you think are your main strengths Mr. Stipey.

A. Well I'm good under pressure, I'm an excellent team player and i make a nice cup of tea)

Nalz

if need be, students should work parttime.

however, if students were doing an all year round project, struggling with a certain subject or in a fnal year...they really should reconsider. touchy subject because the financial challanges that exist to every student

yyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh - i love work

Mrs_Doyle

I originally posted this in 'the Major Turn Off ' thread, but I ma going to delete it from there, and post it here, if that us ok with the mods - so as not to take the thread off topic.

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

There are plenty of people who work full time and take evening courses - My apologies if you find it difficult to chew gum and walk and the same time - it is quite possible to do both, if you ask around you will find plenty of people who have done it.

There's no way on earth I could have had a part-time job while doing the course I did. Not a hope. Well maybe I could have done it and done substantially less well in University but I doubt that's what my parents would have wanted.

Again, maybe you found it difficult to do both, not everyone had the option to sit back and allow their parents to put them through college - and even some of those who did have the option, preferred to foot the bill themselves.

Did you buy your leaving cert books? Sure you could have worked then and bought them yourself. Why let your parents do that.

You assume that you know me. I started working at 14 to put myself through drama school. From the day I started working I funded my own education, to the best of my ability.
I paid my own college fees and bought my own college books.
I would never have expected my parents to pay for it if it was possible for me to pay for it myself.

My parents could comfortably afford to support me through University and I'm grateful and lucky. Not everybody has that opportunity afforded to them but there's nothing wrong with it.

Well Bully for you, but I found it to be a character building exercise, if nothing else.

They are much much happier for me to have done well in college than the extra money would have made them.

You seem to believe that it is a choice between paying your own way, and doing well.
I paid my own way and have 2 higher national diploma's and a BA hons Degree.

greenkittie

I know some people on work placement who are working full 9-5 days then going to uni in the evening for their final year. One of them also has a part time job working in a restaurant at the weekend. All these people are chinese, possibly they just have a stronger work ethic or possibly they are crazy.
Personally i could only just about handle uni when i was there. My parents paid for my fees and that was it, everything else came from the old student loan. Don't know if you guys get student loans in ireland though like we do in the uk.

markpb

smemon wrote:

failing because of a part-time job is just an excuse. if people would stop drinking, they'd pass exams and have money in the bank.

I don't think thats a very fair way of looking at it. Going to college (fees, books, printing), living away from home (rent, bills, transport, buying household things) cost a lot of money even if you never socialise.

Some people are forced to take a job to get themselves through college, it's not a matter of beer money.

Yes it's possible to mix a job and college but its a risk and even apart from that, you're missing out on a lot of what college has to offer. If all you get from 3-5 years in college is a degree and a job, you've missed out IMHO.

connundrum

Sigh.

I nearly think I've had enough of this.

Basically - 3rd level students who need to work, should work. 3rd level students who don't need to work (or don't want to work) shouldn't work.

Simple as.

If you didn't work through college and reckon you had it tough, then you will have to deal with people like me who did. And I will call you a pansy tossbag.

Simple as.

There is no comparison. Either you worked 20-30 hours per week more than the next person or you didn't. I know people that worked a part time job whilst studying for a degree and they have come out with 1st's and 2.1 degrees, while I know people that haven't worked in 3 years who have come out with 2.2 and pass degrees. There is no better way!!

But as an employer, I will always say that I would take the person who has worked through college and come out with a pass degree than a person who hasn't worked in 3 years and come out with a 1st degree. You see which category you fall into.

Smellyirishman

stipey wrote:

I'd pay my way through college with no nights free a week if necessary - and for 4 years I did.

Why?

Because I was no longer a child and I could. I felt i had no right to expect my parents to pay my way and I owed it to myself to at least try to manage both commitments.

Key word in the first sentence being "necessary".

I don't expect my parents to pay for things, but I am grateful to them for partially taking away that burden for now. Out of interest, what age were you when you went to college/finished?

Ultimately, there is no right or wrong in this debate and it is a situational thing that depends on a number of things including family finance,course, personal opinion etc...

markpb

connundrum wrote:

But as an employer, I will always say that I would take the person who has worked through college and come out with a pass degree than a person who hasn't worked in 3 years and come out with a 1st degree. You see which category you fall into.

Do you think that viewpoint is common among employers? From looking at most jobs adverts, I'd say anyone with a pass degree would find it hard to get their CV looked at. In fact, knowing people who did get a pass degree, it's very hard to get in the door (IT industry at least). Relevant work experience helps a lot but working in Londis to pay your rent is useless.

