julep wrote: probably, but maybe the OP wanted this in AH, where we provide our own unique replies and then get the thread locked. over to you, darkman2. do you want this here? really? do you?
darkman2 wrote: hmmmm I think I want it here: Politics: Well its not overly political Humanities: hmmmmm full of bleeding hearts anyway News/Media: suppose but not the most populated of forums AH: I want the views of the average Joe on the street (without the muppetry of course):D Mike, like I say the fact they where black is just an observation. Feel free to criticise though...........
julep wrote: ok. fair enough. i will ask that people obey the charter though. this is quite topical and i would like to see some partially thought out replies. don't come crying to me if i ban you for blatant racism and don't go crying in feedback either because i have already warned you. (that's not directed at the OP. it's a general statement to all who post here). EDIT: could someone copy and paste the article in question, please. it's subscription and i can't remember my password and i'm too lazy to look for it. thanks.
casanova_kid wrote: I think Irish people should have preference for school places if that's what the topic is about first. Look after your own. The preferable idea would be to plan ahead for this influx of immigrants and try to cater for every one. But point 1 should come before point 2.
julep wrote: did you ever read a post and think "jesus christ, you're gonna be slaughtered for saying that"?
Irish Independent: Would we prefer 250,000 Polish migrants, or Pakistanis instead? KEVIN MYERS THE most important thing to remember is that if you ignore a problem, it will always go away. For example, the British ignored the problem of immigration for decades, because a) the left-liberals said it was racist to discuss the issue, and b) immigration would never present a problem. And they were right, for one day the problem simply vanished. Wait a minute. That’s not quite what happened, is it? For one-quarter of British Muslims in certain circumstances approve of suicide bombings. Hundreds of thousands of people born in Britain have little or no loyalty to the land of their birth and identify instead with international Islam. English cricketers of Pakistani origin are viciously barracked in a weird inverse-racism by their fellow Anglo-Pakistanis because they’re playing for England. Islamic terrorist conspiracies have cost scores of lives and might have cost thousands. But we’re not going to talk about it now because a) it is racist to talk about such things, and b) immigration will never present a problem in Ireland. Right? Regular readers will be aware I have written often on this topic. I do so because if we get this wrong now, we get it wrong for ever < as the British, the Dutch, the French, the Danes have discovered. And that’s today. What their countries will be like in half a century’s time is a matter of speculation. Not pleasant, is what I’d guess. The mass movement of workers from eastern Europe is quite different, and the resulting problems largely short-term. However, assimilating these people, and their children, will take time and effort. How did we prepare for this phenomenon? Well, we did the usual Irish thing of displaying “feelings” to win an argument. “Efforts have been to foment fears migrants from the made that new member states could flock to Ireland,” said Brian Cowen, usually a sensible chap, but back in 2002 he was talking out of his bottom. “This is not only unpleasant but plainly wrong.” Unpleasant, eh? Willie O’Dea was using his righteous emotions when he uttered these imperishable words: “The second myth is that the Nice Treaty will mean mass immigration from the new EU member countries. This is probably the most odious of the myths propagated by some in the ‘No’ campaign.” Denouncing the truth as unpleasant and odious: the great Irish intellectual tradition. Another great forecaster was Europe-minister Dick Roche. “No reason to believe . . . that large numbers of workers will wish to come.” (July 2002). “The same rules are going to apply to all 15 states. There is no evidence to suggest that the people of the Czech Republic or Poland are less anxious to stay in their home as we are.” (September 2002). Wrong, wrong, wrong. The greatest genius at immigration-forecasting was Proinsias De Rossa, who might have been expected to know something of Eastern European countries, given that he was once such a fan. However, this Michael Fish of the former Styx proved to be as wrong about immigration as the BBC weather forecaster was about hurricanes. “It is a deliberate misrepresentation to suggest that tens of thousands will suddenly descend en masse on Ireland . . . The expected trickle of immigration will on balance benefit the Irish economy. I estimate that fewer than 2000 will choose our distant shores each year.” (August 2002). Two thousand, eh? Well, this Stygian Cerberus was as idiotic about that as he once was about the glories of the Marxist state. But, of course, he was wrong on the right bien-pensant side, so his grotesque forecasts are quietly forgotten in the censorious salons of the politically correct. Of course, we have benefited from immigration. But there have to be limits both to the numbers and the type. Ask yourself the big P question: “Do I want 250,000 Poles coming to Ireland, or 250,000 Pakistanis?” A TD might wonder that privately, with the door locked < but would he or she dare ask it in public? Yet the terror of what Islam can mutate into is now rife across Europe. Making a bawdy joke on television about the Virgin Mary shopping in Anne Summers or Jesus visiting a brothel might properly earn you stern denunciations; but make a mildly irreverent remark about Mohammed and you literally could have your throat cut, not in Baghdad or Islamabad, but in Birmingham or Berlin. (Note how carefully I have phrased the comparison: I want to live). This is crazy. Islam is now effectively deciding the cultural agenda in every country across Europe, simply because some Muslims feel entitled to murder people who offend their religious feelings. The appalling lesson seems to be that wherever you have a sizeable Muslim population, you will have at least the threat of religious terrorism. So should we restrict Muslim immigration to Ireland? ask not as a proposal, but as a topic for debate. After all, nonMuslim immigrants do not get full legal and residential rights in Saudi, Pakistan or indeed any Muslim country. Moreover, no assimilation of Islamic mass immigration has ever occurred in any society anywhere. Not India, not Africa, not Indonesia, not Holland, not Britain. But would it be too odious or unpleasant to discuss this also?
Flukey wrote: Casanova, many of those kids were born and bred here, so they are Irish. So should we exclude all the English, American, Australian, Canadian etc. kids, or kids of Irish parents that were born abroad? The schools are there for all the people. The preference should be for anyone that wants a place. That is the only criteria that matters. But we know all that, so lets not get into a debate about that aspect of it. The real problem is that there are not enough school places for those that want them. That is the one and only issue. We need more schools. They are building thousands of houses but not providing the services to support them. That can't be blamed on the people who live there or where they came from. The answer is to provide the school places, so that everyone that wants one can go. Get on to the minister for education.
darkman2 wrote: Myers point was that no country in the world has ever successfully assimilated minority groups into society
Exit wrote: And if they feel that Ireland is that place (though God knows why) then fair ****s to them!
Flukey wrote: Sgt. Politeness, the fact of the matter is that one of the reasons for the growth in the economy is the amount of new people coming in. Back in the 70s and 80s, no one was coming in and everyone was leaving. We had 20% unemployment then. The economy was bad and getting worse then.