Why do you think a person who's worked in a shop, chipper, etc and barely scraped through their exams would be a better employee than the person who proved they have at least a technical level of knowledge in their course?

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

You seem to believe that it is a choice between paying your own way, and doing well. I paid my own way and have 2 higher national diploma's and a BA hons Degree.

It's not an automatic assumption but for some people and some courses, the workload will be too much to do both. Of course some people can do both but you won't know until you've passed/failed your exams whether you were capable of it. And like I said earlier, there is a lot more to college than the academic qualification you come out with.

greenkittie

In response to people working at age 14... respect to them but also... dear god, child abuse! At 14 you should be carefree and enjoying childhood. My parents would never have let me work at that age.

ThrownAway

If their course is under say 17 hours YES

If their course is 17 plus NO

Everyone should be in college/work for the amount of a full- time job.
Because COLLEGE IS WORK.

Most courses are called full-time but they're not really.

I can't believe some people think college students [such as medical students ect.] should have part-time jobs. THEY ALREADY HAVE A FULL-TIME JOB. Less stress = better results in MOST cases. Except for the odd few no-one cares about.

That's all I need to say on the matter :cool:

connundrum

Smellyirishman wrote:

Out of interest, what age were you when you went to college/finished?

Does it matter? I know people who supported themselves in college from the age of 17 - 21/22. If you wish to continue with an argument of 'I was too young to support myself' then you will ultimately be shot down as there will always be someone who has had it harder than you.

There is no right or wrong argument, but to maintain that you are right will obviously see you in a bad place with the rest of the posters.

Sp@rtacus

I seem to have posted my feeble contribution to this debate in the other thread like the noob toolbar that I am <hangs head in shame> Anyway, I've been Kent Brockman, here's my two cents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveirl
So how come you let the tax payer pay it then. By your logic I should have a part-time job in addition to my full-time job. Sure that's only logical then.

your comment certainly isnt logical anyway. There is a difference between a just and socially equitable economy providing the opportunity of education to all its citizens - and its future tax payers - and a fit and able young guy working 15 hours a week in Dunnes to make a few quid for himself instead of having it stuck in your mit by your folks FFS.

Anyway, this is off-topic so I digress. Actually before I do, I might also add that I respect and appreciate the sentiments you expressed that your folks could afford it and were happy to do it, but my perspective on it is just different I suppose. My folks couldn’t afford that approach and I was loathe to be an "overhead" while my mum worked two jobs and reared 4 kids. I "acquired" a fake birth cert at 14 and worked part time from 2nd yr at school right through my leaving cert and degree from which I graduated with a first. I got a sports scholarship to university which made things manageable, but I still needed to work to get cash for living costs etc. but the beauty of it all for me is I wouldnt change a thing. While I now work in a very well paying job, I still draw on experience and lessons learned packing shelves at 14 and that "education" has served me as well if not more so than my formal one imo.
Anyway, enough of that...

Other turn-offs
> Sanctimonious off topic posters (sorry

)

stipey

Key word in the first sentence being "necessary".

To be honest, working wasn't a necessity for me. My parents were more than willing to cover the costs for me - but I didn't feel they should have to and I certainly didn't feel I had any right to let them.

I think that no matter who you are or how much you earn you will ever be able to adequately repay your parents for everything they do for you as a child. From obvious things like expenditure to the less tangible sacrafices. That was just my way of making a start on the (bertie-type) "debt".

I'm not saying ALL students SHOULD work - but if your financial situation requires it then needs must. What really annoys me though is hearing students saying "you can't expect me to work, I'm a student" (especially when they are arts students and have a total of 22 minutes classes a week). As somebody said it all comes down to building a good work ethic and realising that you have become an adult and can't expect everything in life to be easy.

For what its worth I went to uni straight after doing the leaving - so I guess it was from about the age of 17 to 21.... and I was studying Computer Applications at DCU which is a very time intensive course.

Mrs_Doyle

greenkittie wrote:

In response to people working at age 14... respect to them but also... dear god, child abuse! At 14 you should be carefree and enjoying childhood. My parents would never have let me work at that age.

Ok, I can see where you are coming from, it does sound very young - and to defend my parents, they never ever suggested I get out and earn a wage at such a young age - I WANTED TO DO IT.

My little sister had just been born, and in my little head I thought, 'Well, they are going to be strapped for cash now, so I doubt if they can afford for Drama lessons." So I got a little job in a newsagents, and I pad for it myself.

As soon as I started earning money, and paying my own way, I liked the feel of it - and I can honestly say I have never been out of a job since.

I worked throught school, and college, and I think the longest gap between jobs was perhaps 2 weeks or so - when a Christmas contract expired, and it took a few weeks to get my next job.

If I had asked my parents to pay my college fees, they would have done it - but why would I ask them, when I was clearly capable of doing it by myself.

I was in no way hard done by, I am in no way bitter - I worked because I liked the independence it gave me - and I liked knowing that It wasn't costing my parents a fortune to educate me.

connundrum

markpb wrote:

Why do you think a person who's worked in a shop, chipper, etc and barely scraped through their exams would be a better employee than the person who proved they have at least a technical level of knowledge in their course?

You've quoted IT as your industry of expertise. I'll be honest and say that I've never had to employ or interview anyone for an IT position - and I would appreciate that if you were to take up a position in IT then you would be expected to know your stuff (granted).

In my industry I would expect to have to train most of my prospective employees, and with that in mind what I would be looking for is a good work ethic, ambition and a mind for the future. Now if someone has put themselves through 4 years of college by themsleves (unaided by parents and/or grants) I would have respect for that in itself. And I will give them more time than most..

Are you saying that I shouldn't?

markpb

I don't think anyone should have to work to put themselves through college. There are people whos family situation means they have to and I think the state has let them down.

connundrum wrote:

In my industry I would expect to have to train most of my prospective employees, and with that in mind what I would be looking for is a good work ethic, ambition and a mind for the future. Now if someone has put themselves through 4 years of college by themsleves (unaided by parents and/or grants) I would have respect for that in itself. And I will give them more time than most..

Are you saying that I shouldn't?

As you said, it depends on the job they're applying for. In my industry, you are expected to know the groundwork and learn the specifics while you work. If someone came to me with a mediocre degree because they had worked through college, I wouldn't be overly keen on hiring them.

On the other hand, you seem to be dismissing people who don't work though college as lazy. That's not always true and you could be dismissing a very hard worker on no grounds at all. Perhaps they were very interested in their course and wanted to do well in it, rather than working a totally unrelated job and having a little extra money to spend.

CiaranC

I worked 20-30 hours a week, every week, and 40 hours a week all summer and every period off through college. My parents let me live rent free and fed me for the duration.

Luckily, I went to an IT, so most people were as poor as me. Cant say I wasnt bitter about all the southside nerks in my mates colleges who had it 'soo tough loike'. Bastards.

GrumPy

I have a nice system. I goto college from monday-thursday, and my parents cover travel fees, and books for college etc...

But I always have my own money in my pocket, cause I work sat/sun. BUT it shouldn't effect my work in college, cause I have fridays off.

I'd never expect my parents to fund my alcohol/clothes/various other must have things. They pay for my education, I pay for anything else.

[Deleted User]

But Mrs Doyle, were you paying to live away from home? If not, you hardly had a lot to pay for did you? Drama lessons weren't essential - sure I had to pay for that stuff as well when I was in school. It's one thing paying for your clothes, bus, lunch etc - completely different thing paying for rent, food, electricity, basically everything. If you did pay for all that - how? I have a student loan AND I usually work giving English classes because it's flexible with my course, and I still rely on my parents to help with the rent. I literally couldn't go to college at all if I were paying for everything myself. No part time job would cover all the costs.

And it's nonsense that employers prefer people to have worked through college - they are more interested in the class of degree, and where you went to do it. I don't consider working in Londis in the evening to be character building to be honest - especially if you're still living at home with mammy. Surely it's more important to actually focus on your degree and learn something instead of scraping by? And I don't know anyone who doesn't work in the summer - I usually work full time in a foreign country, I've been a hotel maid and a waitress - surely living abroad and earning a pittance doing an awful job in another language is more character building than working a few hours after class in a shop?

Scraggs

It depends on the course and the student imo.

Last year I worked average 26hrs pw in my hometown as well as studying 17hrs a week in UCD. I have to say I loved every minute of working even though it is not an area I plan to have a future career in. While it was hard going at times it paid off, I earned a promotion and I have gotten some really great practical management and life experience I otherwise wouldn't have gotten had I not put in the hours ... I would almost go as far as to say superior to what I have learned [so far] in uni.

Working those kind of hours did however affect my academic and social life. I managed to get A's and B's in the majority of my work but ended up having to repeat 3 papers during the summer. I have to say I really learned my lesson and I have gotten my priorities in order... I'm no longer such a careerist [:p lol] and I'm paying more attention to my studies and have found a balance between work [college] and play [which includes work for me].

If the student can find a balance between their studies and work then they should but if it is hindering their academic work then no... this being the most important thing imo.

Of course then theres the whole ''free'' fees and grants situation and whether the student can afford the cost of college life which is a whole other kettle of fish...